The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - Italian Tanks in World War II - Nov. 30th, 2004

users.swing.be/tanks.edito ^

[Valin]

One of my hero's.
He really was a 19th century man stuck in the XXth.

[Soaring Feather]

Good morning everyone!
WOO HOO ThreadHead Tuesday!

[Valin]

I really didn't put my question very well.
As I understand it the basic difference between a tank and a tank destroyer is the tank destroyer upgunned, and doesn't have a moveable turret. so I don't understand how the Italian could build such bad tanks and such good tank destroyers?

[SAMWolf]

The right man at the right place at the right time.

[SAMWolf]

Morning Feather.

[SAMWolf]

I believe they put in the bigger gun from the start, the germans were caught unprepared with TD's. They had to modify existing tank chassis with captured guns. It wasn't until later in the war the Germans produced decent TD's, the US was using half-tracks at the time. Don'r recall if the Brits or french had any early in the war. The Italians were actually ahead of the pack at the time.

[Valin]

Don'r recall if the Brits or french had any early in the war.

Gotta run but I'll take a look tonight.

[Professional Engineer]

Good afternoon ladies. Flag-o-gram.

[Professional Engineer]

US : Stay Home Because You're Well Day

So that's why I'm here at work.

[Professional Engineer]

I took a photography class some time ago. The instructor told us the story of Mr. Churchill's expression.

The photographer was a young "unknown" at the time. He had 30 seconds to take his photos. He'd snapped the first, pulled and replaced the plates, then grabbed Mr. Churchill's cigar from his mouth, and snapped the shutter.

[Professional Engineer]

We stayed in the upper 30's and lower 40's yesterday. "Someone" complained about how cold it was all day. ;-)

So, you just had to send it here? It's just now reached 40.

[Professional Engineer]

Hi miss Feather

[Soaring Feather]

WOO HOO!!! Blue Angels!

[Iris7]

Before WWII armor technology got ahead of anti-armor gun technology. I don't mean that the tanks, themselves, had good armor, but making better armor became possible. Casting and welding technique, the heat treatment of thick and irregular sections, surface hardening, alloying technique, etc. improved. This all happened between 1936 and 1939, only three years.

Early well known examples of improved armor designs are Matilda and T34.

The Big Boys did not want to hear that all those three year old tanks they had bought were junk (like the American Sherman in 1944 - a two year old tank), and refused to admit it until the anti-tank guns had improved enough to make things obvious. The Russian 76 mm was the first to do this.

So, now there was a big hurry to make something that could be effective. Rather than design new tanks from scratch, with new engines and transmissions to handle the increased weight, new hulls, turrets, factories to build them, etc. which would have taken about two years to get up to speed even in wartime for any Axis power - even railroads had to be upgraded to handle moving tooling, completed tanks, etc. - hurried conversions of existing production designs were needed ASAP. There were two choices, one the Russian T34/85 and the other a machine with no turret. The Russians did both.

There are lots of very good Italian engineers (almost all Lombards). I can just picture them looking at the factory building the existing obsolete tank, going through each step of the process, making this bracket, riveting the bracket in place, bending this pipe, etc., trying to see the best solution that included a big enough gun. For some reason the geeks were let loose to fix things, unlike the normal state of affairs where MBAs, wanting to boss everyone around, bring the search for a solution to a standstill.

Can't tell from the pictures what the modifications were. For a techno geek like me, it would be fun to examine those machines side by side.

[Iris7]

Even the German Panther, with a T34 to copy from, took two years to make work.

Hitler was insanely hot to get the machine into the field for Kursk, made everbody work in a manic frenzy on it, but even so the engine and transmission were junk, with most machines out with mechanical problems most of the time.

Would have been a lot faster to get the machine about half right the first time instead of shipping junk like they did.

[alfa6]

There has to be a better way to make a living than working, know any billionaire widows?

Two problems with that scenario. 1} Mrs alfa6 2} I am not John Kerry :-)

Back to the soap machine

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[colorado tanker]

Winston Churchill - that old unilateralist warmonger. Why did he have Britain declare war against Germany when Germany posed no threat to Britain? :)

[colorado tanker]

Seriously, you quoted one of the greatest speeches by on of the greatest wartime leaders of all. I gotta think when Tony Blair decided to defy his party and join in the attack on Iraq, he felt the presence of Winston looking down on him at No. 10.

[colorado tanker]

What a great story. No wonder Winston was glowering at the camera!