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The FReeper Foxhole Enjoys a Lazy Sunday - The "Battle" of Palmdale, CA 10-16-56 - Oct. 30, 2005
See educational Sources

Posted on 10/29/2005 8:58:13 PM PDT by alfa6



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

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The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

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THE BATTLE OF PALMDALE,CA 10/16/1947




On the morning of 16 August 1956, Navy personnel at Point Mugu prepared an F6F-5K for its final mission. The aircraft had been painted overall high-visibility red. Red and yellow camera pods were mounted on the wingtips. Radio remote control systems were checked, and the Hellcat took off at 11:34 a.m., climbing out over the Pacific Ocean. As ground controllers attempted to maneuver the drone toward the target area, it became apparent that it was not responding to radio commands. They had a runaway.



Ahead of the unguided drone lay thousands of square miles of ocean into which it could crash. Instead, the old Hellcat made a graceful climbing turn to the southeast, toward the city of Los Angeles. With the threat of a runaway aircraft approaching a major metropolitan area, the Navy called for help.

Five miles north of NAS Point Mugu, two F-89D Scorpion twin-jet interceptors of the 437th Fighter Interceptor Squadron were scrambled from Oxnard Air Force Base. The crews were ordered to shoot down the rogue drone before it could cause any harm. Armed with wingtip-mounted rocket pods and no cannon, the Scorpion was typical of the Cold War approach to countering the "Red Menace." Each pod contained 52 Mighty Mouse 2.75-inch rockets. Salvo-launched, the Mighty Mouse did not have to have precision guidance. Large numbers of rockets would be fired into approaching Soviet bomber formations to overwhelm them with sheer numbers. Today, they would be used against a different kind of red menace.



At Oxnard AFB, 1Lt. Hans Einstein and his radar observer, 1Lt. C. D. Murray, leapt into their sleek F-89D. Simultaneously, 1Lt. Richard Hurliman and 1Lt. Walter Hale climbed into a second aircraft. The interceptors roared south after their target. The hunt was on.

An F-89 Scorpion flies chase for a Snark missle


Einstein and Hurliman caught up with the Hellcat at 30,000 feet, northeast of Los Angeles. It turned southwest, crossing over the city, then headed northwest. As the Hellcat circled lazily over Santa Paula, the interceptor crews waited impatiently. As soon as it passed over an unpopulated area, they would fire their rockets.

Wingtip mounted rocket pod on a F-89


The interceptor crews discussed their options. There were two methods of attack using the fire control system, from a wings level attitude or while in a turn. Since the drone was almost continuously turning, they selected the second mode of attack. In repeated attempts, the rockets failed to fire during these maneuvers. This was later traced to a design fault.

The drone turned northeast, passing Fillmore and Frazier Park. It appeared to be heading toward the sparsely populated western end of the Antelope Valley. Suddenly, it turned southeast toward Los Angeles again. Time seemed to be running out. Einstein and Hurliman decided to abandon the automatic modes, and fire manually. Although the aircraft had been delivered with gun sights, they had been removed a month earlier. After all, why would a pilot need a gun sight to fire unguided rockets with an automatic fire control system?



The interceptors made their first attack run as the Hellcat crossed the mountains near Castaic. Murray and Hale set their intervalometers to "ripple fire" the rockets in three salvos. The first crew lined up their target and fired, missing their target completely. The second interceptor unleashed a salvo that passed just below the drone. Rockets blazed through the sky and then plunged earthward to spark brush fires seven miles north of Castaic. They decimated 150 acres above the old Ridge Route near Bouquet Canyon.

A second salvo from the two jets also missed the drone, raining rockets near the town of Newhall. One bounced across the ground, leaving a string of fires in its wake between the Oak of the Golden Dream Park and the Placerita Canyon oilfield. The fires ignited several oil sumps and burned 100 acres of brush. For a while the blazes raged out of control, threatening the nearby Bermite Powder Company explosives plant. The rockets also ignited a fire in the vicinity of Soledad Canyon, west of Mt. Gleason, burning over 350 acres of heavy brush.



