Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Russia pulls out of its big spy base in Cuba
Guardian/UK ^ | 10/18/01 | Kevin O'Flynn in Moscow

Posted on 10/17/2001 7:43:32 PM PDT by kattracks

Nearly 40 years after troops from the Soviet Union arrived in Cuba, President Putin of Russia has ordered his military to pack up and leave what was once an important spy base there, heralding the end of Moscow's presence on the island.

Russia said the move, announced after a stormy meeting at the Russian defence ministry, was down to the cost of keeping the base going. But others see it as a goodwill signal to Washington and President George Bush.

Only 100 miles from Key West in Florida, the Lourdes spy base proved crucial for intelligence during and after the cold war. It is said to be Russia's largest spy base, covering 28 square miles south of Havana and able to spy on the White House and Nasa.

The base has been a big cause of irritation between the US and Russia. Last year, the US House of Representatives passed a bill to try to prevent America from rescheduling Russian's international debt unless Lourdes was shut down.

Through the base, the Kremlin is said to have learned of America's battle plans for the 1990-91 Gulf war. President Putin praised the base and its thousand-plus employees when he visited last December.

The chief of the general staff, Anatoly Kvashnin, said that Lourdes had been vital during the cold war. But priorities had changed, making the base's annual cost of $200m harder to justify.

"Now, the military-political situation has changed and there has been a qualitative leap in military equipment. With that money we can buy and launch 20 communication, intelligence and information satellites, and buy up to 100 sophisticated radars," General Kvashnin said.

Military experts saw the decision as a sign to Washington that Russia is serious about a partnership with the west.

"It's the first real signal of Mr Putin's that he is sincere in his relations with the United States," said Alexander Golts, a military expert with the Moscow newspaper Izvestia.


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last

1 posted on 10/17/2001 7:43:32 PM PDT by kattracks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: kattracks
If Russia and the United States truly become Allies, then we cannot be stopped.

China will fall before us.

Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

Russia has some incredible research skills and a very impressive brain trust, and an immense mineral wealth. I hope they become fast friends with us.

2 posted on 10/17/2001 7:47:47 PM PDT by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: flamefront; Askel5; GeronL; AGAviator
Big changes going on right now.
3 posted on 10/17/2001 7:48:29 PM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
making the base's annual cost of $200m harder to justify.

If they want to, they could get much more info by paying much less. China showed them the way.

4 posted on 10/17/2001 7:49:53 PM PDT by Cool Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
If Russia and the United States truly become Allies, then we cannot be stopped.

I would still be wary of the FORMER KGB head.

5 posted on 10/17/2001 7:50:37 PM PDT by Cool Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
I don't buy it. Castro is a lying snake like Putin. Castro will not be all alone. He's signed a stratigic aliance with China not long ago. He's been sending Russian and Chinese troops into Mexico and establishing bases their. Our own border patrol has seen Chinese and Cuban soldiers dressed in Mexican miliary uniforms south of the border. I simply don't but it. Russia is still communist as far as I can tell. I don't trust them.
6 posted on 10/17/2001 7:52:16 PM PDT by Tribulation Force
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
That's why Bush is taking his chances by going to China. Meeting with Putin could bring about some very positive developments.

Russia still has elements that hate the US deeply, there are people over there happy about 9/11, burning the flag at rallies, but then again there are some equally disgusting liberals over here.

Still, there are plenty of decent people over there and there are certain common goals of civilization that we share. I hope Bush has great luck in his visit, which you know good well Clinton would have canceled for the sake of the safety of his pastey white butt, at the expense of all humanity.

8 posted on 10/17/2001 7:52:49 PM PDT by EaglesUpForever
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
The parties are lining up for WW III. Our old ally comes home to roost.
9 posted on 10/17/2001 7:53:20 PM PDT by Liberals are Evil Socialists!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
I would still be wary of the FORMER KGB head.

Yeah, I know. But remember: Bush is the son of the FORMER CIA head. So they could say the same thing.

