Posted on 08/21/2004 11:44:43 PM PDT by FairOpinion
Candidate seeks to succeed where Gore failed and get the swing votes of 7.2 million hunters
Four years ago, Democrats Al Gore and Bill Bradley argued the merits of licensing or registering gun owners and weapons, a debate that branded Gore as anti-gun.
Now, Kerry leads Democrats in championing gun rights in a bid to reach swing-voting hunters. Worried that a weak foothold with the so-called hook-and-bullet crowd could cost them the election, Democrats have locked and loaded and changed their tune, their image, even their party platform.
As Kerry toured battleground states in recent days, time and again he told audiences that he's an outdoorsman who embraces the Second Amendment, the constitutional right to bear arms.
"You know I'm a hunter and a fisherman," he said in Smithville, Mo. "I've been a hunter since I was about 12 years old. I'm a gun owner; I believe in the Second Amendment. I know it matters out here in parts of the world."
Those parts of the world tend to be where the election will be decided. About 7.2 million hunters live in battleground states, with the highest numbers in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Ohio.
For the first time, the Democratic Party platform endorses a right to own firearms. Terms such as "gun control" have been jettisoned in favor of "gun safety," and the major gun item on the legislative agenda is to renew a 10-year-old ban on assault weapons, not to impose new restrictions on gun purchases or ownership.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
Kerry Is No Friend Of Hunters
“The Democratic Party Will Never Be The Choice Of The NRA – And I’m Not Looking To Be The Candidate Of The NRA.” (John Kerry For President, “Kerry Stands Up To NRA’s Divisive Agenda In Letter To Blacklisted Americans,” Press Release, 10/30/03)
Kerry Is Not A Member Of The Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus. (The Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Website, http://www.sportsmenslink.org/caucus/caucus_members.asp, Accessed 3/31/04)
ü The Caucus Boast 324 Members: Including Democrats Sen. John Edwards (D-NC), Sen. Ernest Hollings (D-SC), Sen. Zell Miller (D-GA), Sen. John Breaux (D-LA), Sen. Blanche Lincoln (D-AR), Sen. Mark Pryor (D-AR), Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA), Sen. Mark Dayton (D-MN), Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT), Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND), Sen. Thomas Daschle (D-SD), Sen. Tim Johnson (D-SD), Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE), Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), and Sen. John D. Rockefeller (D-WV). (The Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation Website, http://www.sportsmenslink.org/caucus/caucus_members.asp, Accessed 3/31/04)
Kerry Received An “F” Rating From National Rifle Association In 2002. (National Rifle Association Website, www.nra.org, Accessed 1/24/04)
John Kerry Has Voted With Coalition To Stop Gun Violence 100% Of The Time. (Candidates On Guns Website, Project Of The Coalition To Stop Gun Violence, www.candidatesonguns.org/content/meet/cand_kerry.html, Accessed 2/9/04)
John Kerry Received A 0% Rating With Gun Owners Of America In 2002. (Candidates On Guns Website, Project Of The Coalition To Stop Gun Violence, www.candidatesonguns.org/content/meet/cand_kerry.html, Accessed 2/9/04)
John Kerry Voted With Brady Campaign 100% Of The Time. (Brady Campaign Website, http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/scorecard/scorecard.php?ssr=MA, Accessed 4/1/04)
Kerry Votes Against Gun Owners
Kerry Was One Of 17 Senators To Vote To Ban 12 Additional Assault Style Weapons In Bill Already Banning 9 Assault Style Weapons. Kerry voted to add weapons to those banned in the underlying bill. The measure was defeated, with only 16 other Senators joining Kerry. (S. 1970, CQ Vote #102: Motion Agreed To 82-17: R 42-2; D 40-15, 5/22/90, Kerry Voted Nay; Joan Biskupic, “Anticrime Package Falters After Gun Ban Retained,” CQ Weekly, 5/26/90)
Kerry Voted To Allow Federal Authorities To Conduct Inspections Of Gun Dealers Without Notice. The measure was soundly defeated, with only 17 other Senators joining Kerry. (S. 49, CQ Vote #140: Motion Agreed To 76-18: R 47-4; D 29-14, 7/9/85, Kerry Voted Nay)
