Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

ROME-MOSCOW WATCH -The Secret of Fatima: More to Come?
Inside the Vatican ^ | 26 October 2001 | Inside the Vatican Staff

Posted on 10/28/2001 1:27:22 PM PST by father_elijah

Fatima Secret Still Not Fully Revealed?

Despite repeated official Vatican denials, the rumor that some aspect of the "Third Secret" of Fatima has still not been revealed continues to spread. Is it groundless, or could there be something to it?

***

ROME-MOSCOW WATCH
The Secret of Fatima: More to Come?

ROME -- News has just emerged that Sister Lucia dos Santos, the last surviving Fatima visionary, several weeks ago sent Pope John Paul II a letter reportedly warning him that his life is in danger.

According to Vatican sources, the letter, claiming that events spoken of in the "Third Secret" of Fatima had not yet occurred, was delivered sometime after September 11 to John Paul by the bishop emeritus of Fatima, Alberto Cosme do Amaral.

The Vatican has not confirmed publicly receipt of the letter.

One source for the story, which was reported on in the Italian press yesterday and today, is Italian priest Father Luigi Bianchi.

Bianchi claims to have met Sr. Lucia dos Santos last week at her cloistered Carmelite convent in Coimbra, Portugal. (She is not allowed to speak with anyone who has not received prior permission from the Vatican, so it is not immediately clear whether Bianchi received that approval, circumvented the need for it, or did not actually meet Sister Lucia as he maintains.)

"She told me she is very worried about the international situation," Don Bianchi told Italian journalist David Murgia. "She said we have entered a crucial time for the Church and for the world -- and that the only salvation is prayer."

The letter is said to contain this warning: "Soon there will be great upheaval and punishment." And it reportedly asks the Holy Father to pray because "your life is in danger."

The current bishop of Fatima, Serafim Ferreira de Sousa, when questioned by journalists, did not deny that Sr. Lucia had sent a letter to the Pope, but said "there are no letters from the seer that express fear for the life of the Pope."

Sources have also suggested that Sr. Lucia's letter encourages the Pope to fully reveal the Third Secret. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who presented the interpretation of the Third Secret on June 26, 2000, said yesterday that the recent rumours of a letter are only the continuation of, "an old polemic fed by certain people of dubious credibility," with the objective of "destabilizing the internal equilibrium of the Roman Curia and of troubling the people of God."

One of the people who seems to fit Cardinal Ratzinger's description, arguably, is a Canadian priest, Fr. Nicholas Gruner, head of the Fatima Center, who has been suspended “a divinis” by the Vatican. Fr. Gruner has long maintained that the "third secret" was not fully revealed by the Vatican and has publicly pressured Rome to release the full text.

Gruner claims that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is conducting a "campaign of mystification," revealing only parts of the secret. This "does not conform to the truth," Gruner says.

Regarding the life of the Pope, Don Bianchi is worried. "Lucia said that he is the target of the enemy, that his life is in danger and we need to pray for him," Bianchi said.

Sr. Lucia is reported to have also said to the Italian priest that the third secret has not yet been revealed in full.

In an interview with Murgia, Fr. Bianchi speculated on the possibility that the Vatican did not reveal the full secret "to avoid creating panic and anxiety in the population; to not scare them."

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and indeed John Paul II himself, have interpreted the assassination attempt on the Pope in 1981 as the realization of the warnings of the third secret.

But Don Bianchi says otherwise. "The message doesn't speak only about an attempt on the pontiff, but speaks of 'a white bishop who walks amongst the ruins and bodies of murdered men and women,'" Bianchi said. "This means that the Pope will have to suffer greatly, that some nations will disappear, that many people will die, that we must defend the West from becoming Islamicized. That is what is happening in these days."

Sr. Lucia, when asked by Fr. Bianchi what could be done to stop the terror that is increasing in the world, is said to have taken the rosary in her hand and said: "This is the only 'weapon' we have."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-120 next last

1 posted on 10/28/2001 1:27:22 PM PST by father_elijah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: *Catholic_list; patent
bump
2 posted on 10/28/2001 1:28:33 PM PST by father_elijah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Prayer should be the only weapon we really need. We should have faith in the authority we respect in our governments to do their duty in protecting us. That is biblical. Purely.
3 posted on 10/28/2001 1:41:03 PM PST by wastoute
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2sheep; Thinkin' Gal; Prodigal Daughter; TrueBeliever9
ping
4 posted on 10/28/2001 1:43:32 PM PST by JudyB1938
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
I would be very skeptical about anything that may be even remotely connected with Fr. Gruner, he's been on the lunatic fringe for some time. he's as much as called the Pope a liar on more than one ocassion.
5 posted on 10/28/2001 1:46:14 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah; Cap'n Crunch
...that we must defend the West from becoming Islamicized. That is what is happening in these days."