Meanwhile, the errant drone meandered north toward Palmdale. The Scorpion crews readjusted their intervalometers and each fired a final salvo, expending their remaining rockets. Again, the obsolete, unpiloted, unguided, unarmed, propeller-driven drone evaded the state-of-the-art jet interceptors. In all, the jet crews fired 208 rockets without scoring a single hit.

The afternoon calm was shattered as Mighty Mouse rockets fell on downtown Palmdale. Edna Carlson was at home with her six-year-old son William when a chunk of shrapnel burst through her front window, bounced off the ceiling, pierced a wall, and finally came to rest in a pantry cupboard. Another fragment passed through J. R. Hingle's garage and home, nearly hitting Mrs. Lilly Willingham as she sat on the couch. A Leona Valley teenager, Larry Kempton, was driving west on Palmdale Boulevard with his mother in the passenger seat when a rocket exploded on the street in front of him. Fragments blew out his left front tire, and put numerous holes in the radiator, hood, windshield, and even the firewall. Miraculously, no one was injured by any of the falling rockets. Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams later recovered 13 duds in the vicinity of Palmdale. It took 500 firefighters two days to bring the brushfires under control.



Oblivious to the destruction in its wake, the drone passed over the town. Its engine sputtered and died as the fuel supply dwindled. The red Hellcat descended in a loose spiral toward an unpopulated patch of desert eight miles east of Palmdale Airport. Just before impact, the drone sliced through a set of three Southern California Edison power lines along an unpaved section of Avenue P. The camera pod on the airplane's right wingtip dug into the sand and the Hellcat cartwheeled and disintegrated. There was no fire. So ended the epic "Battle" of Palmdale.

Educational Resources

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/northrop/f-89j.htm
(F-89 Scorpion)

http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/15628.html
(History News)

http://www.thexhunters.com/xpeditions/f6f-5k.html
(X-Hunters)




FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links




TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: f89scorpions; freeperfoxhole; hellcats; history; veterans
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1 posted on 10/29/2005 8:58:15 PM PDT by alfa6
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To: alfa6


Showcasing America's finest, and those who betray them!


Please click on the banner above and check out this newly created (and still under construction) website created by FReeper Coop!



Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization.





Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.

Thanks to quietolong for providing this link.



We here at Blue Stars For A Safe Return are working hard to honor all of our military, past and present, and their families. Inlcuding the veterans, and POW/MIA's. I feel that not enough is done to recognize the past efforts of the veterans, and remember those who have never been found.

I realized that our Veterans have no "official" seal, so we created one as part of that recognition. To see what it looks like and the Star that we have dedicated to you, the Veteran, please check out our site.

Veterans Wall of Honor

Blue Stars for a Safe Return



NOW UPDATED THROUGH JULY 31st, 2004




The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul

Click on Hagar for
"The FReeper Foxhole Compiled List of Daily Threads"


LINK TO FOXHOLE THREADS INDEXED by PAR35

2 posted on 10/29/2005 8:58:58 PM PDT by alfa6 (Work....the curse of the drinking class.)
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To: alfa6; Allen H; Colonial Warrior; texianyankee; vox_PL; Bigturbowski; ruoflaw; Bombardier; ...



"FALL IN" to the FReeper Foxhole!



Good Sunday Morning Everyone.

If you want to be added to our occasional ping list, let us know.


3 posted on 10/29/2005 9:00:52 PM PDT by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: alfa6

LOL!
Yikes, decimating acres of forest, and not at all harming the drone..
Did heads roll due to this?


4 posted on 10/29/2005 9:07:34 PM PDT by Darksheare (If you shake a stick of garlic butter at a vampire, will it keep him away?)
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To: alfa6

Well back to the drawing boards, I always thought that the air to air rockets had self destruction fuzes but in this case, I guess not. They had a lot of strange fuzes for that program.

The major problem with the 2.75" rocket was them hitting each other and sheading their fins which were then injested by the jet engines.

Growing up, the F89 was high up on my neat looking airplane list.


