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The FReeper Foxhole Studies the German 88mm - Fliegerabwehrkanonen (Flak) AAA - Oct. 27th, 2003
see educational sources | various

Posted on 10/27/2003 3:55:42 AM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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Fliegerabwehrkanonen (Flak) AAA



German 88mm FLAK


FLAK - Its origin is the German phrase for antiaircraft defense cannon - FLiegerAbwehr Kanone.

FlaK-Fliegerabwehrkanone (German) AA artillery; also sometimes given as Flugabwehrkanone or Flugzeugabwehrkanone

World War II veterans who fought in the Mediterranean or European Theaters are far too familiar with the distinctive sound or “boom” of the German “Achtacht” or 88mm Flugzeugabwehrkanone (Flak) gun. Although originally designed as an anti-aircraft weapon and assigned to the Luftwaffe or German Air Force, during the Spanish Civil War and later, the North African campaign, the 88 earned a well-deserved reputation as a highly effective ground combat weapon used against tanks, troops and fortifications.

This famous weapon did, in fact, have its origins during the first World War, when guns of this caliber were used in an anti-aircraft role.


These guns were mounted on a 4 wheel trailers towed on specially fitted army lorries. When in action arms with jacks were swung out to form a secure firing platform. For that time these guns were extremely mobile and could swiftly be ready to fire.

The year was 1916 when these weapons entered service. They were manufactured by two factories, namely Krupps of Essen and Rheinmetall-Borsig. They were designated Geschütze 8.8 Kw Flak.



By the terms of the Versailles treaty in 1919, Krupps were forbidden to produce small caliber guns below 17 cm, and Rheinmetall were prohibited from making guns above this caliber. In order to overcome these restrictions by the Disarmament Commission, Krupp came to an agreement in 1921 with the Bofors Company in Sweden, whereby Bofors acquired the foreign rights for all Krupp gun designs in return for granting design and research facilities for Krupp`s design team at the Bofors Works.



By 1928, Krupp`s team, working in Sweden, had developed the plans for a new design of the 88 mm High Velocity Gun with the refinement of a semi-automatic breech which re-cocked the striker on ejection of the cartridge case. In 1931, a Krupp Designer took the finalized plans to Essen and production of the new 88 mm Gun began in Germany in 1933, by which time most of the Versailles Treaty Restrictions were being openly flouted by the Nazi Regime which gained absolute power in Germany that year.

The new Gun was designated 8.8 Flak 18, and first used in action with the German backed Nationalist Forces in the Spanish Civil War, 1936-39, where it was mainly employed in the anti-aircraft role for which it was designed. The Flak 18 was carried on a cruciform mounting with a wheeled bogie fore and aft for towing. Before firing it had to be lowered from the bogies and emplaced. Battle experience in Spain showed the need for a reduction in time taken to get the weapon into action, and provision for barrel changing after prolonged fire.


The famous German 'Eighty-Eight' in its original anti-aircraft guise. It later achieved fame as an anti-tank gun, but it remained the backbone of Germany's air defense throughout the war.


In 1936-37, therefore, improvements were made on the basic design, and the revised model, the 8.8 Flak 36, had a multi-section interchangeable barrel and a new trailer/ mounting, designated Sonderanhaenger 201, with an improved cruciform platform and a simpler method of lowering it for emplacement.

Lowering was effected by unwinding the winches on the two bogie/limber assemblies so that they tilted and thus lowered the platform to the ground. The bogie/limber assemblies were then wheeled clear and the cruciform side arms lowered. The mounting was leveled via the jacks on the end of each arm of the cruciform and spikes driven through the arms into the ground completed the emplacement of the weapon.



Most important improvement with the Sonderanhaenger 201, however, was the facility for firing the gun at a low angle against ground targets without the need for lowering the mounting to the ground. For firing from the traveling position, the side arms of the cruciform were lowered, the wheel brakes were applied by hand on the rear trailer, and chocks were placed behind the wheels. From 1938 many Flak 18s were retrospectively fitted on the Sonderanhaenger 201, and 50 of these were further modified so that one man could lay the gun for both line and elevation, though this feature was not continued.


Flak 37 mounted on the Sondergeschützanhänger (gun-trailer) 202.

From 1940 onwards both the Flak 18 and Flak 36 on the Sonderanhaenger ( Trailer ) 201 were fitted with shields to give the crew protection when firing at ground targets. Late models of the Flak 36 were fitted with a an improved trailer mounting, the Sonderanhaenger 202, which was fitted with twin wheels. The towing vehicle used for both Flak 18 and Flak36 was the Sd.Kfz 7 Tractor, built by Krauss-Maffei. This well known type of half track vehicle had seating for the gun crew and lockers at the rear for ammunition and equipment.