Amen.

6 posted on 10/28/2001 2:10:09 PM PST by pocat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
If Islamic terrorists whack the Pope, that would truly begin a Christian war against Islam.
7 posted on 10/28/2001 2:26:55 PM PST by etcetera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: etcetera
"If Islamic terrorists whack the Pope, that would truly begin a Christian war against Islam."

Interestingly, everything I've read over the years about this Pope would indicate he has an apocalyptic mindset. He doesn't expect to die naturally.

8 posted on 10/28/2001 2:33:59 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Maybe so, but on the whole I trust Cardinal Ratzinger. And I agree that Father Gruner is basically a cultist who is NOT to be trusted.

It wouldn't be surprising, or wrong, if the Pope kept part of the third secret to himself for prudential reasons; but Cardinal Ratzinger is very unlikely to have told an outright lie about it.

Aside from all that, the Pope is a prime target for terrorists. There's nothing wrong with a request to pray for him and for the world.

9 posted on 10/28/2001 2:34:06 PM PST by Cicero
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
This will probably get me kicked off the board or worse, but Ezekiel 3:14-21 is ringing in my ears.

See the Ten Commandments as revealed to Moses by God Exodus 20:3-17 in a non-Catholic (such as KJV) Bible. Take special note of the first and second commandments. Also Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book: and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Read Revelation 17. The woman is the one-world religion consisting of apostate churches, headed up by the False Prophet.

Please read the following WHAT ATTITUDE ARE GENUINE CHRISTIANS TO HAVE DURING THESE LAST DAYS? WHAT DOES JESUS EXPECT?

If you make it all the way to the end of the article without having a stroke, and want to know more, please see the two links at the bottom of the article.

For your own salvation, if you subscribe to the beliefs in the article you posted, please dispense with false worship, and strive to be like the two churches in Revelation 3 (Smyrna 8:11, and Philadelphia 7-13). I only tell you this out of love, for I would hate to see anyone who hopefully loves Jesus Christ foremost, be lost for bowing down to false idols, and who risks being deceived by the antichrist. If I am wrong, I hope someone will correct me. I have to go now, but you can flame away at my private e-mail!

God Bless all who read this, and may we all receive true discernment, courage, and strength for these times. I sincerely mean that.

10 posted on 10/28/2001 2:46:18 PM PST by Ethan_Allen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Thanks for the bump. The saga continues. I have to agree with the comments on this thread about Father Gruner. Long before I really knew anything about him some of his comments just defied reality. As to whether there is more to come on the secrets, that is possible. I really don't know, nor do I know how we could dare hope for the future if the Vatican is concealing these things.

patent

11 posted on 10/28/2001 2:50:16 PM PST by patent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
One more thing. Cuttingedge.org has a pretty good track record for what they print. However, I think they may be wrong on the pre-trib rapture, seeing how millions of Christian souls have already been lost in Sudan and elsewhere. I think the important thing is to get right with God, and try to be ready spiritually for whatever His plans for us are.
12 posted on 10/28/2001 2:54:09 PM PST by Ethan_Allen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ethan_Allen
Well, Ah reckon you're right, what with Pastor Billy Bob sayin so and such.
13 posted on 10/28/2001 2:55:30 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: etcetera
If Islamic terrorists whack the Pope, that would truly begin a Christian war against Islam.

A Muslim assassin shot the pope once, and nothing happened. Why do you think it will be different this time?

14 posted on 10/28/2001 2:55:37 PM PST by 537 Votes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
What are your thoughts on this?
15 posted on 10/28/2001 2:56:14 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 537 Votes
A Muslim assassin shot the pope once, and nothing happened. Why do you think it will be different this time? 9-11-01
16 posted on 10/28/2001 2:57:43 PM PST by onyx
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
The text of the Third Secret: "on July 13, 1917, and committed to paper by Sr. Lucia on January 3, 1944:

"I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.

"After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: 'Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: 'something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White 'we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God."

17 posted on 10/28/2001 3:02:47 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: etcetera
If Islamic terrorists whack the Pope, that would truly begin a Christian war against Islam.

There might be a Roman Catholic war against Islam, but that would not be a Christian war, at least according to the Bible.

2 Cor. 10:3&4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal...

Unless you mean by "war" that you are going to do more to try to convert them.

