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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The USS PUEBLO HiJacking (1/23/1968) - Nov. 4th, 2003
http://home.sandiego.edu/~sgreer/pueblo.html ^

Posted on 11/04/2003 12:00:24 AM PST by SAMWolf

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Captivity of the Pueblo Crew


The crew arrived early in the morning of 24 January at the first compound in Pyongyang and were placed into separate rooms. The crew nicknamed the first compound building "the Barn." It was a big masonry building containing dark, dingy corridors and high ceilings. There were many four-panel doors with transoms. The lights were only small bare lightbulbs hanging from the ceilings. The walls and floors were marble-like; the heat inside the building was turned off and the windows were all covered. The entire building smelled horribly of hay, urine, and feces and to make the whole situation worse, sounds of men yelling, screaming, stomping, and pounding echoed throughout.


Poor-quality photograph of USS Pueblo (AGER-2) crewmembers at a press conference in North Korea, taken sometime after they and their ship were captured off Wonsan on 23 January 1968.
Pueblo's Commanding Officer, Commander Lloyd M. Bucher, is standing in center.


The individual rooms were no better than the rest of the building. They were twelve feet by twenty feet with twelve foot ceilings. There were four low five foot long wooden bed frames for shorter men than almost all of the Pueblo's men. The pillows and mattresses were made of rice husks and no blanket was provided. Pyongyang suffered severe winters and the room only had a small hissing radiator that barely worked. The windows were covered with glued newspaper and the walls were so dirty it was difficult to tell that they were white.

While the crew was held captive, they had to endure immense torture, both mentally and physically. There were interrogations that involved severe beatings causing broken bones and the like. Due to the insufficient medical care, some crewmembers to this day bear the effects of the injuries received in captivity as well as in the initial hijacking. Some examples are being forced to wait over a week for treatment of open wounds, all the while suffering from infection and even insect infestation within the wound; performing surgical procedures with primitive equipment and no anesthetic, such as the arbitrary removal of tonsils; cutting away flesh and stitching up wounds without anesthetic; and being served water that caused dysentery and causing severe weight loss. In addition to unclean water some of the food the crew was served and had no choice but to eat consisted of turnips, parts of slaughtered pigs, including fatty skin with hair sometimes, the occasional eyeball, rotting fish nicknamed "sewer trout", "watered down pig fat soup, rice, bread... and dead flies... worms, maggots, nails, hair, teeth and anything else the NK’s thought to be nutritional... an apple and goats milk occasionally." Besides the unhealthy food and water, the crew was only given the opportunity to use the restroom twice a day and bathe every six weeks. However, the only clothing the crew had was the uniform worn when captured and some of them had bullet or schrapnel holes in them with dried blood and flesh on them. About the only luxury afforded the crew was cigarettes and matches.



After about six weeks at the first location, the crew was moved to a second prisoner compound, dubbed "the Country Club," where they were told they would stay until the United States apologized. The crewmembers were assigned eight to a room except the officers were assigned separate rooms.

In addition to the physical beatings and torture the crew endured, they also underwent extreme psychological torture. Some examples are being forced to walk around with heads down to indicate shame for their actions; being required to stand at attention when a North Korean soldier entered the room; reading and watching movies full of North Korean, anti-American propoganda; and occasionally being forced to give the impression that the crew was being treated fairly through media exposure of the crew partaking in fun activities such as sports. The crew learned that the North Koreans did not know what showing the middle finger signified in the United States so they decided to use that to their advantage in future propoganda photos. The crew is seen in several pictures showing their middle fingers to the camera to indicate that the whole thing was a lie and that they were not being treated properly. The men told the North Korean guards that the gesture was a Hawaiian good luck sign. In one instance, a photo that was published in the 18 October 1968 issue of Time magazine showed several crewmembers posing for the camera while discreetly showing the "Hawaiian good luck sign."


USS Pueblo Crew during North Korean propaganda Broadcast


In early December, the North Koreans finally figured out what the finger meant and began to take revenge upon the men; this began a period referred to as Hell Week. Hell Week actually lasted 10 days and the beatings and injuries sustained were more severe than at any other time in captivity. This was going on at the same time as negotiations to free the men and when an agreement had been reached, the beatings stopped very suddenly and the crew received medical attention to prepare them for release and the media storm that would follow. The crew used many examples like this to exert their resistance to their captors without them knowing, which amounted to a mental victory despite their physical defeat. Another example of the psychological abuse the crew suffered was the time that the crew was given pen knives and forced to get on their knees and cut the grass in the yard of the compound. The grass was used later as a salad and eaten by the crew.


front row: Howard E. Bland (deceased July 25, 1992), Donald R. Peppard, James D. Layton, Monroe O. Goldman back row: Ronald L. Berens, Harry Iredale, William D. Scarborough (deceased February 26, 1970), Charles B. Law (deceased September 25, 2001)


The North Koreans worked on CDR Bucher separately to try to get the ship's commanding officer to sign a confession and read a pre-written apology. In an attempt to make him admit to wrongdoing, a gun was held to Bucher's head and dry-fired but he did not give in. Instead of being shot, Bucher was beaten severely. The next night, Bucher was driven to an unknown location and taken to "a dark and dirty basement [where] he was shown a body hanging on a wall. The body, purported to be a South Korean spy, was alive but hardly recognizable. The head was badly swollen, one eye hung out of [its] socket and broken protruding bones were evident. The Korean Senior Colonel in charge said 'this is how we treat spies.'" Bucher still did not crack. However, after being returned to his cell, he was threatened with the lives of his men, starting with the youngest, who was brought into his cell. In order to spare the lives of his men, Bucher finally gave in and agreed to sign and read the confession for the North Korean media to tape and broadcast. Bucher would sign several versions of the document; each was revised and more incriminating wording against the United States. During his reading of the document, Bucher's speech and demeanor were filled with so much sarcasm and play on English words and language, it would be obvious to Americans listening that he did not write the speech and that he was not serious about his confession. The confession appeared in the Pyongyang Times on 1 February. The captain was not the only man to agree to sign the confession; by early February, every officer assigned capitulated to the North Korean's beatings, on several occasions being beaten unconscious.



After the confessions had been signed and broadcast for all of North Korea to hear, the guards' treatment of the crew improved; it was still well short of humane, but better than before, nonetheless. Meanwhile, the whole time the men were being held, the U.S. was trying everything it could diplomatically to get them released. Despite America's desire to avoid another conflict in Asia while it was fully entangled in Vietnam, President Lyndon Johnson once told an aide that he would "do anything to get those men back - including meeting naked in the middle of the street at high noon." Johnson's Vice President, Hubert Humphrey, tried to include the release in negotiations with Vietnam, suggesting that the two were related; he was soon assured they were not. Since North Korea rejected any affiliation with either the United Nations or the World Court, the international avenue could not be used either. Johnson even appealed to the Soviet Union but it refused to take a public stance against its communist ally. United States Secretary of State Dean Rusk, among others, was involved in over nine months of Military Armistice Commission (MAC) talks to achieve their release.