5 posted on 10/29/2005 9:21:19 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (LET ME KNOW WHERE HANOI JANE FONDA IS WHEN SHE TOURS)
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To: Darksheare
In my research I did not see of any heads rolling. I guess the F-89 pilots had never heard of "Doodlebug Tipping"

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

6 posted on 10/29/2005 9:32:16 PM PDT by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: U S Army EOD
I to thought that it was kinda cool, however it was a real bear to fly from what I've read. The F-89 was a bit underpowered IIRC.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

7 posted on 10/29/2005 9:34:09 PM PDT by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: alfa6; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; bentfeather; Darksheare; PhilDragoo; Matthew Paul; Wneighbor; ...
Good morning everyone!

To all our military men and women past and present, military family members, and to our allies who stand beside us
Thank You!


8 posted on 10/29/2005 9:38:36 PM PDT by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: Darksheare; All
Ah, here is the painting I was looking for in referrence to "DoodleBug Tipping"

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

9 posted on 10/29/2005 9:38:55 PM PDT by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: alfa6

They probably didn't want their rocket pods to touch the Hellcat as it would likely explode the pods if they weren't careful..


10 posted on 10/29/2005 9:42:04 PM PDT by Darksheare (If you shake a stick of garlic butter at a vampire, will it keep him away?)
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To: alfa6

So at least 6% of the rockets were duds. It also sounds like they didn't have proximity fuses. They should have gotten some Nazis to run the program.


11 posted on 10/29/2005 9:48:37 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35

Actually the Germans never did get their version of the primity fuse to work. Seems that the Nazi's couldn't figure out where to put the antenna on the shell. The Americans came up with a simple solution to this problem. They made the shell the antenna.

The proximity fuse was responsible for over a fivefold increase in the effectiveness if the 5"/38 cal naval rifle in the AA role. Prior to the intoduction of the proxinity fuse over 1500 rounds of 5" fire were required to down an aircraft. After the proximity fuse was introduced the numbers of round needed was down to just over 300 IIRC.

Link to a brief history of the Proximity Fuse

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq96-1.htm

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


12 posted on 10/29/2005 9:58:17 PM PDT by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: alfa6

That didn't always work out very well, especially if the fuze was armed on the V1 and the impact was a little hard.


13 posted on 10/29/2005 10:15:49 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (LET ME KNOW WHERE HANOI JANE FONDA IS WHEN SHE TOURS)
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To: alfa6
"Sic transit gloria mundi", as they say. Better, "Pride goeth before the fall". Hubris leads to nemesis.

A bit like the torpedo business in WWII. The upper brass just don't want to hear that they have hatched out a POS.

Trying to be a little more charitable (me??!!) I've been told that ADs have destroyed MIGs attacking them. Perhaps apocryphal GI legends.
14 posted on 10/30/2005 2:35:51 AM PST by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father.")
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To: alfa6

Good morning to everyone at the Foxhole.


15 posted on 10/30/2005 3:02:25 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: alfa6

On This Day In History


Birthdates which occurred on October 30:
1391 Eduard [Dom Duarte], King of Portugal (1433-38)

1735 John Adams Braintree, Mass (F) 2nd pres (1797-1801)

1751 Richard Brinsley Sheridan playwright (School for Scandal)
1807 James Samuel Wadsworth Bvt Major General (Union volunteers)
1821 Feodor Mikhailovich Dostoevski Russian novelist & short-story writer (The Brothers Karamazov)
1830 John S Bowen Major-General (Confederate)
1873 Francisco Madero Mexico, revolutionary, president (1911-13)
1882 William "Bull" F Halsey, US vice-admiral (WW II Pacific)
1885 Ezra Pound Hailey, Idaho, poet (Cantos)
1893 Charles Atlas body builder
1896 Ruth Gordon Mass, actress (Rosemary's Baby, Harold & Maude)
1914 Marion Ladewig Mich, bowler (9 time woman bowler of year 1950-63)
1918 Ted Williams Red Sox hitter (AL MVP '46, '49; Triple Crown '42, '47)
1919 Jane Randolph singer, backup for Tony Orlando (Dawn)
1924 Hannelore Weygrand German FR, equestrian dressage (Oly-silver-1956)
1931 Dick Gautier LA Calif, actor (Hymie-Get Smart, Mr Terrific)
1936 Jim Perry pitcher (Cy Young Award 1970)
1939 Grace Slick Chicago, rock vocalist (Jefferson Airplane-White Rabbit)
1940 Ed Lauter Long Beach NY, actor (Sheriff Cain-BJ & the Bear)
1945 Henry Winkler NYC, actor (Fonz-Happy Days, Night Shift, Crossing Jordan )
1946 Andrea Mitchell NYC, newscaster (NBC-TV, Summer Sunday USA)
1946 Robert L "Hoot" Gibson Cooperstown NY, USN/ast (STS 41B, 61C, 27)
1951 Harry Hamlin Pasadena Calif, actor (Michael Kuzak-LA Law)
1957 Aleksandr I Lazutkin Russian cosmonaut
1965 Charnele Brown East Hampton NY, actress (Kim-A Different World)
1969 Brittany Gae Thompson Portland Oregon, Miss Oregon-America (1991)