Hank

18 posted on 10/28/2001 3:03:47 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Hank Kerchief
Once again proving the truth of the old saying;

"Give an idiot a Bible..."

19 posted on 10/28/2001 3:06:12 PM PST by KJMorgan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: KJMorgan
Hey! Welcome, KJMorgan, I see you are new here! I too reside in the empire state. Glad to have you aboard. V's wife!
20 posted on 10/28/2001 3:06:42 PM PST by ventana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: KJMorgan
Uh Uh, no ad hominems KJ!
21 posted on 10/28/2001 3:07:49 PM PST by ventana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Since there is no symbol of Christianity bigger then the Pope it only makes sense that fanatical Muslims would love to kill him.
22 posted on 10/28/2001 3:14:05 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KJMorgan
"Give an idiot a Bible..."

Send me your address and I'll be glad to.

23 posted on 10/28/2001 3:21:19 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Ethan_Allen
See the Ten Commandments as revealed to Moses by God Exodus 20:3-17 in a non-Catholic (such as KJV) Bible.
Out of curiosity, why have you indicated that we are to look at a non-Catholic version? What is the difference between Catholic and Protestant versions relative to the 10 Commandments?
A comparison of the Ten Commandments in Catholic and Protestant Bibles
Verse KJV Douay Rheims (Catholic)
Exodus 20:2-3 2: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2 I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

4-5 4: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

5: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

4 Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me:

6-7 6: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain.

8 8: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 8 Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.
9-10 9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works.

10 But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.

11 11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it.
12 12: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.
13 13: Thou shalt not kill. 13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 14: Thou shalt not commit adultery. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 15: Thou shalt not steal. 15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 17: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house: neither shalt thou desire his wife, nor his servant, nor his handmaid, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is his.
Take special note of the first and second commandments.
Done. No Catholic worships Mary, so can you explain the point of this?
Also Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book: and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Have we added to the book of Revelation?
Read Revelation 17. The woman is the one-world religion consisting of apostate churches, headed up by the False Prophet.
Are you suggesting Mary is the woman of the one-world religion? Either way, reread Revelation 12:1-13. Especially verse 13. Who is the woman, and who here is persecuting her?
I only tell you this out of love, for I would hate to see anyone who hopefully loves Jesus Christ foremost, be lost for bowing down to false idols, and who risks being deceived by the antichrist.
Who is this antichrist?

God bless,

patent  +AMDG


24 posted on 10/28/2001 3:24:35 PM PST by patent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Does anyone know who Father Luigi Bianchi is.
25 posted on 10/28/2001 3:31:40 PM PST by fatima
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
I actually thought/hoped that this was going to be an interesting thread, and then it degenerated into the usual fundy Protestant attack on Catholics, with the corresponding Catholic rebuttals. Catholics, please, ignore these guys! If they want to get on a Catholic thread and attack us, fine, but let them rave away while we ignore their foaming at the mouth and go on with our discussion of whatever it was the original thread was all about. (Which, by the 5th or 6th fundamentalist attack/rebuttal exchange, is pretty darn well forgotten.)
26 posted on 10/28/2001 3:35:17 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ethan_Allen
The Sin Against the Holy Spirit of which the Lord spoke is to witness manifest holiness with one's own eyes, and to call it evil. Anyone who can look upon the manifest holiness of the Pope, of innumerable Catholic missionaries, of Catholic martyrs for the Faith, of the tens of millions of gentle, heroic nuns and priests through the centuries, and call it evil, "idolatry," "satanism," "whore of Babylon," etc., should tremble for the spiritural peril he is in.
27 posted on 10/28/2001 3:41:09 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Ethan_Allen
I think the important thing is to get right with God, and try to be ready spiritually for whatever His plans for us are.

Death and taxes
28 posted on 10/28/2001 3:44:03 PM PST by uncbob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: KJMorgan
It's worth noting that this Third Secret was supposed to have been made public in 1960. In light of that fact, I have no idea what this is all supposed to mean.

It is worth noting, however (and this just popped into my mind right now), that a period of 40 years has some significance in Scripture. The Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years before they were allowed to enter the Promised Land, and after the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ the Jews were given 40 years to repent before the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Great Temple in about 70 A.D.

Just something to think about. I have a hard time taking any of this seriously in light of the failures on the part of the Catholic hierarchy to be straight with people when they discuess these things.

29 posted on 10/28/2001 3:50:40 PM PST by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: onyx; patent
I came across this article almost by accident. (That I have internet access at all is something of a miracle.)