Governor Ronald Reagan welcomes Commander Bucher Home


Pyongyang would not cooperate until Washington met the three A's: admit, apologize, and assure. On 23 December 1968, exactly eleven months from the day the 82 surviving crew members were captured and after 28 meetings discussing the Pueblo, the North Korean document was signed by the U.S. MAC representative Major General Gilbert Woodward. Before signing the North Korean-prepared document, Woodward submitted a document disavowing any wrongdoing on behalf of the United States. The document also stated that the United States does not apologize and the only reason for signing the North Korean document was to free the crew of the Pueblo and only for that reason. After Woodward signed the document, the North Korean representative signed a written statement promising to release the crew within two hours.
1 posted on 11/04/2003 12:00:26 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: snippy_about_it; PhilDragoo; Johnny Gage; Victoria Delsoul; Darksheare; Valin; bentfeather; radu; ..
Release of the USS Pueblo Crew



Commander Bucher is released


At the same time the crew's release was being finalized at the Joint Security Area in Panmunjom, the men were being transported there from Pyongyang. After an overnight trip, the Pueblo crew arrived at Sachon Bridge, which crossed the Military Demarcation Line. Sachon Bridge was known to Americans since the Korean War as the Bridge of No Return. After waiting in buses with covered windows and being given copies of the letter of apology to read, Commander Bucher was the first to be taken to the bridge. At 11:30 A.M., Bucher was told to cross the bridge and not look back. Following him was the coffin containing the corpse of Duane Hodges. The rest of the crewmembers were released in thirty-second intervals while the entire crews' taped confessions were broadcast over loudspeakers. The men were flown by helicopter to an Army hospital near Seoul. The next day, 24 December, the crew landed at Miramar Naval Air Station in San Diego for an emotional reunion with family and friends.

INVESTIGATION



A Navy Yeoman Second Class holds a U.S. flag, to be used to drape the coffin of Seaman Duane Hodges, who was killed when USS Pueblo (AGER-2) was captured by the North Koreans off Wonsan on 23 January 1968. Seaman Hodges' body was returned to American custody with the ship's other crewmen, at the Korean Demilitarized Zone, 23 December 1968.


On 27 December, Admiral John Hyland of CINCPACFLT ordered a "routine" Court of Inquiry comprised of five admirals headed by Vice Admiral Harold Bowen, Jr. to look into the events of the seizure. Amid much public opposition, the navy appeared to be on a witch hunt for CDR Bucher to hold him responsible for surrendering his ship and his men. The only positive attribute of the inquiry was that it provided a forum in which Bucher could voice his concerns about the inqdequate material readiness of the ship and the refusal by the upper echelon to properly prepare the ship, the crew, and a contingency plan for the mission. Following with the scapegoat theory, CDR Bucher was charged with violating a Navy regulation that he allowed his ship to searched and personnel taken captive by representatives of a foreign state. During one recess, Pueblo's Executive Officer Tim Harris slipped Bucher a dated note that read, "Captain, we've made it this far together and we'll finish it together," signed,"Bucher's Bastards." After nearly two months and 104 witnesses, the panel decided that CDR Bucher did not try hard enough and that he and Stephen Harris would be court martialed. The admirals also stated that except for eleven men, the crew's performance was unimpressive.


Bucher's Bastards note


A few weeks later, ADM Hyland reviewed the court's findings and contemplated a lengthy court-martial along with more public opposition and sent his recommendation to the Secretary of the Navy, John Chafee, to issue letters of admonition instead of a court-martial. Chafee released his final decision to not issue any punishment to any of the men, "that they have suffered enough, and further punishment would not be justified." The House of Representatives also undertook its own investigation that produced similar results.



Additional Sources:

www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Bunker
www.chafee.navy.mil
www.history.navy.mil
www.anzwers.org
www.usspueblo.org

2 posted on 11/04/2003 12:01:20 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: All
Recent Information Regarding the USS Pueblo


AWARDS



Commander Lloyd M. Bucher, USN, former Commanding Officer of USS Pueblo (AGER-2)Receives the Purple Heart medal for injuries he received while he was a prisoner of the North Koreans, in ceremonies held in 1969, shortly after he and his crew were released.
Pueblo and her crew were captured off Wonsan, North Korea, on 23 January 1968. The crew were released on 23 December 1969.


The men of the USS Pueblo were very brave and endured more than most people could only in their nightmares, yet the U.S. government was reluctant to recognize them for their gallantry. Following the release of the crewmembers, the Navy gave out many awards to people that were involved in the release of the crew and their care but the only award that was given out to the crew itself was the Purple Heart for those wounded in action. Additional military and civilian awards were given in the early 1970s. After the creation of a Prisoner of War medal in 1985, the Pueblo was specifically unauthorized to receive it since the U.S. was not technically at war with North Korea (although the Korean War was ended in armistice). In 1990, after much lobbying by CDR Bucher, among others, and an act of Congress, the POW medal was presented to every crewmember, including civilians, which was against Navy policy to issue military awards to non-military personnel. The sole casualty of the incident, Duane Hodges, was issued the Silver Star posthumously

STATUS OF THE SHIP



Sergeant Robert J. Chicca, U.S. Marine Corps, a USS Pueblo (AGER-2) crewman, greets his wife, Ann Marie, on his arrival at Naval Air Station Miramar, California, 24 December 1968. Pueblo's crew had been released from captivity by the North Korean government on 23 December. They had been captured off Wonsan on 23 January 1968.
Photographed by PHC V.O. McColley, USN.


Although North Korea released the crew, it did not return the ship itself. The ship remained in Wonsan for over thiry years serving various purposes, but its main purpose was being used as a propaganda piece for the North Koreans to exploit and boast its victory over the United States. During that thirty years on North Korea's east coast, it is also possible that Pyongyang provided the opportunity for the Soviet Union to examine the classified material and equipment. The North Koreans maintained the ship well and never repaired the many holes in the hull and superstructure from the attack.

RELOCATION



USS Pueblo on Taedong River in Pyongyang, North Korea


Sources indicate that in December 1998, the Pueblo was relocated. It was not just moved to another location on the east coast as it did many times in the thirty years after its capture; it was relocated to the Taedong River in Pyongyang, on the west coast of North Korea. Pyongyang knew the military and political risks it was taking in taking the ship in international waters and around the Korean peninsula, so it was likely disguised and loaded with explosives to prevent it from being re-captured. The operational status of the Pueblo is unknown but additional sources suggest that Pueblo was towed around the Korean peninsula and did not make the journey under its own power. It is believed that North Korea moved the ship to its current location to serve as a trophy as well as a tourist museum, especially since the site is also where another American ship, the General Sherman, was sunk in 1866. To add to the authenticity of the tour, the guide is Senior Colonel Kim Joong Rok, the commander of the first boarding party when it was hijacked.


