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The FReeper Foxhole - One Vietnam Vets Battle with the VA - Dec.17th, 2002

Posted on 12/17/2002 5:37:35 AM PST by SAMWolf

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In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

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One P.O.ed Viet Nam Vet


Perhaps I should call this The Not So Great American Novel by Jim K. Except I did not author this work. I was only the observer who wrote it down. It was authored by thousands of people throughout my life. Some of those were / are very good people. Others were complete shit-heads. Many were just lazy, and paid to do a job that was way above their abilities. Perhaps that is the real tragedy of The Not So Great American Novel. I will try to retell this story with as little personal slant as possible. I do not want to color this merely due to my views. It should be seen in a harsh but white light to bring forth the flaws in the system. But I can only say as I recall I saw it. And obviously I had a single view point, so obviously my view point was some what slanted. To those that I wrong I am sorry. Show me where I am wrong and I will change it.

Hi, I am a disabled Viet-Nam Veteran. For physical disability I am considered 60%, but because I am unemployable due to my condition, I am considered 100% disabled for unemployability. To be truthful this page is going to be hard to write, since when I think of how the V.A. has treated me, it gets me so enraged that it tends to ruin my whole week. I must state here that I really have little problem with most V.A. Medical Facilities. Most are very slow, but very good. My problems tends to be with many of the staff of the non-medical facilities.

The next section tells about my long time battle with the V.A. If you are a Disabled Veteran and do not want to read about my problems thats OK. Go to the end of these pages for information to help you fight your battle against the V.A. Do Not feel badly that you can not handle my problems. I know how you feel. There has been many times when listening to how the V.A. screwed up other Vets, would have driven me over the edge, and very close to homicidal.

While reading this do not get the idea that there was anything unusual about the Viet Nam Veteran when compared to other War Veterans. Post Viet Nam Stress Syndrom was not new. Many Veterans from WWII and Korea suffered a similar fate. I recall Miss Tamblyn a Medical Technology Professor at Cal State LA. She once told me thst prior to WWII she had been so in love with a wonderful man. He went off to war, and when he came back he had changed completely. In the European Theater my uncle had to eat some of his meals sitting on dead bodies, because "There was no place else to sit". Do not expect people to go through such things without serious mental stress. And never expect them to be the same again. My uncle is a wonderful man, but that is only in spite of WWII. I know Korean Veterans that are the same, as are some of the Viet Nam Refugees. It is just a matter of time before the Bosnia Refugees come to the US, and many of them will also have been over-stressed. Occasionally I see a person on the streets, and I can just tell that they have gone through a horrible situation. Maybe it was war maybe not, but the scares are in their eyes.

After completing 2 year of junior college, with a A.A. in General Sciences. I had joined the Navy Reserve because I though that I could help fight the Viet Nam War. We were to be on active duty for 2 years. I volunteered for 4 months more to go to Gun Fire Radar Repair School during the summer of 1969.

In January 1970 I went active for real, and was assigned to the U.S.S. Regulus - AF-57 a refrigeration supply ship. In the summer we went to Viet Nam, returning in the fall. We went again in 1971 about the same time. But this time when we left San Francisco, I had a sore throat (later I was to find out that this was Strep Throat).

For the next 3 months I got sicker and sicker. I would go to the Corpsman office and be told "Yes we know that you are sick, but we are undermanned. Can you keep working?" I figured that Hell Yes, they need me. So in those 3 months I lost 30 pounds. For the last month I had numerous problems. I threw up after every meal (later I figured out that it was just too cold). I was constantly tired. And for the last 2 weeks I was throwing bacterial embolisms.

Finally I was put in the Naval Hospital in Subic Bay, Philippines (the home of Olongapo). I was diagnosed to have bacterial endocardidis (a bacterial infection of the heart lining). This became apparent when I quickly developed a heart murmur, and I was found to have Streptococcus Viridian bacteria in my blood. For the next 3 months I was under treatment, and sent back to the states.

The Navy said that I was fit for duty and was going to send me back out to sea. I figured that they really did not know what they were doing, and since my time was up I left the Navy in January 1972. A couple of months later it was confirmed that the Navy did not know what they were doing because the Navy Doctors said I had mitral valve damage, and a V.A. doctor told me no it was the aortic valve (considerably more dangerous.)

I really do not have a problem with the Corpsmen. They do what they were trained to do. They tend to be very good with large gapping wounds with lots of blood, and VD They just never received the training required for other serious illness. I do not even have a problem with this disease being allowed to go so far. After all "We were in the combat zone, and undermanned".

This is where the problems started. The non-medical V.A. personnel kept saying "We can find no evidence that you have a problem". I figured that they were there to help the Vets so they must be going by the books. This was such a error in judgment on my part that it is unbelievable.

I had a hint something was wrong when I went to college. I figured that it would be a good idea to become a Medical Technologist, since I could keep a eye on my heart condition better. But I also thought that the V.A. has specialist in employment, and it would be foolish if I did not have them help me.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: freeperfoxhole; medical; va; veterans; vietnam
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So I went for a interview with a V.A. Ph.D. at 11000 Wilshire, in West Los Angeles, California. This idiot advised me to work in construction for a while, as he had. I pointed out that I had a serious heart problem. Then he could not come up with another idea. I said I would like to be trained to be a Disabled American Veterans Service Office. He said "Absolutely Not!" I was taken aback somewhat by his abruptness and asked what was wrong with that? His statement was basically that they just trick the government into wasting money. I asked for more information. He then said that they help the blacks get 100% disability, and then the blacks go out and marry some woman with 10 children, and the V.A. has to pay for them. And then the V.A. pays the wife for helping the Veteran around the house. Then he blew up and said that some of them get paid more then he does. He also said "Well the U.S. can not afford to pay for all of the damages done to the Veteran's".

This absolute ASSHOLE. There is some poor Veteran that had bite the bullet hard, needs help, and wants a family. Was lying there unable to do much anymore. I know that this ASSHOLE was not going to make housecalls, when that Veteran felt like killing himself. If the U.S. can not afford to pay the disabled Veterans for their injuries, how can the Disabled Veteran afford to not be paid. And the best advise that this absolute Jerk could give a heart patient was "Work in construction!" What a idiot! Those Veterans whether they are black, white , brown or green deserved 10 times what he was paid. And they did not have a choice if the military would screw them up or not. They had to live with the cards that the military and the V.A. dealt them 24 hours a day. Come rain or shine they were still disabled, they will never get a vacation from it. And he complains that they are given too much. The U.S. can not afford to pay idiots like him to spread their Bull-shit. I know that HELL waits with a especially hot corner for S.O.B.s like Dr. M. To be truthful I hope that he lives a very long and lonely life, because I want to damn him from my death bed. Also I hope the last 50 years of his life is spent in some V.A. hell hole that is hidden away, being cared for by people with a similar additude to what he showed. But if he should die before me, and I ever find out where he is buried, "What I leave on his grave will not be mistaken for roses!" Just maybe he had a very bad day or week, but many of us have had a fairly bad life since we returned.

In 1974 I had my first open heart surgery, in which my Aortic valve was replaced with metal one. The V.A. did not give the Social Security my medical papers for 8 months so it took the Social Security 9 months to get me money. It took the V.A. 1 year to find that I was 100% disabled for 4 months, and 60% for the rest of the year. This started when I entered the hospital for open heart surgery. I had entered it 1 month earlier in heart failure (could not breath, and was swelled up like a pig), was hospitalized for 2 weeks and sent home to wait for surgery. But the ^&%#^ at the V.A. "Could find no evidence that I was disabled during this time." After that year the V.A. could find "NO evidence of continued disability, more than 30%". And 30% is the lowest that the V.A. could find me to be after having had my heart valve replaced.

By the way when in the hospital in heart failure, my classmates graduated from Cal State L.A. I should have but was too tired to complete my classes. And some would not be given for another year.

In 1975 I graduated with a B.S. in Medical Technology. I had started to work on a Masters Degree in Criminalistics (Police Scientist - Chemist). In 1976 I had tried to become a Criminalist with L.A.P.D. After my Disabled Veteran's points were given I was #1. But I failed the physical examination (a friend who was high up in one of the L.A. City Personnel Departments, told me that they DO NOT hire people with heart problems or back problems). The County of L.A. would hire me temporary, but I was not healthy enough to do the work permanently. In April, 1978 close to completion of my Masters I started work in a Sheriff's Crime Lab. To be hired I had to sign a waiver stating that I would not be eligible to retire due to heart condition. In the spring of 1982, I caught strep throat again, and that gave me endocarditis again. It took out my aortic valve again. So I was hospitalized again. This time for about 2 months. As I was finally beginning to leave the hospital one of the Doctors told me that he did not know the exact odds for me, but in general the odds of surviving endocarditis, when one already has a artificial valve is 30%. NOT TOO GOOD, but I made it.