Sd.Kfz 7 Tractor, built by Krauss-Maffei (Half-track)


A similar weapon to the Flak 36 was the Flak 37 which was specifically produced for the anti aircraft role, and was fitted with a new data transmission system known as Übertragungser 37, suitable only for high angle engagements.


88mm Flak 37 on a special chassis


Both the Flak 18 and Flak 36 had a high angle range of 35,100 ft. and a horizontal range of 16,200 yards. They could fire high explosive (HE), armor piercing (AP) or smoke shells. The weight of the projectile was 20 lbs. (HE) or 21 lbs. (AP and smoke). Muzzle velocity was 2690 ft. per second with HE and 2620 ft. with AP.



In traveling order on the special trailer 201, the Flak 18 and 36 weighed 7 tons. Rate of fire was 15-20 rounds per minute.

The crew was 11 men, consisting of layer, trainer, breech worker, fuse setter, and five ammunition supply numbers, plus the detachment commander and the tractor driver. When firing against ground targets two ammunition numbers became the range and deflection setters respectively, and the fuse setter became an ammunition number. The senior ammunition number was in charge of ammunition supply and was the detachment second-in-command.


The famous 8.8 cm Flak 36 in action as anti-tank gun in Russia, 1942. Note the use of the stereoscopic range finder at right, which made possible for the 8.8 cm Flak 36 guns to hit targets at record ranges.


There were three methods of fire control, by radar or predictor though a data transmission system for AA fire, direct laying through the sights for the anti-tank role, and indirect fire in conjunction with a range-finder.

Flak 36s made their debut in the notorious anti-tank role at Halfaya during the Battle of Sollum, June 1941. Firing from concealed positions at short range, they destroyed 123 out of 238 attacking British tank. The Germans claimed a British tank for every 20 "88" rounds fired at Halfaya.


Deadly 88mm's were emplaced like this at Halfaya Pass on Rommel's orders. When dug in with their barrels only a little above ground they were difficult to detect and destroy. The white rings painted on its barrel, like notches on a gunslinger's revolver, tally the number of British tanks the formidable gun has destroyed.


The Flak 18 and Flak 36 models were produced in by far the greatest numbers of all the 8.8 series of guns. However, there were several important derivatives, less well known now because the war situation when they appeared restricted production, and they were less often seen in action.

Most important of all was the 8.8 cm Flak 41, developed and produced by Rheinmetall-Borsig as a true multi-purpose anti-tank/anti-aircraft weapon. It overcame the inherent disadvantage of the Flak 18 and Flak 36 in the anti-tank role by virtually turning the upright mount arrangement of the earlier models through 90 degrees to reduce the silhouette.


Flak 41

The barrel was lengthened and strengthened and the muzzle velocity increased to 3110 feet per second. Rate of fire was about 20 rounds per minute. The gun could be fired from the traveling position with the cruciform side arms extended, and the twin-wheeled Sonderanhaenger 202 was standard with this weapon. The cruciform was wider than that of the Flak 36. The Flak 41 entered service in 1943 and saw some service in the last stages of the North Africa campaign.

Krupp had been developing a similar multi-purpose 8.8 cm gun, but the Rheinmetall design, the Flak 41, was ready first, so it was decided to keep the Krupp model specifically as an anti-tank ( Pak ) and tank gun, since the use of the "88" in the anti-tank role in the desert and on the Russian Front had shown the desirability for a purpose-designed weapon of this caliber. Designated Pak 43, the Krupp gun had muzzle brake and was mounted on a field platform transported on single-wheel bogies similar to those of the Sonderanhaenger 201.


Pak 43

This weapon was lower than the Flak 41 but, of course lacked high angle elevation. The gun could be either lowered and emplaced for firing or it could be fired from the traveling position so long as the traverse was kept within 30 degrees either side of the longitudinal girders of the field platform. The barrel of the Pak 43 was 21 feet 7¼ inches long and the muzzle velocity with AP40 shot was 3705 feet per second. With APCBC, the MV was 3280 fps, and with HE, the MV was 2460 fps. With APCBC, it could penetrate 130 mm of armor at 1500 yards. This weapon entered service also in 1943.

Due to the urgency of the war situation at this time - and the scarcity of materials - many of the Pak pieces were mounted on a single axle field carriage, in which guise they were designated Pak 43/41. The carriage was of the split trail type and was of composite construction. The trail legs were the type used on the carriage of the 10.5 cm Model 18 howitzer and the solid disc wheels were of the type used with the 15 cm medium field howitzer. Weight of this weapon was 9600 lbs.


Pak 43/41


The tank and panzerjager guns in the 88 mm series had approximately the same performance, and fired the same ammunition as the Pak 43 and Pak 43/41. Some of the barrels were of the monobloc piece construction, others of the divided monobloc barrel type. The third model was also a divided monobloc barrel construction but the length of the rifling was increased. This was the gun that formed the armament of the Royal Tiger, Elefant, Panzerjager and the Jagd Panther.


