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America's Deficit Doomsday

Posted on 03/10/2010 10:59:20 AM PST by Zanton

The current American federal deficit (as of March 2010) is about $30,000 per person -- including children, the sick, crippled, homeless, and retired. For people who work, the deficit amounts to $60,000 each.

Government debt grew by a sickening $5,000 per head last year (2009). And it's scheduled to grow by slightly more this year (2010). The current national debt ceiling is 14.3 trillion dollars, or one full year of America's income.

Now this is an evil almost beyond compare. Whatever government "investments" this amount represents, and however many irresponsible Big Businesses were recently rescued by it, and however much the Big Government-destroyed economy has just been "bailed out" and "stimulated," it isn't worth it. Even with all the wonderous "help" engendered by this fatuous and depraved Keynsian nightmare, it isn't worth it.

The reality is, this spend-like-a-drunken-sailor, Big Brother debacle is ravaging and savaging our whole country. It's mercilessly trashing our economy and societal foundations. It's obliterating the future.

And the people responsible for this boondoggle and indescribable horror are the Democratic and Republican parties. So too the nitwit, dirtbag, General Public which absurdly supports them.

Maybe it's time we ban both political groups. Recognize them for the criminal conspiracies and totalitarian organizations that they truly are.

Maybe it's time for us to arrest all Democrats and Republicans for treason. Anyone who votes for them could be stripped of their citizenship, and forcibly deported to Zimbabwe or North Korea.

Americans need to realize, once and for all, that Democratic- and Republican-style welfare statism is not compatible with libery, prosperity, and Individual happiness -- nor the US Constitution and American Dream!

(note: The above is satire. But just barely.)


TOPICS: General Discussion; Issues
KEYWORDS: debt; deficit; editorial; freedom; libertarian

1 posted on 03/10/2010 10:59:21 AM PST by Zanton
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To: Zanton

We have finally reached the near verticle leg of a hyperbolic curve. It is gonna get real ugly, real fast.


2 posted on 03/10/2010 11:01:59 AM PST by RobRoy (The US today: Revelation 18:4)
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To: Zanton

Well, since there are a lot of people, children and the poor, who do not even have a net worth of $30,000, and that 40% of the country’s adult population pays taxes for the other 60%, that means that the REAL deficit per person (persons who would actually have to pay it) is much, much higher.


3 posted on 03/10/2010 11:03:05 AM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: Zanton

Sigh. More Romney bashing. Where is he claiming that he “NEVER” supported it, and what is the specific language he uses? Ronald Reagan also changed his position.


4 posted on 03/10/2010 11:04:52 AM PST by MrChips (MrChips)
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To: RobRoy
We have finally reached the near verticle leg of a hyperbolic curve. It is gonna get real ugly, real fast.

I agree! Places like New York (where I live), California, Greece, Portugal -- and even the whole United States as led by Obama, Pelosi, and Reed -- are fast becoming ungovernable! :-(

5 posted on 03/10/2010 11:11:58 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: Zanton

Water, food, shelter, security and transportation. Don’t take these things for granted. Plan and prepare.


6 posted on 03/10/2010 11:16:29 AM PST by ChinaThreat (3)
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To: MrChips
Well, since there are a lot of people, children and the poor, who do not even have a net worth of $30,000, and that 40% of the country’s adult population pays taxes for the other 60%, that means that the REAL deficit per person (persons who would actually have to pay it) is much, much higher.

Good point. And the "wealthy" and productive people -- which carry practically the whole load for our evil and failed welfare state -- can fairly easily move to a different state or country. They're like Atlas carrying the world on their shoulders! So we need to thank them, throw some decent respect their way, and stop trying to economically rape them.

7 posted on 03/10/2010 11:19:15 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: ChinaThreat
Water, food, shelter, security and transportation. Don’t take these things for granted. Plan and prepare.

Sadly -- I think you're right. Prudence and wisdom demands we prepare for a kind of Atlas Shrugged-type Doomsday. :-(

8 posted on 03/10/2010 11:22:12 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: Zanton

The satire was unnecessary, but the solution to the problem may be straightforward. That the US default on its national debt.

It actually may cause *less* pain in the long run to do so, then to keep up the pretense that it could be repaid, much less than it will be repaid.

Argentina has defaulted on its debt four times, and while it did create problems, in a way it was reassuring, because it signaled that their government was moving in the direction of reality, away from fantasy.

This reality means that government largesse programs, like Social Security, Medicare (and Obamacare), and Medicaid, would be effectively over. They are by far the majority of the federal budget.

But in addition, it would force the US government to have a balanced budget, each and every year, for many years, because it could no longer borrow money. This means that revenues could only be as great as taxes.

Economically, it could do America wonders, because we could no longer pay for expensive imports of oil and consumer products made by other nations. Since we would still want oil and such products, we would have to rebuild our industries to provide and make them.

Ironically, even those nations from whom the US defaulted would not terribly suffer, because most of their investment in US Treasury Bonds were made with profits of selling to us, not from their core wealth.

But of course the US would never default on its debt willingly, so likely it will be the culmination of a national and international depression.

