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The Freeper Foxhole Enjoys an Almost Lazy Sunday- A B-24 Liberator Walk Around
See Educational Sources

Posted on 09/03/2005 9:24:33 PM PDT by alfa6


Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

A B-24 Liberator Walk About

A Color, mostly, look at a B-24

Design of the B-24 was started in 1939 when the U.S.Army Air Corps started a request for a new bomber with performance better than the B-17. Consolidated Aircraft was awarded a contract on March 30, 1939 for the Consolidated Model 32. On December 29, 1939 the B-24 prototype took flight.

The B-24 was designed around the high lift Davis wing, an airfoil that was 20% more efficent than the contemporary airfoils that were in use at the time. Also notable on the B-24 was the first use of the tri-cycle landing gear on a heavy bomber and the unique roll-up bomb bay doors. The oval shaped engine cowlings were necessitated by the placement of the turbosuperchargers.

Of the first 7 YB-40s 6 were sent to Great Britian under the designation LB-30A. The British found that they were not suitable for combat operations due to the lack of self sealing fuel tanks and turbosuperchargers. The 6 aircraft ended up be used as transports in the Trans-Atlantic Return ferry Service.

Like the earlier B-17 the B-24 was subjected to a number of modifications. Two of which stand out are the C-87 cargo version and the C-109 flying tanker version. Winston Churchill had a specially outfitted C-87 as his personal aircraft.

18,188 B-24s were produced by the end of WW-II and the B-24 soldiered on till 1953 with the United States Air Force. The B-24 was produced not only by Consolidated Aircraft but by Ford at the Willow Run plant, were 6,600 were built. Other producers of the B-24 were North American Aviation at the Dallas plant and Douglas had a plant in Tulsa Oklahoma as well.

Currently out of the over 18,000 B-24s produced there are only three flyable B-24s in existence. There are two B-24Js and an LB-30 that are still flyable. As an interesting side note the Indian Air Force flew the B-24 untill 1968 and this is the source of the two remaing flyable "J" models.

What follows will be a short walk around and a few interior views of a B-24.

FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links

KEYWORDS: freeperfoxhole; history; samsnippydayoff; veterans
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1 posted on 09/03/2005 9:24:35 PM PDT by alfa6
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To: alfa6

The Collings Foundation's B-24 head on

A close up of the nose turret.

A look at the nose of the B-24 on the pilot's side.

A close up of the Prat & Whitney R-1830 engines.

A look at the left waist gun position.

Around now to the tail turret.

A look now at the right side waist gun. This picture shows how the waist guns were staggered in the later model of the B-24 as in the B-17Gs.

A pic of the right side of the aircraft


A nice shot of the "Art" work on the "Dragon and His Tail"

2 posted on 09/03/2005 9:25:36 PM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: alfa6
Ploesti remembrance bump
3 posted on 09/03/2005 9:25:42 PM PDT by NonValueAdded ("Freedom of speech makes it much easier to spot the idiots." [Jay Lessig, 2/7/2005])
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To: alfa6


4 posted on 09/03/2005 9:31:23 PM PDT by anonymoussierra (Deus Meus, Credo in Te, Domine Iesu, Noverim Me,Iesu Dulcissime, Redemptor)
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To: alfa6; NonValueAdded

A look in B&W, sorry, of the B-24 Cockpit.

A color shot of the cockpit of British Liberator.

A fine shot of the business end of a late model B-24. Note the door to the nose turret, it could only be opened with the guns trained forward, if it was damaged and unable to traverse back to the front the gunner would not be able to get out in most cases.

A pic of I believe of the radio operators station.

A view looking forward from just in front of the Ball Turret.

A look in the Bomb Bay, note the open door on the left side and the closed door on the right side of the picture.

A shot of the ball turret and the hatch for the gunner. The B-24 and B-17 used the same basic ball turret with one distinction. The turret on the B-24 was retractable due to the low ground clearance of the Liberator.

A picture of one of the waist .50 caliber Brownings and a pretty young gunner if I may say so.

And to conclude our tour of the inside of the B-24 a picture looking aft to the tail turret.

Many thanks to the folks that took the time to post the pictures on the web and in the newsgroups so that I could share them with you.

A few links for more info on the B-24

(B-24 best web)

(B-24 Liberator)

(B-24 Warbirdalley)

5 posted on 09/03/2005 9:35:18 PM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf

Showcasing America's finest, and those who betray them!