In the summer of 1982 I went into heart failure again, and needed to have my aortic valve replaced again. This time it only took the V.A. about 3 months to find me 100% disabled for 1 year. This is because the rules changed. And then those worthless bastards "Could find no evidence of my continued disability above 30%". As a added benefit from the surgery, 30 days after it on the day that I was released from the hospital I spiked a 102+ degree fever. So I went back in for another 30 days. Later it was thought that I had caught mono-nucleosis from the blood transfusion (considering that this was 1982 in Los Angeles I was lucky that I did not cache AIDS.

After that I never really felt right. But it would take almost 10 more years for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome to become a in thing. And longer for the average Doctor to recognize it. So after returning from work I would eat diner and go to sleep around 7:30 in the evening, and wake up around 7:30 in the morning. Every other Wednesday when I had built up sick leave or vacation time I would stay home and rest. Every Saturday I would rest. But then Sunday was mine, and Monday back to work.

In 1987 I was tired of the politics at work, and quit. It took 1 ½ years for me to calm down enough to do a fairly good job interview. It was with Orange County, California. They wanted me and I wanted them, but then the physical, and they found me physically unfit to be a chemist. So then it was more arguing with the V.A. they kept coming to the conclusion that I could work. But they would have to be total idiots to not know that nobody is going to willingly hire someone after 2 open heart surgeries. And to top that I had been having very serious arryhmias for several years. By 1990 I was having frequent tachycardia = everyday and it sometimes lasted for minutes, and one time 3 hours. That 3 hour time I had to go into a emergency room to have my heart jump (cardio version) started out of it. Also while being tested by EMS, I have had to be jump started 2 more times.

This brings up more assinine stupidity. On Saturday November 12th. 1988 I noticed a series of tachycardia at about 4 in the afternoon. Then about 6 P.M. I noted a long string of ventricular tachycardia (they went on for 3 hours). I started to sweat and felt very tired and uncomfortable. At about 7:30 P.M. I was admitted into the Emergency Room at Goleta Valley Hospital. At that time my heart rate stayed between 180 and 185 beats per minute. The staff was gravely concerned over my condition since they knew that my heart could only keep it up so long and then would stop completely. My condition did not respond to the normal drug treatment. At that time a Cardiologist was called in and he performed cardioversion (electrically shocking the heart).

On Monday November 14th. 1988 I went to the VA Outpatient Clinic in Santa Barbara, and told My Doctor what happened. He sent me for admission at the VA Hospital in West Los Angeles. I was monitored on radiotelemetry until Friday November 18th. 1988. I had been put on Procainamide again although I mentioned that I had serious side effects from it before. The reason being that Procainamide worked and it was only to be for a very short time until I could receive further testing. I was then sent home for the holidays.

I soon became tired as well as sore. I was having a reaction to Procainamide but I continued to take it, since I had been told that it would only be a short time before I would be called back for testing. On Monday December 5th. 1988 I again went to the VA Outpatient Clinic in Santa Barbara. The Cardiology Department at the VA Hospital in West Los Angeles was contacted and I was told that there was a opening the next week. I was also told that if I could not stay on the Procainamide I would have to be hospitalized and put back on a heart monitor. On Wednesday December 7th. 1988 I could stand the pain no longer. At that time I was taking in excess of 5,000 milligrams of Ibuprofen (Motrin) per day and I still could not move without extreme pain. When I awoke in the morning I had to work my fingers until they moved, and for the most part I did not get out of bed. I only worked 2 hours in all of December due to this problem.

After discontinuing the Procainamide it took until Friday December 9th. until the pain was reduced enough (by again taking too much Motrin) so I could go back to the VA Outpatient Clinic. At that time my Doctor sent me back down to the VA Hospital in West Los Angeles. I went directly to the Cardiology Ward since I felt they would best know what was happening (I was there about 6:30 P.M. on December the 9th). Unfortunately there were no heart monitor beds available at the VA Hospital in West Los Angeles. This put me in another bad situation. As I mentioned earlier, I am relatively happy with most of my medical treatment by the V.A. One major exception was Long Beach Veterans Hospital.

I was sent by ambulance to the VA Hospital in Long Beach, where I arrived about 12:30 A.M. on Saturday December 10th. While waiting for admission in the emergency room, the nurse gave me some papers to sign. I had some time so I read them, and signed all except one. I pointed out to the nurse that it said that I was never in Viet Nam and the condition for admission was not service connected. I told her that I could not sign that because my condition was directly related to what happened to me in Viet Nam. About 5 minutes later a clerk (?) came up to me and told me that I would have to sign the remaining paper. I told him that it was wrong, so I could not. He said I had to. I said that I would only sign it if I could cross out the parts saying I had never been in Viet Nam, and this was not service connected. He said I could not. I asked him what the paper was for, and he said "Do not worry about it since he would straighten it all out anyway". I again refused to sign this paper. At the time I was lying in a hospital gurney, attached to a heart monitor, but push was coming to shove, and I was getting ready to come unglued. The nurse had gone to a very far corner of the room, and pretended not to see, but she kept glancing over. This clerk was also upset because I would not do what he said. He was so mad that he was shaking, and I was about the same. Finally this little twirp, marked the form that I was unable to sign. His last gouge was replacing my V.A. card that said I was a service connected Veteran, with one that said I was not. I am sorry that I did not file charges on that bastard, which I really shoud have done for the Veterans that met him after me.

I was immediately placed in the Cardiac Intensive Care Unit, and on a heart monitor. It was found that I had developed Pneumonia due to the immobility and water retention cause by the Procainamide. I was again tested by insertion of electrical probes into my heart to induce arrhythmia. A therapy of another anti-arrhythmic was tried. Due to problems treating the Pneumonia, and regulating the level of my blood thinners (required by the type of heart valve that had been inserted), I was still being hospitalized and on a heart monitor through Christmas 1988. Later the Long Beach V.A. Hospital was forbidden to do this proceedure. It turns out that they where suspose to have a surgery team in the Hospital while it was done in case of problems. But they did not. They felt that there would be one in a hospital down the street if needed.

1 posted on 12/17/2002 5:37:35 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: souris; SpookBrat; Victoria Delsoul; MistyCA; AntiJen; SassyMom
Long Beach V.A. Hospital had some major problems. Everything that they did somebody would drop the ball. Nothing was done very well. For instance the day after admission I started to complain about chest pains. My Doctor said do not worry. On Wednesday I spiked a temperature. And then the Doctor figured out that I might be in trouble. So on Thursday they had a set of chest x-rays done. Friday they could not find these x-rays. So they had more done. These were not read until the following Monday. And these proved that I had pneumonia. By that time they had found the Thursday x-rays and they showed the same. Another thing that they would do is when they had me on radio-telemetry, they would send me by myself around the hospital. What kind of joke was this treatment? Radio-telemetry is so if I went into V-tach again they could see it early and rush to save me. Hell they would not even have a idea what floor I was on until somebody saw me go down.

One of the final straws was that the Cardiology ward was fairly empty. But they put all of the patients in 5 man rooms, because we would be easier to watch. Well in hospitals more than 2 persons to a room, really makes it hard to sleep. The nurses are always doing something to someone. 5 man rooms makes sleep damn near impossible. So I would have to go out in the hall and sleep in a chair. So I requested transfer back to the VA Hospital in West Los Angeles. I was transferred to West Los Angeles on December 28th. 1988. There it was felt that I required further testing and diagnosis. I was taken off the anti-arrhythmic that the Cardiologists at Long Beach had prescribed since it has some harsh long term side effects. I was placed on other medicinel to lower my blood pressure and help regulate my heart beat. Late on Tuesday January 10th. 1989 I was taken off the heart monitor for the first sustained time in almost 5 weeks. On January 11th. 1989 I was released from the hospital AFTER A 34 DAY STAY.

Near the end of 1994, the V.A. decided to re-evaluate me. Why? Who knows, probably simply because they are breaucrats.. Anybody that has any idea of what happened to me knows that I will never get better, only worst. So they had me go in for 2 medical examinations. In April I received a letter from the V.A. the 1st page read;

"Dear Mr. K,

We have denied your claim for an increased evaluation on the bais (sp) of individual unemployability."

"You have the right to appeal this decision."

On the 3rd page there was a more information. Half way down the page was;

"DECISION

Continued entitlement of unemployability is established."