Deaths which occurred on October 30:
1583 Pirro Ligorio, Italian architect/painter/archaeologist, dies at 83
1611 Karl IX King of Sweden (1604-11), dies
1632 Henri de Montmorency, French duke/plotter, beheaded
1893 Sir John Abbott PM of Canada (C) (1891-92), dies at 72
1984 Mario Gallo actor (Delvecchio), dies at 61
1985 Kirby Grant Hoon Jr., Butte Mont, actor (Sky King), dies in an auto accident at 74
1988 John Houseman, actor (Paper Chase), dies at 86
1991 William Shea (Shea Stadium namesake), dies at 84
1995 Terry Southern, writer (Candy, The Magic Christian), dies at 71
1997 Sam Fuller, director/writer (Big Red One), dies at 86
2000 Steve Allen comedian, television host, author and composer dies age 78.



Take A Moment To Remember
GWOT Casualties

Iraq
30-Oct-2004 8 | US: 8 | UK: 0 | Other: 0
US Private 1st Class John Lukac Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Sergeant Kelley L. Courtney Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Private 1st Class Andrew G. Riedel Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Lance Corporal John T. Byrd II Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Corporal Christopher J. Lapka Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Lance Corporal Travis A. Fox Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Lance Corporal Michael P. Scarborough Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb
US Lance Corporal Jeremy D. Bow Fallujah - Anbar Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb



Afghanistan
10/30/03 Sweeney, Paul A. Staff Sergeant 32 Army 3rd Battalion, 3rd Special Forces Group Hostile fire Musa Qaleh, Oruzgan Province


http://icasualties.org/oif/
Data research by Pat Kneisler
Designed and maintained by Michael White
//////////
Go here and I'll stop nagging.
http://soldiersangels.org/heroes/index.php


On this day...
0701 John VI begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1270 The seventh crusade ends with the treaty of Barbary
1485 King Henry VII Tudor crowned, after defeating the forces of King Richard III at Bosworth Field
1534 English Parliament passes Act of Supremacy, making King Henry VIII head of the English church
1864 Helena, Montana's capital, founded
1866 Jesse James gang robs bank in Lexington Missouri ($2000)
1888 1st ballpoint pen patented
1905 "October Manifesto" Russian Tsar Nicholas II grants civil liberties
1917 British govt gives final approval to Balfour Declaration
1918 Slovakia asks for creation of Czechoslovakian state
1918 Turkey signs an armistice with the Allies, agreeing to end hostilities at noon, October 31
1919 Baseball league presidents call for abolishment of the spitball
1922 Mussolini forms cabinet in Italy
1925 KUT-AM in Austin TX begins radio transmissions
1938 Orson Welles panics a nation with broadcast of "War of the Worlds"
1939 USSR & Germany agree on partitioning Poland
1941 The U.S. destroyer Reuben James, on convoy duty off Iceland, is sunk by a German U-boat with the loss of 96 Americans.
USS REUBEN JAMES (FFG 57)
Back with a Vengeance
http://www.reuben-james.navy.mil/index1024x768.htm
1944 Anne Frank (of Diary fame) is deported from Auschwitz to Belsen
1944 Aaron Copland's "Appalachian Spring," premieres in Wash DC
1945 US government announces end of shoe rationing
1948 20 die & 6,000 made ill by smog in Donora Pennsylvania
1950 The First Marine Division moves up to the Chosin Reservoir
1953 Dr Albert Schweitzer & Gen George C Marshall win Nobel Peace Prize