Please click on the banner above and check out this newly created (and still under construction) website created by FReeper Coop!

Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization.

Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.

Thanks to quietolong for providing this link.

We here at Blue Stars For A Safe Return are working hard to honor all of our military, past and present, and their families. Inlcuding the veterans, and POW/MIA's. I feel that not enough is done to recognize the past efforts of the veterans, and remember those who have never been found.

I realized that our Veterans have no "official" seal, so we created one as part of that recognition. To see what it looks like and the Star that we have dedicated to you, the Veteran, please check out our site.

6 posted on 09/03/2005 9:36:40 PM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: alfa6
A few pics that did not make it for one reason or another.

Here is a close up of the Martin A-3 top turret on a B-24

And I really should have worked this picture into the story above.

Y'all have a good day and we will be back in the morning :-)


alfa6 ;>}

7 posted on 09/03/2005 9:41:52 PM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: anonymoussierra

Ya was early, I weren't done yet. Good thing though ya might have run out of )))))))


alfa6 ;>}

8 posted on 09/03/2005 9:43:31 PM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: alfa6

:}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}thank you good friend:}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

9 posted on 09/03/2005 9:49:09 PM PDT by anonymoussierra (Deus Meus, Credo in Te, Domine Iesu, Noverim Me,Iesu Dulcissime, Redemptor)
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To: Colonial Warrior; texianyankee; vox_PL; Bigturbowski; ruoflaw; Bombardier; Steelerfan; ...

"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!

Good Sunday Morning Everyone.

If you want to be added to our ping list, let us know.

Thanks for standing in for us so often alfa6. We really enjoy the breaks.

10 posted on 09/03/2005 9:51:39 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: alfa6

And that beauty was built by Consolidated -Ft Worth, I forget which J it is , but it is a Ft Worth bird. 5 plants built the J model, Consolidated SanDiego(CO), Consolidated Ft Worth(CF), Douglas Tulsa (DT), NorthAmerican Dallas (NT) and Ford (FO) The Barksdale B-24 is a Ford built Liberator.

God, what a dull boy I am .

11 posted on 09/03/2005 11:48:02 PM PDT by gatorbait
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To: alfa6

>>>> The B-24 and B-17 used the same basic ball turret with one distinction. The turret on the B-24 was retractable due to the low ground clearance of the Liberator. <<<<

If i'm not mistaken the B-17s was also retractable. Not much clearance with a tail wheel in the back either.

12 posted on 09/04/2005 1:01:37 AM PDT by quietolong
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To: snippy_about_it

Good morning to everyone at the Freeper Foxhole.

13 posted on 09/04/2005 3:02:11 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: snippy_about_it

Good morning Snippy, Sam and every one. As if GW hasn't enough on his plate he looses the Chief Justice. May our Lord grant Rehnquist family His comfort.

14 posted on 09/04/2005 3:32:12 AM PDT by GailA (Glory be to GOD and his only son Jesus.)
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To: alfa6
Those images are very good.

There is a book around here, probably boxed up, by a Japanese Naval Aviator, Okumiya Masatake I think. Could be wrong book or author, but I think not:

Zero : The Story of Japan's Air War in the Pacific

Okumiya (his family name) talks about his list of American advantages found insurmountable by the Japanese. One item on this list was that long range reconnaissance aircraft made every Japanese effort beyond the tactical visible to the Americans.

The B-24 had the longest range available and was well protected (the Japanese found the defenses of a single B-24 very effective against attack by Zeros). Okumiya tells a story of a B-24 intercepted by Zeros that flamed three and escaped.

One thing hardly ever talked about is WWII air born electronics intelligence gathering. One can imagine why, as this is a most fruitful endeavor yet today! And so it was during the Pacific War.

Japanese radar stations, amongst other things, were sniffed out by B-24's generally because they had the range and room for the gear. They were replaced by B-29s as they became available.

The electronics intelligence B-29s were used for a surprisingly long time. I remember seeing three of them at Tachikawa in 1967, still being used, but now as "typhoon hunters" (Hah, hah, hah!! Pretty slim pickings cover story!).
15 posted on 09/04/2005 4:50:51 AM PDT by Iris7 ("A pig's gotta fly." - Porco Rosso)
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To: snippy_about_it; All

Good Sunday morning to everyone. Thanks for the tour of the B-24. The pictures are absolutely great.

