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To: Stavka2
First of all, yes the Church was neutered but you conspicously ignore how it was neutered: by the murder of tens of thousands of priests and monks. Or did they all all of the sudden give up their faiths and become good party members?

The Orthodox faith has indeed had many martyrs in the fight against communism. So has the Catholic Church. No one is claiming otherwise. However, you know that the Catholic Church played a vital role in the ridding of Eastern Europe of communist oppression and won't admit it. My point about the Russian Orthodox hierarchy and its cosy relationship with the communists was intended to point out to you that the Orthodox Church also has skeletons in its own closet. You bitterly attack a man (JP II) who has fought all his life against godless atheism, while steadfastly ignoring Orthodox failings.

As for the links between the Vatican and Facism, they are not a lie.

They are a damnable lie. Period. This site (and others)has numerous articles about the hatred the Nazis had for Pius XII and his efforts to help the Jews. You're not interested. But then I thought that you had nothing against Catholics? You said in your previous rant that your only objection was "theological". Another contradiction.

Or did all those Utushies denounce the Catholic Church first? The very church that helped thousands of them escape to S. America.

I have little historical knowledge of what happened in Croatia/Serbia, so can't respond, other than to say that I know for a fact that many of the accusations against the holy Cardinal Stepinac were instigated by the Marxists.

The fact that the Hungarians and Spanish facists and nazies also had backing, often financial, from the Vatican is also an established fact.

Established by who? You? This is pure garbage. Do you know anything of the Spanish Civil War? The "republican" fighters were nothing more than Marxists who were backed by Stalin and leftists worldwide. They slaughtered thousands of Catholic clergy and faithful. The Pope recently beatified a large number of them. The Catholic Church was persecuted during this time.

Just like the one that Hitler was a Catholic. Maybe not one in good standing and rather evil...but it's funny that the Vatican is yet to excommunicate the mass murdering psychopath or for that matter, any of the Nazies. Makes one wonder about all those "tired lies".

It's at this point that I start to think I'm wasting bandwidth on an idiot. Hitler excommunicated himself. He ceased to practise (if he ever did) the Catholic faith. He cast himself out. Excommunication is reserved for those who attempt to remain in the bosom of the Church while flouting her rules. The Catholic Church does not officialy excommunicate every murderer who was baptized as a Catholic. Does yours?

As for asking for forgiveness, he has not appologized to the Orthodox...he made some vacumous noises about forgiveness for the sins of the Christians...using the term as generic.

The Pope has continually and steadfastly reached out to the Orthodox Church. His attempts have often been rebuffed such as the shameful behavior of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy on his recent visit to Greece.

And what about his apologies to the Musli and the kissing of the Koran while he hobnobbed with their Mufties? He even raised it to legitamicy during a UN conference. Unlike the West, we will never acknowledge that heresy/devil inspired faith for anything but what it really is, no matter the PC pressure.

The Pope's kissing of the Koran was intended as a gesture of respect. In the same way that he always kisses the ground when he visits another country. It is intended as a gesture of peace to all "men of goodwill", as he puts it, of which there assuredly are in all of these places and faiths. It does not imply approval of its contents.

32 posted on 10/26/2001 6:02:04 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
I have little historical knowledge of what happened in Croatia/Serbia, so can't respond, other than to say that I know for a fact that many of the accusations against the holy Cardinal Stepinac were instigated by the Marxists.

Right there you have already proved how little you know of your own knowledge of WW2...Croatia, where Catholic bishops ran concentration camps. Here's a link for you to educate yourself on. You can easily do a search on google and get quite a few nice archieval photoes...like the one of the Bishop of Croatia sitting at his desk with a jar full of eye balls that he personally gouged out...really touching of a man of Christ.

Established by who? You? This is pure garbage. Do you know anything of the Spanish Civil War? The "republican" fighters were nothing more than Marxists who were backed by Stalin and leftists worldwide. They slaughtered thousands of Catholic clergy and faithful. The Pope recently beatified a large number of them. The Catholic Church was persecuted during this time.

Yes and Franco, the man backed by Hitler and Mussalini and anyone else who believed in their view...or were you also conspicously not aware of that fact? Of whole german brigades ("mercenaries") with Stuka dive bombers and Mark II tanks fighting along side the Spanish facists.

Here, educate yourself on Hitler and your Pope Pious XII, it'll be good for you. The Holocaust and the Catholic Church

Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocust

And here marshmallow brain...lets see who's the idiot, some quotes from Hitler about his religious views: waiting for your enlightenment.

You see, you can apologize and minse words all you like, but the fact of the matter, the Catholic Church, which had no troubles excommunicating tens of thousands of religous men who questioned it's power, has never taken up the issue of excommunicating Hitler or any of the Nazies....please, tell me again how he excommunicated himself...which only works when the Bull is dropped, like it was dropped on two thirds of Christiandom at the time of the Schism.

Just love this little tid bit of information from that last article:Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so." He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable Mien Kampf never appeared on the Index of Forbidden Books.

Or this quote, which is quite true and can even be seen in German made movies about the war, like Stalingrad..rent it some time, you might get enlightened. Hitler's Germany amalgamated state with church. Soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with the following: "Gott mit uns" (God is with us). His troops were often sprinkled with holy water by the priests. It was a real Christian country whose citizens were indoctrinated by both state and church to blindly follow all authority figures, political and ecclesiastical

Church laundering of Nazi monies at the end of the war

Hitler Aims Blow at "Godless" Movement A reprint from a new article from 1933.

Hope you enjoy my contribution to your education...remember..marshmallows melt to close to the fire.

33 posted on 10/26/2001 9:32:04 AM PDT by Stavka2
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To: marshmallow
The Pope has continually and steadfastly reached out to the Orthodox Church. His attempts have often been rebuffed such as the shameful behavior of the Greek Orthodox hierarchy on his recent visit to Greece.

But why??? Is it humble to force yourself on others when you are unwanted? Is it holy? What do you call it? I teach my children that this behavior is rude. Agreed on the shameful behavior of the monks.

58 posted on 10/27/2001 10:28:34 AM PDT by MarMema
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