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To: Stavka2
Yes, thousands of dead priests is sooo unremarkable. You are so right. I am so sorry, we should be kissing your arse, especially when our other great liberators had so much Vatican support, you know those nifty northern guys from Germany: the Nazies.

Records of the Soviet secret service now made public plus the testimony of various individuals, indicate that the one person who most preoccupied the Soviets was JP II. For good reason. The Russian Orthodox hierarchy was neutered by the communists and played a similar role to that of the current Chinese Patriotic Church. At best, a docile lap dog, which said and did nothing without state approval. At worst, KGB agents in cassocks.

The crack about the Nazis is a tired lie.

I have nothing directly against Catholicism, except on the theological level...

That's called contradicting yourself, my friend. Theology is, after all, what the Church is about.

but when you act hunky doory like nothing is wrong, you insult our intelligence by making the last millinium of transgressions seem indifferent...well they are not. As things stand now, you'll have a better chance of reunifying with the 40 thousand + branches of protestantism then with Orthodoxy.

Have you been paying attention to what the Pope has been saying? He has made a habit of apologizing for the sins of the Church towards numerous groups, the Orthodox and Jews among them. He is a truly humble man. What is conspicuously lacking is a reciprocal acknowledgement that wrongs have been committed on both sides, your own rants being a fine example of this lack of reciprocity.

If you want our forgiveness for your transgressions, as Christians we'll give it to you but if you want us to simply forget them or ignore them while singing your praises then, brother, I can only say: get off the crack...it's killing your brain cells.

As I said, the Pope has already asked for forgiveness. It has been slow in coming. Any chance we'll hear a mea culpa from your side?

When ever Catholics start talking to us Orthodox it almost always comes down to trying to talk to us like some errant children who've wondered away from their parents...the prodical sons...well sorry, we're not. So next time you can't figure out where the hostility is coming from, try for once to see things form our point of view...and we are not your prodical children...you were the ones who Schismed and invented dogma on the fly.

You sound very much like the arrogant Catholics you so resent.

21 posted on 10/25/2001 1:39:07 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
First of all, yes the Church was neutered but you conspicously ignore how it was neutered: by the murder of tens of thousands of priests and monks. Or did they all all of the sudden give up their faiths and become good party members?

As for the links between the Vatican and Facism, they are not a lie. Or did all those Utushies denounce the Catholic Church first? The very church that helped thousands of them escape to S. America. The fact that the Hungarians and Spanish facists and nazies also had backing, often financial, from the Vatican is also an established fact. Just like the one that Hitler was a Catholic. Maybe not one in good standing and rather evil...but it's funny that the Vatican is yet to excommunicate the mass murdering psychopath or for that matter, any of the Nazies. Makes one wonder about all those "tired lies".

As for asking for forgiveness, he has not appologized to the Orthodox...he made some vacumous noises about forgiveness for the sins of the Christians...using the term as generic. And what about his apologies to the Musli and the kissing of the Koran while he hobnobbed with their Mufties? He even raised it to legitamicy during a UN conference. Unlike the West, we will never acknowledge that heresy/devil inspired faith for anything but what it really is, no matter the PC pressure.

22 posted on 10/25/2001 2:04:28 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: marshmallow
He is a truly humble man.

Thanks for a good laugh this morning!

56 posted on 10/27/2001 10:16:06 AM PDT by MarMema
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To: marshmallow
Have you been paying attention to what the Pope has been saying?

I have mostly been paying attention to what he has been doing. Like making a habit of visiting traditional Orthodox countries, often against their wishes. That strikes you as humility?
Then he chooses Ziggy Brezinski as a companion to visit the hotbed of Ukraine and in honor of his visit an Orthodox church is scheduled to be leveled supposedly to make room for JP2 to speak in the city. That strikes you as honorable behavior? You have my pity.
By the way, Ziggy is in bed with at least one major oil company and hates Russians with a passion. Some way to get yourself invited to Russia, eh? And there was/is a major oil pipeline being debated in Ukraine just before the time of JP2's visit.
Methinks JP2 has been delving into some worldly behaviors even beyond his excessive need for publicity and ecumenical leadership. Whether intentionally or not.

By the way, hope this answers your questions about why Russia didn't want him to come visit.

57 posted on 10/27/2001 10:24:05 AM PDT by MarMema
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