A couple of questions - one of the pics had what looks to me like names of individuals inscribed on the fuselage - am I correct? Are those the names of air force vets who flew some of the B-24's?

Secondly, in the movie, "12 O'Clock High," did the movie use B-24's? It's been a couple of decades since I've seen that movie.

16 posted on 09/04/2005 5:42:27 AM PDT by texianyankee
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; All

September 4, 2005

God Is Great, God Is Good

Nahum 1:1-8

The Lord is slow to anger and great in power . . . . The Lord is good, a stronghold in the day of trouble. —Nahum 1:3,7

Bible In One Year: 2 Chronicles 14-16

cover When we were children, my brother and I recited this prayer every night before supper: "God is great, God is good. Let us thank Him for this food." For years I spoke the words of this prayer without stopping to consider what life would be like if it were not true—if God were not both great and good.

Without His greatness maintaining order in the universe, the galaxies would be a junkyard of banged-up stars and planets. And without His goodness saying "enough" to every evil despot, the earth would be a playground ruled by the biggest bully.

That simple childhood prayer celebrates two profound attributes of God: His transcendence and His immanence. Transcendence means that His greatness is beyond our comprehension. Immanence describes His nearness to us. The greatness of the almighty God sends us to our knees in humility. But the goodness of God lifts us back to our feet in grateful, jubilant praise. The One who is above everything humbled Himself and became one of us (Psalm 135:5; Philippians 2:8).

Thank God that He uses His greatness not to destroy us but to save us, and that He uses His goodness not as a reason to reject us but as a way to reach us. —Julie Ackerman Link

Immortal, invisible, God only wise,
In light inaccessible hid from our eyes,
Most blessed, most glorious, the Ancient of Days,
Almighty, victorious—Thy great name we praise. —Smith

When you taste God's goodness, His praise will be on your lips.

Why Would A Good God Allow Suffering?

17 posted on 09/04/2005 5:54:29 AM PDT by The Mayor ( Pray as if everything depends on God; work as if everything depends on you.)
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To: texianyankee; All
The names are the donors who chipped in to get the B-24 restored.

As a side note I was lucky enough to see the "Dragon and His Tail" here in Kansas City a couple of years ago. They were very carefull to taxi up to the gate area with the pilots side to the gate. Hmmm, I wonder why?

BTW, the Collings Foundation has repainted the B-24 in the colors of the 8th Air Force, the 467th Bomb Group. The aircraft's name is "Witchcraft"

Here's a pic of the new nose art paint job.

And I don't recall seeing any B-24s in 12 O'Clock High. Maybe I will have to watch the movie tonite to double check.


alfa6 ;>}

18 posted on 09/04/2005 8:00:22 AM PDT by alfa6 (BLOAT)
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To: alfa6

On This Day In History

Birthdates which occurred on September 04:
0522 Greek poet Pindar
1383 Amadeus VIII, duke of Savoye/last antipope (Felix V (1439-48)
1736 Robert Raikes England, Sunday school pioneer
1768 Vicomte François René de Chateaubriand, French writer and chef who gave his name to a style of steak.
1795 Friedrich [August] von Alberti German geologist (Triassic Age)
1802 Marcus Whitman missionary, led to US securing Oregon
1803 Sarah Childress Polk 1st lady
1810 Donald McKay US naval architect, built fastest clipper ships
1824 Anton Bruckner Austria, Wagner disciple & monumental bore
1825 Dadabhai Naoroji 1st Indian in British parliament
1895 Nigel Bruce British/US actor (Dr Watson-Sherlock Holmes)
1917 Henry Ford II automaker (Ford)(SHOCK! I always thought he worked for GM.)
1918 Paul Harvey Tulsa Okla, news commentator (The rest.........of the story)
1920 Craig Claiborne food columnist (NY Times Cookbook)
1928 Dick York Fort Wayne Ind, actor (Darrin-Bewitched, Inherit the Wind)
1929 Thomas Eagleton (Sen-D-Mo, Dem VP candidate 1972)
1942 Ray Floyd Fort Bragg NC, PGA golfer (Masters 1976)
1953 Lawrence-Hilton Jacobs NYC, actor (Freddie-Welcome Back Kotter)
1959 William Kennedy Smith Kennedy accused of rape in Florida (1991)
1966 Debra Lewin South Burlington Vermont, Miss Vermont-America (1991)
1972 Merald Knight Atlanta Ga, singer (Gladys Knights & Pips)
2179 Nyota Uhura Nairobi Kenya, communications officer (Star Trek)

