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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers the USS Forrestal Fire (7/29/1967) - Oct 14th, 2003
Naval Aviation News ^ | October 1967 | Senior Chief Journalist John D. Burlage

Posted on 10/14/2003 12:00:21 AM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
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The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

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The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

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The Forrestal Fire


The day was a typical one for the 5,000 officers and enlisted men of the attack aircraft carrier USS Forrestal as the huge, 80,000-ton ship cut a wake through the calm waters of the Gulf of Tonkin. It was as typical as it could be, that is, for men at war. And the men of Forrestal were definitely in combat. For the first time since their ship was commissioned in October 1955, they had been launching aircraft from her flight deck on strikes against an enemy whose coastline was only a few miles over the horizon.

The ship in which these men served was the first U.S. carrier built from the keel up with the angled deck that enables aircraft to be launched and recovered simultaneously. For four days, the planes of Attack Carrier Air Wing 17 had been launched on, and recovered from, about 150 missions against targets in North Vietnam. On the ship's four-acre flight deck, her crewmen went about the business at hand, the business of accomplishing the second launch of the fifth day in combat.



Overhead, the hot, tropical sun beat down from a clear sky.

It was just about 10:50 a.m. (local time), July 29, 1967.

The launch that was scheduled for a short time later was never made.

This is the story of the brave men of USS Forrestal.

It is not a story about just a few individuals. Or ten. Or twenty. Or fifty. It is the story of hundreds of officers and enlisted men who were molded by disaster into a single cohesive force determined to accomplish one mission: Save their ship and their shipmates.

It is the story of the acts of heroism they performed-acts so commonplace, accomplished with such startling regularity, that it will be impossible to chronicle all of them. It will be impossible for a very simple reason:All of them will never be known.


This is what is believed to be the last photo taken of the Forrestal on the morning of July 29, 1967


Lt. Cmdr. Robert "Bo" Browning one of the pilots due for launch with many others, he was seated in the cockpit of his fueled and armed Skyhawk; the plane was spotted way aft, to port. Lt. Cmdr. John S. McCain III said later he heard a "whooshy" sound then a "low-order explosion" in front of him. Suddenly, two A-4s ahead of his plane were engulfed in flaming jet fuel — JP-5 — spewed from them. A bomb dropped to the deck and rolled about six feet and came to rest in a pool of burning fuel.

The awful conflagration, which was to leave 132 Forrestal crewmen dead, 62 more injured and two missing and presumed dead, had begun.

As the searing flames, fed by the spreading JP-5, spread aft and began to eat at the aircraft spotted around the deck, Lt. Cmdr. Browning escaped from his plane. He ducked under the tails of two Skyhawks spotted alongside his and ran up the flight deck toward the island area. Twice, explosions knocked him off balance. But he made it.



The fire soon enveloped all the aircraft in its wake. It spread to the fantail, to decks below. Bombs and ammunition were touched off in the midst of early fire-fighting efforts. Black, acrid smoke boiled into the sky. Other ships on Yankee Station sped to the aid of the stricken carrier.

As the fuel-fed fire licked at planes, ammunition and bombs, the heroes of Forrestal rushed to avert a total disaster; some died in the process. A chief petty officer, armed only with a small fire extinguisher, ran toward the bomb that had dropped to the flight deck. He was killed when it exploded as were members of fire-fighting teams trying to wrestle fire hoses into position. Shrapnel from the explosion was thrown a reported 400 feet.

"I saw a dozen people running . . into the fire, just before the bomb cooked off," Lt. Cmdr. Browning was quoted as saying later. He called very one of them "a hero of the first magnitude."

That was only the beginning.


This photo shows one of the bomb explosions at the rear of the ship, with smoke billowing.


"There was a horrendous explosion that shook 'Angel Two Zero.' It seemed as if the whole stern of the Forrestal had erupted. Suddenly there were rafts, fuel tanks, oxygen tanks, trop tanks and debris of every description floating in the water below."

The description is from Lt. David Clement, pilot of a rescue helicopter from the carrier USS Oriskany (CV 34), who had been asked to fly plane guard for Forrestal after completing a flight to that carrier. Soon, he and his crew — Ens. Leonard M. Eiland, Jr., Aviation Machinist's Mate (Jets) 3rd Class James D. James, Jr., and Airman Albert E. Barrows — would be on a far different mission. They would be rescuing Forrestal crewmen who jumped, fell or were knocked from the carrier — no less than five times within an hour. Later, they would be shuttling medical supplies to the stricken ship. The continuing explosions on Forrestal's flight deck would rock their helo, leaving the ship's aft end, in Lt. Clement's words, "a mass of twisted steel, with holes in the flight deck, a vacant space where there had been many aircraft and a towering column of black and gray smoke and flames."


As the Forrestal burned, a huge black cloud rolled off the Tonkin Gulf. Note how small the carrier looks in relation to the smoke plume. (It is just barely visible on the extreme lower left.)


At 11:47 A.M., Forrestal reported the flight deck fire was under control.

At 12:15, the ship sent word that the flight deck fire was out.

At 12:45, stubborn fires remained on the 01 and 02 levels and in hangar bay three. All available COD (Carrier Onboard Delivery) aircraft were being sent to the carriers Oriskany and USS Bon Homme Richard (CV 31) to be swiftly rigged with litters medical evacuation.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: forrestalfire; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; usnavy; ussforrestal; veterans; vietnam
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There will be stories told of the brave men of Forrestal for years to come. These are only a few examples:


1 posted on 10/14/2003 12:00:21 AM PDT by SAMWolf
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To: snippy_about_it; PhilDragoo; Johnny Gage; Victoria Delsoul; Darksheare; Valin; bentfeather; radu; ..
Fed by clothing, bedding and other flammables, the fires in the levels between the flight and hangar decks burned with an awesome fury. Men trying to locate shipmates trapped in compartments were driven out by flames and smoke. The after section of the hangar deck was so thick with smoke that it was impossible to see.