Two Tigers w/Porsche turrets



Elefant



Two 'Ferdinands'





FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links





TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 88mm; aaa; artillary; flak; freeperfoxhole; german; michaeldobbs; samsdayoff; veterans; wwi; wwii
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The German 'Eighty Eight' Combat History



The 88mm Flak anit-aircraft/anti-tank gun had it's first combat use in Spain 1936-39, often in dual-purpose role. Remained in service until the end of WWII.

The 88mm FLAK (FlugzeugAbwehrKannone) was originally intended exclusively for anti-aircraft defense. But at its very first use by the Legion Kondor volunteer unit in the Spanish Civil War, the Flak gun was also used on the front lines to attack bunkers and pinpoint targets with anti-tank shells, or against enemy troops, using time-fuze shells with high exploding points.


The 88mm Flak gun stood out on all fronts because of its mobility, rapid rate of fire (15 to 25 rounds per minute, depending on the crew's level of training) and number of possible uses. In Germany it was used to protect important military or supply sites from air attack.

At the fronts, the Flak guns were assigned other combat tasks such as antitank use, attacking bunkers, supporting troops under pressure in ground combat, and on the coasts they they even fired on sea targets and fought off attemps to land. In the Western campain in May 1940 the 88mm Flak was the only weapon that penetrated the heavy French tank armor.


An 88mm Flak in combat against French tanks during the Allied counter-attack near Arras


Great demands were made of Flak units, which accompanied the Panzer troops on their fast advances and received alternating air-protection and ground-combat assignments. That often meant moving their positions two or three times a day, including the work of trenching. Very often in this action, motorized units of the army had to be caught and passed, so as to guarantee gap-free protection against air attacks along the advance route.




Single 88mm Flak guns were also used by so-called Flak battle troups to wipe out enemy points of resistence. The Flak played an outstanding part in penetrating the Maginot line in 1940. In this action antitank shells were fired to put the crews of many concrete bunkers and armored turrets out of action. The best range for firing on bunkers proved to be 600 to 2000 meters.


Originally used as an antiaircraft weapon, the 88mm was turned against the armor of the Eighth Army with harrowing effect. "It could go through all our tanks like butter," one awed Englishman later attested.



T 34-85 in Heiligenbeil


In the Russian campaign the 88m Flak proved so succesful in action against the heavy Russian T34 and "Joseph Stalin" tanks that this gun, in somewhat modified form, was mounted on the chassis of the PzKpfw III and IV to make it more mobile for Russian road and off-road conditions. These tank destroyers were known by the names of Hornisse (Hornet) and Nashorn (Rhinoceros). Later a derivate of the German PzKpfw V was armed with this "high-speed cannon", resulting in the Jagdpanther, as was the PzKpfw VI as the "Elefant".


Since the anti-tank units could scarcely hold their own against the Russian T34 tanks with their 37mm Pak guns (known to the troops as "army door-knockers" because of their poor penetrating power ), 88mm Flak guns had to be used again and again, often as the only effective weapon available.

Later in the course of the war, well-trained and experienced Flak units were transferred more and more often from home defence to the fronts. They were often replaced by schoolboys or Hitler Youth members as Luftwaffe helpers (Flak aides), or by young people chosen by the SS from the occupied territories in the east.



Today's Educational Sources and suggestions for further reading:

wnet.suomi.net
www.strategyplanet.com
www.wargamer.com
www.autogallery.org
armyheritage.org

1 posted on 10/27/2003 3:55:43 AM PST by snippy_about_it
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To: All

2 posted on 10/27/2003 3:56:02 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Matthew Paul; mark502inf; Skylight; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Monday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
3 posted on 10/27/2003 3:56:48 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; bentfeather; Darksheare; All
GOOD MORNING EVERYONE AT THE FOXHOLE!!
I hope the weekend was a good one for y'all.

THANK YOU service men and women, past and present, for doing your part to keep our country Free.

Nothing like a laugh or two to start off the week.

Time to crawl off to bed. It's been a loooooong night. Have a wonderful morning, y'all.


4 posted on 10/27/2003 4:13:38 AM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: snippy_about_it

Lord, help me to love the way that You love
The humble, the lowly, the meek;
And help me to care the way that You care
For sinners, the outcasts, the weak. —Fitzhugh


5 posted on 10/27/2003 4:14:02 AM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole. It's a bit nippy here in Southwest Oklahoma. How's it going in your neck of the woods.
6 posted on 10/27/2003 4:20:15 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it

Connecticut class battleship
displacement. 16,000 t. length. 456'4"
beam. 76'10"
draft 24'6"
speed. 18 k.
complement. 827
armament. 4 12", 8 8", 12 7", 20 3", 4 21" tt.

