Draft Realities: An unpopular truth

National War Review Online ^ | October 24, 2001 | Stanley War Kurtz

[OWK]

When did you volunteer?

1979

[OWK]

view it as forced servitude if you would like...i prefer to hold the view that AMERICA offers so much to its citizens that citizenship carries with it a 2 -3 year obligation to serve and protect that wich we all enjoy.

You can "prefer" to hold whatever view that you wish.

That does nothing to change the reality, of the fact that the draft is involuntary servitude, and hence it is immoral.

[sailor4321]

Compelled. After all, there is nothing immoral about involuntary servitude....builds character, keeps labor costs down, creates a real appreciation for freedom. Its an idea abandoned far too readily.

[freeeee]

Let's see if I have this straight:

America's military is overextended because of nation-building commitments and defense of perfectly capable countries in literally dozens of countries including Europe and elsewhere.

Because of this misuse of our military for uses aside from its intended purpose (defense of the US), our military is now shorthanded and isn't enough manpower to fight a legitimate war.

And because of this, I'm supposed to cheerfully submit to the slavery of conscription?

DREAM ON!

[OWK]

After all, there is nothing immoral about involuntary servitude....

Amazing...

[Kevin Curry]

That does nothing to change the reality, of the fact that the draft is involuntary servitude, and hence it is immoral.

No, it isn't a "fact." It's your dim-bulb Randian opinion, And it is your opinion that is immoral.

[freeeee]

involuntary servitude.... creates a real appreciation for freedom.

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

[OWK]

No, it isn't a "fact."

Involuntary servitude is moral?

[sean327]

As a Marine "lifer" with 17 years of service to this great country, I have some problems with instituting the draft. 1.I don't want a Marine in my unit who doesn't want to be there. His attitude can poison a unit, and create hundreds of problems Commanders and SNCO's will have to deal with taking time away from the mission at hand. 2. I too think the draft is imoral, you cannot coerce military service from the unwilling in a free society. I wish that more Americans would enter the military, but that is a decision they have to make on their own. As for the standing army concept, those of us who have chosen military service as our career are for the most part consumate professionals who love this country dearly and strive to uphold the ideals this country was founded on. We take seriously our oathe "To Uphold and Defend the Constitution of the United States Against All Enemies Foreign and Domestic".The thought of the military taking control sickens us. Semper Fi

[Sabertooth]

"And I support the draft not for what it will possibly do for draftees, but because the Founding Fathers very wisely were suspicious of a large standing army, which most certainly now have."

The Founders were so justly suspicious of standing armies. But your conclusion that they therefore favored conscription is a non-sequiteur.

Nowhere in the Constitution is Congress given the power to conscript. Nor was there any American tradition of conscription at the time of Ratification. Never during the Revolutionary War nor under the Articles of Confederation was the Continental Congress given the power to conscript. It isn't there, and never was.

I'm not criticizing military service, but the draft is contrary to the plain meaning of the Constitution.

[Stefan Stackhouse]

What I have always favored is universal military service somewhat along the Swiss model, but for homeland defense only. We older guys and the 4Fs could serve in something a little more in line with the UK's WWII Home Guard, or in units like the Civil Air Patrol or Coast Guard Auxiliary. The younger, physically fit guys would get the periodic combat training and essentially do most of the domestic stuff that the National Guard units do now.

Overseas deployments, however, should be left strictly to PROFESSIONAL VOLUNTEERS. Our Army/Navy/Air Force/USMC are high quality precisely because everyone on board wants to be there. These services should be tasked exclusively with overseas force projection missions, and have no domestic tasks. Homeland security should be the responsibility of all of us guys who are not presently serving in one of the four main service branches.

We could probably set it up so that those who serve time in one of the 4 overseas forces could earn release time from their homeland defense obligations.

Having a homeland defense force in which every male citizen participates is a good way to "pre-train" a large pool of prospective volunteers should the 4 overseas services need more manpower in wartime. Some additional training would be needed before the volunteers could be deployed, but they wouldn't be starting from scratch, so the turnaround time could be greatly reduced.

Need I mention, too, that having a universally armed citizenry who have been trained to work together to secure an area would do wonders for our crime rate!

[The Green Goblin]

After all, there is nothing immoral about involuntary servitude....builds character, keeps labor costs down, creates a real appreciation for freedom. Its an idea abandoned far too readily.

You sound like a southern antebellum plantation owner.

[Jolly Rodgers]

Compelled. After all, there is nothing immoral about involuntary servitude....builds character, keeps labor costs down, creates a real appreciation for freedom. Its an idea abandoned far too readily.

Yeah, nothing like enslaving a man to teach him the value of freedom. You are quite Orwellian in your Newspeak. Heck, we might as well steal from people to teach them the value of property, we might as well rape to teach women the value of chastity, we might as well kill people to teach them the value of life. You are one confused dude.

[sailor4321]

A great follower of Senator Calhoun, suh! A fine gentleman of the old south and a true conservative.....

[sailor4321]

The Founders were so justly suspicious of standing armies. But your conclusion that they therefore favored conscription is a non-sequiteur.

You are right, of course, suh! That's why I didn't conclude they "favored" conscription (or, at least I don't think I said that). Howeva, one of the arguments the Federalists made to calm the fears of the anti-Federalists over the proposed ability of the Federal Government to have any army at all was that by having the militia available, the need for a large standing army would be mitigated. The militia would be (or, could be) the "first responders" until regular forces could be assembled and deployed.

As for the "involuntary servitude" entailed in defending the country which so many of you evidently abhor (the servitude, that is, not the country), my copy of the Constitution gives the Congress the power to "call forth the militia" and if you think that means that if you don't want to come you don't have to then I'm sorry to inform you that the document was NOT written in Disneyland where all fond wishes come true...

[sailor4321]

Yeah, nothing like enslaving a man to teach him the value of freedom.

Well said! Why, we now enjoy more freedoms than most any country in the world and evidently don't care a whit about those freedoms. One effective blow by the enemy and we're prepared to surrender our fourth amendment, freedom of travel, freedom of speech (at least, that of people with whom we disagree ), right of habeous corpus, etc. Perhaps we need a period of enslavement to appreciate what we are losing.

[Hacksaw]

Translation: I'm gettin my A$$ kicked, so I better get the hell outta here.

No, he is trying to debate an echo chamber, so why bother?

[Paulus Invictus]

Nevertheless, we went and served. I had not a single thought of not serving, fleeing the country or saying that I deserved an exemption or writing that I "loathed the military." I admire the 'volunteers" but we draftees felt just as patriotic and certainly left lots of our buddies in foreign burial grounds, including some of my boyhood pals.

[OWK]

Nevertheless, we went and served. I had not a single thought of not serving, fleeing the country or saying that I deserved an exemption or writing that I "loathed the military." I admire the 'volunteers" but we draftees felt just as patriotic and certainly left lots of our buddies in foreign burial grounds, including some of my boyhood pals.

I have a tremendous admiration and respect for your service as a draftee. My point is not a criticism of your response to the government's demand for your service. It is a criticism of the demand itself.

Involuntary servitude is an inappropriate mechanism with which to defend a free nation.