1954 Defense Department announces elimination of all segregated regiments


1956 Israel captures Egyptian militay post at El-Thamad
1961 Soviet Party Congress unanimously approves a resolution removing Josef Stalin's body from Lenin's tomb in Red Square
1961 Soviet Union tests a 58 megaton hydrogen bomb
1967 USSR Kosmos 186 & 188 make 1st automatic docking & Venmera 13 launch
1972 Worst US rail accident in 14 years; 45 die in Chicago
1973 Tom Seaver becomes 1st non-20-game winner to win Cy Young award
1974 Muhammad Ali KOs George Foreman in 8th round in Kinshasa, Zaire (The Rumble in the Jungle)
1974 "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre” was released in Los Angeles.
1975 Juan Carlos assumes power in Spain
1975 NY Daily News runs headline "Ford to City: Drop Dead"
1976 Rev Joseph Evans elected president of the United Church of Christ
1979 NASA launches space vehicle S-203
1980 Honduras & El Salvador settle their boundary dispute
1985 22nd Space Shuttle Mission (61-A)-Challenger 9-launched
1988 2 gambling clubs & 1 player share 61.38 M California lotto jackpot
1988 NY Jets finally beat Pittsburgh Steelers for 1st time

1989 Smith Dairy at Orrville, Ohio, makes the worlds largest milk shake (1,575.2 gal).

1991 Mid East peace conference begins in Madrid Spain
1996 Michael Kahoe, who ran the FBI's violent crime division, pleaded guilty to obstructing justice, admitting he destroyed a report which detailed FBI misconduct in the 1992 Idaho standoff that killed Randy Weaver's wife and teenage son at Ruby Ridge..
1993 Martin Fettman, America's first veterinarian in space, chopped the heads off six rats and performed the world's first animal dissections in space, aboard the shuttle Columbia.
1996 After a four-hour trial, a Chinese court sentenced pro-democracy activist Wang Dan to 11 years in prison for "conspiring to subvert the Chinese government." (Wang was freed in April 1998 and sent into exile in the United States.)
2001 Yasser al-Siri, an Egyptian "activist", charged in London in connection with the assassination in Afghanistan of Ahmed Shah Massood, a Northern Alliance leader.
(Released 29 July 2002)
2002 Walter Mondale replaces the late Sen. Wellstone for US Senate seat. Mondale ended up losing to Republican Norm Coleman.
2003 US House approves an $87.5 billion package for Iraq and Afghanistan


Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Bhutan : Descending Day of Lord Buddha from Heaven.
World Temperance Sunday.
National Candy Corn Day
National Save Your Back Week Ends
National Pizza Month


Religious Observances
Unification Church : Children's Day
Christ : Feast of St Alphonsus
Feast of St. Serapion, Bishop and confessor.
Feast of Christ the King.


Religious History
1536 Thirteen years after Lutheran ministers came to bring spiritual renewal to its people, Denmark adopted Lutheranism as its official state religion.
1738 English founder of Methodism John Wesley explained in a letter: 'By a "Christian," I mean one who so believes in Christ as that sin hath no more dominion over him.'
1768 The Wesley Chapel on John Street in New York City was dedicated. It was the first Methodist church building to be erected in the American colonies, and was restored in 1817, and again in 1840.
1902 Pope Leo XIII published the apostolic letter "Vigilantiae," which officially established the Pontifical Commission of Biblical Studies. Created to safeguard the authority of Scripture from outside secular criticism, in 1904 the Commission was empowered to confer academic degrees.
1976 Dr. Joseph H. Evans was elected president of the United Church of Christ. It made him the first African-American leader of this predominantly white denomination.

Source: William D. Blake. ALMANAC OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1987.


BIGFOOT TO JOIN THE CAST OF 'THE SOPRANOS'


By MARK MILLER
Los Angeles, Calif.

ALL of Hollywood is abuzz with the incredible rumor that an actual Bigfoot will join the cast of the hit HBO series The Sopranos playing a mob boss called Biggy the Foot.

A reliable inside source reveals that execs have their hearts set on the recently proposed idea.

"It's the perfect choice for a number of reasons," states the source. "First, no one's ever used a Bigfoot before to play a fictitious character on a high-profile TV series. Since people associate Bigfoot with size, strength, power and ruthlessness, it's ideal because those are the same qualities associated with Mob bosses."