Kerry Voted For Mandatory Trigger Locks. (S. 2260, CQ Vote #216: Motion Agreed To 61-39: R 52-3; D 9-36, 7/21/98, Kerry Voted Nay)
Kerry Voted Against Destruction Of Records After Background Checks For Purchase Of Handguns. Kerry voted against requiring that “law enforcement agencies to immediately destroy any information on individuals allowed to purchase firearms after the check.” (S. 2260, CQ Vote #217: Adopted 69-31: R 55-0; D 14-31, 7/21/98, Kerry Voted Nay)
Kerry Voted To Strip Bankruptcy Protection From Gun Manufacturers From Debts Caused By Fraud, Recklessness Or Negligence. Only 28 Senators joined Kerry in supporting this measure. (S. 625, CQ Vote #4: Rejected 29-68: R 1-51; D 28-17; I 0-0, 2/2/00, Kerry Voted Yea)
Kerry Voted Against Limiting Civil Lawsuits Involving Guns. Craig, R-Idaho, motion to table (kill) the Levin, D-Mich., amendment no. 2631 that would exempt from the provisions of the bill civil lawsuits in which gross negligence or reckless conduct of a defendant led to the death or injury of another person. (S. 1805, CQ Vote #29: Motion Agreed To 56-41: R 45-5; D 11-35; I 0-1, 3/2/04, Kerry Voted Nay)
Kerry Voted For 14 Day Waiting Period. McClure, R-Idaho, motion to table (kill) the Inouye, D-Hawaii, amendment to require a 14-day waiting period between the purchase of a handgun and its delivery to the buyer. (S. 49, CQ Vote #141: Motion Agreed To 71-23: R 46-5; D 25-18, 7/9/85, Kerry Voted Nay)
Kerry Voted To Abolish Civilian Marksmanship Program In 1993 And Its Successor In 1996. (H.R. 3116, CQ Vote # 325: Motion Agreed To 67-30: R 39-2; D 28-28, 10/21/93, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1745, CQ Vote #178: Motion Agreed To 71-29: R 51-2, D 20-27, 6/27/96, Kerry Voted Nay)
http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?id=4337
Kerry lies, Kerry lies!
he wants to ban everything but rimfire .22LR
I know I'm in the center on this issue... I know Kerry is to the left.
On this issue, a vote against Kerry is a vote for our second amendment.
And I know the gun people on this place don't like me because I'm a centrist on this issue. But I know I'm not leftist on this issue, and Kerry is wrong. Besides, I like things that go boom.
Just like Clinton, Kerry always frames the 2nd Amendment in terms of hunting. Nary a word from either of them about self-defense....
He is now drafting the first piece of legislature to bear his name: The "Kerry-Conyers 6mm Plastic BB Bill", which will protect weapons utilizing the aforesaid plastic ammo as long as they do not have flash suppressors, plastic bayonettes or stacking-swivels.
Few days back had a big dem tell me that the repubs would take my guns as quick as dems. I told him maybe, but since all the gun legislation comes from the left; guess my people will all vote repub. If the repubs ever start sponsering bills to restrict my gun rights, I'll quit voting for them also.
Kerry Lied ! tomorrow?
No, of course not, but they should. He is playing Clinton's pretend to be a moderate role.
He's a liar.
Good post!
The 2d Admendment is not about hunting.
blessings, Bobo
I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice that. I have rarely heard a prominent Democrat speak of Americans having a Second Amendment right to own, for example, handguns for self defense. And why should Kerry care about that? He probably had a private security detail before securing Secret Service protection. Same principle for the hypocrite Rosie O'Donnel.
But even if Kerry were explicity pro-self defense, it wouldn't really matter. Its the same thing as with gay marriage -- it doesn't matter what he says. What matter is what the far-left, activist judges he would appoint would say. Just as Kerry knows that his judges would impose gay marriage against his alleged 'let the states decide' view, so to would his judges rule against the Second Amendment. By that I mean they would rule that it protects a collective right instead of an individual one, and if that is the case then the Second Amendment has no meaning at all.
To be fair, its not exactly as if the GOP is out there decrying the handgun bans in places like Chicago and Washington D.C., but at least a Supreme Court with a few more Scalia's and Thomases would likely rule against them if they ever got the chance.