Deaths which occurred on September 04:
1553 Cornelia da Nomatalcino monk converted to Judaism, burned at stake
1864 John Hunt Morgan (Confederate cavalry leader) killed in Greeneville, Tennessee
1907 Edvard Hagerup Grieg, Norwegian composer (Peer Gynt Suite), dies at 64
1965 Albert Schweitzer dies
1974 Creighton W Abrams US general/army staff chief (Vietnam), dies at 59
1975 Walter Tetley voice (Sherman-Bullwinkle Show), dies at 60
1985 George O'Brien actor, dies of a stroke at 85
1991 Dottie West country singer, dies at 58 in a car crash
1995 William Moses Kunstler, UCLA attorney (Chicago 7), dies at 78

Take A Moment To Remember
GWOT Casualties

09-Sep-2003 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Specialist Ryan G. Carlock Baghdad (NE of) Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack

04-Sep-2004 1 | US: 1 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Petty Officer 3rd Class Eric L. Knott Not reported yet Hostile - hostile fire

Data research by Pat Kneisler
Designed and maintained by Michael White
Go here and I'll stop nagging.

On this day...
0422 St Boniface I ends his reign as Catholic Pope
0476 Romulus Augustulus, last Roman emperor in west, is deposed
1618 "Rodi" avalanche destroys Plurs Switzerland, 1,500 killed
1682 English astronomer Edmund Halley sees his namesake comet
1781 Los Angeles founded in Bahia de las Fumas by 44 settlers, (Valley of Smokes)
1807 Robert Fulton begins operating his steamboat
1820 Czar Alexander declares that Russian influence in North America extends as far south as Oregon and closes Alaskan waters to foreigners
1833 1st newsboy hired (Barney Flaherty-NY Sun)
1842 Work on Koln cathedral recommences after 284-year hiatus
1862 Gen Lee invades North with 50,000 Confederate troops
1862 North Beach & Mission Railway Company organized in SF
1864 Bread riots in Mobile, Alabama
1866 1st Hawaiian daily newspaper published
1870 3rd French republic proclaimed as they overthrow their king (Question: Does this count as a French victory, or a French defeat?)
1882 1st district lit by electricty (NY's Pearl Street Station)
1885 1st cafeteria opens (NYC)
1886 Apache leader Geronimo surrendered to General Nelson A. Miles at Skeleton Canyon, Arizona
1888 George Eastman patents 1st roll-film camera & registers "Kodak"
1911 Garros sets world altitude record of 13,944 ft
1915 The U.S. military places Haiti under martial law to quell a rebellion in its capital Port-au-Prince.
1918 US troops land in Archangel, Russia, stay 10 months
1920 Last day of Julian civil calendar (in parts of Bulgaria)
1933 Coup against Cuban president De Cespedes by Fulgencio Batista
1933 1st airplane to exceed 300 mph, JR Wendell, Glenview, Il
1937 Doris Kopsky, becomes 1st NABA woman cycling champion (4:22.4)
1939 The Polish ghetto of Mir is exterminated
1941 US destroyer Greer fires on German submarine U-652
1945 Ruben Fine wins 4 simultaneous rapid chess games blindfolded
1945 US regains possession of Wake Island from Japan
1948 Queen Wilhelmina of Netherlands abdicates
1950 1st helicopter rescue of American pilot behind enemy lines
1950 D McI Hodgson of St Ann Bay, Nova Scotia catches a 997 lb tuna
1951 1st transcontinental TV broadcast, by Pres Truman
1951 NBC extends to become a 61 station coast-to-coast network
1953 Yanks become 1st team to win 5 consecutive championships
1954 1st passage of McClure Strait, fabled Northwest Passage completed
1954 Peter B Cortese of the US achieves a one-arm deadlift of 370 lbs; 22 lbs over triple his body weight, at York, Pennsylvania
1957 Arkansas Gov. Orval Faubus called out the National Guard to prevent nine black students from entering Central High School in Little Rock.
1957 Ford Motor Co introduces the Edsel (Great moments in industry #371)
1961 US authorizes Agency for International Development
1964 NASA launches its 1st Orbital Geophysical Observatory (OGO-1)

1964 "Gilligan's Island" begins its 98-show run on CBS

1965 Beatles' "Help!," single goes #1 & stays #1 for 3 weeks
1966 Houston Oilers holds Denver Broncos to no 1st downs winning 45-7
1967 6.5 earthquake of Kolya Dam India, kills 200
1967 Michigan Gov. George Romney told a TV interviewer he'd undergone a "brainwashing" by U.S. officials during a 1965 visit to Vietnam
1970 George Harrison releases "My Sweet Lord" single
1972 US swimmer Mark Spitz becomes 1st athlete to win 7 olympic gold medals
1976 Palestinians hijack KLM DC-9 to Cyprus
1981 Seattle Mariners beat Boston Red Sox, 8-7, in 20 inn (started 9/3)
1983 Scott Michael Pellaton sets barefoot waterski speed rec (119.36 mph)
1985 Igor Paklin of the USSR set a new high jump world record at 7-11 12
1985 NY Mets Gary Carter's 2 HRs ties record of 5 HRs in 2 games
1986 189.42 million shares traded in NY Stock Exchange
1988 Phoenix Cardinals play 1st regular-season NFL game
1990 Jerry Lewis' 25th Muscular Dystrophy telethon raises $44,172,186
1996 Whitewater prosecutors has Susan McDougal held in contempt for refusing to tell a grand jury whether President Clinton had lied at her trial.
1999 More than 60 people were killed when Chechnyan terrorists detonated a car bomb near an apartment building in Dagestan, Russia.
1999 2nd Million Youth March held in NYC headed by Khalid Abdul Muhammad 1-2 thousand people march and watched over by 1,400 police officers.
2002 President Bush said he would seek congressional approval for any military move on Iraq. He also promised to consult with allies, some of whom were opposed to his "regime change" plan.
2002 Texas cocktail waitress and aspiring pop star Kelly Clarkson is voted the first "American Idol" at the conclusion of the Fox TV series.
2003 Researchers report that the hormone YY3-36 appeared to curb the appetite of obese people.

Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Cahambal (Mayan holiday).
US, Canada, Guam, Virgin Islands : Labor Day (1894) (Monday)
US : Be Late For Something Day
Cook a Great Meal Day
National Ice Cream Sandwich Month

Religious Observances
RC-Vatican City : Triumph of the Cross
RC St-Marinus, hermit/founder (republic San Marino)
RC Ehrentraud, abbess to Salzburg
Luth : Commemoration of Albert Schweitzer, missionary

Religious History
1645 The first Lutheran church building erected in America was dedicated at Easton (near Bethlehem), Pennsylvania.
1802 Birth of Marcus Whitman, American Presbyterian and pioneer medical missionary. In 1836 his family became the first whites to reach the Pacific coast by wagon train. Whitman and his wife Narcissa were murdered by the Cayuse Indians in present-day Washington state in 1847.
1813 "The Religious Remembrancer" (later renamed "The Christian Observer") was first published in Philadelphia. It was the first weekly religious newspaper in the U.S., and in the world.
1847 Anglican clergyman Henry Francis Lyte, 54, suffering from asthma and consumption, penned the words to his hymn, "Abide With Me," before preaching his last sermon in Devonshire, England. (Lyte died 2-1/2 months later.)
1973 The Assemblies of God opened its first theological graduate school in Springfield, MO, making it the second Pentecostal denomination to establish its own school of theology. (The first such school was opened by Oral Roberts in Tulsa.)

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.



A DEVASTATING earthquake will strike California in the next five to ten years -- with a force so powerful it will plunge the rest of the country into the sea, and leave the Golden State intact, experts say.

"For years, people have been saying California will someday fall into the ocean," seismologist Ron Felgar said. "Turns out California will actually be the safest place to be when the big one hits."

Felgar predicted that an earthquake measuring 15.0 on the Richter scale -- the largest in recorded history -- will rock the western United States. California's location directly atop numerous fault lines will cause the impact there to be diffused.

"The damage to the other states will be catastrophic," Felgar said. "Tidal waves will wash around California and swamp the rest of the country. Most of the survivors from the sunken states will head to California, resulting in massive overcrowding.

"If people thought the traffic in L.A. was bad before," he said, "it's about to get a whole lot worse."

Thought for the day :
"In times like these, it helps to recall that there have always been times like these."
Paul Harvey

19 posted on 09/04/2005 8:08:42 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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To: Iris7

One thing hardly ever talked about is WWII airborne electronics intelligence gathering.

Sounds like a subject for a thread.

20 posted on 09/04/2005 8:12:26 AM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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