As the crew realized that some of the bombs were exploding in the fire very quickly, they decided to get rid of them in any way possible. The photo at left shows crew members rolling a bomb over to the deck edge so they could throw it over.


These are excerpts from an account given by Ens. Robert R. Schmidt, a 24-year-old engineering officer:

"... My work really wasn't the exciting kind of thing; just keeping the fire from spreading into any other areas. My people were doing all kinds of dirty work, moving into areas where the water was so hot it was almost boiling. OBA (Oxygen Breathing Apparatus) windows started fogging up and the people could hardly see anything. Yet, these kids went into the deeper areas of the ship, endangering their own lives. . . ."

At 1:48 p.m., Forrestal reported that the fires in the 01, 02 and 03 levels still burned, but that all the ship's machinery and steering equipment were operational.


Flight deck personnel aboard USS Oriskany (CVA-34) disembark a wounded Forrestal sailor from a SH-3A Sea King helicopter. Oriskany, herself the victim of a fire the previous year, provided medical support during the Forrestal fire.


At 2:12 p.m., the after radio compartment was evacuated because of dense smoke and water. "All fires out on 01 level, port side," the ship reported.

At 2:47 p.m. the compartment fires continued but progress was being made. Forrestal was steaming toward a rendezvous with the hospital ship USS Repose (AH 16).

At 3 p.m., the commander of Task Force 77 announced he was sending Forrestal to Subic Bay, Philippines, after the carrier rendezvoused with Repose.

At 5:05, a muster of Forrestal crewmen — both in the carrier and aboard other ships — was begun. Fires were still burning in the ship's carpenter shop and on the main deck.

At 6:44 p.m., the fires were still burning.

At 8:30 p.m., the fires in the 02 and 03 levels were contained, but the area was still too hot to enter. Holes were cut in the flight deck to provide access to compartments below.

Ens. Schmidt and his damage control team continued to fight their way into burning compartments; his work later that afternoon was as an investigator for the damage control assistant. There were times he had to enter spaces that were virtually inaccessible. "I asked for volunteers," he recalled, "and I immediately had two or three who followed me back into the guts of the fire. Several times, people would come up to me and say, 'What can I do? How can I help?' ... At first, I couldn't find work for all the people who wanted to help. I can't give enough praise to the sailors I supervised. They fought the fire and did all the dirty jobs ... These kids worked all night, 24-28 hours, containing the fire. . . . I've nothing but praise for the American sailor."







At 8:33 p.m., Forrestal reported that fires on the 02 level were under control but that fire fighting was greatly hampered because of smoke and heat.

At 8: 54, only the 02 level on the port side was still burning. Medical evacuation to Repose was in progress.

At 12:20 a.m., July 30, all the fires were out. Forrestal crewmembers continued to clear smoke and cool hot steel on the 02 and 03 levels.

The tragedy of the hours that had passed since the fire started began to penetrate into the minds and bodies of the men aboard the carrier. The adrenalin that had pumped through them began to seep away. They were tired but they could not sleep; they walked restlessly about the ship, lending a hand wherever they could.


The fire destroyed millions of dollars worth of planes and other equipment. The flight deck and much of the rest of the ship was in ruins after the fire.


As time passed, volunteers were still requested and swarms of men — men who had fought the fire since 11 a.m. and who were dead tired and sick from smoke and the sights they'd seen — forgot their fatigue and their sickness and raced through passageways to man the hoses again.

Lt. j.g. Frank Guinan sat on the deck next to his room, too tired to get up and go inside. "It seems so unreal," he said, and he added: "Nobody had better say to me that American youth [is] lazy. I saw men working today who were not only injured but thoroughly exhausted and they had to be carried away. They were trying so hard to help but they were actually becoming a burden."

It was time, now, to begin to assess the damage. There were four gaping holes in the flight deck where bombs exploded, pushing armored steel down and under — much like an old-fashioned hole in a beer can.

Stock was taken of the aircraft. It leveled off to a report of 26 either destroyed or jettisoned and 31 more damaged to some extent.


Aerial view of the flight deck on fire


And it was time to arrive at a final toll of dead and injured. For hours, the muster of Forrestal men continued; it was made terrifically difficult because so many of the crew were scattered in other ships.

And it was time to recall how those ships had come to the aid of the stricken Forrestal. From Oriskany and Bon Homme Richard had come medical teams and fire-fighting equipment. The skippers of the destroyers USS Rupertus (DD 851) and USS George K. MacKenzie (DD 836) , in what Rear Adm. Harvey P. Lanham, ComCarDiv Two, called an act of "magnificent seamanship," had maneuvered their ships to within 20 feet of the carrier so fire hoses could be effectively used.

But mostly it was a time to think of shipmates, those who had fought the flames and died because of their heroism. They were men like Data Systems Technician 2nd Class Stephen L. Hock, who was one of the first to reach the 03 level and who fought the fire and aided survivors until he was driven back by fire and smoke, then donned an OBA and returned again to the blazing area to fight the flames and help the injured. He kept up the pace for hours, then was overcome in a flooded and gas-filled compartment. Efforts to revive him were unsuccessful.


A ruined 5 inch gun is hoisted out of the ship during repairs. The guns were sent to the scrappers and eventually were replaced by missiles.


They were men like Aviation Ordnanceman 2nd Class Joseph C. Shartzer who returned to the inferno on the 03 level from which he had narrowly escaped and sacrificed his life as he aided in rescuing trapped men and fighting the fire.

They were men like Aviation Boatswain's Mate (Hydaulics) 3rd Class Robert A. Rhuda, who could have escaped from the smoke-filled compartments where he was on duty as a police petty officer, but who remained behind to awaken and direct or physically assist shipmates out of the area — returning time and time again until the explosion of a bomb destroyed the compartment in which he was last seen.

They were men like that.