The USS Connecticut (BB-18) was launched 29 September 1904 by New York Navy Yard; sponsored by Miss A. Welles, granddaughter of Gideon Welles, Secretary of the Navy during the Civil War; and commissioned 29 September 1906, Captain W. Swift in command.

Joining the Atlantic Fleet, Connecticut became flagship 16 April 1907, and later that month joined in the Presidential Fleet Review and other ceremonies opening the Jamestown Exposition. On 16 December 1907, still flagship, she sailed from Hampton Roads on the cruise round the world of the Great While Fleet. On 8 May 1908, the Atlantic Fleet joined the Pacific Fleet in San Francisco Bay for a review by the Secretary of the Navy, and the combined fleets continued their cruise, with Connecticut as flagship, showing the flag and bringing a show of American strength to many parts of the world. The fleet returned to Hampton Roads 22 February 1909.

Upon her return to the United States, Connecticut was modernized, receiving new "cage" masts, grey paint and numerous other alterations. Continuing to serve as flagship for the Atlantic Fleet until 1912, Connecticut cruised the east coast and the Caribbean from her base at Norfolk, conducting training and joining in ceremonial observances. Between 2 November 1910 and 17 March 1911, she made an extended cruise in European waters on a scouting problem. Between 1913 and 1915, Connecticut served with the Fourth Division, Atlantic Fleet, usually as flagship. Aside from a brief cruise to the Mediterranean in October and November 1913, she served in the Caribbean, protecting American citizens and interests during disturbances in Mexico and Haiti.

After repairs and temporary service as receiving ship at Philadelphia Navy Yard in 1916, Connecticut returned to full commission 3 October 1916 as flagship of the Fifth Division, Battleship Force, Atlantic Fleet. She operated along the east coast and in the Caribbean until the United States entered World War I. Based in the York River, Va., during the war, she exercised in Chesapeake Bay, and trained both midshipmen and gun crews for merchant ships. At the close of the war, she was fitted out for transport duty, and between 6 January and 22 June 1919 made four voyages to return troops from France. On 23 June 1919, she was reassigned, becoming flagship of Battleship Squadron 2, Atlantic Fleet.

In the summer of 1920, Connecticut sailed to the Caribbean and the west coast on a midshipman-Naval Reserve training cruise. The next summer found her in European ports on similar duty, and upon her return to Philadelphia 21 August 1921, was as signed as flagship Train, Pacific Fleet. She arrived at San Pedro, Calif., 28 October, and during the following year cruised along the west coast, taking part in exercises and commemorations. Entering Puget Sound Navy Yard 16 December 1922, Connecticut was decommissioned there 1 March 1923, and sold for scrapping 1 November 1923, in accordance with the Washington Treaty for the limitation of naval armaments.


Big Guns in Action!


7 posted on 10/27/2003 4:40:41 AM PST by aomagrat (IYAOYAS)
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To: radu
Good night radu. Love the fishing photo!
8 posted on 10/27/2003 4:43:06 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Good morning Mayor. Thank you for the coffee.
9 posted on 10/27/2003 4:43:28 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: E.G.C.
Morning EGC. Not too bad, in the 40's but better than Friday's freezing weather. Should be in the 50's
today.
10 posted on 10/27/2003 4:44:32 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: aomagrat
Good morning aomagrat.

You know I had no idea about the our involvement in the Caribbean in the early 1900s until I first read it on your classic ship posts. :)

Big guns in action - cool!

11 posted on 10/27/2003 4:47:47 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
This is incredible, I never knew an Aircraft carrier could turn so fast.


12 posted on 10/27/2003 4:48:26 AM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; radu; All
Good morning snippy, Sam and everyone!
13 posted on 10/27/2003 5:37:15 AM PST by Soaring Feather (~Poets' Rock the Boat~)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning snippy!

I'll tell you a TRUE 88 story.

My dad was a combat engineer in Italy (109 Eng. Combat Bn, 34th Infantry Div). His unit was moving up to try to save the last bridge over the Po before the Germans blew it. He was conferring with his captain as they were standing on a road leading down to the bridge. They were trying to convince a couple of tankers to move up and lay some covering fire down so they could get a little closer, but the Germans across the river had 88s.

As dad and his captain were standing there discussing this, an 88 shell moving more or less horizontally came down the road and passed BETWEEN them, went on down the road and exploded harmlessly in some woods about 100 yards away.

They kinda looked at each other, and dad said, "Guess they won't be bringing those tanks up."

