LET THEM GO [China should take in NoKo refugees]

Opinion Journal (WSJ) ^ | October 15, 2006 | MELANIE KIRKPATRICK

[Timeout]

If China is to assume what it considers to be its rightful place as a great power, now is the moment. The world is looking to Beijing as the only government with a measure of influence over its lunatic nuclear ward in the Hermit Kingdom. The question is, will it use it?

China says it favors "punitive" actions on Pyongyang for its apparent nuclear test last week, and there's talk--so far desultory--of sanctions. But no one is speaking publicly about Beijing's biggest source of influence: the 900-mile border it shares with North Korea. Opening the frontier to refugees would put pressure on Kim Jong Il to give up his nukes or watch his regime implode. As Mark Palmer, U.S. ambassador to Hungary in 1989, has noted, the East German refugees who passed through that country en route to West Germany sped the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[Timeout]

Interesting. I hadn't thought to compare the North Korean situation to the flood of refugees emerging from behind the Berlin Wall in 1989.

Just the threat by China to open its borders and establish refugee camps would likely hasten the end of Kim's regime. Not to mention, it would be the humanitarian thing to do.

[DoctorMichael]

Sorry, but this is a pipe dream. If I recall correctly, a number of analysts have given one of the reasons for the Chinese keeping Kim-kim propped up is that they DON'T want any NK refugees.

[Timeout]

That's the conventional wisdom. Which is why it's the one ploy that could bring down Kim's regime.

China might not even have to open its borders. Just letting Kim think they were going to would weaken Kim's hand and likely force him to submit to verifiable disarmament.

[ops33]

I always thought the reason why China continues to prop up North Korea is because it is a means of counteracting the US by proxy. I find it very hard to believe that the Chinese did not know, and tacitly approve, of their mini-nuke test. The Chinese then come out and pontificate about how provocative the test was, how unacceptable the test was, how the UN must act, then pushes for a waterdowned, meaningless Security Council Resolution.

[Uncle Chip]

Why don't we send some of our "Open Border Globalist Intellectuals" over to China to lecture them about the value of open border immigration.

[DoctorMichael]

....counteracting the US by proxy.....

I agree completely......that this is a MAJOR reason. However, I don't think ANY nation or its people will tolerate massive immigration; Witness the Minuteman Project.

.....nevermind purposely setting up empty Refugee Camps with a 'Vacancy' sign out front.

[Daveinyork]

China cannot be in favor of a nuke armed NK. It will lead to that which they fear the most - a re-armed Japan.

[DB]

I believe China has used NK as a proxy to tie up US troops and resources for years. I also believe that they've lost control of their Chia pet. With a NK test nuke going off, Japan and others in the region are going to want to go nuclear. That is seriously not in China's interests.

[diverteach]

China's over population now allow's them to only have one girl per family or face a forced abortion.

For a country to feel the need to get so radical in order to control the population of it's own people, let your imagination wonder about what it might do if floods of North Koreans start flocking towards them.

[Prime Choice]

Just the threat by China to open its borders and establish refugee camps would likely hasten the end of Kim's regime.

Which is precisely why Beijing won't do it. North Korea is not doing one thing that China hasn't long ago blessed.

If China didn't want Kim Jong-Il doing what he's doing, there'd have been Chinese tanks with grass growing under them in Pyongyang last year.

[ivy]

No one wants NK refugees.

(Well maybe Bush would gladly take a few million of them and put them on welfare, but I was talking about countries in the actual region).

Why are we in SK anyways?

[Prime Choice]

I always thought the reason why China continues to prop up North Korea is because it is a means of counteracting the US by proxy. I find it very hard to believe that the Chinese did not know, and tacitly approve, of their mini-nuke test. The Chinese then come out and pontificate about how provocative the test was, how unacceptable the test was, how the UN must act, then pushes for a waterdowned, meaningless Security Council Resolution.

Absolutely agreed. China is testing the resolve of the West and finding that it has rotted from within (as is appallingly evident by the impotent hand-wringing of the U.N.). In time, they'll know just how impotent and incompetent the West has become at defending itself, and then they'll make their expansionist moves.

What's sad is that our "leaders" must certainly know this, yet still do nothing beyond passing meaningless resolutions and leaving the enemy to do what it will without fear of consequence.

[Prime Choice]

Why are we in SK anyways?

Pick up a world atlas and a history book of the 20th century. The answers are in there.

[ivy]

The Cold War is OVER friend.

It's time to get our troops out of SK.

This is the 21st centuray now.

[Prime Choice]

The Cold War is OVER friend.

You are so mistaken on that claim. So grossly mistaken.

[ivy]

You tell me why having our troops in SK is a good thing?

Why are we still involved in Korean internal affairs?

You tell me why SK, with twice the population and 50 times the economy CAN'T DEFEND HERSELF?

US troops should have been pulled out of SK the moment the USSR fell.

[Prime Choice]

You tell me why having our troops in SK is a good thing?

Already told you where to find the answers. I'm not here to do your homework for you.

[ivy]

Sorry, "looking at an atlas" isn't an answer.

It's hard for anyone to come up with a concrete, rational reason why US troops are STILL in Korea after 50+ years, especially considering the FACT that SK has twice the population and 50 times the economy.

Troops in Korea are nothing but a COLD WAR HANGOVER.

[GSlob]

Proxy is like a [trained] dog on a leash, or even without leash - a measure of obedience is a sine qua non requirement. Kim seems to be grossly deficient in that department.

[maui_hawaii]

Check out this thread

[MaineVoter2002]

Looks like the world is beginning to loo at China as the new superpower. Sad to see it happen. Not surprised.

[maui_hawaii]

This is a very interesting option.

It would have a massive effect.

Simply provide a haven for those wanting to leave N. Korea. Whether in China or not...

WOW.

[Moonman62]

Look at how our acceptance of Cuban refugees quickly toppled Castro.

[maui_hawaii]

Now that you mention it, I will revise my above post.

These people who would otherwise leave are one of the major factors putting pressure on N. Korean leadership.

[maui_hawaii]

Plus, where would you put anywhere between 10 -15 million people....

[Democratshavenobrains]

The Chinese are well-known for their altruism.

/sarcasm

They are still mad at the West for getting them hooked on Opium in the 1800's. They aren't going to help the world.

[investigateworld]

The post Boxer War Treaties imposed on China are not forgotten either.

Can you imagine Chinese gunboats patrolling the Mississippi River?

"Hey we gotta protect our laundries"

(A tip 'o de old hat to Will Rogers)

[hershey]

South Korea doesn't want them.

[Petey139]

Won't work, the reason why China doesn't want Nkoreans is because they are more of a threat to them than to Kim. Accepting refugees isn't as easy as you may think.

First, China cannot monitor who comes in, All they know is it's 24 Million refugee with the possibility of Kim being one of them and lets not forget former soldiers that are still armed with weaponry.

Second, Being a refugee is the lowest of the low for many. Former Soldiers will probably go into underworld because they can. A big fear for China. They can involve themselves in Sex Traffic, Child Traffic, Drug & Counterfeit, Weapons poliferation, Gambling and murder for hire and not to mention the possibilities of numerous factions of soldiers in the underworld, the turf wars this can create. This will take down the CCP's control of the area because that area those Refugees usually hide in are home to China's Ethnic Koreans. They can easily blend in.

Third, Controlling these refugees isn't easy. You just can't tell South Korea to accept them because they won't. Even South Korea has their limit and giving 24 Million Korea a "Welcome Check of $10,000.00 WON or so." adds up to a good $240 Billion Won or $241 M in USD. Even for China it's a bloodbath for it's finances. If China doesn't take care of them, they will just resort to crime.

And the list goes on. If China were to accept them, Not only will they lose their buffer zone, they will also lose control and it will mark the fall of the CCP, 24 Million Koreans, 1 Million Armed easily spells "Civil War".

[ModelBreaker]

Which is why it's the one ploy that could bring down Kim's regime.

China doesn't want NK to fall. They find it useful to have an insane little brother with nuclear weapons whose leash they can jerk. It occupies the US while China builds its military. NK and Iran.

[Mamzelle]

SK is wealthy, with a well-funded and technologically advanced military. If SK can't take care of themselves, no nation can. It's time to move out of SK.

[Mamzelle]

re: You just can't tell South Korea to accept them because they won't.)))

LOL--they won't have much to say about it when they just show up, unless you think the SKs will open fire on them?

I've spoken to several SK'ans who seem to be under the delusion that the US is going to take care of the NK refugee problem. This is yet another reason we need to pull our troops out.

[Prime Choice]

What you describe is what Jimmy Carter did with Iran and what Clinton tried to do with South Korea.

You may wish to consider switching parties.

[hinckley buzzard]

That's the conventional wisdom. Which is why it's the one ploy that could bring down Kim's regime.

Why do you think China would want to "bring down Kim's regime?" I imagine they want to have better control over him, but I have never seen any sign that they want his regime to fall.

I have to agree--this is a pipe dream.

[Mamzelle]

Accding to your tagline--I guess you already have.

[Mamzelle]

The whole reason that Kim is trying to drag the US into one-one talks is to gain creds with China. His country is imploding, and nobody likes it. The zenophobes to the south (and SK is as insular as Japan, maybe more so) live in dread of even a few refugees. More than a few is unthinkable and if we still have troops there we're going-somehow- to be made to be responsible for them. Everyone dumps on the US, why wouln't SK try to make us take a few million communist refugees?...a big reason I think we ought to pull out of SK. These are people who can't adopt a child if they are infertile! Close blood ties are a fetish.

We assume that there's a kinship between SK and NK--but it's really fear on the part of SK that the NK'ns will get too close to them...they pay all kinds of kickbacks under the table to the north in dread of the refugee.

They'd like to unify the two countries, to see the North stable, to try to control the deluge of impoverished and "disgusting" refugees. Not because of any sense of kinship.

[DoctorMichael]

Sorry, but this is a pipe dream. If I recall correctly, a number of analysts have given one of the reasons for the Chinese keeping Kim-kim propped up is that they DON'T want any NK refugees.

That's the conventional wisdom. Which is why it's the one ploy that could bring down Kim's regime.......China might not even have to open its borders. Just letting Kim think they were going to would weaken Kim's hand and likely force him to submit to verifiable disarmament.

China erects North Korea border fence(anxiety at the border)
Yomiuri Shimbun ^ | 10/16/06 | Masahiko Takekoshi

Posted on 10/16/2006 8:31:45 AM EDT by TigerLikesRooster

China erects North Korea border fence

Masahiko Takekoshi / Yomiuri Shimbun Correspondent

Barbed wire fences stand along the Yalu River bordering China and North Korea in Dandong, Liaoning Province, China. The left side is North Korea.

Ahead of the adoption of a U.N. Security Council resolution against Pyongyang, China increased security along its border with North Korea by building fences in and near Dandong, Liaoning Province, its largest city on the border