Don't take things personally. We'll get you squared away on this. Just stick around and be patient
Your post is excellent.
Democrats are shameless liars.
No, what we don't like is your wacky idea to give the government the power to license gun owners, and force them to pass a government designed and administered test in order to exercise their RKBA. If you want to grant the government that much power over your, and our, 2d Amendment right to keep and bear arms, you're no centrist...you're a leftist, right along with sKerry, Hilldebeast, Feinswine, Shoemat, et al.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
They have a strategy of trying to drive a wedge between the hunters and the ones that carry on the hip. Divide and conquer. Won't work though.
Uh, yeah. And there's also the Second Amendment, too, that Kerry and the Democrats carefully avoid. That's the amendment that the founders put in the Bill of Rights which guarantees the right to keep and bear arms in case it someday becomes necessary for "we the people" to violently overthrow some future tyrannical government.
Hunting and target shooting and gun collecting have nothing to do with it.
And you still don't understand. You focus on one part of the idea but don't take into account the whole plan. The point is to increase gun ownership, which will force government to stay on the right side of gun control, which is as little interference as possible.
Decreasing gun ownership will increase liberal powers to enact gun control laws. Increasing gun ownership will make a simple licensing scheme necessary, which is much simpler than the current gun permit system, which for the most part is designed to discourage moderate citizen gun ownership. And it is the moderates you need to win.
A responsible licensing program, coupled with a campaign to increase gun ownership, will force the government to the right on gun control. A campaign to increase gun ownership without a compromise for the moderates will only turn moderates off, and you'll end up with less gun ownership, and before you know it... The liberals will be taking away your guns.
You can't win by staying to the far right, and what do you call the current permit system except an elaborate licensing scheme?
Kerry's so arrogant He thinks those who believe in the second amendment can be deceived?
LOL, my experience is - anything that smacks of gun control is too much for most believers in the second amendment... So if I have problems with them, Kerry won't talk a single one of them into voting for him. In fact this move is more likely to motivate avid gun owners into talking quieter gun owners into voting for Bush.
And if one must err on gun control, one must err on the side of deregulation. Making an error for regulation is more likely to create more regulation, which will eventually cancel out the second amendment right.
So, I understand everybody's resistance to my ideas, but I think if we want to win the war for gun ownership, we're going to have to find some way to satisfy the moderate need for safety assurances, and increase ownership to the point where the second amendment right and gun control are issues that no liberal would be able to use to win a seat in the federal and state governments.
After that I want to return the selection of Federal senators to the state legislators. There was a good conservative reason for the Senate being selected by state legislators and the House being elected by the people. State rights haven't received the protection they should have since the Senators started being elected by popular vote.
"we're going to have to find some way to satisfy the moderate need for safety assurances,"
There is a simple way -- teach kids in schools to shoot and use guns safely. It would do a lot more good, than "sex education". Offer gun handling, marksmanship and gun safety courses at community colleges.
Actually, I really like that idea. It would satisfy me, and it would remove the need for licensing.
Right on. Now, how to get everyone else to agree to this.
If gun safety would be what liberals really care about, they would do it: make it easy for everyone to become competent in handling guns by offering classes, which would include shooting and responsible handling of firearms.
BUT that is not what liberals are intersted in, they do want to take away everyone's guns, under the guise of making things "safe".
The California Legislature voted to have some "gun safety" classes in school -- initially I thought it was what I was envisioning: teach kids to shoot and handle guns, but it turned out, all they wanted is to spend time telling kids how evil and dangerous guns were, but not teach them how to handle them.
Mercifully Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed it.
One of the reasons liberals are so dangerous, is because they lie about everything, and you really have to watch them, when they use some reasonable sounding verbiage to cover up their real intent.
Ah, but I'm not trying to change the liberals' minds... It is the minds of the moderates whose only concern is safety when it comes to guns.
Perhaps I'm wrong, maybe moderates have really moved to the far left with the liberals on gun control, but I suspect most moderates are only concerned about safety, and if more moderates owned guns, then their objections over ownership would lessen.