Now that is what I knew would have to happen, sooner or later, so I was not worried. But this letter came to my sisters house, she called me, and I had her open and read it. She only got to the 1st page. Needless to say she was outraged. I thought that I was just going to have to teach these bastards a lesson. So I went over to her house, and read the letter myself, and figured out the trick. 10 years earlier I would not have been knowledgable enough to do that. When I think of all of the Disabled Veterans every year that go through the same sadistic treatment, well I am not surprised by things like the Okahoma City Federal Building bombing. The only thing that surprised me was that there was not a larger V.A. office there. I can not help but think that in every V.A. office there should be a sign that says "Treat every Veteran's Case as you would want yours to be treated. Remember the life you save maybe your own." After I had to go to the emergency room off the street to have my heart re-started in November of 1988, I realized that nobody would ever hire me again. So I started to fight the V.A. in earnest. And I figured out some of their games. I will here list some of them:

1. DO NOT expect the V.A. to handle your claim well. They apparently have the attitude that if they screw it up on the 1st submission then another V.A. employee will get credit for the next contact. This is saying that if they do it right the 1st time, it is over. But if they do it wrong they get paid just as much to do it again. Bureaucracy is alive and well at the V.A.

2. If / When the V.A. says that they can find NO evidence of your claim or your continued disability, DO NOT believe them. They lie! What they really mean is that they choose not to look at the evidence that you have. They will only look at a letter from a Doctor, a hospital discharge, or their physical evaluation. I can not help but think that the testing of the V.A. service officers for this position, must be something like not being able to find their own butt with both hands, if that suits their supervisors.

  1. Let's face it the only way that you are going to get a letter is to pay a outside Doctor. The V.A. Doctors do not want to rock the boat, and jeopardize their jobs.
  2. The hospital discharge; be serious. No Doctor is going to be discharging you and stating that they can do nothing for you, you are probably going to die, or become worst. When they discharge you they say that they cured you, and you are expected to do fine. They want the World to think them Gods, and to avoid the lawsuits as well.
  3. The V.A. physical evaluation. If you are disabled, and got to this point you have a chance. But the V.A. Doctors do not know just what to say to help you, or hurt you. They are not told the 'Magic Words' that will turn the ratings boards opinion.
3. DO buy a copy of the Bureau of Veteran's Affairs part of Federal Register. All of the laws and rules that the Federal Government is suppose to be ran by are someplace in the Federal Register. The V.A. books have a listing of disabilities, and their percentages. This is what the V.A. Rating Board must follow. And if they do not you can nail them. So buy a copy, read it, and honestly evaluate your condition. If you do that do not settle for less than what the Federal Register says your condition is worth.

4. DO go to the Disabled American Veterans and Only Them . They are the only ones that really know what the hell is happening with the Disabled Veterans. Also your case will go back 1 year from the time you filed. If you drop in at one of the other Veteran Groups because you have some friends there, or somebody said they were better. And If they file a new claim, You will lose time from the previous filing. This happened to me several times. The other Veterans groups were nice and trying to be helpful, but I was the one who lost several years of disability pay.

Just as a bit of an afternote in the fall of the year 2000 I was informed that I had caught hepatitis C from the blood transfusion I received during my 1982 open heart surgery. I had complained to the VA doctors about chronic fatigue in the late 1980s and was told that I was just getting old.
2 posted on 12/17/2002 5:38:28 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: All
'To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and orphan.'

--Abraham Lincoln -
The VA motto since 1959 and inscribed on a pair of metal plaques flanking the entrance to the Washington, D.C. headquarters of the Department of Veterans Affairs


3 posted on 12/17/2002 5:38:57 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: SAMWolf; All
"This is from me to those that have not written yet, please write, use it,
tell about your family, your hobbies, how the weather is, what are you planning for the holidays.
Tell a funny thing that happened, send a joke anything. Tell about your pets and kids.
We miss home and it means a lot to hear from everyone."

From a US Marine's e-mail



4 posted on 12/17/2002 5:54:37 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: SAMWolf; All
Online Petition to Reform the Veterans Administration System!
We ask that The Congress enact legislation to restore the Rights and Dignity to those
who served and to protect those rights from the constant erosion that has taken place.

5 posted on 12/17/2002 5:56:53 AM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub
Thanks for the link, Tonk.
6 posted on 12/17/2002 6:28:19 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: All
Aging veterans tell their war stories for posterity


ROCKVILLE, Md. — Under the gentle prodding of an adult son, Bill Pendergast's wartime memories spilled out like faded snapshots a half-century old.

"For the record, this is an interview of William Pendergast," his son Patrick, 36, said at the start, an audiotape spinning on the table. "First, Dad, can you give me your branch of service and where you served?"

Settled into a dining room chair, comforted by the eagerness of his listener, Pendergast, 71, began sharing Korean War recollections: the ice-cold Coca-Cola someone handed him when the Army first lobbied him to join its Counterintelligence Corps; the battle-scarred South Korea cityscape with not "two panes of glass still in one piece" in the city of Seoul; and the prisoners he was required to interrogate.

"Most of the interrogations were of young Chinese or North Korean men just as scared as I was," Pendergast said. Hostilities ended the year he was there,

1953. His recorded words have been shipped to the Library of Congress, making the Pendergasts participants in one of the broadest national efforts to preserve eyewitness accounts of Americans serving in war. It seeks the stories of those who served in World War I, World War II, Korea, Vietnam and the Persian Gulf.

And unlike many academic efforts, in which historians or trained researchers conduct the interviews, the Library of Congress enlists sons, daughters, friends and students to do the work.

The material being assembled, preserved and catalogued will serve scholars and writers, visitors to the library and the institution's Web site. And the material will serve as a reservoir for future library exhibits.

The Library of Congress project is one of many efforts underway across the country to capture and save first-hand accounts from war veterans — whether diaries, memoirs or recorded interviews — before the material is lost or the veterans pass away.

"People don't think about history until it's about to be gone," says Sarah Rouse, a senior program officer with the Library of Congress Veterans History Project.

And time is running out. Jim Parkel, president of the 35 million-member AARP, says that although an estimated 19 million men and women who are veterans of American wars are alive today, they are dying at the rate of 1,600 a day. With their passing, he says, "you are losing a history that is very important."

No one shed greater light on the treasure within these histories — the stories of how ordinary people did extraordinary things — than did the late Stephen Ambrose.

The author began interviewing World War II veterans decades ago, using them as the basis of his best-selling war history books and most recently fodder for an acclaimed HBO miniseries, Band of Brothers.

In 1983, he founded the Eisenhower Center for American Studies at the University of New Orleans, which has about 2,800 oral histories, including the largest collection from veterans of D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge.

Like the growing number of oral histories held by the Library of Congress, the Eisenhower Center accounts are popular with academicians and accessible to the public. They help the center serve as the research arm for the National D-Day Museum next door.

"It's the best way to relive what really happened," says historian Doug Brinkley, the current Eisenhower Center director. "(Ambrose's) concept was: Wouldn't it have been great ... to have tape-recorded and heard the voices of the veterans of Shiloh and Gettysburg and Antietam?"

People interested in reviewing oral history transcripts or audio tapes at the Eisenhower Center can do so by appointment. At the Library of Congress, researchers can visit the American Folklife Center Reading Room in the Thomas Jefferson Building in Washington, D.C., where audio and video tapes are accessible.

The preservation of first-person American wartime accounts is nothing new. According to U.S. Senate historian Donald Ritchie, author of Doing Oral History, the Army sent interviewers into battlefield areas during World War II to record after-action reports from soldiers on wire recorders. As far back as the 1890s, the federal government dispatched researchers to capture the songs of Native Americans on wax cylinders.

But now there is an even greater determination to capture historical accounts that might otherwise be lost. Other programs, old and new, focus on military experiences and include oral histories collected by the following institutions:

The Marine Corps Historical Center in Washington, D.C., began assembling its roughly 12,000 oral histories in 1965, stressing gathering of contemporaneous accounts while Marines were still deployed in battle zones. Already, about 400 Marines who have served in Afghanistan during Operation Enduring Freedom have told their stories.

The U.S. Army Military History Institute in Carlisle, Pa., has gathered about 1,500 interviews since the program began in 1971, focusing primarily on the leadership technique of key officers. The program also has addressed specific topics such as the history of blacks in the armed forces. In addition to collecting oral histories, the institute has distributed 30,000 questionnaires to veterans going back to the Spanish-American War.

The U.S. Latinos and Latinas World War II Oral History Project at the University of Texas-Austin has gathered about 400 oral histories focusing exclusively on World War II experiences.

The Oral History Program at Women in Military Service for America Memorial Foundation in Arlington, Va., has gathered first-hand accounts from 265 women serving in the American military and with the American Red Cross. It also has an extensive questionnaire project.

Khe Sanh vets sought


The Eisenhower Center is extending its reach to the next generation of aging veterans. It is collecting oral histories from those who served in Vietnam, including 125 former combatants who saw action during the 77-day siege of Khe Sanh in 1968. A program also is underway to interview former prisoners of war.

The Library of Congress program, barely two years old, may be the most ambitious effort both in scope — covering every major American war of the 20th century — and in method, appealing to the public for broad participation. It also carries the imprimatur of a government project within the nation's largest and most prestigious library.

Partially financed by a $3 million AARP grant and supported and promoted by chapters in that organization and service groups like Veterans of Foreign Wars, the program focuses on gathering oral histories as well as photographs, letters and war diaries.

A Web site (www.loc.gov/folklife/vets/) offers start-up kits with sample questions and guidelines: "Find a quiet, well-lit room to use for the interview. Avoid rooms with fluorescent lights, chiming clocks, or heating and cooling systems that are noisy. ... Try to keep your questions short. Avoid complicated, multipart questions."

And officials at the Library of Congress say there is no limit on how many oral histories they can accept.

The hope is not just to preserve history but to promote a kind of national education experience and cross-generational discussion, says Ellen McCulloch-Lovell, director of the project.

"There is something wonderfully compelling about asking the questions and hearing the person say in his or her own words, how did they come to serve, where and what did it mean to them, what were some of the experiences that shaped their lives," says McCulloch-Lovell, who has done a dozen interviews herself.

"Anybody who does this is not going to forget that."

So far, the project has amassed audio and video interviews, written accounts and other memorabilia from nearly 3,500 people and has had tens of thousands request the interview kit. The result has been a kind of communal effort to piece together these personal wartime experiences.

At WBKC-AM, the radio station in Painesville, Ohio, program producer Tom Swope has become so immersed in obtaining oral histories from veterans that he created Legacies, a radio program broadcast every Sunday at 10 a.m.

"I let the guys tell their stories as much as possible and play a couple of songs from the World War II era," Swope says. He has sent about 75 oral histories to the Library of Congress over the past year and a half.

Teachers have adopted the program as a way of exposing students to eyewitness accounts of dramatic events. At Shaker High School in Latham, N.Y., Tom Venezio, occupational education director, has tapped students to be interviewers and tape transcribers, and they have prepared and sent 57 oral histories.

'Getting on in years'


"There is a sense of urgency," Venezio says. "These guys are now getting on in years. And I think each of us can think about either family members, friends or (other) relatives we've known who have seen combat in World War II and are gone now. And those stories are lost forever."

In the Pendergast home here, the opportunity to have a father tell his war story from beginning to end — and have his narrative voice preserved — achieved something that had been put off for too long.

"I was always kind of curious about what the details were," Patrick Pendergast says.

The same is true with other families.

"It's one thing to hear these stories (over time)," says Cory Neil, 22, a senior at Auburn University in Alabama who interviewed his father, Richard, about his experiences as an Army helicopter pilot in Vietnam. "And such another thing to sit there and watch him as he tells the stories and hear the emotion in his voice.

"It was a good experience for the both of us."

Jerome Duff, 76, a retired lawyer from St. Louis and a former Marine who fought on the islands of Saipan and Okinawa in World War II and also served in occupied Japan, was reticent for years about sharing his experiences with his two children.

"They knew that their dad just didn't want to talk about it, and they were curious," he says.

That changed last summer, when his daughter, Christine Duff Muldoon, 51, of Phoenix used the Library of Congress interviewing kit to persuade him to tell his story.

He found it cathartic. She found it mesmerizing.

"I don't think anybody ever sees their dad in situations where they have to make decisions about life and death," she says. "But here he was telling me about how his best friend was killed beside him, how he actually had to kill people in battle and how he was among the first Marines in Nagasaki after the (atomic) bombing of the city.

"It was an unbelievable experience."

Contributing: Mary Cadden

-- Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY


7 posted on 12/17/2002 6:36:47 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: 06isweak; 0scill8r; 100American; 100%FEDUP; 101st-Eagle; 101stSignal; 101viking; 10mm; 10Ring; ...
Drop on in to the FReeper Foxhole!

The FReeper Foxhole is a new Daily Thread in the VetsCoR Forum. If you would like to be removed from this daily ping list, please send a FReepmail to AntiJen. Thanks!

8 posted on 12/17/2002 6:48:49 AM PST by Jen
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To: AntiJen
It's Beginning to look a lot like Christmas
Be sure and
Click the Pics

J

Frosty the Snowman Let it Snow Santa Claus is coming to town Sleigh Ride with You

Jingle Bells

Click Here for Christmas Graphics J

9 posted on 12/17/2002 6:55:58 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: Fiddlstix
Good morning Fiddlestix. Thanks for our daily Christmas cheer.
10 posted on 12/17/2002 7:01:11 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: All

Click the logo for more information.

The Veterans History Project is a unique opportunity for Americans of all ages and backgrounds to play an important role in the preservation of our national collective memory and to learn important lessons from the rich historical resource we have in our military veterans and civilians who served in support of the war effort.


11 posted on 12/17/2002 7:04:18 AM PST by Jen
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To: All





Support Our Troops This Christmas

With the holidays approaching, thousands of Americans are again asking what they can do to show their support for servicemembers, especially those serving overseas in this time of war. Several organizations are sponsoring programs for members of the Armed Forces overseas. Click the holly below to find different ways you can express your support to US troops this Christmas season.

12 posted on 12/17/2002 7:04:56 AM PST by Jen
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To: SAMWolf
Good Morning to you
You're welcome J
13 posted on 12/17/2002 7:05:25 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: All

Welcome Home to all Vietnam Veterans

<==== Click
"Welcome Home"
14 posted on 12/17/2002 7:08:16 AM PST by Jen
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To: AntiJen
Bump for the Foxhole
15 posted on 12/17/2002 7:12:32 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: Fiddlstix
Each Christmas, I remember the Jingle Bells version from Vietnam.

Jingle bells, mortar shells, VC in the grass
Take your Merry Christmas and shove it up your XXX

Nothing irreverent was intended, but our troops really earn extra thanks and respect during the holidays, away from their families and loved ones.

16 posted on 12/17/2002 7:31:01 AM PST by katze
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To: Fiddlstix
I just checked out your Christmas graphics thread you linked to in your post. It's fantastic! Thanks so much for your daily delivery of holiday cheer to the FReeper Foxhole.
17 posted on 12/17/2002 7:31:41 AM PST by Jen
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To: E.G.C.
Good morning faithful bumping buddy!
18 posted on 12/17/2002 7:32:30 AM PST by Jen
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To: SAMWolf; MistyCA
I haven't read this veteran's whole story, but so far -- WOW! I thought I'd had trouble with the VA. Thank God he got assistance from the DAV. Going for coffee, then to finish the story.

Thanks Sam for all your great work for the Foxhole!
19 posted on 12/17/2002 7:34:56 AM PST by Jen
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To: katze; All
Good morning. Thanks for dropping in to the Foxhole. Coffee's ready and it's extra GI strong today!


20 posted on 12/17/2002 7:38:38 AM PST by Jen
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To: AntiJen
I'm sure there are a lot of stories like his out there.

Thankfully, I never had any experiences that bad, but trips to the VA were never high on my list of "fun" things.
21 posted on 12/17/2002 7:43:18 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: AntiJen
Thanks for the Ping.
22 posted on 12/17/2002 7:44:21 AM PST by CPT Clay
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To: katze
Check your +
Freepmail J
23 posted on 12/17/2002 7:45:03 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: AntiJen
I just checked out your Christmas graphics thread you linked to in your post. It's fantastic! Thanks so much for your daily delivery of holiday cheer to the FReeper Foxhole.

Glad you like it J

24 posted on 12/17/2002 7:46:16 AM PST by Fiddlstix
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To: SAMWolf
Semper Bumperatis
(always bumpin'?)

(for later reading) :-)
25 posted on 12/17/2002 7:49:47 AM PST by JoeSixPack1
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; SAMWolf
Thank you, I signed the petition.

SAM, our local Boy Scout Troop does a monthly drive for the vets in our local VA hospital. A good dinner, and goody bags with the most basic of things. Tooth paste, tooth brushes, deoderant, disposible razors, that kind of thing. And lots of hard candy and sweets. God bless them and you, too.

26 posted on 12/17/2002 8:11:21 AM PST by xJones
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To: SAMWolf
This has to be one of the saddest stories I read in a while. It's a wonder that the author is still alive. Being angry and frustrated doesn't help his heart condition either. I was reading about a vet who had three limbs blown off by a land mine and has been fighting for years to be justly compensated in the People's Republic of Canada. Members of Parliament are entitled to a lump sum of money for each loss of limb - but not the vet injured in a land mine while serving his country. Go figure.
27 posted on 12/17/2002 8:15:35 AM PST by Aura Of The Blade
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To: xJones
Our Amvets post does two "formal" visits per year, one around Christmas and one in the summer for a BBQ.

Those goody bags and the books and magazines we bring diasappear as fast as we can put them out.

Thanks to the Boy Scouts for helping supply those goody bag items, I know they're appreciated.
28 posted on 12/17/2002 8:23:43 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: Aura Of The Blade
Amazing how the politcians get themselves the best of everything and won't provide the same for the veterans.
29 posted on 12/17/2002 8:24:43 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: katze
LOL! I still sing that version, drives my wife crazy!
30 posted on 12/17/2002 8:25:30 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks, Sam!
31 posted on 12/17/2002 8:28:20 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Fiddlstix
As always, Thanks, Fiddlstix!
32 posted on 12/17/2002 8:29:31 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: AntiJen
Jen, thanks for the posts each day! You do such a good job! :)
33 posted on 12/17/2002 8:30:24 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: AntiJen; All
Good morning, Jen! Hi, everybody! (I'm having a great morning - hope you all are, too.)
34 posted on 12/17/2002 8:34:48 AM PST by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: All
Apply for VA Benefits Online

VONAPP - Veterans Online Application Website

These forms are available for online application:

-- VA Form 21-526, Veteran’s Application for Compensation and/or Pension

-- VA Form 28-1900, Disabled Veterans Application for Vocational Rehabilitation

VA -- Form 22-1990, Application for Education Benefits

35 posted on 12/17/2002 8:41:23 AM PST by Jen
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To: SAMWolf
Good morning, we are having a beautiful blue sky day here in Montana. I've been watching the storms in California on TV and wish I could send them some of this sunshine. Have a great day and stay safe.
36 posted on 12/17/2002 8:44:01 AM PST by Cate
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To: SAMWolf
On This Day In History

Birthdates which occurred on December 17:
1493 Philippus A Paracelsus Swiss physician/alchemist (Liber paramixum)
1554 Ernst of Bayern prince/bishop of Liege/archbishop of Cologne
1619 Ruprecht prince of Palts/admiral/chemist/engraver/mathematician
1638 Johann Ulrich Sultzberger composer
1706 Gabrielle Châtelet [La belle Emilie] French writer (Voltaire)
1734 William Floyd US soldier/signer (Declaration of Independence)
1749 Domenico Cimarosa Italian composer (Il Matrimonio Segreto)
1770 Johann Friedrich Schubert composer
1778 Sir Humphrey Davy discovered several chemical elements
1797 Joseph Henry US, scientist/inventor/pioneer of electromagnetism
1800 Gergely Czuczor Hung/Czechoslovakian poet/translator (Great Hung dictionary)
1801 Johan king of Saxon (1854-73) (translated Divina Commedia)
1807 John Greenleaf Whittier US, poet (Snow-bound)
1819 Samuel Jones Major General (Confederate Army), died in 1887
1820 Frederick Tracy Dent Brigadier-General (Union volunteers), died in 1892
1821 Frederick West Lander Brigadier-General (Union volunteers), died in 1862
1824 Thomas Starr King New York NY, Unitarian clergyman (Christianity & Humanity)
1824 John Kerr System physicist (electro-visually Kerr-effect)
1824 Manning Ferguson Force Bvt Major General (Union volunteers), died in 1899
1830 Jules de Goncourt France, novelist (Germinie)
1833 James Thadeus Holtzclaw Brigadier-General (Confederate Army), died in 1893
1835 Alexander E Agassiz US, businessman/biologist/geology
1838 Berthold Tours composer
1840 Christian Frederik Emil Horneman composer
1842 Marius Sophus Lie Norwegian mathematician (continous groups)
1848 Frederick Grant Gleason composer
1853 Sir Herbert Beerbohm Tree England, actor/theater manager (Trilby)
1859 Willem C Grünings Curaçao publisher (People's Friend)
1861 Fritz Volbach German musicologist/conductor/composer
1863 Ion Vidu composer
1864 John Felix August Korling composer
1869 Nikolay Ivanovich Kazanli composer
1873 Ford Madox Ford England, novelist/editor (The Inheritors)
1874 William Lyon Mackenzie King (L), 10th Canadian PM (1921-30, 1935-48)
1876 Júlio Afrânio Peixoto Brazilian writer (O esfinge)
1881 Aubrey Faulkner cricketer (great South Africa all-rounder early 20th cent)
1881 Johannes CB "Jan" Sluyters Dutch painter
1889 Vaslav F Nijinski Ukraine/US ballet dancer (l'après-midi d'une faune)
1891 Robertson Hare London England, actor (Our Girl Friday, Banana Ridge)
1893 Erwin Piscator German stage director (Der Stellvertreter)
1894 Arthur Fiedler Boston MA, conductor (Boston Pops)
1894 Hans [Henry] Kramers Dutch theoretical physicist (quantum mechanics)
1894 Hans Henny Jahnn writer
1894 Willem Schermerhorn Netherlands premier (1945-46)
1895 David Butler San Francisco CA, director (April in Paris, Calamity Jane)
1900 Lucijan Marija Skerjanc Yugoslavia, composer/conductor
1902 Simon Drach writer
1903 Erskine P Caldwell author (Tobacco Road, God's Little Acre)
1904 Paul Cadmus New York NY, etcher/painter (Sailors & Floozies)
1904 Dmitri B Kabalevsky St Petersburg Russia, composer (In the Fire)
1905 Joseph Heifitz film director
1906 Fernando Lopez-Garcia composer
1908 Willard Frank Libby inventor (carbon-14 "atomic clock" (Nobel 1960))
1908 William Brocklesby Wordsworth composer
1909 Ferdinand H Aus der Fünten German war criminal (Breda 4)
1910 Keki Khursedji Tarapore cricketer (0-72 in his only Test for India)
1911 William Roerick actor (Henry Chamberlain-Guiding Light)
1914 Mushtaq Ali cricketer (prolific Indian batsman of 30's & 40's)
1916 Antoine G T "Toon" Hermans Dutch entertainer/poet (Kolderliedjes)
1917 Louis Salvador Palange composer
1920 Armin Mueller-Stahl Tilsit East Prussia, actor (Kafka, Music Box)
1922 Eric Brand diplomat
1922 Hubert H A Beckers Curaçao opera singer
1925 Rijk de Gooyer Dutch actor (Black Rider, Rififi in Amsterdam)
1926 Jeremy Brooks writer
1926 Patrice Wymore Miltonville KS, actress (The Big Tree)
1927 Richard Long Chicago IL, actor (Professor-Nanny & the Professor)
1928 Marilyn Beck newspaper columnist
1929 William Safire political columnist (New York Times)/speech writer (Nixon)
1930 Julia Meade actress/TV hostess (Spotlight Playhouse)
1930 Robert [C J Edward] Guccione magazine publisher (Penthouse, Omni)
1930 Makoto Moroi composer
1931 Yvonne Keuls [Bamberg] Dutch writer (Jan Rap & Co)
1933 Bruce Morrison cricketer (one Test New Zealand vs England 1963)
1933 Paul Snoek [Edm Schietekat] Belgian poet
1935 Cal Ripken Sr baseball manager (Baltimore Orioles)
1936 Roland Sheldon pitcher (New York Yankees)
1936 Frank Martinus Arion [F Efraim M] Antilles, writer (Double Play)
1936 Tommy Steele London, singer/actor (½ a Sixpence, Finian's Rainbow)
1937 Art Neville New Orleans LA, vocalist (Neville Brothers)
1939 James Booker New Orleans, R & B musician (Gonzo)
1939 Novella Nelson Brooklyn NY, actress (Nellie Cole-Chiefs)
1939 Eddie Kendricks Alabama, rocker (Temptations-My Girl, Boogie Down)
1942 Paul Butterfield Chicago IL, blues musician (Better Days)
1942 Bernard Hill Manchester, actor (Bellman & True, New World, Bounty)
1943 Dave Dee rocker
1943 William Brooks composer
1944 Ference Bene Hungary, record 12 soccer goals (Olympics-gold-1964)
1944 Jack L[aurence] Chalker US, sci-fi author (Charon: A Dragon at the Gate, Saga of Well World)
1945 Christopher Cazenove England, actor (Ben-Dynasty)
1945 Ernie Hudson Benton Harbor MI, actor (Ghostbusters, Weeds)
1946 Eugene Levy Hamilton Canada, comedian/writer (SCTV)
1946 Albert Padmore cricketer (West Indies off-spinner mid-70s)
1947 Simon Bates English DJ
1947 Marilyn Hassett Los Angeles CA, actress (Bell Jar, Other Side of Mountain)
1947 Wes Studi actor (Last of the Mohicans)
1948 Jim Bonfanti rocker (Raspberries-Go All the Way)
1948 Jim Alexander rocker
1949 Paul Rodgers England, rocker (Bad Company-Feel Like Makin Love, The Firm)
1950 Carlton Barrett Jamaicans reggae drummer (Bob Marley & Wailers)
1951 Tatyana Kazankina USSR, middle distance runner (Olympics-gold-1976)
1951 Wanda Hutchison rocker
1952 Hans Alders Dutch minister of environment (PvdA)
1952 Mickey Jones Washington DC, rock bassist
1953 Barry Livingston Los Angeles CA, actor (Ernie-My 3 Sons)
1953 Ikue Ile Mori drummer/composer
1953 Mark Gane Toronto Ontario, rocker (M+M)
1954 Bill Pullman actor (Sommersby, League of their Own, Independence Day)
1957 Bob Ojeda pitcher (New York Mets)
1958 Mike Mills US pop bassist (REM-One I Love)
1959 Albert King actor (BB King & Friends, Blues Alive)
1959 Michelle Mackall Washington DC, LPGA golfer (1995 Friendly's-32nd)
1959 Tammie Green Somerset OH, LPGA golfer (1989 du Maurier Ltd Classic)
1961 Sarah Dallin rocker (Bananarama-Venus)
1961 Venice Kong St Mary Jamaica, playmate (September, 1985)
1962 Giulla Boschi Italian actress (Act of Contrition, Bonus Malus)
1962 Rocco Anthony Mediate Greensburg PA, PGA golfer (1991 Doral-Ryder)
1964 Eric Brown New York NY, actor (Buzz-Mama's Family)
1964 Frank Musil Pardubice Czechoslovakia, NHL defenseman (Ottawa Senators)
1964 Joe Wolf NBA forward/center (Orlando Magic, Denver Nuggets)
1964 Tyrone Braxton NFL safety (Denver Broncos-Superbowl 32)
1965 Craig Berube Calahoo, NHL left wing (Washington Capitals)
1965 Jeff Grayer NBA guard (Charlotte Hornets, Olympics-bronze-1988)
1965 Scott Edward Gump Rockledge FL, PGA golfer (1991 International-2nd)
1966 Hans Visser Dutch soccer player (MVV, FC Utrecht)
1967 Alan Nolet Toronto Ontario, gymnast (Olympics-96)
1967 Pauline Maurice Welland Ontario, softball outfielder (Olympics-96)
1967 Vincent Damphousse Montréal, NHL center (Montréal Canadiens)
1968 Curtis Pride Washington DC, outfielder (Detroit Tigers)
1968 Jeff[rey] Klepacki Kearny NJ, rower (Olympics-1992, 96)
1969 Dean Wilson Kaneohe HI, golfer (1991 Western Athletic)
1969 Marc Davis Oceanside CA, 3K steeplechase runner (Goodwill-gold-94)
1969 Marty Carter NFL safety (Chicago Bears)
1969 Rob Maas Dutch soccer player (Feyenoord)
1969 Scott Player WLAF punter (Frankfurt Galaxy)
1970 Benedictine [St Bernard]; becomes heaviest known dog (137 kg)
1970 Earl Dotson NFL tackle (Green Bay Packers-Superbowl 31)
1970 Michael Mols soccer player (FC Twente)
1971 Alyson Habetz Crowley LA, female pitcher (Colorado Silver Bullets)
1971 Carl Reeves NFL defensive end (Chicago Bears)
1971 Mark Byers WLAF linebacker (Frankfurt Galaxy)
1971 Nikki McCray Collierville TN, basketball guard (Olympics-gold-96)
1971 Sari Kristiina Fisk ice hockey defenseman (Finland, Olympics-98)
1971 Tony Richardson NFL fullback (Kansas City Chiefs)
1972 Brian Williams NFL linebacker (Green Bay Packers-Superbowl 31)
1972 Dewayne Washington cornerback (Minnesota Vikings)
1972 Don Davis linebacker (New Orleans Saints)
1972 Ivan Pedroso Cuba, long jumper (Olympics-4th-92)
1974 Giovonni Ribisi actor (Cory-My 2 Dads, New Leave it To Beaver)
1975 Milla Jovovich Kiev Ukraine, actress (Return to Blue Lagoon, Chaplin)
1975 Napiera Danielle Groves Miss USA-Washington DC (1997, Miss Congeniality)
1975 Nick Farrell East York Ontario, boxer (Olympics-96)
1979 Jaimee Foxworth actor (Judy Winslow-Family Matters)
1979 Cheri Vivette Alexander Miss District of Columbia Teen USA (1997)
1981 Emma Laaksonen ice hockey defenseman (Finland, Olympics-98)