Importantly, default has been done before in the US. Several States defaulted on bonds they had unwisely issued, and this, as well as other factors, resulted in “The Panic of 1837”. And in 1895, the US itself came close to default, already two years into a different depression, “The Panic of 1893”.

So it is a measured weighing of the advantages vs. the disadvantages of default, pushed by a severe economic collapse, that will be the final straw. And hopefully as a nation we will emerge wiser for it. But judging from our history, probably not.


9 posted on 03/10/2010 11:25:57 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Zanton

I agree. Unfortunately, the moochers and the looters are in charge and have been for several decades. The Jim Taggart’s and Wesley Mouches have already done their damage. To my knowledge, there is no Gault’s Gulch, unless you know any differently :-)


10 posted on 03/10/2010 11:28:23 AM PST by ChinaThreat (3)
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To: Zanton

It’s inevitable.
There are two kinds of voters.
One votes demanding government give them more (looters and moochers)
The other votes demanding the government allows them keep more (productive)

There is a disconnect in progressives circles as to what level of civil disobedience the productive will engage in.


11 posted on 03/10/2010 11:35:08 AM PST by griswold3 (You think health care is expensive now? Just wait till it's FREE!)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

That the US default on its national debt.

Exactly. The progressives have so destroyed the core beliefs that built this great nation. I feel this is no longer the same country I grew up in. If they believe that they can inflame ‘patriotism’ to encourage the productive to work harder and longer for less, they are sadly mistaken.
My life is my own.


12 posted on 03/10/2010 11:39:38 AM PST by griswold3 (You think health care is expensive now? Just wait till it's FREE!)
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To: ChinaThreat
I agree. Unfortunately, the moochers and the looters are in charge and have been for several decades. The Jim Taggart’s and Wesley Mouches have already done their damage. To my knowledge, there is no Gault’s Gulch, unless you know any differently :-)

Unfortunately, I don't know any differently. I was hoping you did! :-)

But maybe I should just look harder -- or build one myself. I know multi-millionaire Victor Neiderhoffer, and billionaire David Koch lives right in my city. Others sympathetic to Objectivism and libertarianism live in and near New York City too. Maybe I need to get to work convincing them to create a semi-decent Galt's Gulch.

For the record, I'd LOVE to live in a free and laissez-faire style country, however tiny! :-)

13 posted on 03/10/2010 11:40:45 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
Your proposed solution of deliberate default is fascinating -- but probably wouldn't work (I imagine!). I think the US would go into a horrific Depression for maybe 3 or 5 years.

The better answer (in my view) is simple: laissez-faire capitalism INSTANTLY. Death to the evil hateful welfare state, including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, govt' schools and roads, etc. Also -- SELL all that US-owned property to the highest bidder as-is.

But your reply was GREAT, Yefragetuwrabrumuy, and food for thought! :-)

14 posted on 03/10/2010 11:49:05 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: griswold3
It’s inevitable. There are two kinds of voters. One votes demanding government give them more (looters and moochers). The other votes demanding the government allows them keep more (productive). There is a disconnect in progressives circles as to what level of civil disobedience the productive will engage in.

Intellectually, people need to see beyond the current asinine political paradigm of Right and Left, or conservatism and progressivism. BOTH need to be rejected in favor of updated classical liberalism, libertarianism, or laissez-faire capitalism (or whatever you want to call it).

Gov't should be confined almost completely to the police and military (and their courts and jails). Gov't needs to cost maybe 2% of GDP at the most!

15 posted on 03/10/2010 11:57:02 AM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: Zanton

Gov’t needs to cost maybe 2% of GDP at the most!

That 2% would be nice!
Historically, the govt gets 20% of GDP. (Hauser’s Law) Even if the income tax rates go to 70% or even 90%, the govt has never collected more than 20%. Govt would need to invoke ‘martial law’ (according to Ray Moley,FDR brain trust) to confiscate more than that.


16 posted on 03/10/2010 12:06:35 PM PST by griswold3 (You think health care is expensive now? Just wait till it's FREE!)
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To: Zanton

“We have met the enemy and he is us.”


17 posted on 03/10/2010 12:07:24 PM PST by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: griswold3

Thanks for acquainting me with Hauser’s Law. :-) I have to check this out. But 2% or so of GNP for gov’t expediture IS realistic — and in line with US gov’t spending in the late 1700s and early 1800s.


18 posted on 03/10/2010 12:14:57 PM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: MrChips
Well, since there are a lot of people, children and the poor, who do not even have a net worth of $30,000, and that 40% of the country’s adult population pays taxes for the other 60%, that means that the REAL deficit per person (persons who would actually have to pay it) is much, much higher.

According to the IRS websight, there were just under 100 million Americans who had a tax liability last year. That makes the math pretty easy. A 12.5 Trillion dollar deficit works out to $125,000 for each taxpayer.

Of course we could just let the rich pay for it. According to Ask.com, about 4% of the US population earns over $250,000 a year. If you figure a population of 300 million, thats $1,041,666 for each of the rich. I guess you would have to subtract rich politicians from that figure because it appears that most of them don't pay their share of taxes.