Kim Joong Rok


Due to the fact that the USS Pueblo was never formally decommissioned, it is still held by the U.S. Navy as an active ship in commission. Many attempts by Pueblo crewmembers and Congressmen have been made to get the Pueblo or its flag repatriated to the U.S. but have obviously been unsuccessul. Hopefully, when North-South Korean summit meetings and unification talks progress, Pyongyang will eventually comply with these requests and give the surviving crewmembers, as well as those interested in the incident, some sense of closure.


3 posted on 11/04/2003 12:01:55 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: All

4 posted on 11/04/2003 12:02:32 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: All
Veterans Day 2003
PDN News Desk ^ comwatch

November is Here - Veterans Day is right around the corner.

It only takes a few minutes to write a letter to the kids and share a story of why you served.

If you aren't a Veteran then share your thoughts on why it is important to remember our Veterans on Veterans Day.
 

It's an opportunity for us to support our troops, our country and show appreciations for our local veterans. It's another way to counter the Anti-Iraq campaign propaganda.  Would you like to help?  Are there any VetsCoR folks on the Left Coast?  We have a school project that everyone can help with too, no matter where you live.  See the end of this post for details.


Three Northern California events have been scheduled and we need help with each:
 
Friday evening - November 7th Veterans in School (An Evening of Living History, A Veterans Day Ice Cream Social)
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003c.htm
 
Saturday - 11 a.m. November 8th: Veterans Day Parade (PDN & Friends parade entry)
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003b.htm
 
Sunday November 9, 2003 Noon to 3:00 PM Support our Troops & Veterans Rally prior to Youth Symphony Concert
http://www.patriotwatch.com/V-Day2003d.htm
 
Each of the WebPages above have a link to e-mail a confirmation of your interest and desire to volunteer.  These are family events and everyone is welcome to pitch in.  We'd really appreciate hearing from you directly via each these specific links.  This way, we can keep you posted on only those projects you want to participate in.

Veterans in School - How you can help if you're not close enough to participate directly. If you are a veteran, share a story of your own with the children.  If you have family serving in the military, tell them why it's important that we all support them. Everyone can thank them for having this special event.  Keep in mind that there are elementary school kids. 

Help us by passing this message around to other Veteran's groups.  I have introduced VetsCoR and FreeperFoxhole to a number of school teachers.  These living history lessons go a long way to inspire patriotism in our youth.  Lets see if we can rally America and give these youngsters enough to read for may weeks and months ahead.  If we can, we'll help spread it to other schools as well.

  Click this link to send an email to the students.

5 posted on 11/04/2003 12:02:53 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: All
Bugles Across America
http://www.buglesacrossamerica.org/


Bugles Across America, NFP was founded in 2000 by Tom Day, when Congress passed legislation stating Veterans had a right to at least 2 uniformed military people to fold the flag and play taps on a CD player. Bugles Across America was begun to take this a step further, and in recognition of the service these Veterans provided their country, we felt that every Veteran deserved a live rendition of taps played by a live Bugler. To this end, we are actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families

Our Organization now has 1500 bugler volunteers located in all 50 states and growing number overseas. Since the Department of Veterans Affairs is expecting more than 1/2 million veterans to pass every year for the next 7 years, Bugles Across America is ALWAYS recruiting new volunteers.

Bugler Volunteers can be male or female. They can play a traditional bugle with no valves, or they can perform the ceremony on a Trumpet, Cornet, Flugelhorn, or a 1, 2 or 3 valved bugle. The bugler can be of any age as long as they can play the 24 notes of Taps with an ease and style that will do honor to both the Veterans, their families, and the burial detail performing the service.

Thanks quietolong

6 posted on 11/04/2003 12:03:16 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Darksheare; Johnny Gage; Light Speed; All
GOOD MORNING ALL AT THE FOXHOLE!!

THANK YOU troops and veterans for answering the call to duty to the USA!!


7 posted on 11/04/2003 12:40:09 AM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Darksheare; Johnny Gage; Light Speed; All
GOOD MORNING ALL AT THE FOXHOLE!!

THANK YOU troops and veterans for answering the call to duty to the USA!!


8 posted on 11/04/2003 12:45:03 AM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: radu
Good Morning Radu.
9 posted on 11/04/2003 12:50:03 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Darksheare; Johnny Gage; Light Speed; All
AAAAAAARGH!! I thought this would stop after they worked on the site last night! I did NOT hit post twice! LOL!
10 posted on 11/04/2003 1:17:56 AM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: Matthew Paul; mark502inf; Skylight; The Mayor; Prof Engineer; PsyOp; Samwise; comitatus; ...
.......FALL IN to the FReeper Foxhole!

.......Good Tuesday Morning Everyone!


If you would like added to our ping list let us know.
11 posted on 11/04/2003 2:55:44 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole. How's it going?
12 posted on 11/04/2003 3:09:07 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: E.G.C.
Good morning EGC. We are supposed to hit a record high today of 80 degrees!

Why do I get the feeling we'll pay for these nice late fall days when winter hits? LOL.
13 posted on 11/04/2003 3:12:11 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: radu
Good morning radu.
14 posted on 11/04/2003 3:13:01 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks for posting this. I remember vaguely the Pueblo, but ever knew few details. Now, for the first time I understand what that was about. The U.S. government and the U.S. Navy in particular behaved dishonorably toward these men.
15 posted on 11/04/2003 3:50:13 AM PST by WaterDragon
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To: SAMWolf
Wonderful thread today SAM.

Thanks for providing the detail of what these men went through. I'll never understand why the powers that be try to railroad some of these commanders, it's shameful. There isn't always a need to place blame.

Reading about the food they were given was truly stomach churning and the treatment horrible. I say we go pay them back now and take out there nuke facilities while we're at it.

16 posted on 11/04/2003 4:02:13 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Present!
17 posted on 11/04/2003 4:30:19 AM PST by manna
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To: WaterDragon
Good morning WaterDragon, good to see you at the Foxhole.