I know Sr. Luzia loves the Holy Father truly and perfectly. I know that she, her convent, and many other Carmels pray daily and repeatedly for the Holy Father's safety since the attempt on his life. I know dear Bishop Alberto Cosme do Amaral to be the perfect person to carry a letter from Sister to the Pope. I have confidence in Cardinal Ratzinger to safeguard the Church from excesses.

As far as the Third Secret is concerned I think Mother Angelica said it well when she observed that the Third Secret was being revealed appropriately. From the way she said it one could take her to mean that the Third Secret had been faithfully revealed -- and yet there could be more to it.

Apart from the Fatima Secrets and other possible correspondence from Sister Lucia, we know that a host of people have wanted to harm our Pope. We all know well Ali Agca's attempt on his life. We also know that plots to kill the Holy Father and blow up St. Peter's have been foiled several times.

All signs point to Libyan elements of Al-Qaeda or related terrorist cells having been given the green light to begin bringing terror to Italy, destruction to the Vatican, and death to Pope John Paul II. (Libyan aircraft have been violating Italian air space time and again in what appears to be a test of radar and defense preparedness.) Against this Evil I pray with everything within me.

Clearly since 9/11 we should pray for many, many things not least of which is praying for the Pope's health, safety, and life. I also pray for a breakthrough so he may travel very soon to Moscow.

Let's not forget that the Catholic Church continues to exist in north Africa though besieged and oppressed. Among the faithful from Egypt through Libya and into Algeria are some of the bravest Christians you could ever meet. Not one of them will let anything happen to our Pope if they can do something to stop it.

30 posted on 10/28/2001 3:57:05 PM PST by father_elijah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
Pope to fully reveal the Third Secret.

The third secret is the world is about to end and Jesus is about to come back. They don't want to tell us, because average person will not be able to handle turmoil.

31 posted on 10/28/2001 3:58:56 PM PST by KQQL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: livius
go on with our discussion of whatever it was the original thread was all about

I'll try. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church at 67, the role of private revelation is not "to improve or complete Christ's definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history." Therefore it might be helpful to know 'the rest of the story', but it appears it's not necessary.

32 posted on 10/28/2001 4:01:20 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: patent
"No Catholic worships Mary"

A CATHOLIC WORSHIPING MARY

33 posted on 10/28/2001 4:08:17 PM PST by america76
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: patent
I really don't know, nor do I know how we could dare hope for the future if the Vatican is concealing these things.

We have to bear in mind that there are also other seers and other prophecies and messages that may guide and direct what is done or not done.

34 posted on 10/28/2001 4:08:39 PM PST by father_elijah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Arthur McGowan
The Sin Against the Holy Spirit of which the Lord spoke is to witness manifest holiness with one's own eyes, and to call it evil. Anyone who can look upon the manifest holiness of the Pope, of innumerable Catholic missionaries, of Catholic martyrs for the Faith, of the tens of millions of gentle, heroic nuns and priests through the centuries, and call it evil, "idolatry," "satanism," "whore of Babylon," etc., should tremble for the spiritural peril he is in.

I think there are three mistakes here, and they may or may not be serious, but are worth considering.

The first is the supposition that "holiness" is something manifest, in the sense it is obvious, or can be seen. Acutally, holiness, in people, is a matter of the heart and is quite invisible, and many Scriptures indicate that what appears to be holy, can be very deceptive.

The second is the interpretation of the unpardonable sin in the passage where Jesus says, (Mat. 12:31) "Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men," follows the casting a devil out of a blind dumb man who immediately was able to see and speak. This was an obvious demonstration of Divine power (the power of the Holy Spirit) which the Pharisees attributed to the devil. This was the unpardonable sin, attibuting the power of God to Satan.

Finally, even if all the example you gave as obvious demonstrations of holiness are true, it is not individuals that those who believe the Catholic Church is the church of the Anti-christ refer to, but the religious structure or organization. Oviously, that means some individuals in that organization must also be "evil" (and certainly there have been some who were in evil in the church in the past).

Whatever one's view, if they really believe their version of Christianity, (or any other religion) is correct, they must, if logically clear in their thinking, believe other religions and denominations are partly or completely heretical.

Only some religions believe this is license to kill the heretics, and no variety of Christianity beleives that. Nevertheless, those who believe strongly, will argue strongly. I think that's good, especially when they are arguing against me.

Hank

35 posted on 10/28/2001 4:13:36 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: patent
patent, I guess when I've asked you to pray for me I must unwittingly have been worshipping you -- or so some would have us believe.

My bad.