Most of the money that goes toward the deficit is being sent out of the country and will actually hurt our economy. When we pay the bills it will reduce the net household income and cause the economy to get worse. That will increase unemployment, which will reduce the number of taxpayers and increase the number of people collecting public assistance. That means we'll need to raise taxes even more on the those who are still working. That will make the economy worse...

19 posted on 03/10/2010 12:20:15 PM PST by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: mbynack
“We have met the enemy and he is us.”

This is true -- but the situation is FAR from hopeless. All our problems today stem from simple political ignorance. People today genuinely believe in the welfare state -- and reject capitalism and libertarianism. They truly think it's GOOD to have the gov't criminalize drugs and prostitution, and to have gov't schools and roads, and to force us all to participate in Social Security and Medicare, etc. People today think this evil, idiotic Big Daddy rubbish is both morally and practically GOOD.

Thus, advocates for socio-economic freedom -- like me -- need to GET TO WORK and become more intellectually persuasive! After all, all the truth and virtue and pragmatic workability is on MY side!

20 posted on 03/10/2010 12:23:24 PM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: mbynack

and I thought I was a lonely nerd....

thank you..someone else who does the math with reality in mind...


21 posted on 03/10/2010 12:23:35 PM PST by eeevil conservative (GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH....Archimedes)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
yefragetuwrabrumuy,

Good response. I think that we're getting to the point where foreign investors aren't going to be buying our debt. If they do, it will be at a much higher interest rate. We'll be like a couple making $40,000 who has $100,000 in credit card debt. It will take us a hundred years to pay it off.

22 posted on 03/10/2010 12:27:03 PM PST by mbynack (Retired USAF SMSgt)
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To: mbynack
...When we pay the bills it will reduce the net household income and cause the economy to get worse. That will increase unemployment, which will reduce the number of taxpayers and increase the number of people collecting public assistance. That means we'll need to raise taxes even more on the those who are still working. That will make the economy worse...:

This is the vicious circle of socialism and welfare statism. But we can easily create a VIRTUOUS circle of capitalism and freedom -- if only we will.

23 posted on 03/10/2010 12:28:12 PM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: eeevil conservative
Why are you so darn eeeeeeeeevil? ;-)

Just kidding. I've actually heard and enjoyed your radio show on BlogTalkRadio! :-)

24 posted on 03/10/2010 12:30:30 PM PST by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
I have brought this up several times to friends of mine. Imagine a scenario where just prior to the 2012 election, President Obama claimed that because of “evil” financial tactics of China, he was declaring all our debt to China as null and void. All of the paper that they have would be immediately worthless, and all contracts wherein they “own” a property in the U.S. would be canceled. What would the American people think? Would they not rally around the President after such an action?
25 posted on 03/10/2010 12:30:51 PM PST by wbarmy (Hard core, extremist, and right-wing is a little too mild for my tastes.)
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To: Zanton
The U.S. would have a real bad time for a few years, guess how bad it would be for countries like Japan or China who depend massively on our buying power.
26 posted on 03/10/2010 12:33:08 PM PST by wbarmy (Hard core, extremist, and right-wing is a little too mild for my tastes.)
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To: MrChips

I’m not a great fan of Romney. For reasons that don’t need to be debated on this string. But that clip doesnt really tear him down. He comes off very well in defining his position. Not Pro-life Not Pro-Choice. A defender of the state law as it existed then. Still wont support him in the primaries. But if he is the nominee I’ll fight like hell for him.


27 posted on 03/10/2010 1:37:47 PM PST by greybull (Sharpening my pitchfork. Bring home dem congress critters for Easter supper.)
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To: wbarmy

Andrew Jackson faced a similar situation, so he dropped the bomb, as it were, in two ways, just before leaving office.

The first was to not renew the charter of the 2nd National Bank of America, as the bank the government did business with, which was be like today canceling the charters of Bank of America and Welles Fargo at the same time.

The second was called the “specie circular”, that declared that all money, public and private, in the US, had to be backed with silver and gold. This threw hundreds of small banks out of business, and made all their money worthless, overnight.

And then the States canceled their enormous bond issues. Put it all together, and it created the Panic of 1837, which was the worst depression in US history until the Great Depression.

Since Jackson did this right when leaving office, his successor, Martin Van Buren, was blamed for it all.

Likely Obama would try the same stunt, if he could make it to 2012 before the economy collapsed.


28 posted on 03/10/2010 3:03:24 PM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Zanton

I watched the head of the Afl-Cio speak the other day at a function with other guest speakers, all who spoke of the economy. He dragged his points out and then listed his solutions....but I nearly fell of my chair when he said...” We have to borrow and then spend and spend”...listing then on infrastructure, education etc.


29 posted on 03/21/2010 4:56:13 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Labor unions are evil — just like business cartels. Job One of the bloated American government — if we want to let the economy to grow — is to CUT spending.


30 posted on 03/21/2010 11:31:21 AM PDT by Zanton (a polite & open-minded, but fierce, advocate of classical liberalism & libertarianism)
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