They shouldn't even have considered any punishment against these men. I understand they needed an inquiry but to consider punishment was just shameful!
18 posted on 11/04/2003 4:40:21 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: manna
Good morning manna.
19 posted on 11/04/2003 4:41:19 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
USS Panay PR-5


During the "China Incident" airplanes from the Japanese Navy attacked and sank an American gunboat, the USS Panay. Captain James Hughes was following orders to assist the evacuation of American citizens and Standard Oil tankers up the Yangtze river from Nanking. The Japanese planes attacked at 1:27 pm Dec. 12, strafing and dropping bombs. Hughes ordered everyone to abandon ship. On shore, Hughes sent a radio message to the U.S. ambassador in Hankow 200 miles upriver. The survivors travelled Hohsien where they were picked up by the British gunboat HMS Bee and the Panay's sister ship USS Oahu, and taken to Shanghai where they boarded the USS Augusta Dec. 17 for the trip to the United States. The attack had been filmed by Norman Alley of Universal Newsreel and Eric Mayell of Fox Movietone News, and their film was widely seen in American theaters in January 1938.

USS Panay (PR-5) "was built by Kiangoan Dockyard and Engineering Works, Shanghai, China; launched 10 November 1927; sponsored by Mrs. Ellis S. Stone; and commissioned 10 September 1928, Lt. Comdr. James Mackey Lewis in command. Built for duty in the Asiatic Fleet on the Yangtze Patrol, Panay had as her primary mission the protection of American lives and property frequently threatened in the disturbances the 1920s and 30s brought to China struggling to modernize, to create a strong central government, and, later, to meet Japanese aggression. Throughout Panay's service, navigation on the Yangtze was constantly menaced by bandits and soldier outlaws of various stripes, and Panay and her sisters provided the protection necessary for American shipping and nationals, as other foreign forces did for their citizens. Often parties from Panay served as armed guards on American steamers plying the river. In 1931 her commanding officer, Lt. Comdr. R. A. Dyer, reported: "Firing on gunboats and merchant ships have (sic.) become so routine that any vessel traversing the Yangtze River, sails with the expectation of being fired upon." and "Fortunately, the Chinese appear to be rather poor marksmen and the ship has, so far, not sustained any casualties in these engagements."

As the Japanese moved through South China, American gunboats evacuated most of the Embassy staff from Nanking during November 1937. Panay was assigned as station ship to guard the remaining Americans and take them off at the last possible moment. They came on board 11 December and Panay moved upriver to avoid becoming involved in the fighting around the doomed capital. Three American merchant tankers sailed with her. The Japanese senior naval commander in Shanghai was informed both before and after the fact of this movement. On 12 December, Japanese naval aircraft were ordered by their Army to attack "any and all ships" in the Yangtze above Nanking. Knowing of the presence of Panay and the merchantmen, the Navy requested verification of the order, which was received before the attack began about 1327 that day and continued until Panay sank at 1554. Three men were killed, 43 sailors and 5 civilian passengers wounded. A formal protest was immediately lodged by the American ambassador. The Japanese government accepted responsibility, but claimed the attack unintentional. A large indemnity was paid 22 April 1938 and the incident officially settled. However, further deterioration of relations between Japan and the United States continued, as did provocations, many of them stemming from the Japanese Army whose extremists wished war with the United States." (text from Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships)

According to Charles Jellison, the reaction to the sinking of the Panay was mixed: "When news of the attack reached the U.S. capital, a furious President Franklin D. Roosevelt called for a strong response, 'a forceful gesture,' to put the Japanese on notice that the United States did not take such matters lightly Roosevelt and his cabinet discussed possible reprisals, including holding naval maneuvers in the China Sea or cutting off certain exports critical to Japan. It soon became apparent, though, that not many of the president's countrymen shared his outrage - or, if they did, they preferred not to make a big issue of it. Political leaders of both parties, including most of Roosevelt's cabinet, downplayed the incident and urged restraint, as did most of the press and the people at large. Nevertheless, President Roosevelt instructed Secretary of State Cordell Hull to deliver a letter of protest to the Japanese ambassador in Washington, advising the Japanese government that he was "deeply shocked and concerned." The president demanded an apology, full compensation for the attack, and assurances guaranteeing against a similar episode in the future. On December 24, the U.S. government received a formal apology from Tokyo. The Japanese government would, of course, punish those responsible for the 'grave blunder' caused by 'poor visibility' and pay full reparations. Washington officials prepared a bill of indemnification and sent it to Tokyo. Within four months the U.S. government received a check for $2,214,007.36. Meanwhile the Japanese press and public outdid themselves in expressions of friendship and 3 sympathy toward the American people. Tokyo schoolchildren contributed $10,000 worth of pennies to a fund for the victims of the Panay, and Americans in Japan were stopped on the streets and offered apologies. In what one Tokyo newspaper called 'an uttermost gesture,' a young Japanese woman appeared at the U.S. Embassy, cut off her hair, and presented it to the American ambassador.

"The newsreels reached American movie houses in mid-January Norman Alley was correct - between the two of them, he and Eric Mayell had missed very little. Viewers could see the Panay bobbing about at anchor in the middle of the river, minding its own business with its colors in full view, while from almost directly overhead the sun shone down through a cloudless sky. Suddenly Japanese planes swooped down on the ship. Time and again they came, savaging the Panay with bombs and machine-gun fire, while the movie cameras jumped about wildly with each explosion. The cameras had recorded scenes of the ship's devastation, the strafing of the lifeboats, the suffering of the wounded among the reeds, and the search planes circling overhead. There was no mistaking the meaning of it all - the Japanese had lied. There had been no visibility problem, no mistaken identity, and no 'grave blunder.' The Japanese had known what they were doing, all right, and they had done it with a vengeance. Even so, the American people were not exactly stirred to great wrath. They were clearly in no mood for the effects of another Maine or Lusitania. With the results of the Depression still being felt, people had enough to worry about at home without risking war with Japan over something that had happened half a world away. Instead the people chose to vent their anger, such as it was, against their own government. What was an American gunboat doing in China in the first place? Didn't the president and Congress know there was a war going on over there? What were they trying to do, make the Orient safe for democracy? All good questions, but they missed the point--a United States naval vessel had been deliberately and wantonly sunk by a foreign nation in time of peace. Shouldn't something be done about it? The answer was obviously "No." And anxious to avoid war, the United States government accepted the Japanese explanation and, in effect, let the matter drop. Yet it was a bitter pill for President Roosevelt to swallow. "I suppose it could be argued," he said to a friend, "that doing nothing is the next best thing to doing something." "Now," commented a small-town Idaho newspaper, "we can all sit back sans excitement--until Japan decides to sink another of our warships." (text from Jellison)

The Sandpebbles...Truly a Classic



20 posted on 11/04/2003 4:56:13 AM PST by Light Speed
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; Darksheare; radu; All

Good morning everyone!