Eighteen of the crew were eventually buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
They are buried beneath the memorial that appears above


As Forrestal steamed for Subic Bay, a memorial service was held in Hangar Bay One for the crewmen who had given their lives for their ship and their country. More than 2,000 Forrestal men listened to and prayed with Chaplains Geoffrey Gaughan and David Cooper as they paid tribute to their lost shipmates. The three volleys fired by 13 U.S. Marines were followed by the benediction, which closed the service after 15 minutes of prayer and hymns.

The heroes and the brave men aboard Forrestal were uniformly praised by those under whom they served. Vice Adm. C. T. Booth, ComNavAirLant, paid tribute to their courage, as did Adm. Roy L. Johnson, CinCPacFlt, Adm. E. P. Holmes, CinCLantFlt, and Paul Nitze, Deputy Secretary of Defense, who also spoke for Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara.

And there was this personal message to Capt. Beling: "I want you and the men of your command to know that the thoughts of the American people are with you at this tragic time. We all feel a great sense of personal loss. The devotion to duty and courage of your men have not gone unnoticed. The sacrifices they have made shall not be in vain." It was signed by Lyndon B. Johnson.

Capt. Beling also commented on his crew: "I am most proud of the way the crew reacted. The thing that is foremost in my mind is the concrete demonstration that I have seen of the worth of American youth. I saw many examples of heroism. I saw, and subsequently heard of, not one single example of cowardice."



Forrestal men were men like that.

Additional Sources:

www.sailorstotheend.com
www.naval-air.org
www.hazegray.org
www.forrestal.org
users.erols.com
tampabayonline.net
www.lostliners.com
www.arlingtoncemetery.net

2 posted on 10/14/2003 12:00:55 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: All
List of those who lost their lives onboard USS Forrestal - 29 July 1967 (As listed on panel 24E at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial (the Wall) in Washington, D.C.)



Marvin J. Adkins * Everettt A. Allen * Gary J. Ardeneaux

Tony A. Barnett * Dennis M. Barton * Robert L. Bennett

Mark R. Bishop * James L. Blaskis * William V. Brindle

Bobby J. Brown * Jerry D. Byars * Marvin F. Campeau

Jack M. Carlan * Daniel G. Cavazos * Ray A. Chatelain

Richard D. Clendenen * William D. Collins * Robert B. Cotton

James L. Crenshaw * Mario C. Crugnola, Jr. * Robert J. Davies

Thomas J. Dawson, Jr. * Jerold V. Despard * Edward R. Dorsey

Joseph G. Dugas * Paul A. Dupere * John S. Duplaga

Walter T. Eads * James A. Earick * John T. Edwards

Gerald W. Farrier * Kenneth L. Fasth * John J. Fiedler

Russell L. Fike * Harold Fontenot * Johnnie L. Frazier

Gerald G. Fredrickson * Herbert A. Frye * Ramon Garza

Robert E. Geller * Richard H. Gibson * Laurence J. Gilbert

William T. Gilroy * Larry E. Grace * Russell A. Grazier

Charles C. Gregory * William C. Hartgen * Robert L. Hasz

Richard A. Hatcher * William K. Hinckley * Stephen L. Hock

Larry D. Holley * Calvin D. Howison * Philip L. Hudson

Julius B. Hughes * Donald N. Hugo * Ralph W. Jacobs

Donald W. Jedlicka * William B. Justin * Thomas M. Kane

Charles D. Kieser * Joseph Kosik III * Edward L. La Barr

Wade A. Lannom, Jr. * William Lee * Robert C. Leonberg

John T. Lilla * Arnold E. H. Lohse * Charles E. Long

William E. Lowe * Kenneth W. Lozier * James S. MacVickar, Jr.

Ralph E. Manning * Earle E. McAuliffe, Jr. * Brian D. McConahay

George C. McDonald * Frank C. McNelis, Jr. * William V. McQuaide

Allan R. Metz * George D. Miller * Edward A. Mindyas

Hubert H. Morgan, Jr. * Leroy Moser * James E. Neumeyer

Gary E. Newby * James E. Newkirk * Ronald R. Ogring

Thomas D. Ott II * Wayne H. Ott * Richard L. Owens

Richard T. Pinta * Raymond N. Plesh * John C. Pody

Ernest E. Polston * Douglas A. Post * Robert M. Priviech

John M. Pruner * Robert A. Rhuda * Charles R. Rich

Jerry P. Rodgers * Dale R. Ross * James M. Runnels

Harvey D. Scofield * Joseph C. Shartzer * William J. Shields

Richard M. Sietz * David W. Smith * Richard T. Smith

John F. Snow * John C. Spiess * Nelson E. Spitler

Johnny W. Spivey * Gerry L. Stark * Walter E. Steele

Wendell W. Stewart * Robert A. Stickler * Kenneth D. Strain

Robert H. Swain * Delton E. Terry * Norman A. Thomas

William F. Thompson * Richard J. Vallone * Robert J. Velasquez

Juan A. Velez * George E. Wall * Harold D. Watkins

Gregory L. Webb * Gerald A. Wehde * Judson A. Wells, Jr.

Richard L. Wescott * Edward J. Wessells * Fred D. White

Kerry D. Wisdom * Robert L. Zwerlein

Not to be forgotten...


3 posted on 10/14/2003 12:01:24 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: All

God Bless America!
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4 posted on 10/14/2003 12:01:44 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: SAMWolf

5 posted on 10/14/2003 12:01:46 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: SAMWolf
Veterans Day 2003 - Attention Northern California
PDN News Desk ^ | Monday, October 13, 2003 | Patriot Defenders Network

Posted on 10/13/2003 11:56 AM PDT by comwatch

Veterans Day is right around the corner. 

It's an opportunity for us to support our troops, our country and show appreciations for our local veterans. It's another way to counter the Anti-Iraq campaign propaganda.  Would you like to help?  Are there any VetsCoR folks on the Left Coast?  We have a school project that everyone can help with too, no matter where you live.  See the end of this post for details.