I think we might both be on the up-and-up. It no longer looks like a communism-versus-capitalism world. It now seems more like a civilized-versus-uncivilized world. If my premise is correct, Russia falls firmly in a 'western', i.e., cultured and civilized, camp.

10 posted on 10/17/2001 7:53:48 PM PDT by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
See also: U.S. "Aggressively" Backing Russian WTO Membership After September 11

All the US needs now is for Russia to give the go ahead on the ABM treaty.

11 posted on 10/17/2001 7:53:59 PM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Freedom007
Since we are now a Communist state there is little need for Russia to spend money watching us.

Well, there is that angle as well. It seems we are pretty much Russia, with some nicer cars.

12 posted on 10/17/2001 7:54:51 PM PDT by Lazamataz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
Trust but verify. But I think Putin is a good man, and I hope for the day that Russia and the US can get over their mutual mistrust and become allies. The Soviet Union is gone and it ain't coming back.
13 posted on 10/17/2001 7:55:24 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Sawdring
Stop fooling yourself. There is good and there is evil.
Anatoly Kvashnin, head of the Staff the Russian Armed Forces, 15 of November of 1999: The zone of responsability of NATO grew of 650-750 kilometers to the east, what sensibly reduced the strategical alarm period of Russia.
14 posted on 10/17/2001 7:55:55 PM PDT by Milosevic2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

Still capable of stabbing us in the back.
16 posted on 10/17/2001 7:56:18 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator
Don't be so sure.
17 posted on 10/17/2001 7:56:26 PM PDT by Tribulation Force
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
It no longer looks like a communism-versus-capitalism world. It now seems more like a civilized-versus-uncivilized world. If my premise is correct, Russia falls firmly in a 'western', i.e., cultured and civilized, camp.

Very true. Right now, we have common interests in eleminating the islamic terrorists. But after this crisis, USa nad RUSSIA need to sit down and do a LOT of talking before we can be allies. But, I am sure, the relationship will be very beneficial to both USA and RUSSIA, and ofcourse to the Civilized world.

18 posted on 10/17/2001 7:58:00 PM PDT by Cool Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
I think we might both be on the up-and-up. It no longer looks like a communism-versus-capitalism world. It now seems more like a civilized-versus-uncivilized world. If my premise is correct, Russia falls firmly in a 'western', i.e., cultured and civilized, camp.

I, for one, think you are right.
19 posted on 10/17/2001 7:58:44 PM PDT by Fiddlstix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
If Russia and the United States truly become Allies, then we cannot be stopped. China will fall before us. Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

There is something so naive about this kind of sentimentality. It reminds me of all propaganda.

20 posted on 10/17/2001 7:59:48 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Diddle E. Squat
Still capable of stabbing us in the back.

That is what we should be afraid of. It is not if they will or will not, but THEY CAN, IF THEY WANT TO.

22 posted on 10/17/2001 8:00:39 PM PDT by Cool Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
China will fall before us.

Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

Even if Russia and USA become allies, the above 2 may not happen at all. China is going to be a big player, not becuase of its military power, but mainly because of its importance in the economic world. Also with 1.2 billion people following Islam, it is going to be around for a while.

23 posted on 10/17/2001 8:05:28 PM PDT by Cool Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

Yes! One of the interesting things about Putin is his wrapping Russia in the old 'defender of the Christian Faith' banner of Tsars. It may be just good internal politics for the old KGB head, but who cares? After all the atheist nonsense of the communist era, Russia seems to be coming around hard right.

24 posted on 10/17/2001 8:07:56 PM PDT by winstonchurchill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Good news. This should put a dent in the Slavophobic enthusiasms of some FReepers.
25 posted on 10/17/2001 8:07:57 PM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Am I the only one concerned about the China trip? Pardon me as I don my tin-foil hat, but is it totally improbable that they might attempt a take-down of Bush? Say an attack, kills a few Chinese leaders too for plausible deniability, which just so happens to coincide with mass dispruption by terrorists in the US(truck bombs, perhaps "dirty bombs" in one or two dozen cities, bio releases, infrastructure attacks, cyber attacks), attack by N. Korea on South, attack by Iraq on Israel, coups in Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt.

