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Russia pulls out of its big spy base in Cuba
Guardian/UK ^ | 10/18/01 | Kevin O'Flynn in Moscow

Posted on 10/17/2001 7:43:32 PM PDT by kattracks

Nearly 40 years after troops from the Soviet Union arrived in Cuba, President Putin of Russia has ordered his military to pack up and leave what was once an important spy base there, heralding the end of Moscow's presence on the island.

Russia said the move, announced after a stormy meeting at the Russian defence ministry, was down to the cost of keeping the base going. But others see it as a goodwill signal to Washington and President George Bush.

Only 100 miles from Key West in Florida, the Lourdes spy base proved crucial for intelligence during and after the cold war. It is said to be Russia's largest spy base, covering 28 square miles south of Havana and able to spy on the White House and Nasa.

The base has been a big cause of irritation between the US and Russia. Last year, the US House of Representatives passed a bill to try to prevent America from rescheduling Russian's international debt unless Lourdes was shut down.

Through the base, the Kremlin is said to have learned of America's battle plans for the 1990-91 Gulf war. President Putin praised the base and its thousand-plus employees when he visited last December.

The chief of the general staff, Anatoly Kvashnin, said that Lourdes had been vital during the cold war. But priorities had changed, making the base's annual cost of $200m harder to justify.

"Now, the military-political situation has changed and there has been a qualitative leap in military equipment. With that money we can buy and launch 20 communication, intelligence and information satellites, and buy up to 100 sophisticated radars," General Kvashnin said.

Military experts saw the decision as a sign to Washington that Russia is serious about a partnership with the west.

"It's the first real signal of Mr Putin's that he is sincere in his relations with the United States," said Alexander Golts, a military expert with the Moscow newspaper Izvestia.


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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: Diddle E. Squat
Still capable of stabbing us in the back.

That is what we should be afraid of. It is not if they will or will not, but THEY CAN, IF THEY WANT TO.

22 posted on 10/17/2001 8:00:39 PM PDT by Cool Guy
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To: Lazamataz
China will fall before us.

Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

Even if Russia and USA become allies, the above 2 may not happen at all. China is going to be a big player, not becuase of its military power, but mainly because of its importance in the economic world. Also with 1.2 billion people following Islam, it is going to be around for a while.

23 posted on 10/17/2001 8:05:28 PM PDT by Cool Guy
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To: Lazamataz
Islam will be a brief and silly memory.

Yes! One of the interesting things about Putin is his wrapping Russia in the old 'defender of the Christian Faith' banner of Tsars. It may be just good internal politics for the old KGB head, but who cares? After all the atheist nonsense of the communist era, Russia seems to be coming around hard right.

24 posted on 10/17/2001 8:07:56 PM PDT by winstonchurchill
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To: kattracks
Good news. This should put a dent in the Slavophobic enthusiasms of some FReepers.
25 posted on 10/17/2001 8:07:57 PM PDT by The_Reader_David
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Am I the only one concerned about the China trip? Pardon me as I don my tin-foil hat, but is it totally improbable that they might attempt a take-down of Bush? Say an attack, kills a few Chinese leaders too for plausible deniability, which just so happens to coincide with mass dispruption by terrorists in the US(truck bombs, perhaps "dirty bombs" in one or two dozen cities, bio releases, infrastructure attacks, cyber attacks), attack by N. Korea on South, attack by Iraq on Israel, coups in Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt.

I don't buy it, too risky for mass retaliation of nukes, but there is a more realistic scenario that concerns me. What if they try to hold Bush hostage? Coincide with several terrorist acts in US(truck bombs, infrastructure attacks, smallpox bio spread) that are limited but show capability, attacks on Isreal and S. Korea. Immediate massing to take Taiwan, warn that any US interference will result in nuke attacks, death of pres., and massive terrorist actions.

OK, tin-foil hat off now, but how is there no risk of such a scenario by the proponents of Unlimited Warfare?

26 posted on 10/17/2001 8:11:28 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: flamefront; Black Jade; Askel5; GeronL; AGAviator
Russia Will Close Bases in Cuba and Vietnam in 2002

Cam Ranh Bay also! Either they are too poor to keep them or major moves and realignments are being made.

27 posted on 10/17/2001 8:12:58 PM PDT by Sawdring
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To: Cool Guy
Also with 1.2 billion people following Islam, it is going to be around for a while.

Well, I think OBL and friends are helping us there. He is showing that the choice is (a) 8th century moon god worship with all the trappings (and the promise of 72 more or less virgins when you die) or (b)life in the 21st century and Jesus Christ. While the former may have some appeal if all you have is a pair of sandals, a lot of sand and you can't read, it kind of pales against the Truth and modern life.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, etc.

28 posted on 10/17/2001 8:14:35 PM PDT by winstonchurchill
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To: Lazamataz
Or at least act like it.
29 posted on 10/17/2001 8:16:36 PM PDT by carenot
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: kattracks
Just remember, the Russians are the world's best chess players. Everything is strategic, and their real motives are always hidden.
31 posted on 10/17/2001 8:21:06 PM PDT by SirAllen
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To: SirAllen
What does Russia have to gain by being belligerent towards the West? Until the Communists came into power, Russia looked to the West (thank you Peter the Great). The old hardliners are dying off. This is a golden opportunity to bring Russia into the fold. Clinton blew it, let's hope Bush doesn't. As far as China, the Russians fear them more than they ever feared us.

The Vietnamese still don't like China either, that's why we will probably get Cam Ranh Bay back.

32 posted on 10/17/2001 8:27:10 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Cool Guy
I would still be wary of the FORMER KGB head.

Judge him by his deeds.

33 posted on 10/17/2001 8:29:41 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: cornelis; JMJ333
There is something so naive about this
kind of sentimentality. It reminds me of all propaganda.

For one thing, China wants to use antiterrorism as a cover
to solve its own breakaway Muslim problem.  The PRC
could well be a ally in the fight against terrorists.  Russia
also for its Chechen problem.   This is realpolitik.  Real
issues at stake.  There is something addlebrained about
dismissing actions as propaganda.

34 posted on 10/17/2001 8:33:36 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: Lazamataz
Never happen.
35 posted on 10/17/2001 8:36:45 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: kattracks
Maybe W let them know that Cuba's a target. ;o)
36 posted on 10/17/2001 8:44:56 PM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: gcruse
Actions are not dismissable, neither is propaganda. They each have their ineluctable consequences.
37 posted on 10/17/2001 8:52:47 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: cornelis
Actions are not dismissable, neither is propaganda.
They each have their ineluctable consequences.

in·e·luc·ta·ble (n-lkt-bl)
  adj.

       Not to be avoided or escaped; inevitable

What is inescapable about propaganda?

38 posted on 10/17/2001 9:02:53 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: winstonchurchill
There is one huge problem with Russia & a lesson we should've learned. Russia and its people have lost its Christian based value system- it was purged with the church after the revolition. One reason Russia, with all its brain power and resources, cannot succeed is the lack of values & morals. The government is corrupt and its people are corrupt.
39 posted on 10/17/2001 9:09:48 PM PDT by Archie Bunker on steroids
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To: kattracks
This is all about submarines??
Does China want the Submarine bases??
40 posted on 10/17/2001 9:09:54 PM PDT by maestro
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