Three Northern California events have been scheduled and we need help with each:
 
Friday evening - November 7th Veterans in School (An Evening of Living History, A Veterans Day Ice Cream Social)
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003c.htm
 
Saturday - 11 a.m. November 8th: Veterans Day Parade (PDN & Friends parade entry)
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003b.htm
 
Sunday November 9, 2003 Noon to 3:00 PM Support our Troops & Veterans Rally prior to Youth Symphony Concert
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003d.htm
 
Each of the WebPages above have a link to e-mail a confirmation of your interest and desire to volunteer.  These are family events and everyone is welcome to pitch in.  We'd really appreciate hearing from you directly via each these specific links.  This way, we can keep you posted on only those projects you want to participate in.

Veterans in School - How you can help if you're not close enough to participate directly. If you are a veteran, share a story of your own with the children.  If you have family serving in the military, tell them why it's important that we all support them. Everyone can thank them for having this special event.  Keep in mind that there are elementary school kids. 

Help us by passing this message around to other Veteran's groups.  I have introduced VetsCoR and FreeperFoxhole to a number of school teachers.  These living history lessons go a long way to inspire patriotism in our youth.  Lets see if we can rally America and give these youngsters enough to read for may weeks and months ahead.  If we can, we'll help spread it to other schools as well.

  Click this link to send an email to the students.

6 posted on 10/14/2003 12:02:06 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; radu; Darksheare; All
Good morning everyone!


7 posted on 10/14/2003 12:09:42 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poet's Rock the Boat!! WHOO HOO, Ms Feather is home!!!)
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To: bentfeather
Good Morning Feather. Glad to see you're home.
8 posted on 10/14/2003 12:16:22 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: SAMWolf; JulieRNR21; Vets_Husband_and_Wife; Cinnamon Girl; Alamo-Girl; Bigg Red; jwalsh07; ...
God Rest and Keep you in His loving care, Shipmates!

Dear Lord, watch over our Brothers and Sisters who remain in harms way, where ever they are around the globe. Grant them Thy blessing, that they be protected from harm, and may they be safely, and swiftly, returned to their loved ones. AMEN

Thanks again, Sam, for all the hard work you and Snippy do to post these threads!

Click on the imageCMHonor to visit the tribute page
±

"The Era of Osama lasted about an hour, from the time the first plane hit the tower to the moment the General Militia of Flight 93 reported for duty."
Toward FREEDOM

9 posted on 10/14/2003 12:25:09 AM PDT by Neil E. Wright (An oath is FOREVER)
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To: Matthew Paul; mark502inf; Skylight; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Tuesday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
10 posted on 10/14/2003 2:22:32 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: bentfeather
Beautiful Graphic feather. Good morning.
11 posted on 10/14/2003 2:23:29 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Howdy Snippy, you had your coffee yet??

I did at 3:00am and now I can't sleep!!! LOL
12 posted on 10/14/2003 2:29:27 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poets' Rock the Boat!! WHOO HOO)
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To: bentfeather
No coffee yet, Foxhole ping list comes first. I'm going to get a cup now though. Glad to have you home.
13 posted on 10/14/2003 2:33:25 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks snippy, glad to be home.
14 posted on 10/14/2003 2:35:42 AM PDT by Soaring Feather (Poets' Rock the Boat!! WHOO HOO)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole. How's it going?
15 posted on 10/14/2003 3:01:54 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: E.G.C.
Good morning EGC. It's the start of a shortened work week for me, still seems like a Monday!
16 posted on 10/14/2003 3:17:18 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
I saw the movie "Trial by Fire" in boot camp. I scared the hell out of me. I thought about it everytime I went on the flight deck. This year I read the book "Sailors to the End." They were truly Sailors to the End. Heros every one.
17 posted on 10/14/2003 3:17:52 AM PDT by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: SAMWolf

Today's classic warship, USS Wisconsin (BB-9)

Illinois class battleship
displacement. 11,564
length. 373'10"
beam. 72'2.5"
draft. 28'8.1"
speed. 16 k.
complement. 531
armament. 4 13", 14 6", 16 6-pdrs., 6 1-pdrs., 4 .30-cal. mg.

The USS Wisconsin (Battleship No. 9) was laid down on 9 February 1897 at San Francisco, Calif., by the Union Iron Works; launched on 26 November 1898; sponsored by Miss Elizabeth Stephenson, the daughter of Senator Isaac Stephenson of Marinette, Wis., and commissioned on 4 February 1901, Capt. George C. Reiter in command.

She mainly operated along the western coasts of North and Central America during the next two years, often serving as flagship of the Pacific Squadron. She also cruised to the South Pacific in late 1901 and to Chile early in 1902. Between June 1903 and September 1906 Wisconsin was stationed in the Far East as Asiatic Fleet flagship. She was out of commission at the Puget Sound Navy Yard from November 1906 until April 1908, and in July 1908 joined the "Great White Fleet" battleships that were then preparing for the trans-Pacific stage of their cruise around the World. Participating in the remainder of this epic voyage, Wisconsin visited New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Japan, China, Ceylon, then crossed the Indian Ocean, transited the Suez Canal, and passed through the Mediterranean and across the Atlantic before steaming into Hampton Roads, Virginia, in February 1909.

Over the next few months, Wisconsin underwent modernization work that greatly changed her appearance. Emerging from the shipyard with a new "basket" foremast, grey paint and many other alterations, she operated along the U.S. East Coast and in the Caribbean from mid-1909 to the spring of 1910, then went into reserve. Fitted with a second "basket" mast, she emerged briefly from reserve in 1912, and in 1915 joined the Naval Academy Training Squadron. In the middle of that year, the battleship passed through the Panama Canal on a Midshipmen's training cruise, thus returning to the Pacific for the first time in nearly seven years.

However, Wisconsin's remaining career was primarily spent in the Atlantic. Her Naval Academy tour ended when the United States entered World War I in April 1917. During that conflict she was employed to train the huge numbers of new Sailors needed to man the greatly enlarged wartime Navy. Wisconsin generally operated in the Chesapeake Bay for this purpose, but made occasional trips along the East Coast. With the War at an end, in early 1919 she participated in Atlantic Fleet exercises off Cuba and, in mid-year, carried Naval Academy midshipmen on a Caribbean cruise. Decommissioned in May 1920, a few weeks later Wisconsin was given the hull number BB-9, but had no further active service. She was sold for scrapping in January 1922.

18 posted on 10/14/2003 3:20:21 AM PDT by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: SAMWolf
Thank you SAM for today's thread on the USS FORRESTAL.

"I've nothing but praise for the American sailor."

"Nobody had better say to me that American youth [is] lazy. I saw men working today who were not only injured but thoroughly exhausted and they had to be carried away."

"USS George K. MacKenzie (DD 836) , in what Rear Adm. Harvey P. Lanham, ComCarDiv Two, called an act of "magnificent seamanship," had maneuvered their ships to within 20 feet of the carrier so fire hoses could be effectively used."

"I am most proud of the way the crew reacted. The thing that is foremost in my mind is the concrete demonstration that I have seen of the worth of American youth. I saw many examples of heroism. I saw, and subsequently heard of, not one single example of cowardice."


SAM, imo, after having met the young men of the USS TARAWA, I have no doubt that this is how sailors would respond no matter the ship or the time and place. They showed a bond between them that I can only guess happens not only with Sailors but also with Soldiers and Marines and any of our Armed Forces in harms way and this is why all those serving are hero's in my eyes.

Heartbreaking story SAM, I thought of "our" sailors while I read this and it makes it even more touching and sad.

May God Bless the lost and the living of the FORRESTAL.

19 posted on 10/14/2003 3:56:45 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Run the straight race through God's good Grace,
Lift up your eyes and seek His face; Life with it's way before us lies, Christ is the path and Christ is the prize.
20 posted on 10/14/2003 4:17:07 AM PDT by The Mayor (I asked God for a friend, He gave me all of YOU...)
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To: aomagrat
Good morning aomagrat. The thread topic today reminds me to thank you for your service to our country. Thank you.
21 posted on 10/14/2003 4:36:18 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
There's the coffee I've been looking for. Good morning Mayor.
22 posted on 10/14/2003 4:37:00 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning
23 posted on 10/14/2003 4:41:38 AM PDT by The Mayor (I asked God for a friend, He gave me all of YOU...)
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To: snippy_about_it
Present!
24 posted on 10/14/2003 5:03:59 AM PDT by manna
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To: manna
Good morning manna.
25 posted on 10/14/2003 5:31:27 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning to all no rocks this time. Great post the last two days. This ones shows how great our service people are and do thier duty no matter the odds. Have a great day.
26 posted on 10/14/2003 5:42:08 AM PDT by weldgophardline (Pacifism Creates Terrorism & so does the GREEN PARTY)
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To: SAMWolf
On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on October 14:
1542 Abul-Fath Djalal-ud-Din, 3rd Mogol emperor of India (1556-1605)
1633 James II king of England (1685-88)
1644 William Penn English Quaker & founder of PA
1712 George Grenville British PM (1763-65)
1734 Francis Lightfoot Lee, US farmer/signer (Declaration of Independence)
1857 Elwood Haynes auto pioneer, built one of 1st US autos
1867 Masaoka Shiki Japan, haiku & tanka poet/diarist (Salt Water Ballads)
1869 Joseph Duveen England, art connoisseur (Elgin marbles)
1871 Alexander von Zemlinsky Vienna Austria, composer (Der Schneeman)
1873 Raymond C Ewry Indiana, polio victim who won 10 Olympic golds
1882 Eamon DeValera NY, Pres of Ireland (1937-48, 51-54, 57-59)
1888 Katherine Mansfield New Zealand writer (Aloe, Garden Party)
1890 Dwight D Eisenhower Denison, Tx (R) 34th Pres (1953-1961)
1894 e. e. cummings Cambridge Mass, poet (Tulips & Chimneys)
1896 Lillian Gish silent film/stage actress (Birth of a Nation)
1899 Alan Washbond US, 2-man bobsled (Olympic-gold-1932)
1906 Benita Hume London England, actress (Vicky-The Halls of Ivy)
1906 Hannah Arendt Germany, historian (Origins of Totalitarianism)
1907 Pert Kelton Great Falls Mont, actress (Cavalcade of Stars)
1910 John Wooden basketball coach (UCLA-10 national championships)
1916 C Everett Koop surgeon general (1981-89)
1924 Robert Webber Santa Ana Calif, actor (79 Park Avenue)
1927 Roger Moore London England, actor (Alaskans, Maverick, Saint)
1928 Gary Graffman NYC, pianist (Leventritt Award)
1931 Rafael Puyana Bogota Colombia, baroque harpsichordist (NY debut 1957)
1935 La Monte Young Bern Idaho, composer (Compostion in 1990)
1938 John Dean III former White House counsel, Watergate figure
1939 Ralph Lauren fashion designer (Chaps)
1940 Cliff Richards [Harry Webb], England, rocker (Suddenly)
1940 Pat Finley Asheville NC, actress (Ellen Hartley-Bob Newhart Show)
1943 Lance Rentzel NFL receiver (Minn, LA)/ex-husband of Joey Heatherton
1943 Noreen Corcoran Quincy Mass, actress (Kelly-Bachelor Father)
1944 Udo Kier Germany, actor (Warhol Dracula, Warhol Frankenstein)
1946 Justin Hayward singer (Moody Blues-Nights in White Satin)
1947 Charlie Joiner Many La, NFL receiver (Houston, Cincinnati, San Diego)
1950 Sheila Young Ockerwitz US, 500m speed skater (Olympic-gold-1976)
1952 Harry Anderson Newport RI, actor (Judge Harry Stone-Night Court)
1952 Nikolai Adrianov USSR, gymnast (Olympic-4 gold/2 silver/bronze-1976)
1953 Greg Evigan South Amboy NJ, actor (BJ-BJ & the Bear)
1956 Beth Daniel Charleston SC, LPGA golfer (1980 player of the year)
1958 Thomas Dolby rocker (She Blinded Me With Science)
1959 A.J. Pero Staten Is, drummer (Twisted Sister-Not Gonna Take It)
1961 Melanie Wilson actress (Jennifer-Perfect Strangers)
1961 Mike Tramp Denmark, heavy metal rocker (White Lion-Mane Attraction)
1967 Arleen Sorkin actress (Day of Our Life, America's Funniest Videos)



Deaths which occurred on October 14:
0530 Dioscurus, anti-Pope (530), dies
1066 Harold II, King of England (1066), dies
1880 Victorio, Apache chief, killed by Mexican army
1944 Erwin Rommel German Field Marshall (WW II-Africa), dies at 52
1959 Errol Flynn actor, dies
1977 Bing Crosby dies of a heart attack at 74, in Madrid, Spain
1983 Paul Fix actor (Rifleman), dies at 82 of kidney failure
1986 Keenan Wynn actor (Dallas, Call to Glory, Last Precinct), dies at 70
1990 Leonard Bernstein composer (West Side Story), dies at 72



Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1966 THOMAS DARWIN JOEL---SANTA CLARA CA.
1967 CONAWAY GARY LEE---BLUE ISLAND IL.
[REMAINS RETURNED 8/84]
1967 VAUGHAN ROBERT REDDINGTON---LOS ANGELES CA.

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.



On this day...
530 [Discorus] ends his reign as Catholic Pope
1066 Battle of Hastings, in which William the Conqueror wins England
1322 Robert the Bruce of Scotland defeats King Edward II of England at Byland, forcing Edward to accept Scotland's independence
1586 Mary Queen of Scots goes on trial for conspiracy against Elizabeth
1651 Laws are passed in Massachusetts forbidding the poor to adopt excessive styles of dress
1773 Britain's East India Company tea ships' cargo is burned at Annapolis, Md.
1774 1st Continental Congress is 1st to declare colonial rights (Phila)
1806 Battle of Auerstadt-French beat Prussians
1834 1st black to obtain a US patent, Henry Blair, for a corn planter
1843 British arrest Irish nationalist Daniel O'Connell for conspiracy
1862 Baseballer James Creighton ruptures bladder hitting HR, dies 10/18
1867 15th & last Tokugawa Shogun resigns in Japan
1884 George Eastman patents paper-strip photographic film
1905 NY Giants beats Phila A's, 4 games to 1 in 2nd World Series, Giant's Christy Mathewson's 3rd straight world series shutout
1906 All Chicago World Series, 1st AL victory, White Sox win 4 games to 2 (World Series #3)
1908 Cubs beat Tigers 4 games to 1 in 1st 5th World Series rematch
1912 Bull Moose Teddy Roosevelt shot while campaigning in Milwaukee
1920 Part of Petsamo province ceded by Soviet Union to Finland
1922 1st automated telephones-Pennsylvania exchange in NYC
1926 Alan Alexander Milne's book "Winnie-the-Pooh"
1929 Phila A's beat Chicago Cubs, 4 games to 1 in 26th World Series
1929 Philadelphia A's set world series record of 10 runs in an inning (World Series #26)
1933 Nazi Germany announces withdrawal from League of Nations
1934 "Lux Radio Theatre" premieres
1939 BMI (Broadcast Music Incorporated) formed
1943 US 8th Air Force loses 60 B-17 bombers during assault on Schweinfurt
1944 German Field Marshal Erwin Rommel commits suicide rather than face trial for his part in an attempt to overthrow Hitler
1945 Chicago Cardinals end a record 29-game losing streak, beat Bears
1947 Chuck Yeager in Bell XS-1 makes 1st supersonic flight (Mach 1.015)
1949 14 US Communist Party leaders convicted of sedition
1950 Rev Sun Young Moon liberated from Hung Nam prison
1951 Det Lion Jack Christiansen returns 2 punts for touchdowns vs LA Rams
1953 Ike promises to fire as Red any federal worker taking 5th amendment
1958 Malagasy Republic becomes autonomous republic in French Community
1960 Peace Corps 1st suggested by JFK
1962 US U-2 espionage planes locate missile launchers in Cuba
1962 Houston Oiler George Blanda throws for 6 TD passes vs NY Titans 56-17
1964 Martin Luther King Jr wins Nobel Peace Prize
1965 Joe Engle in X-15 reaches 80 km
1965 Sandy Koufax hurls his 2nd shutout of world series beating Twins 2-0 (World Series #62)
1968 1st live telecast from a manned US spacecraft (Apollo 7)
1968 Gruener & Watson (US) set scuba depth record (133 m) in Bahamas
1968 J.R. Hines of US runs 100 m in world record 9.95 sec
1969 Race riots in Springfield Mass
1970 Cleve Cavaliers lose to Buffalo Braves in their 1st game 107-92
1971 2 killed in Memphis racial disturbances
1975 Pres Ford escapes injury when his limousine is struck broadside
1976 Chris Chambliss' 9th inning lead off homer gives Yanks pennant #30
1976 Soyuz 23 carries 2 to Salyut 6, but returns without docking
1977 Linda Ronstadt sings the national anthem at the 74th World Series
1978 1st TV movie from a TV series-"Rescue from Gilligan's Island"
1978 Despite Denis Potvin hat trick in 3:21 Islanders lose 7-10, making Islander record when scoring a hat trick-22-2-1
1979 Flyers start 35 game unbeaten streak beating Toronto 4-3
1979 NHL's greatest scorer Wayne Gretsky scores his 1st NHL goal
1980 Bob Marley's last concert
1980 Pres nominee Ronald Reagan promises to name a woman to Supreme Court
1982 6,000 Unification church couples wed in Korea
1982 Islanders assessed 108 penalty minutes Penguins 125 (233 total)
1982 NY Islanders greatest shutout margin (9-0) vs Pittsburgh Penguins
1983 US Marine peacekeeper Sgt Allen Soifert killed by sniper in Beirut
1984 Detroit Tigers beat SD Padres, 4 games to 1 in 81st World Series
1985 On Mon Night football, Jets retire Joe Namath's #12, beat Miami 23-7
1986 Concentration camp survivor Elie Wiesel wins Nobel Peace Prize
1986 The IOC decides to stagger the Winter & Summer Olympic schedule
1986 Tim Kides of West NY, NJ performs 25,000 leg raises in 11:57:15
1987 In Midland, Tx 1«-year-old Jessica McClure falls 22' (7m) down a well
1988 Mike Tyson countersues Robin Givens for divorce and annulment
1988 NJ Devils raise their 1st pennant (Patrick Div Playoff Champs)
1989 Texas A&I, Johnny Bailey sets NCAA season rush record at 6,085 yards
1990 Jeff Goldblum & wife Geena Davis file for divorce
1990 SF 49er Joe Montana passes for 6 touchdowns vs Atlanta (45-35)
1994 - Nobel Prize awarded to Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Rabin & Shimon Peres





Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Bangladesh : Durga Puja
Malagasy Rep : Independence Day (1958)
Maryland : Peggy Stewart Day-US sinks ship against taxes (1774)
Peo's Dem Rep of Yemen (South Yemen) : Independence Day (1962)
Western Samoa : White Sunday (2nd Sunday) (Sunday)
Canada : Thanksgiving Day (Monday)
Florida : Farmers' Day (1915) (Monday)
Hawaii : Discoverer's Day (Monday)
US : Columbus Day (1492) (Monday)
Virgin Is & Puerto Rico : Friendship Day (Monday)
Firefighters Week (Day 2)
[CT, NY, MA] Dictionary Week (Day 3)
national lower case day
Country Music Month
National Sarcastics' Awareness Month


Religious Observances
Orth : Protection (Intercession) of Mary (10/1 OS)
RC : Memorial of St Callistus I, pope (217-222), martyr (opt)
Ang : Commemoration of St Teresa of Avila


Religious History
1656 The first punitive legislation in Massachusetts against Quakers was enacted. (The marriage of church-and-state in Puritanism made them regard the ritual-free Quakers as spiritually apostate and politically subversive).
1735 Methodist pioneer John Wesley first set sail to America, to minister to the Indians under Georgia Gov. Oglethorpe. On this same date, Wesley began keeping his famous, 55-year-long journal, whose last entry was dated Oct 24, 1790.
1835 Birth of William G. Fischer, American sacred chorister. Three of his compositions later became hymn tunes: FISCHER ("Whiter Than Snow"), HANKEY ("I Love to Tell the Story") and ROCK OF REFUGE ("The Rock That is Higher Than I").
1876 Birth of Harry A. Ironside, American clergyman. Converted at 14, he preached for the Salvation Army, later for the Plymouth Brethren. From 1930-1948, he pastored at the Moody Memorial Church in Chicago.
1983 The National Council of Churches issued "The Inclusive Language Lectionary -- " Scripture readings translated to omit or blur gender references. God was thus called "Father and Mother" or "the One"; and "man" was replaced by "humanity" or "humankind." The translation proved shortlived.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



Thought for the day :
"He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe is as good as dead; his eyes are closed."


Confucius Say...
Man who eat many prunes get good run for money.


Murphys Law of the day...
In any calculation, any error which can creep in will do so.


Astounding fact # 654,985...
The word "Checkmate" in chess comes from the Persian phrase "Shah Mat", which means "the king is dead".
27 posted on 10/14/2003 5:44:34 AM PDT by Valin (I have my own little world, but it's okay - they know me here.)
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To: weldgophardline
Good morning and thank you weldgophardline. Glad there are no rocks today.:)
28 posted on 10/14/2003 6:34:43 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin
Thought for the day :
"He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe is as good as dead; his eyes are closed."

Good morning Valin. I like this thought for they day.

29 posted on 10/14/2003 6:38:56 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
I'm in.
30 posted on 10/14/2003 7:39:20 AM PDT by Darksheare (The search for artificial singularities has ended, they have been found inside Dem's heads and at DU)
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To: *all

Air Power
North American (R)A-5 "Vigilante"

The Vigilante, designed and built for the U.S. Navy by North American Aircraft Division at Columbus, Ohio, was the only Mach 2 bomber to serve aboard a Navy carrier. Initially designated the A3J-1 attack bomber, it was one of the largest and heaviest aircraft ever accepted for service aboard U.S. Navy carriers. Production began in 1956 and it entered squadron service in June 1961. It was redesignated the A-5 and fully deployed by August 1962, when the USS Enterprise, the Navy's first nuclear aircraft carrier, made its inaugural cruise.

A serious design shortcoming involved the unique linear bomb bay. In simple terms it consisted of a tube running inside the fuselage, between the two engines. The weapon was loaded through an opening between the two jet exhausts. Weapons ejection was also effected via this opening, with a solid fuel cartridge used to propel the device clear of the aircraft once the jettisonable tail-cone faring had been ejected. The weapons bay was considerably longer than the nuclear weapons which the Vigilante was originally intended to carry therefore some of this space was utilized for additional fuel. This fuel was contained in two jettisonable tanks located aft of the weapon and linked to it. The tanks, which were ejected with the bomb, acted as aerodynamic stabilizers for the bomb's free-fall to the target.

Although a viable system in theory, in actual practice difficulties were encountered in clearing the linear bomb bay during operational use. At the same time a major shift in Navy policy deleted the strategic bombing role. Consequently plans to produce the improved Vigilante attack-bomber were abandoned after it had reached the flight-test phase.

Changing defense strategies marked a change of focus away from carrier-based, heavy attack squadrons. In 1964, all the Vigilantes were reconfigured as reconnaissance aircraft and designated RA-5C. Reconnaissance gear was mounted in what had been the Vigilante's bomb bay. Other modifications allowed the RA-5C to carry four external fuel tanks. These additions increased the airplane's range on reconnaissance missions and allowed it to keep its attack capability with externally mounted bombs and rockets.

The RA-5C Vigilante first flew on June 30, 1962, and was capable of all-weather, long-range, carrier- or land-based, multisensor, reconnaissance missions involving high-altitude supersonic, or very low-altitude, high-speed penetrations. Its inertial navigation system provided the precise position location information demanded. The Vigilante pilot and the reconnaissance/attack navigator (RAN) sat in tandem under individual clamshell-type canopies. The RAN controlled all reconnaissance functions, although the pilot could assume control of the oblique-mounted serial frame cameras. Each crewmember had a catapult/rocket-powered ejection seat, also designed and produced at the Columbus facility, capable of high-altitude, high-speed, or ground-level recoveries.

The combination of the RA-5C Vigilante's ability to deliver conventional weapons, day or night in all kinds of weather, as well as to complete tactical reconnaissance missions made it one of the most versatile aircraft in the world. RA-5Cs served throughout the Vietnam War and were retired from service in 1979.

It was one of the biggest aircraft that ever operated from a carrier.

Specifications:
Primary Function: Tactical reconnaissance, carrier-based attack aircraft
Contractor: North American / Rockwell
Crew: Two (pilot, navigator)
Powerplant: Two turbojet General Electric J79-GE-8 engines (10,800 lb each)
First Flight: August 31, 1958
End of Service: November 20, 1979

Dimensions:
Length: 76 ft 6 in (23.32 m)
Wingspan: 53 ft (16.15 m)
Height: 19 ft (5.79 m)
Weights: Empty: 37,500 lb (17,009 kg) / Maximum Takeoff: 79,588 lb (36,094 kg)

Performance :
Speed: 1,385 mph (2,230 km/h)
Ceiling: 48,400 ft (14,752 m)
Range: 1,500 miles (2,415 km)

Armaments:
1 nuclear weapon, and conventional weapons on two hard points






All photos Copyright of aviaweb.calexo.org
31 posted on 10/14/2003 8:00:38 AM PDT by Johnny Gage (If you try to fail, and succeed ....... Which have you done?)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip & Sam~

Who was it that said, "a fire on a ship is a serious matter"? Mercy.

32 posted on 10/14/2003 8:12:29 AM PDT by w_over_w (Once upon a time, there was place outside of Wash., DC called America . . .)
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To: Johnny Gage
Regarding your "tagline" . . . it can be answered in the game of golf with what we call a "nice miss".
33 posted on 10/14/2003 8:21:20 AM PDT by w_over_w (Once upon a time, there was place outside of Wash., DC called America . . .)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy.

20 Minutes to bring up the thread and post Good Morning, think I'll be back later.
34 posted on 10/14/2003 8:41:18 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: Johnny Gage
Morning Johnny.


35 posted on 10/14/2003 8:50:06 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: SAMWolf
Morning SAM. It appears to be just FR for me. I can get to the front page but after that, navigation is SUPER SLOW.

Good time to get some reading or something else done. ;)
36 posted on 10/14/2003 8:50:48 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
Morning SAM. It appears to be just FR for me. I can get to the front page but after that, navigation is SUPER SLOW.

Good time to get some reading or something else done. ;)
37 posted on 10/14/2003 8:54:15 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Darksheare
Morning Darksheare.

FR's slow this morning. I've been trying for quite a while just to post and then double posted to SAM. I think I'll take a lunch break and a walk. LOL. Arrrghhh!
38 posted on 10/14/2003 8:59:20 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Neil E. Wright
Thanks for the ping
bttt
39 posted on 10/14/2003 11:42:54 AM PDT by firewalk
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To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C. Man it felt like I was stuck in the slow motion part of the Matrix this morning.
40 posted on 10/14/2003 11:55:43 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: aomagrat
Morning aomagrat. The Forrestal Fire story is full of heroics. It also proves that in the military there is danger no matter where you are.
41 posted on 10/14/2003 11:59:08 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: aomagrat
It's amazing the different look when the ship is painted white vs battleship grey. For some reason it doesn't "look" as deadly in white.
42 posted on 10/14/2003 12:00:15 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: msdrby
Air Power ping
43 posted on 10/14/2003 12:00:16 PM PDT by Prof Engineer (Always use the word Impossible with the greatest caution ~ Werner Von Braun___ 5/14/04 Baby Moot '04)
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To: snippy_about_it
I imagine the feeling sailors have for "their" ship is the same that those in the Army have for "their" unit. A lot of pride involved.You could hear it in the voices of the Tarawa crew as they showed us around.
44 posted on 10/14/2003 12:02:35 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: The Mayor
Morning Mayor. I hope the coffee isn't cold. Hard a hard time climbing into the Foxhole today.
45 posted on 10/14/2003 12:03:36 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: manna
Hi Manna!


46 posted on 10/14/2003 12:04:14 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: weldgophardline
Afternoon weldgophardline.

Thanks for the compliments. Snippy worked very hard on the Katyn thread.
47 posted on 10/14/2003 12:06:06 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: Valin
1944 Erwin Rommel German Field Marshall (WW II-Africa), dies at 52





"We have a very daring and skillful opponent against us. And may I say across the havoc of war, a great general."
-Winston Churchill

(commenting on Rommel)

48 posted on 10/14/2003 12:16:15 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: Darksheare
Afternoon Darkshear. Who tried to lock me out of the Foxhole?
49 posted on 10/14/2003 12:17:05 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Lost interest? It's so bad I've lost apathy!)
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To: SAMWolf
Hey, SAM ...
50 posted on 10/14/2003 12:17:49 PM PDT by manna
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