I don't buy it, too risky for mass retaliation of nukes, but there is a more realistic scenario that concerns me. What if they try to hold Bush hostage? Coincide with several terrorist acts in US(truck bombs, infrastructure attacks, smallpox bio spread) that are limited but show capability, attacks on Isreal and S. Korea. Immediate massing to take Taiwan, warn that any US interference will result in nuke attacks, death of pres., and massive terrorist actions.

OK, tin-foil hat off now, but how is there no risk of such a scenario by the proponents of Unlimited Warfare?

26 posted on 10/17/2001 8:11:28 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: flamefront; Black Jade; Askel5; GeronL; AGAviator
Russia Will Close Bases in Cuba and Vietnam in 2002

Cam Ranh Bay also! Either they are too poor to keep them or major moves and realignments are being made.

27 posted on 10/17/2001 8:12:58 PM PDT by Sawdring
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
Also with 1.2 billion people following Islam, it is going to be around for a while.

Well, I think OBL and friends are helping us there. He is showing that the choice is (a) 8th century moon god worship with all the trappings (and the promise of 72 more or less virgins when you die) or (b)life in the 21st century and Jesus Christ. While the former may have some appeal if all you have is a pair of sandals, a lot of sand and you can't read, it kind of pales against the Truth and modern life.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, etc.

28 posted on 10/17/2001 8:14:35 PM PDT by winstonchurchill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
Or at least act like it.
29 posted on 10/17/2001 8:16:36 PM PDT by carenot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
Just remember, the Russians are the world's best chess players. Everything is strategic, and their real motives are always hidden.
31 posted on 10/17/2001 8:21:06 PM PDT by SirAllen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SirAllen
What does Russia have to gain by being belligerent towards the West? Until the Communists came into power, Russia looked to the West (thank you Peter the Great). The old hardliners are dying off. This is a golden opportunity to bring Russia into the fold. Clinton blew it, let's hope Bush doesn't. As far as China, the Russians fear them more than they ever feared us.

The Vietnamese still don't like China either, that's why we will probably get Cam Ranh Bay back.

32 posted on 10/17/2001 8:27:10 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
I would still be wary of the FORMER KGB head.

Judge him by his deeds.

33 posted on 10/17/2001 8:29:41 PM PDT by gcruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: cornelis; JMJ333
There is something so naive about this
kind of sentimentality. It reminds me of all propaganda.

For one thing, China wants to use antiterrorism as a cover
to solve its own breakaway Muslim problem.  The PRC
could well be a ally in the fight against terrorists.  Russia
also for its Chechen problem.   This is realpolitik.  Real
issues at stake.  There is something addlebrained about
dismissing actions as propaganda.

34 posted on 10/17/2001 8:33:36 PM PDT by gcruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
Never happen.
35 posted on 10/17/2001 8:36:45 PM PDT by cynicom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Maybe W let them know that Cuba's a target. ;o)
36 posted on 10/17/2001 8:44:56 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
Actions are not dismissable, neither is propaganda. They each have their ineluctable consequences.
37 posted on 10/17/2001 8:52:47 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: cornelis
Actions are not dismissable, neither is propaganda.
They each have their ineluctable consequences.

in·e·luc·ta·ble (n-lkt-bl)
  adj.

       Not to be avoided or escaped; inevitable

What is inescapable about propaganda?

38 posted on 10/17/2001 9:02:53 PM PDT by gcruse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: winstonchurchill
There is one huge problem with Russia & a lesson we should've learned. Russia and its people have lost its Christian based value system- it was purged with the church after the revolition. One reason Russia, with all its brain power and resources, cannot succeed is the lack of values & morals. The government is corrupt and its people are corrupt.
39 posted on 10/17/2001 9:09:48 PM PDT by Archie Bunker on steroids
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
This is all about submarines??
Does China want the Submarine bases??
40 posted on 10/17/2001 9:09:54 PM PDT by maestro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HKUSP9mm
Russia is part of Christendom. Alas to some "the West" means those societies which inheritted the struggles between the Papacy and the German Emperor, the Reformation and the Counter-reformation. Russia (and Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria,...) do not share that history. "The West" in a modern global context should mean Christendom. We need to change the mindset of our leaders so it does. This will entail changing sides in the Balkans.
41 posted on 10/17/2001 9:14:00 PM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: gcruse
What is inescapable about propaganda?

Good question. For one, after you unmask it, once you expose it, it is too late. The knowledge that it is propaganda is ineffectual to stop it from being said.

But there must be quite a few more stubborn things about propaganda. Those who use it, I suspect, resign themselves to an inevitable concatenation of meandering, imprecision, and obfuscation, not to mention havoc on the respect for others. Good propagandists usually end up in "the ministry" religious, academic, or governmental.

42 posted on 10/17/2001 9:27:06 PM PDT by cornelis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy; Lazamataz
Russia has been in a process of becoming "Americanized" since before the WTC attack. OBL and his fools have only speeded up the process. He's forcing countries to see who their real friends are, and Russia would much rather have a future with the West than with china or the islamists.
43 posted on 10/17/2001 9:52:11 PM PDT by Don Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
We could do the same to them vis-a-vis china. I don't expect either situation to occur. The adults are in charge in both countries, and they both seem to be vested in saving civilization from the barbarians. There are old-line commies in Russia, but their days are winding down, and their influence is waning. The people there do not want to go back to the communist utopia, they don't want to go to a world dominated by chinese imperialism, and they don't want to end up in an islamic republic. They want to go to the Mall of America, and then start opening branches in Russia.
44 posted on 10/17/2001 9:55:37 PM PDT by Don Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Cool Guy
once a commie, always a commie. we wont be defeated by making us mad, we can be defeated by making us complacent and fat, dumb, and happy, and careless. only problem is, putin has forgotten that fat ass bubba clinton and his fat wife are no longer president. oh well, but dont be fooled. we dont need to be lulled into submission. let putin reduce his nukes, and stop opposing missile defense, and then we can CONSIDER taking putin as a POTENTIAL ally.
45 posted on 10/17/2001 10:10:08 PM PDT by nocommies
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Tribulation Force
"Russia is still communist as far as I can tell."

Negative. Russia's means of production were privatized in the early 1990's, leading to a chaotic system of private enterprise. Then, at the turn of the twenty-first century, Putin completed those parts of the reformation that had been left undone, to wit, with his support, legislation allowing for the sale and ownership of land recently cleared the Duma. In addition, the Duma also recently passed a 13% flat tax, moving away from their earlier confiscatory tax rates. On top of all that, Christ the Savior Cathedral now dominates the skyline of Moscow. It'll take time, but they're working towards becoming a normal country.

Of course, with a moniker like "Tribulation Force," you likely hold to a theology which requires Russia to be evil, invade Israel, etc., thus facilitating the Second Coming. Bear in mind, dude, that readings of Ezekiel that equate Russia with "Rosh" are problematic at best, and silly at worst.

46 posted on 10/17/2001 10:11:20 PM PDT by AndrewSshi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
I believe we are a lot like the Russians. We've just had too many egos in the way. The Russians are very much like our European friends.
47 posted on 10/17/2001 10:17:46 PM PDT by boycott
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Well, good or bad, there's got to be a reason they don't need, or won't be using, the spy base in Cuba now.
48 posted on 10/17/2001 11:09:41 PM PDT by vox1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: kattracks
Putin also has advised Russians not to enter the United States for the next 3 weeks, as has Gorbachev, for reasons concerning terrorist attacks. Perhaps they know something we don't. Perhaps they don't need to spy on us anymore. Maybe they have insider knowledge about a future attack on the United States and don't want to lose any of their people.
49 posted on 10/18/2001 12:28:40 AM PDT by vox1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lazamataz
If Russia and the United States truly become Allies, then we cannot be stopped.

Good point, and with Bush in the White House, I think it's gonna happen.

50 posted on 10/18/2001 12:35:27 AM PDT by Clinton's a rapist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson