Posted on 06/30/2004 3:27:30 AM PDT by RaceBannon
No I can't. That's as good as it gets. :-)
Yeah but I gave that up about the time they discovered the smoking papyrus.
***But to blame every musicianfor the evils of a few is wrong***
I'm not doing that.
***people grow closer to the Lord the longer that they walk with him.***
"Therefore an overseer must be above reproach... must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil."
The verse doesn't strictly apply but the principle does: Don't put the inexperienced in public positions of ministry (I contend that a "Christian Artist" is in a public position of ministry) because they don't have the resources to face the temptations. If someone is going to stumble, let it be out of public view so they don't bring shame to the name of Christ.
***In reading Grammys posts I tend to agree and blame the bean counters.***
Granted, things seemed to really change for the worse around the time they took over. But that doesn't change the reality that something is gravely wrong with CCM.
***You've made the job of Preacher and the job of Christian Musician the same.***
No, I recognize the difference.
Here is the similarity.
Both stand up publically and associate themselves with the name of Jesus Christ.
Both are viewed by our youth as examples to be emulated (though the musicians to a much greated degree)
Both are in a sense, "teachers" of Christianity and therefore are subject to the following injunction...
"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness." - James 3
Why will they be judged with "greater strictness"???
Because as public figures they have a much greater opportunity to do harm to Christ's kingdom.
You and I are never gonna agree, I hope.
***Christians here feel obligated to rip each other up and argue day after day over minute details ***
It's really not that bad. Part of the problem is a medium that makes it impossible to get across emotional content except through the use of smileys.
Have I been rude to you? (sincerity)
***I suspect half of you wouldn't know heaven till after you had arrived and criticized it.***
Why the third person? Do you consider yourself to be a Christian?
***You and I are never gonna agree, I hope.***
I don't get it. Do you think public Christian figures should adhere to a lower standard than their brother and sisters?
I think that's her point. ;-)
I will have to agree with my Calvinist brethren on this one. No single person and no group or organization has the capability of harming Christ's kingdom. Men are not that powerful. The gates of hell shall not prevail. Not in the least.
If CCM sucks and is wrought with slimy people, God's glorious message will still get through by those in it who are dedicated to Christ and not to money or fame.
Heck you can probably still get the gospel in a PCUSA church. The apostate preachers are not harming God. They are harming themselves and those whose ears are tickled by their message. Real Christians have discernment.
Load the question any way you want with words like "higher standard". I don't think the word applies here.
I don't see listening to The Beatles or Billy Joel or U2 or whatever pop music that comes on the radio when we are driving around, turning the channel when songs come on they don't like, singing along with songs they do like the way the rest of us do, as a SHAMEFUL admission on the level of adultery, drugs and everything else these guys have been accused of by generalization. Good grief, it's a matter of taste. They like to play rock music, chances are they've heard some before in order to have arrived at that affection.
Better answer.... I should have left it at that. ;~D
You: ***I will have to agree with my Calvinist brethren on this one. No single person and no group or organization has the capability of harming Christ's kingdom.***
God is due glory.
"Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness."
God can be robbed.
"Will man rob God? Yet you are robbing me. But you say, 'How have we robbed you?' In your tithes and contributions. You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me, the whole nation of you."
God can be robbed of glory he rightly deserves because of the sinful action of his people.
"You who boast in the law dishonor God by breaking the law. For, as it is written, "The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
The fact that God can be robbed of the glory and worship He deserves - and that that angers Him is seen here...
"Do not worship any other god, for the LORD , whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."
"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God."
"Do not follow other gods, the gods of the peoples around you; for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land."
"Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy? Are we stronger than he?"
I fully agree that the gates of hell shall not prevail - cannot prevail. Christ cannot loose. But that does not erase the fact that when we sin God is not getting the glory He deserves as seen above. That is what I mean when say that shame is brought on Christ's name of that his kingdom is harmed.
Good night.
***I don't see listening to The Beatles or Billy Joel or U2 or whatever pop music that comes on the radio when we are driving around, turning the channel***
That's not the issue we are addressing here. (think "moving target")
BTW I'm off for the night. Have a good one.
There is a difference of "harming Christ's kingdom" and "robbing God". We don't give everything to God that is due Him and He graciously understands and accepts this because of His great love for us. But I can assure you God the Father will NOT see our Lord Jesus Christ's kingdom harmed.
Musicians are not the same as teachers. I would classify them as evangelists which is different from a teacher. One would hope that if we classified them as evangelists they would be faithful in presenting the gospel through their songs.
Eph 4:11-12 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;
--I'm not doing that.--
The origional article and post #1which seem to be a continuation of the article do seem to say that all of the CCM musicians are bad.
--If someone is going to stumble, let it be out of public view so they don't bring shame to the name of Christ--
If they do stumble in public (and I have) is not grace sufficent to cover the sin? If they keep on sinning there lies the problem
The CCM has evolved into an automobile with a ithicus(? christian fish symbol) on their bumper and the driver doesn't mind flipping the bird and cutting people of on the highway. Meanwhile the passangers are clueless just riding along singing praise songs to Jesus.
***"There is a difference of "harming Christ's kingdom" and "robbing God"."***
I understand what you are saying. "harming Christ's kingdom" was my phrase and was meant to be synonamous with "bringing dishonor to Christ's name" or the similar. To me, if Christ's name is harmed then Christ's kingdom is harmed - though of course not in any permenant sense.
***We don't give everything to God that is due Him and He graciously understands ***
I think I'd have to disagree there. For the verses I found it seems like he gets pretty mad.
"For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God."
***Musicians are not the same as teachers. I would classify them as evangelists which is different from a teacher.***
But don't you think evangelists would be under the same injunction as the generic "teachers" in James?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.