14 posted on 10/27/2003 5:48:18 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: The Mayor
The USS Nimitz, amazing.
15 posted on 10/27/2003 5:48:52 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: bentfeather
Good morning feather.
16 posted on 10/27/2003 5:49:13 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on October 27:
1728 James Cook captain/explorer, discovered Sandwich Islands
1782 Niccolo Paganini Genoa It, composer/violin virtuoso (Princess Lucca)
1811 Issac Merrit Singer inventor (1st practical home sewing machine)
1844 Klas Arnoldson Sweden, politician/pacifist (Nobel 1908)
1858 Theodore Roosevelt (R) 26th Pres (1901-09) (Nobel 1906)
1872 Emily Post authority on social behavior, writer (Etiquette)
1889 Enid Bagnold novelist (1956 Award of Merit)
1910 Fred de Cordova film/TV producer (The Tonight Show)
1910 Jack Carson Manitoba Canada, actor (Star is Born, Mildred Pierce)
1911 Leif Erickson Calif, actor (Invaders from Mars, On the Waterfront)
1912 Conlon Nancarrow Texarkana Arkansas, composer (Soundings 4)
1914 Dylan Thomas Swansea, Wales, poet (Child's Christmas in Wales)
1917 Oliver Tambo leader of African National Congress
1918 Paul Dixon Earling Iowa, Ohio talk show host (Paul Dixon Show)
1918 Teresa Wright NYC, actress (Pride of the Yankees)
1920 Nanette Fabray San Diego Calif, actress (One Day at a Time)
1922 Ralph Kiner HR hitter (Pitts Pirates)/sportscaster (NY Mets)
1923 Roy Lichtenstein US, Pop art painter; painted comic book panels
1923 Ruby Dee Cleve Ohio, actress (Raisin in the Sun, Cat People)
1925 Jane Connell Oakland Calif, actress (Jane-Stanley, Bridget-Dumpling)
1925 Mary Kay Steans Glendale Calif, actress (Mary Kay & Johnny)
1926 HR Haldeman former White House Chief of Staff-Watergate figure
1928 Kyle Rote football half-back (NY Giants 1951-61)
1930 Bill George NFL linebacker (Chicago Bears, LA Rams)
1932 Jean-Pierre Cassel Paris France, actor (The Trout)
1932 Sylvia Plath American poet (Bell Jar)
1933 Floyd Cramer La, country pianist (Last Date, On the Rebound)
1939 John Cleese comedian/actor (Monty Python, Fawlty Towers)
1940 Lee Greenwood country singer (God Bless the USA)
1945 Carrie Snodgress Park Ridge Ill, actress (Diary of Mad Housewife)
1946 Peter Martins
1946 Steven R Nagel Canton Ill, USAF/astr (STS 51-G, STS 61-A, STS 37)
1946 Terry J Hart Pittsburgh Penn, astronaut (STS 41C)
1947 Terry Anderson AP correspondant/US hostage held in Lebanon (1984-)
1951 Jayne Kennedy Wash DC, actress (Penitentiary)
1953 Michael A Baker Memphis Tenn, Lt Cmdr USN/astronaut (STS 43)
1953 Peter Firth Bradford England, actor (Equus, Lifeforce, Tess)
1958 Simon Le Bon rocker (Duran, Duran-Hungry Like the Wolf)
1963 Deborah Moore London England, actress (Danielle=-Day of Our Lives)
1963 Marla Maples Dalton Ga, model/Donald Trump's main squeeze
1968 Kata Karkkainen Helsinki Finland, playmate (Dec, 1988)



Deaths which occurred on October 27:
0925 Rhazes, [Abu Bakr Mohammed ibn Zakarijja al-Razi), Persian, dies
1439 Albrecht II von Habsburg, king of Bohemia/Hungary/Germany, dies at 42
1553 Michael Servetus Spanish physician burns at stake for heresy
1955 Clark Griffith baseball player/manager (NY Yankees), dies at 85
1962 Fatso Marco comedian (Milton Berle Show), dies at 56
1964 Sammee Tong actor (Bachelor Father, Mickey), dies at 63
1972 Lew Parker actor (Lou Marie-That Girl), dies a day before turning 65
1987 Jean H‚lion artist/author, dies at 83
1988 S.B. Fuller founder of Fuller products, dies at 83
1990 Elliott Roosevelt son of FDR, dies at 80
1990 Xavier Cugart bandlander, dies from heart failure at 90
1996 Morey Amsterdam actor/comedian (Dick Van Dyke Show) at 74



Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1965 MOORE DENNIS A.---LITTLETON CO.
[02/12/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE IN 98]
1966 JOHNSON DALE A.---ELIZABETHTON TN.
1967 BLACK JON D.---JOHNSON CITY TN.
[02/16/68 RELEASED]
1967 CONNER LORENZA---CARTERSVILLE GA.
1967 FLYNN JOHN P.---CLEVELAND OH.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV,"DECEASED MARCH 5, 1997"]
1967 STIRM ROBERT L.---SAN FRANCISCO CA.
[03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1967 TEMPERLY RUSSELL E.---BOSTON MA.
03/14/73 RELEASED BY DRV, ALIVE AND WELL 98]
1968 EDMUNDS ROBERT CLIFTON JR---RICHMOND VA.
[REMAINS RETURNED 06/88]
1969 HERRICK JAMES W.---PANDORA IA.
1972 ANDERSON EVELYN---QUINCY MI.
NOT ON OFFICIAL DIA LIST, REM RET 11/72]
1972 KOSIN BEATRICE---FORT WASHAKIE WY.
[NOT ON OFFICIAL DIA LIST.]
1972 MATTIX SAMUEL A.---CENTRALIA WA.
[03/28/73 RELEASED BY PL]
1972 OPPEL LLOYD D.---CANADA
03/28/73 RELEASED BY PL, ALIVE 99]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
0097 To placate the Praetorians of Germany, Nerva of Rome adopts Trajan, the Spanish-born governor of lower Germany.
625 Honorius I begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1644 2nd Battle at Newbury: King Charles I beats parliamentary armies
1787 Federalist letters start appearing in NY newspapers
1795 Treaty of San Lorenzo, provides free navigation of Mississippi
1809 President James Madison orders the annexation of the western part of West Florida. Settlers there had rebelled against Spanish authority
1858 RH Macy & Co opens 1st store, (6th Ave-NYC) Gross receipts $1106
1871 Boss Tweed (William Macy Tweed), Democratic leader of Tammany Hall, arrested after NY Times exposed his corruption
1880 Theodore Roosevelt marries Alice Lee, on his 22nd birthday
1886 Musical fantasy "Night on Bald Mountain," performed in Russia
1893 Hurricane hits coast between Savannah Ga & Charleston SC
1896 1st Pali Road completed in Hawaii (winds so strong streams flow UP!)
1904 World's 1st subway, the IRT (Interborough Rapid Transit), opens in NYC, subway/bus fare is set at one nickel
1913 Pres Wilson says US will never attack another country
1916 1st published reference to "jazz" appears (Variety)
1919 Axeman of New Orleans claims last victim
1920 League of Nations moves headquarters in Geneva
1920 Westinghouse radio station in East Pittsburgh, KDKA begins
1922 1st commemoration of Navy Day
1924 The Uzbek SSR forms
1925 Water skis patented by Fred Waller
1931 Chuhei Numbu of Japan, sets then long jump record at 26' 2¬"
1938 DuPont announces its new synthetic fiber will be called "nylon"
1941 Chicago Daily Tribune editorialize there will not be war with Japan
1947 "You Bet Your Life", with Groucho Marx, premieres on ABC radio
1948 Israel recaptures Nizzanim in the Negev
1954 B O Davis Jr becomes 1st black general in USAF
1954 Walt Disney's 1st TV show, "Disneyland," premieres on ABC
1959 Rare Pacific hurricane kills 2,000 in Western Mexico
1960 Singer Ben E King records "Spanish Harlem" & "Stand By Me"
1961 American Basketball League starts play
1961 Outer Mongolia & Mauritania become the 102nd & 103rd members of UN
1967 4 people from Baltimore pour blood on selective service records
1967 Expo '67 closes in Montreal, Canada
1969 Ralph Nader sets up a consumer organization known as Nader's Raiders
1969 St Vincent & the Grenadines gains associated status with Britain
1971 Republic of the Congo becomes Republic of Za‹re
1971 Steve Garvey weds Cynthia Truhan
1972 Golden Gate National Recreation Area created
1973 1st time Islanders beat the Rangers-3-2
1973 Alabama sets offensive record (828 yds), beats Virginia Tech 77-6
1977 NASA launches space vehicle S-200
1978 Begin & Sadat win the Nobel Peace prize
1978 President Carter signs Hawkins-Humphrey full employment bill
1979 Islanders score 2 goals within 6 seconds 3 goals within 44 seconds
1979 St Vincent & the Grenadines becomes independent of UK (Nat'l Day)
1979 Voluntary Euthanasia Society publishes how-to-do-it suicide guide
1980 Dave Gryllis sets world bicycle speed record of 94.37 kph
1981 Andrew Young, former UN Ambassador, elected mayor of Atlanta, Georgia
1982 China announces its population at 1 billion people plus
1982 IBM ROM is capable of EGA graphics
1984 Wash State's Rueben Mayes sets col football rec of 357 yards rushing
1985 KC Royals beat St Louis Cards, 4 games to 3 in 82nd World Series
1985 Thieves steal 9 paintings, including 5 Monet's & 2 Renoir's
1986 NY Mets beat Boston Red Sox, 4 games to 3 in 83rd World Series
1986 Paul McCartney release "Pretty Little Head"
1987 South Korean voters overwhelmingly approved a new constitution
1988 "ET" released to home video (14 million presold)
1988 Larry Flynt paid hitman $1M to kill Hefner, Guccione & Sinatra
1991 Minn Twins beat Altanta Braves 1-0 in 10 to win the 8th World Series in 7




Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Cuba : Discovery Day (1492)
Iran : Imam Reza's Birthday
St Vincent Islands : Statehood Day (1969)
US : Navy Day (1775)
US : Mother-in-Law's Day (Sunday)
New Zealand : Labour Day-last Monday in October (Monday)
US some states : Veterans Day (Monday)
US : Francis E Willard Day-temperance day (Friday)
National Magic Week (Day 3)
Computer Learning Month
National Seafood Month


Religious Observances
RC : Comm of St Frumentius, bishop; founded Ethiopian church
Feast of St. Claudia, Pilate's wife (Eastern Church).


Religious History
1553 In Switzerland, Spanish physician Michael Servetus, 42, convicted for promulgating anti-Trinitarianism, was condemned for heresy and blasphemy, and burned at the stake in Geneva.
1771 Landing at Philadelphia, pioneer bishop Francis Asbury, 26, first arrived in America. He had been sent from England by John Wesley to oversee Methodism in the American colonies, and stayed all of his remaining 45 years, till his death in 1816.
1889 The first Lithuanian Church in America was organized in Plymouth (near Wilkes-Barre), PA. Rev. Alexander Burba was its first pastor.
1963 One month before his death at age 65, English apologist C.S. Lewis wrote in a letter: 'Autumn is really the best of the seasons; and I'm not sure that old age isn't the best part of life.'
1977 American missionary and apologist Francis Schaeffer wrote in a letter: 'The unforgivable sin is not something done once and for all and which when done is without remedy. it is the constant, unremitting resistance of the gracious work of the Holy Spirit for salvation.'

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



Thought for the day :
"The reluctance to put away childish things may be a requirement of genius."


Children's stories that never made it...
Teddy: the Elf with the Detached Retina.
Curious George and the High-Voltage Fence.
Charles Manson Bedtime Stories.
The Little Engine that Could Becomes intoxicated and Kills Civillians.


Murphys Law of the day...(Military Laws)
Don't be conspicuous. In the combat zone, it draws fire. Out of the combat zone, it draws sergeants.


Astounding fact #197...
"Hang On Sloopy" is the official rock song of Ohio.
17 posted on 10/27/2003 5:50:00 AM PST by Valin (A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All
Mornin' y'all! I'm afraid it's Monday again. :(
18 posted on 10/27/2003 5:51:31 AM PST by SCDogPapa (In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Oh my!!

What a great story, geez that must have been a shock, I think I would have been speechless while looking for a foxhole. LOL.

Thanks for sharing your dad's experience with us.
19 posted on 10/27/2003 5:53:40 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin
Astounding fact #197... "Hang On Sloopy" is the official rock song of Ohio.

I knew that. :)

20 posted on 10/27/2003 5:54:25 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SCDogPapa
Mornin'.

Dang Mondays anyway. ;)
21 posted on 10/27/2003 5:55:34 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning Snippy.

What a pleasant surprise! No wonder you wouldn't tell me what the thread was about. The 88 was an excellent weapon and turned out to be ,IMHO, the best tank killer of the war. There were few allied tanks that could survive a hit from it.

Good job on covering both uses of this gun.





Flak was deadly when on target, all the bombers could do was fly straight and level during the bomb run, image the courage that took.







This B-17 took a direct flak hit in the waist over Debrecen, Hungary which killed three crewmen and wounded two others. Threatening to come apart in mid-air the pilot nursed it home to a safe landing, but the weakened fuselage collapsed on touchdown.
Text and photo source: Air Classics magazine, July 1972



On October 15, 1944 "Little Miss Mischief" took a flak hit on the left side near the ball turret. The blast threw the right waist gunner to the floor, with shrapnel in his foot. Incredibly, the ball turret gunner's only injuries were the loss of a little toe and frostbite from the high altitude.
SOURCE: B-17 In Action by Squadron/Signal Publications



1st Lt. Lawrence DeLancey managed to get his B-17 back to England after a direct hit by flak killed two of his crew over Cologne, Germany.
Source: Air War Against Hitler's Germany by Stephen W. Sears



The togglier, Lt L.J. Clements, was killed by the 88mm shell that took the nose piece off 96BG's 43-39107 over Hengesty, March 23, 1945. The bomber was force-landed at Woensdrecht airfield.
Source: Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger A. Freeman



"Hang the Expense Again III" was seen heavily damaged, going down over France. The pilot, however, was able to bring it out of a dive and struggled back to his home field. The blast damage blew the tail gunner out of the aircraft but he survived the incident.
SOURCE: Flying Forts by Martin Caiden, additional material by Ray Cary

22 posted on 10/27/2003 7:32:39 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: radu
Morning Radu. Love the fishing picture.
23 posted on 10/27/2003 7:35:36 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: snippy_about_it
Present!
24 posted on 10/27/2003 7:35:36 AM PST by manna
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To: The Mayor
Morning Mayor. Looks like our last day of nice weather for us. Your coffee's gonna be real welcome on those chilly mornings.
25 posted on 10/27/2003 7:37:34 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: manna
Morning manna.
26 posted on 10/27/2003 7:37:51 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor
Crikey, Look at the angle of that turn.