Weekly World News has acquired a copy of the script, in which Biggy the Foot arrives in New Jersey to challenge Tony Soprano's power and position. There is also a romantic sub-plot in which Biggy the Foot seduces Tony's wife, Carmela, when Tony is away at the Bada Bing nightclub. As Carmela melts into his arms, he growls, "Once you've tried Biggy the Foot, you can never go back." Later, Tony confronts Carmella, screaming at her, "What is it -- I'm not @#*$%& hairy enough for you!?"

In another powerful scene, Tony and Biggy the Foot meet for the first time:

Tony: What is it you want, Biggy, you fat @#*$%&!?

Biggy: You know what I want, Soprano. I want your territory, your house, your wife, and your daughter. You can keep your @#*$%& son.

Tony: (DRAWING GUN) You want the first bullet through your head or through your @#*$%& @#*$%&!?

Although the Bigfoot is a relative newcomer to dramatic TV roles, he is by no means a newcomer to show business. His resume includes years of work in community theater. He has also worked as a street musician, a mime at several Renaissance Fairs, a fire-eater and as a juggler for spare change in the park.

In preparation for his first major dramatic role, Bigfoot has been studying with famed Hollywood acting coach Miles Duvalier. He is also watching many classic gangster films, studying the stars' techniques.

"I especially admire the early work of George Raft, Edward G. Robinson, and Humphrey Bogart," reveals the Bigfoot. "And more recently, I learned a lot from observing Brando in The Godfather and Pacino in Scarface."

As this next season will most likely be the final one for The Sopranos, there is talk of spinning Bigfoot off into his own series. "I'd love to do something light -- perhaps a sitcom," the Bigfoot confides. "Maybe one where I play the dad. And if Kirstie Alley is available to play my wife -- she's the perfect size for me."


Thought for the day :
"No matter how big or soft or warm your bed is, you still have to get out of it."
Grace Slick


16 posted on 10/30/2005 5:51:07 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: alfa6

Rockets blazed through the sky and then plunged earthward to spark brush fires seven miles north of Castaic. They decimated 150 acres above the old Ridge Route near Bouquet Canyon.

A second salvo from the two jets also missed the drone, raining rockets near the town of Newhall. One bounced across the ground, leaving a string of fires in its wake between the Oak of the Golden Dream Park and the Placerita Canyon oilfield. The fires ignited several oil sumps and burned 100 acres of brush. For a while the blazes raged out of control, threatening the nearby Bermite Powder Company explosives plant. The rockets also ignited a fire in the vicinity of Soledad Canyon, west of Mt. Gleason, burning over 350 acres of heavy brush.





Gravity, it's not just a good idea.....it's the law.


17 posted on 10/30/2005 5:53:33 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: alfa6
In all, the jet crews fired 208 rockets without scoring a single hit.

You think they would have learned, the F-4 originally did not have any guns because it was the "rocket age", the finally put on gun pods. Thanks for a very interesting Lazy Sunday story alfa6. :-)

18 posted on 10/30/2005 6:10:43 AM PST by SAMWolf (The cost of feathers has risen, now even down is up)
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To: alfa6
Miraculously, no one was injured by any of the falling rockets.

Good thing, otherwise this wouldn't have been so hysterically funny to read. :-)

19 posted on 10/30/2005 6:38:34 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin
Gravity, it's not just a good idea.....it's the law.

LOL!

20 posted on 10/30/2005 6:41:31 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf

Shouldn't you two be working, instead of lollygaging here?


21 posted on 10/30/2005 7:05:44 AM PST by Valin (Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum)
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To: alfa6; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Valin; radu; Professional Engineer; Peanut Gallery; Samwise; ...

Good Sunday morning everyone.

22 posted on 10/30/2005 8:00:11 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: alfa6; bentfeather; snippy_about_it; Samwise; Peanut Gallery; Wneighbor; SAMWolf; Valin; Iris7; ...
Good morning ladies and gents. Flag-o-Gram.

U.S. Army Spc. Lauren Kostoff and Chief Warrant Officer 3 Tammy Kostoff [SpankenTruppen Recruit] stand together during a visit at Forward Operating Base Warrior, Iraq. Mother and son are both members of the Montana Army National Guard assigned to Task Force Liberty in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom 3. U.S. Army photo

23 posted on 10/30/2005 8:12:16 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Iris7

Skyraiders accounted for at least one MiG in both Korea and Vietnam. The MiG kills usually occured when the MiG pilots would make thew mistake of managing to fly low and slow in front of the Skyraider.

Jet jockeys tend to forget how manuverable a slow moving prop plane is relative to a jet or faster moving aircraft. I recall reading a book by a Swordfish pilot during WW-II. The Swordfish pilots had worked out a manuver routine that when used against a ME-109 or similar aircraft would put the Swordfish on the tail of the enemy A/C most of the time.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


24 posted on 10/30/2005 8:13:15 AM PST by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: Professional Engineer

Morning, PE. Fine Flag-o-gram today. Inspiring even, Mother and son.


25 posted on 10/30/2005 8:14:43 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: alfa6

LOL. There are alot of neat little episodes like this from the early part of the Cold War. Thanks for the thread.


26 posted on 10/30/2005 8:18:30 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Valin
1735 John Adams Braintree, Mass (F) 2nd pres (1797-1801)

I've been reading John Adams by David McCullough. This an excerpt from a letter sent by John Adams to his son, John Quincy Adams:

Public business, my son, must always be done by somebody. It will be done by somebody or other. If wise men decline it, others will not; if honest men refuse it, others will not. A young man should weigh well his plans. Integrity should be preserved in all events, as essential to his happiness, through every stage of his existence. His first maxim should be to place his honor out of reach of all men. In order to do this he must make it a rule never to become dependent on public employments for subsistence. Let him have a trade, a profession, a farm, a shop, something where he can honestly live, and then he may engage in public affairs, if invited, upon independent principles. My advice to my children is to maintain an independent character.

It'd sure be a change if modern statesman believed this way.

27 posted on 10/30/2005 8:23:08 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Professional Engineer

Now that is cool! Mother and son...


28 posted on 10/30/2005 8:27:57 AM PST by Peanut Gallery
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To: Valin
1918 Slovakia asks for creation of Czechoslovakian state

Giving a homeland for these guys.


29 posted on 10/30/2005 8:28:45 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: bentfeather

Hi miss Feather.

Bittygirl announced her hunger this morning by toting in a bowl and a box of cereal, saying "this" several times.


30 posted on 10/30/2005 8:34:01 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Professional Engineer

Oh bless her heart. I can see her doing it. She is so precious.


31 posted on 10/30/2005 8:36:34 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: bentfeather; snippy_about_it

I couldn't resist the SpankenTruppen angle on this one. LOL


32 posted on 10/30/2005 8:37:24 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: bentfeather

Friday, after the plans had bee issued, I offered to take all my guys out for a beer to relax a bit.

Over the course of the day, one by one, they all begged of for one reason or another. At the same time I decided, hey we're all REALLY tired, pumping beer into us is likely to make somebody fall asleep on the way home. I postponed the celebration for a few days, and was meet with 100% approval.


33 posted on 10/30/2005 8:43:32 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Professional Engineer

Cool. They're excellent recruits for the Spankentruppen!


34 posted on 10/30/2005 9:20:25 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin

LOL. We actually get to sleep late, eat breakfast and lollygag on Sunday! Yippee. We are open from 11-4 on Sundays and with turning the clocks back last night it nearly feels like a day off!


35 posted on 10/30/2005 9:23:14 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Valin

This week's forcast. :-)

Today
Patchy fog in the morning. Mostly cloudy with a chance of showers. Highs 55 to 60. Southeast wind 5 to 10 mph.

Tonight
Rain likely. Lows around 45. Southeast wind 5 to 15 mph.

Monday
Rain. Highs around 60. Southwest wind 15 to 20 mph.

Monday Night
Rain likely. Lows 45 to 50. South wind 5 to 10 mph.

Tuesday
Rain likely. Highs around 60. Southeast wind 5 to 10 mph shifting to the south in the afternoon.

Tuesday Night
Rain. Lows around 45.

Wednesday
Rain likely. Highs 50 to 55.

Wednesday Night
Rain likely. Lows around 45.

Thursday
Rain likely. Highs around 55.

Thursday Night
Showers likely. Lows around 40.

Friday
Showers likely. Highs 45 to 50.

Friday Night
Showers likely. Lows around 40.

Saturday
Showers likely. Highs 45 to 50.


36 posted on 10/30/2005 9:28:20 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Professional Engineer

Ah good thinking. Beer is good sometimes and sometimes not so good. Everyone is safe with a clear head due to their and your decision to postpone.


37 posted on 10/30/2005 9:50:21 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: snippy_about_it

Morning snippy, warm up here in the North East, temps going into the low 60s, woo hoo. Oh, we have sun, too.


38 posted on 10/30/2005 9:52:44 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: bentfeather; snippy_about_it; Samwise; Wneighbor; Peanut Gallery
Bittygirl got her very first ponytail this morning.


39 posted on 10/30/2005 9:56:51 AM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: bentfeather

Good morning feather. The sun is out here this morning, cool temps.


40 posted on 10/30/2005 10:04:02 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Professional Engineer

Cutie pie!


41 posted on 10/30/2005 10:04:39 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Professional Engineer

Oh dear, now you have done it. I love it!!!!!

Adorable!! Oh my gosh, she is a darling.


42 posted on 10/30/2005 10:30:00 AM PST by Soaring Feather
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To: Professional Engineer
To me John Adams seems the last man of the Right to hold the Presidential Office.

Henry Adams (John's great-grandson) wrote acutely about the great loss of meaning in modern life, the idea that in the balance more had been lost through Modernity than gained, evincing a sort of sentimental Right-ishness while he himself lived a life of late 19th Century liberalness (in the modern sense of the word).

The Old Republic did not last very long. Pretty dead by Charles River Bridge.

Standard view of the story:
http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/case/70/print

Justice Joseph Story's dissent:
http://courses.missouristate.edu/ftm922f/Documents/Cases/charlesrbridge--storydisnt.htm

Perhaps you might ask if I miss the Old Republic? I do. Does that make me a man of the Right? Like John Adams? Very likely.

43 posted on 10/30/2005 10:46:35 AM PST by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father.")
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To: Iris7

Interesting. I don't recall hearing of this case before.


44 posted on 10/30/2005 12:10:40 PM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: Professional Engineer; bentfeather; SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Iris7; colorado tanker; PAR35; All

Speaking of beer, thought y'all might enjoy this ad from OZ.

http://www.bigad.com.au/

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


45 posted on 10/30/2005 12:43:33 PM PST by alfa6 (He who hath so hath who he)
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To: alfa6

LOL. Great ad!


46 posted on 10/30/2005 12:48:06 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Iris7
... yet it has never been understood, at least, never in our republic, that the sovereign power can take the private property of A. and give it to B., by the right of 'eminent domain;' or, that it can take it at all, except for public purposes; or, that it can take it for public purposes, without the duty and responsibility of making compensation for the sacrifice of the private property of one, for the good of the whole. These limitations have been held to be fundamental axioms in free governments like ours;

That beautiful Republic of old is most certainly gone.

47 posted on 10/30/2005 12:53:18 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: Professional Engineer

boy, talk about an interesting situation. Kids look forward to be on own & leaving home. Here the smiling kid has as his superior officer his MOM!


48 posted on 10/30/2005 2:14:14 PM PST by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your s God is!)
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To: DollyCali

Ironic isn't it. LOL


49 posted on 10/30/2005 6:17:29 PM PST by Professional Engineer (Have you had your Tchaikovsky fix today?)
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To: snippy_about_it; Professional Engineer
In Marbury (1803) Marshall argued that the Supreme Court had the power to determine what was Constitutional or Unconstitutional. The argument is essentially "If the Supreme Court can't have the last say, then who? The Constitution is a law, and whether a law is broken is a matter for the courts."

This one caused even more damage than Charles River Bridge.

Hey, I am a history buff!! Spent a lot of time trying to figure out what happened after the war.

Chief Justice Marshall's opinion in Marbury vs. Madison (1803)
50 posted on 10/30/2005 7:23:17 PM PST by Iris7 ("Let me go to the house of the Father.")
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