Did JFK "Steal" the Words for his "Ask Not What Your Country Can Do for You" quote?

Al-Hewar Center ^

[Coleus]

And when John F. Kennedy memorably exhorted Americans: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country," was he consciously quoting words written by Gibran and addressed to the people of Syria and Lebanon half a century earlier?

 

http://www.cs.umb.edu/jfklibrary/j012061.htm

 

http://www.4umi.com/gibran/

 

http://www.bartleby.com/73/766.html

 

http://www.alhewar.com/Gibran.html

[Coleus]

FYI, I was surprised when I heard about this and thought some Freepers may be interested.

[Skwidd]

"When something is said and said well, have no scruple."

[farmfriend]

ping

[Revolting cat!]

Well, at least he didn't steal:

"Ich bin ein jelly doughnut"

[steplock]

Actually a lot of speech makers repeat 'good lines' from previous speeches.

They even re-tell old jokes. Are the jokes 'plagerized'? I guess technically they are.

[Inyokern]

I seem to remember reading that the statement was first made by Warren G. Harding.

[jscd3]

Since the words were probably written for JFK by Ted Sorenson, I'd say that Jack was not guilty...

[Revolting cat!]

Heck, most politician speeches since the Kennedy time (and before in this country) have been written by speech writers. Most books by politicians and celebrities are written by ghost writers.

Ivana Trump, if you remember her, once published some romance novels, which, as it turned out during a press conference promoting one of them, she hadn't even read! Don't think for a minute that Hitlery Rodham is any different as an "author". It's a ghost writer world! (And we luv it and we luv being fooled by it1!)

[Burkeman1]

I have heard that before. That when JFK said that quote he was really saying "I am a Jelly Donut". Is that true or an Urban Myth?

[Revolting cat!]

It's no urban myth. Kennedy actually said in a speech in West Berlin "Ich bin ein Berliner". Trouble is (or was) that for the native Germans a "Berliner" referred to a kind of a jelly doughnut, a roll with some jelly inside it. It's a cliched reference by now.

But there is a revisionist history, as there is for everything, isn't there, and it was covered a few years ago by an article in the Wall Street Journal, I think, where the author argued that indeed the residents of Berlin would have understood "Berliner" as JFK (or his speech writer) had intended it. There must be some references to the whole story in the Net.

[dix]

Those Dems are some kind of a piece of work.

[BoomerBob]

FWIW... I too was curious about this and once asked my German professor (a West Berliner himself) and he said that the "Ich bin..." sentence was acceptable, and understood by the citizenry.

[Burkeman1]

The whole crux of the story rests on "Berliner"- that is proper in English to say a resident of Berlin- but is it proper in German? I don't think so. I have always loved this story.

[Palladin]

The quote is originally from Cicero.

JFK never had an original thought in his life.

Democrats are brainless plagiarists.

[Coleus]

Yep, the problem is that the media and schools, keep on drumming that speech down our throats. It's even in the National BSA Woodbadge course where they talk about communication and quoted all democrats including Kennedy and FDR, never Reagan.

Speech writers using "their own" material is good as well as giving credit to a someone else's quote as many do. Kennedy did NOT give credit to Gibran. Any decent person would have.

What Kennedy should have said, "In the words of Gibran, 'Ask not what your country....'", he did not.

If the ghost writer stole someone else's quotes that is wrong too. The problem is not who is writing the speech or the book, it's what quotes that are stolen, that's the problem. Kennedy or his writer who wrote the speech should have credited Gibran.

[Burkeman1]

But he saved his PT crew with a coconut! I know because it is in the Smithsonian! Hogwash. The Kennedy family myth is one big lie.

[Revolting cat!]

On a related matter, Bob Dylan has been accused of major plagiarism on his most recent studio disk Love and Theft. Here's one link. (There are many others, by the way, and an article in the same Wall Street Journal describing the matter a few months ago.)

[InterceptPoint]

"Ich bin ein jelly doughnut"

The fact that one of JFK's most famous quotes was really screwed up is not well known. It was explained to me by an Englishmen who had lived in Germany long enough to know what a "Berliner" is and yes a "Berliner" is a jelly donut.

[Congressman Billybob]

In German, "ein Berliner" means a jelly doughnut. Had he said just "Berliner" without the "ein" it would have meant "a resident of Berlin."

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, "A Trip Down Possumtrot Road," discussion thread. IF YOU WANT A FREEPER IN CONGRESS, CLICK HERE.

[GOPyouth]

Presidents quote poets and such all the time. President Bush's quotes in his inaugural address was filled with poetry.. "This work contintues. This story goes on. And and angel still rides in the whirlwind and directs this storm."
I can't remember what poem that's from, but point being a lot of speeches are taken from poetry. Reagan talking about the astronauts slipping the bonds of earth was from another poem as well.

[oyez]

Or was it "Ich bin ein Bismark"?

[Paradox]

The quote is originally from Cicero.

Right. This thing goes back to the Roman Empire. No need to let the Syrians take credit for it..

[Jeff Chandler]

Jimmy Carter made a similar speech in Hamburg.

[nightdriver]

"Was ML King a plagiarist? Did LBJ really win the Silver Star for heroism? Does it really matter?"

Not to a democRAT.

[Jeff Chandler]

Pres. Carter: "Ich bin ein Hamburger".

[x]

It's a funny story, but I don't think anyone at the time thought Kennedy said he was a jelly donut. Not much more than if a foreign politician today said after 911, "I am a New Yorker," people would think he said he was a car or a magazine. People in Cold War Berlin weren't as inclined to laugh openly at public figures as they are today, even if he did use ungrammatical forms.

Here's two sites who give Kennedy a pass: JFK: 'I Am a Jelly Doughnut' and Did President Kennedy Say He Was a Jelly Doughnut?. The argument seems to be that the form he used was applicable if you weren't a real citizen of Berlin, but wanted to identify with them in a figurative way. "Er ist Roemer" means he's a resident of Rome. "Er ist ein Roemer" apparently means that he has the virtues of a true Roman. I'm not sure I buy it, but Kennedy's accent was so bad, that using the usual form might have sounded stranger than what he said.

[Qwinn]

The words JFK -should- most be remembered for: "How dare you compare a great patriot to a traitor to our country?" in reference to a comparison made between Joe McCarthy and Alger Hiss.

Well, I'm doing this from memory, I might've screwed up the line a little, but that's the gist of it. That followed by him storming out of the place is, to me, the most noble moment of his Presidency.

But while I do appreciate him for that, I would've rather he actually kept his promise to provide air cover to the dying Cuban-Americans at the Bay of Pigs, instead of pulling back for fear that the world might know the U.S. was involved (yeah, way to keep a secret).

Qwinn

[boris]

"Was ML King a plagiarist? Did LBJ really win the Silver Star for heroism?"

Was Joe Biden a plagiarist?

Did Maya Angelou really plagiarize 'her' poem recited at Klinton's first inauguration?

--Boris

[Coleus]

I would've rather he actually kept his promise to provide air cover to the dying Cuban-Americans at the Bay of Pigs, instead of pulling back for fear that the world might know the U.S. was involved (yeah, way to keep a secret). >>>

That's what we get for allowing the UN to run our wars and dictate our policy.

[gcruse]

I seem to remember reading that the statement was first made by Warren G. Harding.

I am a Harding scholar of sorts, and no, he didn't say that.  You may be thinking
of his coining the term, 'normalcy,' that being about the only other thing besides
Teapot Dome he is remembered for.

[Paulus Invictus]

Plagiarism reigns supreme among most speech writers and JFK had a roomfull of plagiarists and apologists. How else did he and Camelot survive bad news about the incessant Kennedy immoralities, including drug use. I have seen nary a word from the RATS about Kenney's documented case of abuse. They are too busy slamming Rush.

[Palladin]

Did you see Barbara Bush on Larry King Live?

What an amazing lady. She even said nice things about Teddy Kennedy.

The Kennedys may have money, but they will never have class, like the Bushes.

[Coleus]

Is this true?

[VOA]

Did JFK "Steal" the Words for his "Ask Not What Your Country Can Do for You" quote?

I think there is some old saying of "talent imitates, genius steals".

As much disdain as I have for a lot of the Kennedy mythology, at least JFK
served in the military and had the gumption to run/serve as President,
even if he should have been disqualified due to all his physical ailments.

JFK sure had his failings (Bay of Pigs...), but today he'd be expelled from
what now passes for the Democratic Party.

[Coleus]

but today he'd be expelled from
what now passes for the Democratic Party. >>

Yep, he cut taxes for the rich and infused the treasury with money! The equivalent annual income in today's dollars would be that of those making in excess of $300K. But you won't hear that in the press only that Reagan and W. hate the poor people and gave tax breaks to the rich. Seems JFK loved the rich even more.

even if he should have been disqualified due to all his physical ailments>>

Had addison's disease of his adrenals, back then life threatening; more lies and deciet from the Kennedy's.

[saradippity]

All I remember about that "classy" Barbara Bush is that at the convention nominating sr.Bush,she was speaking and advocating family values. She very adroitly managed to slip in the fact that there were other acceptable family "arrangements".

[Palladin]

Other family arrangements? Such as: children being raised by single widowed parents; children being raised by grandparents? What do you mean?

Barbara Bush certainly has a knack for stating things diplomatically and non-dogmatically.

She is a better statesman than any of the males in the family.

[saradippity]

I am sorry I don't have her speech,the only thing I remember is that many of my pro-life,conservative,Reagan supporters were together watching the convention and it was clear to us she was including relationships that covered same sex parents.We talked about it and were disgusted.I think she also split from him on the abortion issue.

I hope some others on here can remember,or know how to look it up because my memory is only clear about the fact that I thought it was very disturbing.Nonetheless,I wish someone could verify it because I knnow it is significant and I would prefer having it certified,so to speak!It was the same convention where Reagan and Buchanan gave stirring speeches.

[thedugal]

Well, it doesn't really matter. JFK is still the darling of the left even though directly quoting most of his speeches will cause them to shrivel. There isn't a democrat alive today who would say "Ask not what your country can do for you", unless in the context, "demand your country do for you!".

[SupplySider]

JFK is still the darling of the left even though directly quoting most of his speeches will cause them to shrivel.

How true.

"It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and revenues are too low, and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."

- John F. Kennedy Speech to Economic Club of New York, December 14, 1962.

[Coleus]

The Truth ALWAYS matters.

[durasell]

He probably first heard it at Choate. It was a favorite expression of the headmaster at the time he attended.

[RightWhale]

JFK likely knew the source of his quote or paraphrase. He may have assumed that the audience would also know the source of the quote or paraphrase, and apparently some do. Quoting is allowed in speeches as well as writing; whether the source is well-known enough to not be specifically mentioned is a judgement call. Cribbing more than a line crosses over into plagiarism.

[RightWhale]

the only other thing besides Teapot Dome he is remembered for

In Fairbanks he is known for the commemoration of the completion of the Federal Railroad to Fairbanks. The railcar he rode in is still here and is an exhibit at the historical park. Nobody knows much about Teapot Dome except those who still aren't talking.

[Freedom4US]

Kennedy's speechwriter(s) (Schlesinger? Ted White?) were fans of what I think were called contrapuntal phrases or something like that. They aren't anything new. Things like "Let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate.." etc. I have a copy of his first Inauguaral address (on parchment, no less) along with the AP's big "red book" printed right after the asassination. The first address is full of them.

[RightWhale]

Yes. It is a great technique for speechmaking. I don't like it myself, too mechanical, but it is also a technique for generating some fresh ideas even if they don't always make a lot of sense.