Liberals only make up less than a third of the population... The real liberals. Then you have your left leaning moderates, your moderates, and your moderate conservatives and conservatives. I figure if we win the moderates and add them to the moderate conservatives on gun ownership, then that is almost 2/3s of the population, and that is more than enough to ensure 2nd amendment rights in this country.
As I said, the way to ensure safety is to teach everyone, starting with young kids how to safely handle guns, how to shoot them, and be responsible and disciplined.
In the "olden days", when every household had guns and kids Fathers taught them how to handle guns and that you never point a loaded gun at anyone you don't intent to shoot and so on, there were virtually no accidents or irresponsible use of guns.
Even the NRA has bought into the liberal propaganda -- their "Eddie Eagle" program teaches kids to not touch guns, and tell an adult, instead.
I personally think, that if kids were taught to use firearms, and the discipline that goes with it, they would be more responsible and disciplined overall, understanding that actions can have serious consequences.
Ain't that the truth, but the moderates are still key in winning political power. The nice thing about moderates is they can be educated out of an incorrect belief. Winning them over should be a high priority, because all they ever hear is the liberal tripe about how guns are evil, and how guns create crime.
So it is important to keep the ultimate goal in mind, but it is also important to find that key to the moderate vote, and then try to win it.
It is always much harder to win a moderate's vote to a conservative cause because it requires intellectual engagement. Liberals rely on emotional engagement, which is easier to utilize. But in the end, the truth wins out.
I think he just called us a bunch of redneck hicks.
And I agree. The younger they are when they start learning about guns, the better.
If I ever marry and have children there are two things my children will learn from family. How to drink responsibly and guns. Oh yeah, and how to play piano... responsibly... ;-)
Rights aren't something to be licensed by the government. The right approach would be a make firearms safety a REQUIRED class in school. Direct a part of the physical education curriculum to marksmanship training in a proper range on the school campus. It's certainly more respectable than having a bunch of big strapping guys playing badminton in the gym. Bring back ROTC for students who want to pursue a military career.
I graduated from high school before the school staff became a bumch of spineless pussies who shuddered at the mere mention a gun. We actually scheduled a special activity each week at the trap and skeet club. I had only shot doves with a double barrel 16 gauge when I was 12 years old. At 15, I picked up a 12 gauge semi-auto and knocked down 23 of 25 the first day on the trap range. First time on skeet was 21 of 25. We all had a good time. Nobody needed a change of shorts. I'm disgusted at the typical K-12 teacher with respect to firearms.
Kerry has voted for EVERY anti-gun bill ever offered. He even broke from his campaign on a "super Tuesday" to vote for the assault weapons ban amendment that Feinstein tried to tack on the Larry Craig's bill to protect firearms manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits. Kerry misses most votes. He is adamantly anti-gun in every way. Did I forget to reiterate that Kerry is a damn liar?
This is a policy of appeasement. It NEVER works. Appeasement gives the opposition what they desire in smaller bites. Read the link to learn about one of the biggest appeasement failures in history.
Kerry's web site should offer hunters free printed targets, showing rice bins.
This has a parallel to the plight of blacks in the old Jim Crow South. Blacks had to pass literacy tests before they were allowed to vote. By your argument, this could have been a system that would have proven that blacks could be trusted with the vote. In practice, a black person who could read Shakesphere and the Bible would always "fail" the literacy test put to him by a semi-literate Klansman. The whole Jim Crow system was a scam to disenfranchise African-Americans. Just as the Klan used "literacy" as a false standard to disenfranchise people, "gun safety" is just a ploy of the far left to disarm citizens.
Kerry never met a gun ban that he did not like.
He may show up toting a $5000 Perazzi shotgun. But, that is not the shotgun that ordinary people use. Kerry considers himself too good, to use arms that the little people would use. He believes the little people to be of little use, other than conning them into voting for him.
"Kerry lies, Kerry lies!"
What else is new? :-)
Kaptain Ketchup does not even know how to tell the truth.
"Increasing gun ownership will make a simple licensing scheme necessary, which is much simpler than the current gun permit system, which for the most part is designed to discourage moderate citizen gun ownership."
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time understanding this sentence you wrote.
Is it gibberish or gobbledegook?
Want to join in the fun? Click the logo to donate to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth!
I understand perfectly well.You've sought out some mushy-middle position that you think will make you popular with both sides. The only problem is that it's just plain stupid. You say your plan would increase gun ownership...which is increasing just fine without government registration and testing, thank you very much. I have seen estimates of between 180-210 million guns in the USA, owned legally by 80-100 million Americans. Ownership has obviously increased over the years, but just how has that kept the government on the right side of the issue? It hasn't! Seems to me that as gun ownership grows, the more liberal slimebags try to meddle with our RKBA. So your whole premise is specious.
"Increasing gun ownership will make a simple licensing scheme necessary, which is much simpler than the current gun permit system, which for the most part is designed to discourage moderate citizen gun ownership."
What?!?!?! Where the he** did you come up with that? Why is increasing ownership of firearms a reason for licensing? Our population is increasing, do we need to start licensing parents? After all, that's worked soooo well in Communist China! Current gun permit system? What current gun permit system? Are you talking about CCW permits, or NYC/Chicago/DC/et al, where you must have a license just to own a firearm, and then it's dictated what kind of gun you can or can't own? There's no such thing where I live, and if there is where you live, that's your damn problem. Fix your own problem, don't impose it on the rest of us.
"And it is the moderates you need to win."
What a pantload...moderates are spineless, wimpy scumbags who lack the will to make a firm decision. They're not needed...what's needed is more folks with guts, backbone, courage, principles, etc. All the things you moderate wimps lack.
"A responsible licensing program, coupled with a campaign to increase gun ownership, will force the government to the right on gun control."
Have you been huffing paint, or are you just totally and completely ignorant of gun control history? Registration/licensing has always led to confiscation! Geez...have you not heard of Nazi Germany? What about the Soviet Union? What about Uganda, Red China, most of Europe, to include the UK, Australia and New Zealand, just to name a few? In all those cases, registration has led to confiscation of some types of firearms, or in many cases, total disarmament of the populace. England now has the highest crime rate, per capita, in the industrialized world. Australia is right behind them. I assume you know about what happened to the disarmed citizens of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and Red China.
"A campaign to increase gun ownership without a compromise for the moderates will only turn moderates off, and you'll end up with less gun ownership, and before you know it... The liberals will be taking away your guns."
Good grief...if moderates are so pathetic and spineless that they can't stand for what's right, why don't you all just move to France? If your modus operandi is to give up without a fight, you'll be right at home there. Gun ownership is increasing without the meddling of stupi-a** CommieLibs and mushy moderates. Those of us who really own guns are doing our jobs just fine...introducing newbies to the joy of shooting, educating those who are ignorant about gun issues and history, and teaching safety and marksmanship to a whole new generation of shooters. Butt out, quit meddling with our rights, and buy your ticket to Paris, ASAP!
By the way, the CommieLibs may get your guns (if you do in fact own them), and the guns of your cheese eating surrender monkey moderate buddies, but they're not getting mine. When they tell me to turn 'em in, it'll be time to start using the 2d Amendment for what it was intended!
"You can't win by staying to the far right, and what do you call the current permit system except an elaborate licensing scheme?"
Horse hockey! The only way to win...which I define as not giving an inch of ground when it comes to our rights, is to stand firm, look the enemy in the eye and tell him he'll be creamed if he dares step over the line. Then do it when he does! You moderates think winning is being liked by everyone, and giving the other side what they want, as long as they promise to play nicely. Two words for you...Neville Chamberlain. Does that name ring a bell? If not, go study your world history, and while you're at it, study the history of gun control.
And again...what permit system? There's no such thing where I live, or where I've lived in the past. If there's a problem in your neighborhood, fix it yourself! Don't recreate your problem in my town just because you're too weak to straighten up your own mess!
It is an absolute, 100% solid, time tested fact of life that gun registration/licensing leads to confiscation. They haven't started kicking in doors yet in Kalifornia, but just wait a while longer...with leadership like that of Governor RINOnegger, it'll happen sooner or later. It is also an undeniable fact of life that turning over to the national government those powers that were reserved in the Constitution to the states and the people, will only result in those rights and powers being taken away, or abused.
You were born with a spine...I suggest you find it. It runs down the middle of your back...right under the yellow streak.
Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!
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