I hope the tractors on the flight deck are tied down real good. :)
27 posted on 10/27/2003 7:38:15 AM PST by Johnny Gage (Have you ever imagined a world without hypothetical situations?)
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To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C.

Supposed to be 70 and sunny today and then back to the 50's and rain starting tomorrow.
28 posted on 10/27/2003 7:38:25 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SAMWolf
Thank you SAM.

What a good idea to show pictures of the damaged caused by the 88.

That's why you're the master and I'm but the grasshopper, well, foxette :)

29 posted on 10/27/2003 7:39:54 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: aomagrat
Man! I love seeing those big guns go off (Even if they only are 8 inch)
30 posted on 10/27/2003 7:40:39 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: radu
Great fishing picture! Thanks for sharing.
31 posted on 10/27/2003 7:57:40 AM PST by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: snippy_about_it
The 88 could make holes in almost any Allied Armor
















32 posted on 10/27/2003 8:00:16 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: The Mayor
WOW! Must be those outboard Mercs they added. ;-)
33 posted on 10/27/2003 8:01:16 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Great story! And a typical G.I. remark.

The 88 had an almost flat trajectory, one of the things that made it so deadly. The shot also hit before the sound of the gun firing was heard.
34 posted on 10/27/2003 8:03:38 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: snippy_about_it
Thanks for today's post, snippy.
35 posted on 10/27/2003 8:03:56 AM PST by Samwise (There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.)
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To: Samwise
You're welcome Samwise. Good morning.
36 posted on 10/27/2003 8:09:03 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip and Sam~

Fascinating read. I had seen the white rings on different FLAKS from actual footage (History Channel), but never knew why. And now I know! Thank you for not forcing us to properly pronounce the full name. ;^)

37 posted on 10/27/2003 8:09:05 AM PST by w_over_w ( . . . continue on next page.)
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To: SAMWolf
Wow. Those tanks don't look too good after the hits from the 88's.

Thanks for the pics.

38 posted on 10/27/2003 8:12:54 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: bentfeather
Good Morning Feather.
39 posted on 10/27/2003 8:13:44 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SAMWolf

"I'll let ya know if I find th' one wot invented the 88."

40 posted on 10/27/2003 8:14:04 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . sed, ut scis, quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?. . .)
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To: Valin
"It is difficult to make our material condition better by the best law, but it is easy enough to ruin it by bad laws."


41 posted on 10/27/2003 8:18:00 AM PST by w_over_w (It's nice to be nice to the nice. -- Maj. Frank Burns)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Good morning, all!

Snow in the forecast here today, so I'd much rather read another good thread about a superlative weapon.

Sam (and Snippy), how much do you know off the top of your head about Operation Citadel? I saw some information on TV last night that quite frankly I don't believe but I have to see how much research I want to do on it.

42 posted on 10/27/2003 8:21:28 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: Valin
Oooops!

1858 Theodore Roosevelt (R) 26th Pres (1901-09) (Nobel 1906)

43 posted on 10/27/2003 8:22:07 AM PST by w_over_w (It's nice to be nice to the nice. -- Maj. Frank Burns)
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To: w_over_w
Thank you for not forcing us to properly pronounce the full name.

The day is still young. LOL!!!

44 posted on 10/27/2003 8:23:45 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin
1939 John Cleese comedian/actor (Monty Python, Fawlty Towers)



John Cleese Minister of Silly Walks

And now the new "Q' for James Bond


45 posted on 10/27/2003 8:25:13 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SCDogPapa
Morning SCDogPapa. Yeah, those nasty Monday's alwaays seem to show up at the same time each week. It's getting pretty old!
46 posted on 10/27/2003 8:26:10 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: snippy_about_it
You know everything. ;-)
47 posted on 10/27/2003 8:26:40 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: manna
Hi Manna!


48 posted on 10/27/2003 8:28:54 AM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: Colonel_Flagg
Hi Colonel.

SAM knows LOTS about it. I'm sure he'll chime in shortly.

Me, all I know is I got whooped good by none other than the french this weekend.

at Flavion;

(SAM) -french 4264
(snippy) -German 434

And he offered to take the french to give me an edge. ROTFLOL!!!

49 posted on 10/27/2003 8:28:56 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Oh, dear. You have my sympathies. Try to keep your chin up ;)
50 posted on 10/27/2003 8:30:30 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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