Deaths which occurred on December 17:
0695 Begga ancestress of the Carolingians/saint, dies
1187 Gregory VIII [Alberto de Morra] Italian Pope (1187), dies
1195 Boudouin V count of Hainault/Flanders (Boudouin VIII), dies
1213 Jean de Matha French saint, dies at 53
1471 Isabella of Portugal duchess of Burgundy, dies
1562 Adrian Willaert Flemish singer/bandmaster/composer, dies at about 82
1651 Wolfgang Schonsleder composer, dies at 81
1679 Don Juan ruler of Spain, dies
1711 Arnold Moonen vicar/literature (Defeated German Spraekkunst), dies
1751 Kilian I von Dientzenhofer Czechoslovakian master builder, dies at 62
1811 John Antes composer, dies at 71
1811 Louis-Abet Deffroy de Reigny composer, dies at 54
1829 Bernard Jumentier composer, dies at 80
1830 Simon Bolivar President of Colombia, dies at 47 in Colombia
1833 Kaspar Hauser German son of grand duke Karel of Bathe, murdered at 21
1870 Giuseppe Saverio Raffaele Mercadante composer, dies at 75
1881 Lewis H Morgan US ethnologist (Iroquois-Indians), dies at 62
1891 Msiri king of Garanganja (Katanga), dies in battle
1891 Omer Bodson Belgian captain, dies in battle
1893 Levinus T Keuchenius Dutch Minister of Colonies (1888-90), dies at 71
1899 Frederick "Freddy" Roberts son of British field marshal, dies in battle
1907 Kelvin of Largs [William Thomson] British physicist (Kelvin), dies at 83
1909 Leopold II king of Belgium dies
1913 Stefano Gobatti composer, dies at 61
1925 A N "Monkey" Hornby cricketer (England captain at Oval 1882), dies
1926 Alexandr Dmitriyevich Kastal'sky composer, dies at 70
1930 Peter Warlock composer, dies at 36
1933 Hans Vaihinger German philosopher (Side-Studies), dies at 81
1937 Gerard Vissering banker/president of Dutch Bank, dies at 72
1944 Pieter A Roodenburgh student/resistance fighter, dies at 26
1946 Constance [Clara] Garnett Russian-English translator, dies at 84
1948 Edgar Istel composer, dies at 68
1949 David Stanley Smith composer, dies at 72
1956 Eddie Acuff actor (Guns of Pecos), dies at 48
1957 Dorothy Leigh Sayers [Atherton Fleming] author (Whose body), dies at 64
1961 Marion Perkins sculptor (Man of Sorrow), dies at 53
1962 Thomas Mitchell US, actor (Outlaw), dies of cancer at 70
1965 Tito [Raffaele A] Schipa Italian tenor/composer (Rondine), dies at 76
1966 Gustaf Paulson composer, dies at 68
1967 [Francis] Barry Byrne Chicago IL, architect, dies at 83
1967 Harold Holt Australian premier (1966-67), drowns at 59
1969 Arturo da Costa e Silva President of Brazil (1967-69), dies at 67
1972 Erwin Dressel composer, dies at 63
1973 Charles G Abbot US astronomer (Sun Constant), dies at 101
1973 Patrick Hadley composer, dies at 74
1975 Noble Sissle jazz musician, dies at 86
1975 Frank Sully actor (Parachute Nurse, Inside the Law), dies at 67
1982 Leonid B Kogan Russian violist, dies at 58
1982 Philipp Jarnach composer, dies at 90
1985 Otto Gotsche writer, dies
1986 Ron Kass record company president (MGM), dies at 52 of cancer
1987 Bernard Cardinal Alfrink archbishop of Ultrecht Netherlands, dies at 87
1987 Marguerite Yourcenard author (Memoirs of Hadrien), dies at 84
1990 Don Draper actor (Pepper Agent 00X), dies of AIDS at 61
1990 Mieke Verstraete Belgian/Netherlands actress (Pleasant Settled), dies at 79
1991 John Blatnik (Representative-MN, 1947-75), dies at 80
1992 Dana Andrews actor (Laura, Best Years of Our Lives), dies of pneumonia in Los Alamitos at 83
1993 Frederik "Fried" Löwensteyn Dutch lawyer/writer, dies at 71
1993 Janet Margolin US actress (Annie Hall), dies at 50 of ovarian cancer
1994 Jan Wiegel director/producer (Uninhabitable Country), dies at 64
1995 Lila Clark Knapp publisher, dies at 63
1996 Elizabeth Hill teacher of Salvonic languages, dies at 96
1996 Francesco Siciliani opera administrator, dies at 85
1996 Irving Caesar songwriter, dies at 101
1996 Michael Saunders barrister, dies at 22
1996 Ruby Murray singer, dies at 61
1996 Stanko Todorov PM of Bulgaria (1971-81), dies
1997 Reginald Victor Jones scientist, dies at 86






On this day...
0283 St Gaius begins his reign as Catholic Pope
1526 Ferdinand of Austria chosen as King of Bohemia
1526 Pope Clemens VII publishes degree Cum ad zero - forms Inquisition
1538 Pope Paul III excommunicated England's King Henry VIII
1572 Spanish army begins fires in Haarlem Netherlands
1587 Earl Leicesters army leaves Netherlands
1638 French/Swedish troops occupy Breisach on the Rhine
1718 England declares war on Spain
1728 Congregation Shearith Israel of New York purchases a lot on Mill Street in lower Manhattan, to build New York's 1st synagogue
1745 Bonnie Prince Charles army retreats to Scotland
1777 France recognizes independence of English colonies in America
1777 George Washington's army returns to Valley Forge PA
1788 Russian army of Grigorij Potemkin occupies Ochárov
1790 Aztec calendar stone discovered in México City
1791 NYC traffic regulation creates 1st 1-way street
1792 Opening of 1st legislative assembly of Lower Canada in Québec City
1798 1st impeachment trial against a US senator (William Blount, Tennessee) begins
1819 Congress of Angostura establishes Colombia's independence from Spain
1821 Kentucky abolishes debtors prisons
1832 HMS Beagle/Charles Darwin sails in Strait Le Maire
1852 1st Hawaiian cavalry organized
1860 Anaheim Township created in Los Angeles County
1862 General US Grant issues order #11, expelling Jews from Tennessee
1864 Battle of Franklin TN
1865 Franz Schubert's "Unvolendete Symphony" premieres
1875 Violent bread riots in Montréal
1885 France declares Madagascar a protectorate
1887 Georges Feydeaus' "Tailleur Pour Dames" premieres in Paris
1893 Russia ratifies Duple Alliance with France
1894 Cricket day 3 1T Australia vs England England 325 all out, 261 behind on 1st inning
1895 Anti-Saloon League of America formed, Washington DC
1895 George Brownell patents a machine to make paper twine (Massachusetts)
1900 1st prize of 100,000 francs offered for communications with extraterrestrials. Martians excluded-considered too easy
1900 New Ellis Island Immigration station completed costing $1.5 million
1902 Frank Wedekind's "Der Erdgeist" premieres in Berlin
1903 At 10:35 AM, 1st sustained motorized aircraft flight (Orville Wright)
1907 Ugyen Wangchuck became 1st hereditary king of Bhutan
1909 Leopold II, king of Belgium, buried in Brussels
1914 Jews are expelled from Tel Aviv by Turkish authorities
1914 Austrian troops beat Russians in Limanova Poland
1914 Great Britain declares Egypt a protectorate
1919 Austria parliament approves 8-hour day
1920 British Empire receives League of Nations mandate to Nauru
1920 Japan receives League of Nations mandate over Pacific islands
1920 South Africa receives League of Nations mandate over SW Africa
1920 American League votes to allow pitchers who used the spitball in 1920 to continue using it as long as they are inthe league (The National League will do the same - 17 holdover spitballers in all)
1922 Last British troops leave Ireland Freestate
1923 Greek king George II overthrown by army/republic
1924 1st US diesel electric locomotive enters service, Bronx NY
1925 Colonel William "Billy" Mitchell court-martial for insubordination
1925 Russia & Turkey sign non-aggresion pact
1926 KYA-AM in San Francisco CA begins radio transmissions
1926 German Marx government falls due to cooperation with red army
1926 Lithuanian military state under General Augustine Woldemaras
1927 US sub 'S-4' sinks after collision kills all 34 aboard
1927 Bradman scores 118 on 1st-class cricket debut, 188 minutes 8 fours
1927 Victoria score 793 against Queensland, Bill Ponsford 437
1928 John McGraw backs National League president John Heydler's designated hitter idea
1932 Cardinals trade Jim Bottomley to Reds for Estel Crabtree & Ownie Carroll
1933 NFL starts keeping official statistics as Bears beat Giants 23-21 in championship game
1933 B H Valentine scores 133 on Test Cricket debut, England vs India at Bombay
1933 Lala Amarnath scores century on Test Cricket debut (went on to 118)
1933 Spain's 2nd Government of Lerroux forms
1936 Ventriloquist Edgar Bergen & dummy Charlie McCarthy, appear on TV
1938 Utrecht Central Station destroyed by fire
1939 German pocket battleship Graf Spee scuttled by its crew off Uruguay
1940 British troops occupies Sollum
1941 German troops led by Rommel begin retreating in North Africa
1941 Dutch & Australian troops lands on Portuguese-Timor
1941 German submarine U-31 sunk
1942 Allies in London sentence German war criminals
1943 Transport 63 departs with French Jews to Nazi-Germany
1944 M-Ocean View streetcar resumes service & is extended to Market St
1944 US Army announces end of excluding Japanese-Americans from West Coast; Japanese-Americans are released from detention camps
1944 Green Bay Packers win NFL championship
1944 US destroyers sink in storm off Philippines, 790 killed
1946 US V-2 rocket reaches 183 km, White Sands Proving Grounds NM
1946 Bradman & Barnes complete 405 run 5th wicket stand, score 234 ea
1947 New York struck by a blizzard, resulting with 27" of snow
1947 WEWS TV channel 5 in Cleveland OH (ABC) begins broadcasting
1949 "Regina" closes at 46th St Theater NYC after 86 performances
1949 Burma recognizes People's Republic of China
1951 Dutch Communist Party members forbidden to be civil servants
1953 Dmitri Shostakovich's 10th Symphony, premieres in Leningrad
1953 FCC approves RCA's black & white-compatible color TV specifications
1954 1st fully automated railroad freight yard (Gary IN)
1954 WEAU TV channel 13 in Eau Claire WI (NBC) begins broadcasting
1957 US successfully test-fires Atlas intercontinental ballistic missile
1959 "On The Beach" is 1st film to premiere on both sides of Iron Curtain
1960 "La Plume de Ma Tante" closes at Royale Theater NYC after 835 performances
1960 "Take Me Along" closes at Shubert Theater NYC after 448 performances
1960 Pablo Casals' oratorio "El Pesebrio" premieres
1961 Disgruntled employee set fire to a Niteroi Circus of Rio de Janeiro circus tent in Niteroi Brazil; 323 die
1961 India seizes Goa & 2 other Portuguese colonies
1962 Current constitution of Monaco promulgated
1962 Beatles 1st British TV appearance (People & Places)
1963 Tsjoi Doo Sun forms government in South Korea
1963 West & East Berlin sign accord about travel rules
1965 Largest newspaper-Sunday New York Times at 946 pages (50¢)
1965 Astrodome opens, 1st event is Judy Garland & Supremes concert
1965 British government proclaims end of oil-embargo against Rhodesia
1965 David Levy begins his search for comets
1965 Dutch government shuts Limburgs coal mine
1967 WEDW TV channel 49 in Bridgeport CT (PBS) begins broadcasting
1969 50 million TV viewers see singer Tiny Tim marry Miss Vicky, on Tonight Show
1969 USAF closes Project Blue Book, concluding no evidence of extraterrestrial spaceships behind thousands of UFO sightings
1970 Gdansk, Poland shipworkers strike
1970 US performs nuclear test at Nevada Test Site
1970 USSR performs nuclear test at Eastern Kazakhstan/Semipalitinsk USSR
1971 Cease-fire between India & Pakistan in Kashmir
1971 Radio Bangladesh begins transmitting
1971 "Diamonds are Forever" premieres in US
1972 New line of control agreed to in Kashmir between India & Pakistan
1972 WGVC (now WUCX) TV channel 35 in Grand Rapids MI (PBS) 1st broadcast
1973 Arab terrorists shoot passengers on Boeing 737 to Kuwait
1975 1st time New York Islanders shut-out New York Rangers, 3-0-Billy Smith's 5th
1975 John Paul Stevens appointed to the Supreme Court
1975 Lynette Fromme is sentenced to life for attempt on President Ford's life
1976 Superstation WTBS in Atlanta went national
1977 Bobby Simpson scores 176 Australia vs India at the WACA, aged 41
1977 Elvis Costello & The Attractions 1st US TV appearance (Saturday Night Live)
1977 France performs nuclear test at Muruora Island
1978 Referendum approves new constitution of Rwanda
1978 OPEC raises oil prices 18%
1979 Budweiser rocket car reaches 1190 kph (record for wheeled vehicle)
1980 Great Britain performs nuclear test at Nevada Test Site
1980 Mauritania provisional constitution published
1981 Members of the Red Brigades kidnap Brigadier-General James L Dozier
1983 "Peg" closes at Lunt-Fontanne Theater NYC after 5 performances
1983 Bomb attack on Harrod's war house in London, 5 killed, 94 injured
1983 Disco in Madrid catches fire; 83 die
1984 New Jersey Devils 1st penalty shot-Rocky Trottier scores against Edmonton
1984 New Jersey Devils 1st shutout, Glenn Resch makes 42 saves beat Minnesota, 2-0
1986 Mrs Davina Thompson makes medical history by having the 1st heart, lung & liver transplant (Papworth Hospital in Cambridge, England)
1986 US Congress forms "Irangate" committee
1987 Czechoslovak party leader Gustav Husák resigns
1988 Bryan Murray becomes the 17th NHL coach to win 300 games (Washington Capitals)
1988 New York Islanders break 12 game losing streak, beat Devils 5-2
1988 USS Tennessee, 1st sub to carry Trident 2 missiles, commissioned
1988 77th Davis Cup: Germany beats Sweden in Gothenburg (4-1)
1988 USSR performs nuclear test at Eastern Kazakhstan/Semipalitinsk USSR
1989 78th Davis Cup: Germany beats Sweden in Stuttgart (3-2)
1989 Brazil elects conservative Fernando Collor de Mello president
1989 Michael Bevan scores cricket century on 1st-class debut (114 South Africa vs Western Australia)
1989 Patti Rizzo/Mike Hill win LPGA Mazda Golf Championship
1990 KTBN, Salt Lake City UT, begins short-wave radio transmissions
1991 NBA's most lopsided game Cleveland beats Miami 148-80
1991 Soap opera "One Life To Live" airs its 6,000th episode
1991 Cleveland Cavaliers beat Miami Heat 148-80, by record 68 points
1991 Patrick Manning becomes premier of Trinidad & Tobago
1992 "Christmas Carol" opens at Broadhurst Theater NYC for 22 performances
1992 General Suwa finds tooth of 4.4 million year old Australopithecus ramidus
1993 Bangladesh moslems call for murder of feminist Taslima Nasrin
1993 Kevin Scott skates world record 1000 meter (1:12.54)
1993 Northern Exposure star Barry Corbin falls off his horse
1993 Tennis star Boris Becker (26) weds Barbara Feltus (27)
1994 KLM's last DC-10 goes out of service
1995 "School after Scandal" closes at Lyceum Theater NYC after 23 performances





Holidays
Note: Some Holidays are only applicable on a given "day of the week"

Bhutan : Ascension to the throne of the 1st King/National Day
Colombia : Independence Day (1819)
US : Pan American Aviation Day/Wright Brothers Day (1903)
Venezuela : Bolivar Day (1830)
World : Underdog Day - - - - - ( Friday )




Religious Observances
Christian : Fiesta of the Virgin of the Lonely




Religious History
1843 Charles Dickens' "A Christmas Carol" was first published. The "social conversion" of Ebenezer Scrooge on Christmas Eve may be seen as a literary symbol (based on the events of the first Christmas night) of the human potential released through spiritual conversion.
1917 Confiscation of the property of the Russian Orthodox Church and abolition of religious instruction in schools was announced by the Bolshevik government.
1920 The first orphanage founded by the Church of God opened in Cleveland, Tennessee. Its establishment was the result of the vision and efforts of Church of God pioneer, A.J. Tomlinson.
1934 Birth of Kurt Kaiser, contemporary American Christian songwriter and composer. His abiding works include: "Oh, How He Loves You and Me," "Pass It On" and "Master Designer."
1943 German theologian and Nazi martyr Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote in a letter from prison: 'The consciousness of being borne up by a spiritual tradition that goes back for centuries gives one a feeling of confidence and security in the face of all passing strains and stresses.'




Thought for the day :
" Every human being comes equipped with a brain at no extra cost. "
37 posted on 12/17/2002 8:45:12 AM PST by Valin
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To: katze
Seemed most appropriate for it's time, didn't it? I have the greatest CD ever made....It's called "In Country" and it has a fantastic selection of war songs that were written by the guys "over there".

Click Here

38 posted on 12/17/2002 8:47:33 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: AntiJen
Yes, quite a story! Our vets deserve much better than this.
39 posted on 12/17/2002 8:48:38 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA
You're welcome Misty.
40 posted on 12/17/2002 8:49:29 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: Cate
Good Morning to "Big Sky" Country, Cate.
41 posted on 12/17/2002 8:50:51 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: All

This is a Good Resource if you are fighting VA!

Title 38 - Code of Federal Regulations -- Pensions, Bonuses, and Veterans' Relief

42 posted on 12/17/2002 8:52:35 AM PST by Jen
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To: Aura Of The Blade
So true. What's worse than the vets who don't get help, are the vets who are so damaged that they don't realize they need help. but it's my great fear that a lot of the guys who are homeless or disfigured or roaming aimlessly may have tried to get help at some point and gave up because they were not treated well.

One of the biggest problems in the so called system is the fact that a vet has to be energetic, persistent and determined in order to get what is coming to them. There are so many who can't do those things! The VA should automatically be there to walk them through the system and make sure they are cared for, but instead they further frustrate and humiliate them! This has GOT TO STOP!

43 posted on 12/17/2002 8:54:28 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
Good morning to you! It's always a pleasure to have a "Duchess" visit our Foxhole! hehehe

My morning is going OK. I'm procrastinating though... I must study for a math test and complete some Perl projects! Sooooo... I'm outta here for awhile.

44 posted on 12/17/2002 8:55:16 AM PST by Jen
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To: SAMWolf
Don't get me started on the inequities and politicians! I still say, give the Congress NO MORE then what we give our active duty and vets! How dare they think they deserve more then our military! How dare they!
45 posted on 12/17/2002 8:56:00 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Cate
My husband just came back to Minnesota from California. He couldn't wait to get here to warm up! LOL! He was freezing his butt off in Santa Barbara!
46 posted on 12/17/2002 8:57:49 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA; SAMWolf
Our vets deserve much better than this.

Yes, they sure do. I know the law changed not too long ago, and now VA has a "duty to assist" veterans in developing VA claims rather than dismissing claims that previously were determined to be "not well grounded".

But, I haven't had any dealings with the VA since then, so I don't know if VA has actually started helping vets with claims.

47 posted on 12/17/2002 9:04:54 AM PST by Jen
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To: AntiJen
I hope it improves, but I doubt it. And I hope the DAV continues to chew them up and spit them out for breakfast!


48 posted on 12/17/2002 9:16:25 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: All

VVA's Guide on VA CLAIMS and APPEALS

Note: This guide was prepared by the Vietnam Veterans Association, but applies to claims by any Veteran. It has suggestions for veterans and their families seeking VA benefits.

49 posted on 12/17/2002 9:20:25 AM PST by Jen
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To: AntiJen
Good morning Foxholers

Well there another report off BBC wire US got a-okay to have Brit spy station up in Northern England keep eye on Saddam when smackdown happen

Jeff Spocoli aka Sean Penn being praise over his comments about US Govt pushing war by Iraqi paper according to sources

And another report off World Tribune this morning is reporting that Britain is very vulunable to terror attack reason is they not prepare of anything

50 posted on 12/17/2002 9:25:27 AM PST by SevenofNine
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