36 posted on 10/28/2001 4:13:36 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: 537 Votes
Yes, Mehmet Ali Ajca, a Muslim, shot the Pope and no religious war ensued. But at the time, it wasn't viewed by most people as a religious hit, just the action of a crazy. If it happens today at the hands of Muslim extremists, the way the world is now with all the talk of a war against Islam, it will be seen in a different light.
37 posted on 10/28/2001 4:16:56 PM PST by etcetera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Hank Kerchief
Acutally, holiness, in people, is a matter of the heart and is quite invisible

When Peter spoke of "the Holy One and the Just" [Acts 3:14], had Peter not already seen Jesus in person?

40 posted on 10/28/2001 4:19:08 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: WileyCoyote22
My, my, aren't you the open-minded one tonight.
41 posted on 10/28/2001 4:20:21 PM PST by Fred Mertz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: KJMorgan
Father Grunner is mentally unbalanced. He is a classic example of a conspiracy theorist. He sees himself as the last lonely crusader for the preservation of the true church. He has gone beyond extreme with his fixation on the Fatima letter. The Fatima Letter is WAY down on the list of Catholic priorites.

Then there is Cardinal Ratzinger. He is the pope's right hand man. There simply could not be a more stable, wise and trustworthy Catholic leader. When he says something you can trust it. So whatever Grunner says should be tested against what Ratzinger says and Ratzinger should be heeded not Grunner.

42 posted on 10/28/2001 4:24:43 PM PST by Theresa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
patent, I guess when I've asked you to pray for me I must unwittingly have been worshipping you -- or so some would have us believe.

Or, better yet, when you prayed to Patent asking him to pray for you... considering that the definition of "to pray" is "to entreat; to implore"... ;)

43 posted on 10/28/2001 4:27:18 PM PST by MWS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: father_elijah
"She told me she is very worried about the international situation," Don Bianchi told Italian journalist David Murgia. "She said we have entered a crucial time for the Church and for the world -- and that the only salvation is prayer."

Wow.. hey I must be a visionary too.. I KNOW we are in a crucial time for the world.. geez.. who'd have know?

44 posted on 10/28/2001 4:28:18 PM PST by Zipporah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
I said, "Acutally, holiness, in people, is a matter of the heart and is quite invisible..."

You siad, "When Peter spoke of 'the Holy One and the Just' [Acts 3:14], had Peter not already seen Jesus in person?"

Yes. But what is your point? Are you implying that Peter saw Jesus' Holiness? Nothing like that is stated anywhere. Jesus is the Holy One and Just, and that is Who Peter saw. Nothing more.

Hank

45 posted on 10/28/2001 4:35:41 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: MWS
I pray thee, desist from thine efforts to reason with these benighted souls!

Oops, there I go again . . . .

46 posted on 10/28/2001 4:38:26 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Ethan_Allen
The use of the letter to the Ekklasia at Corinth chastising them for not rebuking a man for violating a statute of Torah is enlightening. This specific statute was part of the instructions given by YHVH that most christian churches believe was done away with. This is one of many chapters in the apostolic writings which refute that error.
47 posted on 10/28/2001 4:54:05 PM PST by hsszionist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Hank Kerchief; Arthur McGowan
Hank Kerchief, your post to which I was replying was itself a reply to Arthur McGowan's expression

witness manifest holiness with one's own eyes.

That Peter spoke of the Holy One and the Just, Whom Peter had seen, is entirely consistent with the notion that Peter had witnessed [Jesus'] manifest holiness with his own eyes.

48 posted on 10/28/2001 4:55:25 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: aposiopetic
That Peter spoke of the Holy One and the Just, Whom Peter had seen, is entirely consistent with the notion that Peter had witnessed [Jesus'] manifest holiness with his own eyes.

I see. Then you can tell me what holiness looks like. Please do.

Hank

49 posted on 10/28/2001 4:59:53 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: Hank Kerchief
Then you can tell me what holiness looks like. Please do.

I don't have to.

Peter saw Jesus. Peter later called Jesus the Holy One. From this I conclude that Jesus' holiness was manifest [recall that Arthur McGowan's term was manifest holiness] to Peter. Certainly Jesus' holiness was not hidden from Peter, nor was Peter indifferent to or unaware of Jesus' holiness.

You remain free to reach a different conclusion, though I really can't understand why you would do so.

If you wish to continue this discussion, please FReepmail me. I may well have erred by diverting the thread. If so, I ask the forgiveness of all.

50 posted on 10/28/2001 5:16:50 PM PST by aposiopetic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson