Posted on 07/11/2006 4:03:24 PM PDT by tpaine
Fascinating perspective, however, this "grandfathering" provision is nowhere to be found in the Constitution or B.O.R. Instead the 1st Amendment clearly protects the people or states from a federal establishment of "religion," which is properly understood to mean a christian denomination. The founders were christians overwhelmingly, but not all the same denomination. Thus general christian observances shared by all denoms was "tolerated"--Bible reading/training, prayer, posting of 10 commandments, ... (I'm sure some will point out exceptions, but these are exceptions.) These didn't become "unconstitutional" until the 1950's and following. Curious.
I admit that I do not know much about the history of Utah statehood.
Weird. -- Whats to disagree about?
i disagree that the taxpayers have an obligation to educate everyone, obligation being the operative word.
That this has been so completely obfuscated by trial lawyers, and their sychophants, to mean that States can over-ride Federal Law (within the Feds power limits) or Constitutional protections for Rights is part and parcel why this country is no longer a Republic and our Rights almost completely gone.
And yes... my Rights ARE being infringed. There are things I cannot do with my property even if those things put no one else at risk. I cannot say certain things without being charged with "incitement ot riot" or a hate crime. I cannot arm myself and walk about free of fear that some government enforcer will try and disarm me because I failed to PROVE I am not a criminal first and pay their bribe money/licensing fee.
Anyone who mistakes themselves for free man in this country hasn't been paying attention.
Thus endeth the rant...
Nice catch. Well said.
No. Imho, if you discuss the 14th Amendment, there should be some historical context. Not being familiar with the "Series," I would assume (bad word) that the 9th & 10th Amendments have already been discussed, and that I missed it.
5.56mm
Granted, there's a lot of hype saying that all of those things are now "unconstitutional", but none of them really are, unless they actually deprive someone else of life, liberty, or property.
bump
So Art 6 Para 2 was just window dressing?
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Sounds like Fed Law took precedence over State law right from the Start. The "further declaratory and restrictive" clauses were added later does not mean they also do not apply to the States under the Supremacy Clause. No matter what some judge decided to twist it to say.
Debates of the First congress are quit clear on the scope of the Constitution and the protections for those Rights.
"The Establishment Clause does not purport to protect individual rights."
"Quite simply, the Establishment Clause is best understood as a federalism provision--it protects state establishments from federal interference but does not protect any individual right."
"...Even assuming that the Establishment Clause precludes the Federal Government from establishing a national religion, it does not follow that the Clause created or protects any individual right. ...Moreover, incorporation of this putative individual right leads to a peculiar outcome: It would prohibit precisely what the Establishment Clause was intended to protect--state establishments of religion. ...Nevertheless, the potential right against federal establishments is the only candidate for incorporation." - Justice Thomas, Elk Grove v Newdow
Read my comment.. I said the same thing.
To whit, our favorite whipping boy, gun control. Any and all gun bans are illegal. The "F" portion of the BATFE is entirely ILLEGAL. As are the California bans, NY bans, ect... While it could be argued that the Militia Clause could be used to "regulate" the wearing of arms, this cannot be used to contrue a denial of RKBA completely. As in Texas. You cannot carry pistols openly and CCW is strictly "regulated". This puts Texas at odds with the "shall not be infringed" and well outside any reasonable "regulation" of the militia. The "militia", you and I, were never to be "debarred the use of arms".
Best bet would be to get rid of all Federal gun laws and revamp all State laws on the Alaska model.
It's no 'rant'.
Too bad so few here at FR can agree. -- As you say, sharp lawyers have so 'completely obfuscated' these basic constitutional issues that everybody runs about arguing petty details, -- losing sight of principles.
The 14th Amendment does not equal freedom, tpaine. Your argument is uncoordinated.
"The 2nd doesn't really need 'incorporation' by the USSC.
None of the amendments did. -- They all apply as being an integral part of our supreme Law of the Land. -- According to:
Article VI, Clause 2"
Very good, tpaine. I have taught you something.
The supremacy clause makes "incorporation" doctrine superfluous at best. The judges in every state are bound by the Bill of Rights.
"none of the federal BOR could possible apply to the states until the 14th"
WT, what are the "federal BOR"? Laws in the Constitution belong to neither Federal nor State, but are superior to both.
"This is basic Constitution 101"
It's also Federalist 39, one of the best and most instructive about what this country is.
Yep, and our freedom was basically won at gunpoint, -- twice.
Why do we need to do anything about that?
H.Akston inanely wrote:
The 14th Amendment does not equal freedom, tpaine. Your argument is uncoordinated.
The 14th helps protect our freedoms, hugh.
"Uncoordinated"? What is that supposed to mean?
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