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To: marshmallow
First of all, yes the Church was neutered but you conspicously ignore how it was neutered: by the murder of tens of thousands of priests and monks. Or did they all all of the sudden give up their faiths and become good party members?

As for the links between the Vatican and Facism, they are not a lie. Or did all those Utushies denounce the Catholic Church first? The very church that helped thousands of them escape to S. America. The fact that the Hungarians and Spanish facists and nazies also had backing, often financial, from the Vatican is also an established fact. Just like the one that Hitler was a Catholic. Maybe not one in good standing and rather evil...but it's funny that the Vatican is yet to excommunicate the mass murdering psychopath or for that matter, any of the Nazies. Makes one wonder about all those "tired lies".

As for asking for forgiveness, he has not appologized to the Orthodox...he made some vacumous noises about forgiveness for the sins of the Christians...using the term as generic. And what about his apologies to the Musli and the kissing of the Koran while he hobnobbed with their Mufties? He even raised it to legitamicy during a UN conference. Unlike the West, we will never acknowledge that heresy/devil inspired faith for anything but what it really is, no matter the PC pressure.

22 posted on 10/25/2001 2:04:28 PM PDT by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
First of all, yes the Church was neutered but you conspicously ignore how it was neutered: by the murder of tens of thousands of priests and monks. Or did they all all of the sudden give up their faiths and become good party members?

The Orthodox faith has indeed had many martyrs in the fight against communism. So has the Catholic Church. No one is claiming otherwise. However, you know that the Catholic Church played a vital role in the ridding of Eastern Europe of communist oppression and won't admit it. My point about the Russian Orthodox hierarchy and its cosy relationship with the communists was intended to point out to you that the Orthodox Church also has skeletons in its own closet. You bitterly attack a man (JP II) who has fought all his life against godless atheism, while steadfastly ignoring Orthodox failings.

As for the links between the Vatican and Facism, they are not a lie.

They are a damnable lie. Period. This site (and others)has numerous articles about the hatred the Nazis had for Pius XII and his efforts to help the Jews. You're not interested. But then I thought that you had nothing against Catholics? You said in your previous rant that your only objection was "theological". Another contradiction.

Or did all those Utushies denounce the Catholic Church first? The very church that helped thousands of them escape to S. America.

I have little historical knowledge of what happened in Croatia/Serbia, so can't respond, other than to say that I know for a fact that many of the accusations against the holy Cardinal Stepinac were instigated by the Marxists.

The fact that the Hungarians and Spanish facists and nazies also had backing, often financial, from the Vatican is also an established fact.

Established by who? You? This is pure garbage. Do you know anything of the Spanish Civil War? The "republican" fighters were nothing more than Marxists who were backed by Stalin and leftists worldwide. They slaughtered thousands of Catholic clergy and faithful. The Pope recently beatified a large number of them. The Catholic Church was persecuted during this time.

Just like the one that Hitler was a Catholic. Maybe not one in good standing and rather evil...but it's funny that the Vatican is yet to excommunicate the mass murdering psychopath or for that matter, any of the Nazies. Makes one wonder about all those "tired lies".

It's at this point that I start to think I'm wasting bandwidth on an idiot. Hitler excommunicated himself. He ceased to practise (if he ever did) the Catholic faith. He cast himself out. Excommunication is reserved for those who attempt to remain in the bosom of the Church while flouting her rules. The Catholic Church does not officialy excommunicate every murderer who was baptized as a Catholic. Does yours?

As for asking for forgiveness, he has not appologized to the Orthodox...he made some vacumous noises about forgiveness for the sins of the Christians...using the term as generic.

The Pope has continually and steadfastly reached out to the Orthodox Church. His attempts have often been rebuffed such as the shameful behavior of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy on his recent visit to Greece.

And what about his apologies to the Musli and the kissing of the Koran while he hobnobbed with their Mufties? He even raised it to legitamicy during a UN conference. Unlike the West, we will never acknowledge that heresy/devil inspired faith for anything but what it really is, no matter the PC pressure.

The Pope's kissing of the Koran was intended as a gesture of respect. In the same way that he always kisses the ground when he visits another country. It is intended as a gesture of peace to all "men of goodwill", as he puts it, of which there assuredly are in all of these places and faiths. It does not imply approval of its contents.

32 posted on 10/26/2001 6:02:04 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Stavka2; The_Reader_David
I've been musing over what little I know about the orthodox church. Both the orthodox and the catholic seem to have, let me word this carefully, been in religious control of countries where anti semitism was rampant.

How do the orthodox relate to the Jews today?

I'm not trying to start an argument, just trying to settle quesitons in my own mind.

It is a shame that the catholic church can't backpeddle and annul doctrine developed post-1000 or so. I know a lot of catholics would have a fit and stomp and scream but I wouldn't have a particular problem with it. It will never happen. Too neat and tidy and purifying.

44 posted on 10/26/2001 8:21:18 PM PDT by Aliska
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