21 posted on 11/04/2003 5:36:05 AM PST by Soaring Feather (Poets are in the Lair!)
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To: bentfeather
Good morning feather.
22 posted on 11/04/2003 5:40:30 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Light Speed
Thank you for the post on the USS Panay.
23 posted on 11/04/2003 5:52:01 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on November 04:
1650 William III of Orange, king of England (1689-1702)
1862 Eden Phillpotts England, novelist/poet/playwright (Red Madymaynes)
1873 GE Moore English philosopher (Ethics)
1876 James Fraser designed buffalo nickel
1879 Will Rogers Oologah Indian Territory (Oklahoma), humorist
1886 Ian Wolfe Canton IL, actor (Diary of a Madman, Wizards & Warriors)
1900 Luigi Lucioni Italian, landscape painter (opera stars)
1906 Bob Considine sports columnist (Bob Feller Story)
1909 Ciro Alegria Peru, novelist (Golden Serpent)
1912 Pauline Trigere fashion designer (Bell Bottoms)
1913 Gig Young St Cloud MN, actor (They Shoot Horses Don't They)
1916 Walter Cronkite St Joseph MO, news anchor (CBS Evening News 1962-81)
1918 Art Carney Mount Vernon NY, actor (Ed Norton-Honeymooners)
1918 Cameron Mitchell Dallastown PA, actor (Buck-High Chaparral)
1919 Martin Balsam NYC, actor (Murray-Archie Bunker's Place, Catch 22)
1929 Jimmy Piersall baseball player (Red Sox, Senators, Indians)
1930 Doris Roberts St Louis MO, actress (Angie, Maggie, Emmy 1983)
1930 Kate Reid London England, actress (Heaven Help Us)
1931 Darla Hood Leedey OK, singer/actress (Little Rascals)
1932 Noam Pitlik Philadelphia PA, actor/director (Sanford & Son, Bob Newhart)
1937 Loretta Swit Passaic NJ, actress (Hotlips Houlihan-M*A*S*H)
1947 Aleksandr Tkachev USSR, parallel bars gymnast (Olympic-gold-1980)
1947 Alexei Ulanov USSR, pairs figure skater (Olympic-gold-1972, 76)
1949 Berlinda Tolbert Charlotte NC, actor (Jenny-Jeffersons)
1950 Markie Post [Marjorie], Palo Alto Cal, actress/serious Babe (Christine-Night Court)
1954 Chris Difford guitarist/vocalist (Squeeze-Tempted)
1955 Peter Boynton Maine, actor (Tonio-As the World Turns)
1962 Ralph Macchio Huntington NY, actor (Karate Kid, 8 is Enough)
1966 Kool Rock [Damon Wimbley], rapper (Fat Boys-Jail House Rock)
1966 Petra Verkaik Los Angeles CA, playmate (Dec, 1989)
1975 Heather Tom actress (Victoria-Young & Restless)
1979 Daisy Eagan Brooklyn NY, actress (Secret Garden)



Deaths which occurred on November 04:
0644 Omar I, Arabic 2nd Calif of Islam, murdered
1702 John Benbow, English vice-admiral (Santa Marta)
1847 Felix Mendelssohn-Bartholdy, Germ pianist/composer, dies at 38
1921 Takasji Hara, premier of Japan, murdered
1928 - Arnold Rothstein, US "businessman"/gambler, shot to death at 46
1984 Merie Earle actress (Maude-Waltons), dies of uremic poisoning at 95
1987 Raphael Soyer artist (Depression scenes in NYC), dies at 87
1995 Yitzhak Rabin IDF Chief of Staff, diplomat and the fifth Prime Minister of the State of Israel, dies at 73
1997 H Richard Hornberger, surgeon (inspired M*A*S*H), dies at 73



Reported: MISSING in ACTION

1966 BRINCKMANN ROBERT E.---NEWARK NJ.
[31 JULY 1989 REMAINS RETURNED]
1966 CONNOLLY VINCENT J.---SAN ANTONIO TX.
[DEAD REMAINS RECOVERED 07/17/84]
1966 HUNT WILLIAM B.---SAND POINT ID.
1966 SCUNGIO VINCENT A.---NEWCASTLE PA.
1969 ALFORD TERRY L.---PASADENA TX.
1969 ANDERSON JOHN STEVEN---WATERLOO IA.
[07/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 BAUER RICHARD GENE---ANCHORAGE AK.
[07/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 CASTRO ALFONSO R.---LOS ANGELES CA.
[07/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 CAVENDER JAMES R.---SANTA PAULA CA.
[REMAINS OF OTHER CREW RECOVERED]
1969 HANLEY LARRY J.---WALLA WALLA WA.
1969 KENNEDY ALAN GORDON---FREMONT CA.
[07/09/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 KLIMO JAMES R.---MUSKEGON MI.
[REMAINS OF OTHER CREW RECOVERED]
1969 MEDARIS RICK EGGBURTUS---JENISON MI.
[07/09/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 PAYNE JOHN ALLEN---NEW YORK NY.
[07/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 ROACH MARION LEE---CENTRAL VALLEY CA.
[07/73 REMAINS RECOVERED]
1969 WARE JOHN A.---HERMISTON OR.
1970 HUMPHREY LARRY D.
[ESCAPED CUSTODY TO JOIN VC COLUMBIA EAGLE MUTINEER USA TODAY STORY 20 FEB 86]
1970 MC KAY CLYDE W.---CA
[ESCAPED CUSTODY TO JOIN VC]

POW / MIA Data & Bios supplied by
the P.O.W. NETWORK. Skidmore, MO. USA.


On this day...
1520 Danish/Norwegian king Christian II crowned king of Sweden
1529 English cardinal and Lord Chancellor Thomas Wolsey arrested
1576 Spanish defeat Walloons & take Antwerp Belgium
1760 Following the Russian capture of Berlin, Frederick II of Prussia defeats the Austrians at the Battle of Torgau.
1791 General Arthur St. Clair, governor of Northwest Territory, is badly defeated by a large Indian army near Fort Wayne
1798 Congress agrees to pay a yearly tribute to Tripoli, considering it the only way to protect U.S. shipping.
1842 Abraham Lincoln marries Mary Todd in Springfield, Ill
1845 1st nationally observed uniform election day in US
1854 Lighthouse established on Alcatraz Island
1861 University of Washington founded in Seattle
1862 Gatling gun patented (Richard J Gatling)
1863 From the main Confederate Army at Chattanooga, Tennessee, Lt. Gen. James Longstreet's troops are sent northeast to besiege Knoxville.
1866 Kingdom of Italy annexes Venetia
1867 90 kegs of powder used to get rock from Telegraph Hill for seawall
1873 Dentist John Beers of San Francisco patents the gold crown
1875 "Pacific" collides with "Orpheus" off Cape Flattery Wash, 236 dies
1879 James & John Ritty patent 1st cash register, to combat stealing by bartenders in their Dayton, Ohio saloon
1884 Grover Cleveland (D) beats James G Blaine (R) for 1st presidential term
1889 Players League begins, declaring independence from baseball's NL
1890 Great Britain proclaims Zanzibar as a protectorate
1904 1st stadium built specifically for football (Harvard Stadium)
1909 The opera "Il Segreto di Susanna" is produced (Munich)
1922 Howard Carter discovers tomb of Tutankhamen in Egypt
1924 California legalizes pro boxing (illegal since 1914)
1924 Nellie Tayloe Ross elected 1st US female gov (Wyoming)
1933 Young Park (1) in the Bronx named in honor of James Young
1934 Pittsburgh ends Detroit Lions' shutout streak at 7 games but loses 40-7
1939 1940 Olympics awarded to Helsinki, Finland
1939 1st air conditioned automobile (Packard) exhibited, Chicago, Ill
1939 US allows "cash & carry" arms sales during WW II
1946 UN Educational, Scientific, & Cultural Organization formed
1949 "One Man's Family" premieres on TV
1951 NY Giants & NY Yanks score back-to-back TDs on kickoff returns
1952 Eisenhower (R) elected 34th President beating Adlai Stevenson (D)
1954 Philadelphia A's move to Kansas City
1956 200,000 Russian troops attack anti-Stalinist revolt in Budapest
1956 Israel captures Straits of Tiran from Egypt
1956 Israeli troops reach Suez Canal
1957 2nd Soviet Earth-satellite launched
1959 Ernie Banks, Cubs shortstop, wins NL MVP
1963 John Lennon utters his infamous "Rattle your jewelry" line at the Royal Command Variety Performance ("The people in the cheaper seats, clap your hands... and if the rest of you would just rattle your jewelry.")
1965 Lee Breedlove sets female land speed record (308.56 MPH)
1966 Flooding of Arno River (Italy) destroys countless art works
1972 Kings score 3 goals within 45 seconds against Islanders
1973 New Orleans Saints 1st shutout victory, 13-0 vs Buffalo Bills
1978 Iranian troops fire on anti-Shah student protesters by Tehran U
1978 Islanders start 15 game undefeated streak (12-0-3)
1979 500 Iranian "students" seize US embassy, take 90 hostages (444 days)
1980 Islanders start 15 game undefeated streak (13-0-2)

1980 Ronald Reagan (R) beats President Jimmy Carter (Dim) by a landslide!!!!

1981 Columbia shuttle launch scrubbed with 31 secs remaining
1983 Washington Capitals 1st NHL overtime victory beating Vancouver 5-4
1984 Nicaragua holds 1st free elections in 56 years; Sandinistas win 63%
1986 Democrats gain control over the US Senate
1987 Lisa Steinberg, battered into coma by her adoptive father
1987 NBA announces 4 new franchises; Charlotte & Miami for 1988 & Minneapolis & Orlando for 1989
1989 Orlando Magic's 1st NBA game, loses to Nets, 111-106
1990 Iraq says it is preparing for a "dangerous war"
1990 Secretary of State James Baker visits US troops in Saudi Arabia
1991 Mid East peace conference ends in Madrid Spain



Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Italy : Unity Day (1945)/Victory of Vittorio Veneto (1866)
Oklahoma : Will Rogers Day (1879)
Panama, Panama Canal Zone : Flag Day
Tonga : Constitution Day (1970)
Virgin Islands : Liberty Day (Monday)
Liberia : Thanksgiving Day (Thursday)
World : World Community Day (1945) (pray for peace) (Friday)
Denmark : Esbjerg Cup-World's largest ice skating championship (Saturday)



Religious Observances
RC : Memorial of St Charles Borromeo, archbishop of Milan, confessor



Religious History
1646 The Massachusetts Bay Colony passed a law making it a capital offense to deny that the Bible was the Word of God. Any person convicted of the offense was liable to the death penalty.
1740 Birth of Anglican clergyman Augustus M. Toplady. A highly respected evangelical leader, Toplady authored the hymn "Rock of Ages" two years before his premature death at 38 in 1778.
1898 The first church to bear the Pentecostal Holiness name was organized at Goldsboro, NC, under the leadership of Methodist evangelist Ambrose Blackman Crumpler, 35.
1936 Future U.S. Senate Chaplain Rev. Peter Marshall, 34, married Catherine Wood, 22. Following Peter's premature death at age 46, Catherine immortalized his name through her 1951 bestÂselling biography, "A Man Called Peter."
1966 London's "Evening Standard" newspaper published John Lennon's controversial remark stating that the Beatles were "more popular than Jesus." The quote touched off a storm of controversy and international protest, resulting in a world_wide boycott of Beatles music.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



Thought for the day :
"To escape criticism - do nothing, say nothing, be nothing."


Question of the day...
If a funeral procession is at night, do you drive with your lights off?


Murphys Law of the day...(Freeman's Law)
Nothing is so simple it cannot be misunderstood.


Astoundingly Amazing fact #74...
Hamsters love to eat crickets.
24 posted on 11/04/2003 7:36:52 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: Valin
1980 Ronald Reagan (R) beats President Jimmy Carter (Dim) by a landslide!!!!



You were right to have this stand out on it's own. Yippee!

Morning Valin.
25 posted on 11/04/2003 7:40:43 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin
1970 HUMPHREY LARRY D.
[ESCAPED CUSTODY TO JOIN VC COLUMBIA EAGLE MUTINEER USA TODAY STORY 20 FEB 86]

Well my curiosity was peeked as I'd not heard of anything about this, so...
Page 58 from the BOOK “ My war with The CIA “

two U S sailors 'mutinied' and imprisoned the whole crew. Shades of Captain
Bligh and the Bounol Ostensibly these men were war protestors who sailed the
Columbia Eagle into sihanoukville harbor because they objected to carrying
napalm bombs to Bangkok. It so happened that some French secondary-school
teachers at Sihanoukville took photos of the 'hijacked' ship when it
arrived, and again when it left. They noted that it had been very low in
the water on arrival, and very high on departure.

And, after dark on the day when the Columbia Eagle dropped anchor, the
Sihanoukville-Phnom Penh road was suddenly closed to civilian traffic -
something without precedent - and convoys of GM C military trucks from the
Sihanoukville docks passed along the road to Phnom Penh until the next
morning. On the day of the coup, Western correspondents noted that the
troops massed outside the national Assembly were armed with brand-new, Mi6
rifles, weapons our army did not possess. It seems the Columbia Eagle was
one of the C I A's responses to Lon Nol's request, delivered via Son Ngoc
Thanh, to help in case of a'Vietcong' coun ter-attack. What they really
feared was the response of the Cambodian people.

While it is conceivable that Lon Nol and Sirik Matak were too dense to
foresee the dire consequences of their actions (their main concern being to
get their hands on as many dollars as possible), the United States,
consciously and deliberately, exported the war in South Vietnam to
Cambodia. -They made their usual miscalculations, however, as to the
long-term effects.

In March 1970 the SS Columbia Eagle was seized by mutineers, the crew set adrift, and the ship taken into Cambodia. Mellon and Chase resolved the situation, and Chase transported the shipless crew home. The Coast Guard cutters remained in the Gulf of Thailand and gathered considerable knowledge about the area which they passed on to arriving Navy ships. As the cutters normally returned to the area after an R & R port, they frequently took in-country personnel with them on these port visits which proved to be a tremendous morale booster for the in-country troops. Vietnamese naval personnel were also taken along, and on some trips it was standing room only.
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/h_tulichvietnam.html

I've been doing some reading up on the political background to the
Vietnam War, and came across a footnote mention of an American munitions
ship, "Columbia Eagle", which was "hijacked by two American hippies" and
taken to Cambodia (the book is Sideshow, by William Shawcross, if
anyone's interested).
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Kv9SeMAij8R3EwO9%40rat-cage.demon.co.uk&output=gplain


Gotta love google!
26 posted on 11/04/2003 7:59:38 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: snippy_about_it
[Jesus] said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid." —John 6:20


Do not fear the darkness that is gathering all around,
For the Lord is with you, and in Him true peace is found;
When you're facing trouble, or when tragedy seems near,
Jesus is the only one to drive away your fear. —Hess

We can face any fear when we know the Lord is near.

27 posted on 11/04/2003 8:08:38 AM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: The Mayor
Hello Mayor. Thanks for the coffee and the word.
28 posted on 11/04/2003 8:13:33 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: *all

Air Power
MiG-17 "FRESCO"

The design of the MiG-17 was undertaken to correct the deficiencies that the earlier MiG-15 had at higher speeds. It was the first Soviet fighter to have an afterburning engine, the Klimov VK-1.

In 1949, the Mikoyan-Gurevich (MiG) design bureau began work on a new fighter to replace the MiG-15. Two features of the aircraft were a thinner wing of greater sweep and a redesigned tail that improved stability and handling at speeds approaching Mach 1 (speed of sound). Although similar in appearance to the MiG-15, the MiG-17 has more sharply swept wings, an afterburner, better speed and handling characteristics and is about three feet longer. The wings of the aircraft are mid-mounted, swept-back, and tapered with blunt tips. They have wide wing roots. The engine is one turbojet inside the body and has a round air intake in the nose. It has a single, small exhaust. The fuselage is short, thick, cigar-shaped and tapered to the rear. It has a blunt nose and bubble canopy. The tail fin is swept-back and tapered with rounded tip. Flats are high-mounted on the tail fin, swept-back, and tapered. Flats and fin overhang the exhaust.

The prototype MiG-17 (NATO code name Fresco) first flew in January 1950 and was reported to have exceeded Mach 1 in level flight. Production began in late 1951, but the aircraft were not available in sufficient quantities to take part in the Korean War. Deliveries to the Soviet Air Force began in 1952. Five versions of the aircraft eventually were produced. Early production MiG-17s were fitted with the VK-1 engine, a Soviet copy of the Rolls-Royce Nene. The VK-1F, an improved version with a simple afterburner and variable nozzle, was developed for the main production version, the MiG-17F (Fresco C). In 1955 the radar equipped MiG-17PF (Fresco D) entered service as a limited all-weather interceptor. The MiG-17PFU was armed with four AA-1 "Alkali" radar-guided missiles, making it the Soviet Union's first missile armed interceptor. Even though it was considered obsolete by the mid-1960s, the MiG-17 gave a good account over Vietnam, being flown by most of the top North Vietnamese pilots, including the leading ace, Colonel Tomb.

The MiG-17 served with nearly 30 air forces worldwide, including the Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact countries, China, Afghanistan, North Korea, Sri Lanka, Syria, Morocco, Cuba, Indonesia, and Cambodia. Though smaller than the USAF F-86 Sabre of Korean War fame, its weight and performance favorably compared to that aircraft. Soviet production of the MiG-17 ended in 1958 with over 6,000 produced. It continued to be built under license in Poland as the Lim-5P and in China as the J-5/F-4. China's first reproduced jet fighter plane, the J-5, successfully flew in Shenyang for the first time on 19 July 1956, and General Nie Rongzhen went in person to Shenyang to offer congratulations.

Specifications:
Manufacturer: Mikoyan-Gurevich
Country of Origin: CIS (formerly USSR)
Crew: One
Role: fighter/bomber
Engine: One Valer Klimov VK-1 turbojet with 5,952 lbs. of thrust

Dimensions:
Length: 36 ft, 5 in (11.1 m)
Span: 31 ft, 7 in (9.64 m)
Height: 12 feet, 6 inches
Weight: 14,770 lbs
Payload: 650 kg
Sensors: None
Internal Fuel: 1143 kg

Performance :
Maximum speed: 696 mph
Range: 1,290 miles
Service Ceiling: 52,366 feet / 15850 meters
In-Flight Refueling: No
Drop Tanks:2 - 400 L drop tank with 325kg of fuel for 155nm range

Armaments:
3 NR-23 23mm Cannon
4 8x57mm rocket pods or
2 type 250kg bombs (729nm) or
2 400 L drop tanks (936)





All information and photos Copyright of Global Security.Org
29 posted on 11/04/2003 8:21:25 AM PST by Johnny Gage (Everybody is someone elses weirdo)
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To: SAMWolf
The U.S. Fifth Air Force personnel even questioned the lack of strip alert status for Pueblo's support but they were verbally informed that such measures would not be needed.

So there Myself and Willie Irons were guarding the only two American air craft on alert in the rok. Unfortunately they were not armed with the kind of weapons that would have been useful, (Annex Echo material). One bomb per plane, two-man concept, no-lone zone in effect.

An "official" rumor I heard was that the ROK Air Force said they could provide air cover for the Pueblo, but were turned down by %th Air Force (ADVON) at Osan.

We went from 3 40 man shifts (LE, Security, K-9) to two shifts, 125 (security) 30 (LE) 40 K-9, 50 (Tiger Flight) in about a month, Cops came up from the PI and even some who were on their way to SEA. It was about 3 weeks after the high-jacking that it occured to us that we were not going to do anything to the NKs for this. Needless to say moral went right down the tubes (On this I can only really speak for the cops at Osan, but in talking to MPs up on the Z they had similar attitude)

What a Fluster Cluck right from the start.
30 posted on 11/04/2003 8:26:51 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: snippy_about_it
Good Morning SNippy


31 posted on 11/04/2003 8:36:43 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Morning Glory Snip & Sam~

This story has always been so difficult to swallow. I didn't realize the USS Pueblo was never given back and is now a "museum" for these gook bastards.

SENATE RESOLUTION 246--DEMANDING THE RETURN OF THE USS "PUEBLO" TO
THE UNITED STATES NAVY

"It is important to note that even to this day the capture of the USS Pueblo has resulted in no reprisal against North Korea, demonstrating remarkable restraint by the United States. Even though the USS Pueblo still clearly remains the legal property of the United States Navy, the North Korean Government has kept it on display as a sort of traveling propaganda museum."

I believe back in the 70's PBS and "Hallmark" produced a movie presentation of this illegal capture. Hal Holbrook gave a brillant portrayal of Cmdr. Lloyd Bucher.

32 posted on 11/04/2003 8:37:21 AM PST by w_over_w (The meek shall inherit the earth . . . but not it's mineral rights.)
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To: E.G.C.
Morning E.G.C. Frost on the pumpkins again this morning
33 posted on 11/04/2003 8:37:23 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: WaterDragon
Morning WaterDragon.

The whole affair was just another sign of "let's not offend the bad guys" that the Libs always push.
34 posted on 11/04/2003 8:42:04 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: SAMWolf
Awwwww.

swoon

They're beautiful, thank you.

35 posted on 11/04/2003 8:42:04 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: manna
Hi Manna!


36 posted on 11/04/2003 8:44:56 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: Light Speed
Morning Light Speed. Sand Pebbles!! Great movie and good book!
37 posted on 11/04/2003 8:48:49 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: bentfeather
Morning Feather.
38 posted on 11/04/2003 8:49:54 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: SAMWolf
Hi, SAM!
39 posted on 11/04/2003 8:51:18 AM PST by manna
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To: Valin
1979 500 Iranian "students" seize US embassy, take 90 hostages (444 days)

Thank you Jimmy Carter for your total incompetence in handling this one.

Here's the Jimmy Carter Library's spin on it.

On November 4, 1979, Iranian militants stormed the United States Embassy in Tehran and took approximately seventy Americans captive. This terrorist act triggered the most profound crisis of the Carter presidency and began a personal ordeal for Jimmy Carter and the American people that lasted 444 days.

President Carter committed himself to the safe return of the hostages while protecting America's interests and prestige. He pursued a policy of restraint that put a higher value on the lives of the hostages than on American retaliatory power or protecting his own political future.

The toll of patient diplomacy was great, but President Carter's actions brought freedom for the hostages with America's honor preserved.

Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran, began his reign in 1941, succeeding his father, Reza Khan, to the throne. In a 1953 power struggle with his prime minister, the Shah gained American support to prevent nationalization of Iran's oil industry. In return for assuring the U.S. a steady supply of oil, the Shah received economic and military aid from eight American presidents.

Early in the 1960s, the Shah announced social and economic reforms but refused to grant broad political freedom. Iranian nationalists condemned his U.S. supported regime and his "westernizing" of Iran. During rioting in 1963, the Shah cracked down, suppressing his opposition. Among those arrested and exiled was a popular religious nationalist and bitter foe of the United States, the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Between 1963 and 1979, the Shah spent billions of oil dollars on military weapons. The real price of military strength was the loss of popular support. Unable to sustain economic progress and unwilling to expand democratic freedoms, the Shah's regime collapsed in revolution. On January 16, 1979, the Shah fled Iran, never to return.

The exiled Ayatollah Khomeini returned to Tehran in February 1979 and whipped popular discontent into rabid anti-Americanism. When the Shah came to America for cancer treatment in October, the Ayatollah incited Iranian militants to attack the U.S. On November 4, the American Embassy in Tehran was overrun and its employees taken captive. The hostage crisis had begun.

40 posted on 11/04/2003 8:55:24 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: Valin
Thanks Valin. Learned something new today. Never heard of this incident.
41 posted on 11/04/2003 8:57:41 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: The Mayor
Morning Mayor
42 posted on 11/04/2003 8:58:08 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: Johnny Gage
Thakns Johnny.






43 posted on 11/04/2003 9:02:45 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: Valin
It was about 3 weeks after the high-jacking that it occured to us that we were not going to do anything to the NKs for this. Needless to say moral went right down the tubes

I can believe that. I finally figured out that most politicians and their "political decisions" are bad for morale and usually get people killed.

44 posted on 11/04/2003 9:05:55 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: w_over_w
I believe back in the 70's PBS and "Hallmark" produced a movie presentation of this illegal capture. Hal Holbrook gave a brillant portrayal of Cmdr. Lloyd Bucher.

Yep, Your right, I saw it when it was aired. Holbrook did a good job. I knew we never got the ship back but didn't know they were using it as a tourist attraction.

45 posted on 11/04/2003 9:07:53 AM PST by SAMWolf (Communism Has Only Killed 100 Million People ... Let's Give It Another Chance!")
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Good morning!

Quite the mess here this morning. Five inches of new snow in my driveway and a slippery drive to work. Wasn't what I had in mind for election day here!

46 posted on 11/04/2003 9:19:47 AM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: SAMWolf
That pretty much started my years of wandering in the leftist wilderness. President Jimmy brought me back to reality(And yes I voted for him...the FIRST time, hey we're all entitled to one mistake)

I think many of us understood that with Viet-Nam(the reason I volunteered for Korea...nothing ever happened there) going on they were a priority. But if we weren't going to really do anything why do a massive buildup like they did. We went from (if memory serves) 5 F-4s to three Squadrons in less than a week, there were aircraft stacked up halfway back to Alaska, and us cops were hotbunking and sharing cold weather gear.
47 posted on 11/04/2003 9:27:44 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: SAMWolf
Nice thread, Sam. Very appropriate for the anniversary of the Teheran embassy seizure. This thread also reminds me of the Liberty and the P-3 the Chinese took. Our intel people do not seem to be well served, but often left to their own devices.

The Navy put the Pueblo into harms's way with no protection and then tried to make Cmdr. Bucher a scapegoat. A couple of aircraft could easily have chased away the N.K.'s.

48 posted on 11/04/2003 10:18:26 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: Light Speed; SAMWolf
"Instead the people chose to vent their anger, such as it was, against their own government. What was an American gunboat doing in China in the first place? Didn't the president and Congress know there was a war going on over there? What were they trying to do, make the Orient safe for democracy?"

Sounds like some of the same drivel we're hearing about Iraq.

49 posted on 11/04/2003 10:22:07 AM PST by colorado tanker ("There are but two parties now, Traitors and Patriots")
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To: Colonel_Flagg
Yuck, snow.

Good afternoon Colonel. I'm not looking forward to winter, never do really. :(

But it's 80 degreess today! :)
50 posted on 11/04/2003 10:35:17 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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