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Jew who loses security clearance blames anti-Semitism in the military
JTA Online ^ | Oct. 29, 2001 | Sharon Samber

Posted on 10/30/2001 10:44:50 AM PST by AshleyMontagu

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Where's Foxman and the ADL? This is an outrage bordering on biblical proportions.
1 posted on 10/30/2001 10:44:50 AM PST by AshleyMontagu
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To: AshleyMontagu
This guy's complaints are indeed ridiculous. No other country in the world permits its citizens to belong to another country's army.

Anti-Semitism? Try common sense.

2 posted on 10/30/2001 10:47:45 AM PST by wideawake
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To: AshleyMontagu
Or there could be elements missing from the story? IMO, that's the more likely scenario than an arbitrary loss of clearance because he's Jewish. Oy!
3 posted on 10/30/2001 10:47:49 AM PST by mgc1122
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To: AshleyMontagu
Here we go again. 100 posts at least.
4 posted on 10/30/2001 10:49:11 AM PST by richwolo
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To: AshleyMontagu
This is old news. Haven't you posted arabist stuff in the past?
5 posted on 10/30/2001 10:51:16 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: AshleyMontagu
Jew who loses lottery ticket blames anti-Semitism in the lottery.

Jew who loses voting ballot blames anti-Semitism in the elections.

Jew who loses suntan blames anti-Semitism in the sun.

Jew who loses airplane seat blames anti-Semitism in the airline.

Unfortunately, now and then a Jew is found to be a Sore Loserman.

Funny thing is, though, if you read a number of the conservative articles written, which are posted to Free Republic, you'll find that some are written by Jews who do not feel the need to inhale and then exhale - and - remind - everyone - of - their - ethnicity.

In fact, they're so good at not blaming other people, you wouldn't know that they're conservative, or should I say Jewish ... whatever.

6 posted on 10/30/2001 10:52:46 AM PST by First_Salute
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: sheik yerbouty
This is old news.

Should we ignore all news that is over a day old? This forum would get pretty boring.

Haven't you posted arabist stuff in the past?

'arabist stuff'? What the heck is that? If you think I have posted 'arabist stuff' just do a search and show everyone. Good luck.

8 posted on 10/30/2001 10:56:36 AM PST by AshleyMontagu
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To: sheik yerbouty; verb
You get the door prize for Freeper Name of the Month.
9 posted on 10/30/2001 10:56:41 AM PST by First_Salute
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To: AshleyMontagu
A reservist?

A dual-citizen?

What a maroon.

10 posted on 10/30/2001 10:59:28 AM PST by NativeNewYorker
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To: First_Salute
Yep, it is funny how those who ridicule minority groups for always crying 'racism' are the first to play the 'anti-Semite' card from the bottom of the deck whenever things don't go their way. A culture of victimhood is ugly no matter who wallows in it.
11 posted on 10/30/2001 11:00:12 AM PST by AshleyMontagu
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To: AshleyMontagu
"Jewish sensitivity to accusations of dual loyalty has increased since the infamous case of Jonathan Pollard."

Heres the problem. There is no such creature as "dual loyalty".

12 posted on 10/30/2001 11:00:41 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: gnarledmaw
Dual-citizenship but not dual-loyalty to go with it? That doesn't make sense.
13 posted on 10/30/2001 11:03:12 AM PST by Dakmar
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To: wideawake
This guy's complaints are indeed ridiculous. No other country in the world permits its citizens to belong to another country's army.

While the U.S. does allow non-U.S. citizens into our military, what is bothersome about this story is that a person with so-called dual citizenship even had a security clearance in the first place. The U.S., to my knowledge, does not recognize "dual citizenship". If you can't renounce one citizenship or the other, then your loyalties are divided. I would apply that to anyone who has U.S. citizenship without formally renouncing their old citizenship status, because the oath of citizenship requires you to renounce allegiance to all other countries. People who maintain dual U.S. (insert other country here) citizenship have broken their U.S. citizenship oath, so should not get security clearance to begin with, in my opinion. I don't care what the other country is.

14 posted on 10/30/2001 11:04:34 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: First_Salute
Many thanks.
15 posted on 10/30/2001 11:05:05 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: AshleyMontagu
A loyalty issue millions of our "American" citizens have.
16 posted on 10/30/2001 11:09:24 AM PST by gohabsgo
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To: wimpycat
Doesn't stop them from voting in US elections.
17 posted on 10/30/2001 11:14:08 AM PST by Patria One
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To: Dakmar
See #14.
18 posted on 10/30/2001 11:14:18 AM PST by gnarledmaw
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To: Dakmar
The Oath of Citizenship

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.

While I realize that the guy in question was born in the U.S., the principle remains the same. In fact, it's even worse to accept citizenship in another country if you're already American, as far as I'm concerned. You can't be a U.S. citizen AND a citizen of another country, and expect everyone to believe that all your loyalty is for the U.S. And anyone not TOTALLY loyal to the U.S. should not be trusted with U.S. secrets.

19 posted on 10/30/2001 11:15:15 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: veronica; Sabramerican; AshleyMontagu
No underlying animosity with Ash....

Ashley, Please flag me if you ever post something that isn't negative toward Jews.

20 posted on 10/30/2001 11:15:46 AM PST by JMJ333
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To: sheik yerbouty
Nothing is open in Raleigh, NC on Sundays until 1:00 PM...My brother in law insisted it was Anti-Semetic!!
21 posted on 10/30/2001 11:16:13 AM PST by Ann Archy
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To: AshleyMontagu
This is an outrage bordering on biblical proportions.

Without a doubt. There are Islamic terrorists loose trying to murder millions of American and Israelis and you would provide them aid and comfort because of your evil hatred for Israel. You still don't understand why President Bush calls him the evil one.

22 posted on 10/30/2001 11:17:31 AM PST by a_witness
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To: AshleyMontagu
I heard a caller to G. Gordon Liddy today reset this....

Who was it? 'Fess up, FReepers...

23 posted on 10/30/2001 3:30:28 PM PST by The Drowning Witch
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To: wimpycat
WOW. You really get educated on FreeRepublic.

Oh, not that anything you wrote was true but I learned that even those without a clue can write with seeming authority.

Cases

Law

24 posted on 10/30/2001 3:31:50 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Ann Archy
LOL. Guess he never heard of Blue Laws.
25 posted on 10/30/2001 3:33:22 PM PST by Patria One
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To: JMJ333
I don't know why this guy lost his clearance after many years. He certainly did not hide his background.

But that was all already discussed here.

Guess what, Ashley was there, at #99, so he must have had a very good reason for posting this again.

I will continue with a rebuttable presumption that this is officer is great guy. We have no draft. He choose to serve the US. Something usually considered meritorious on FreeRebublic.

26 posted on 10/30/2001 3:42:11 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Ann Archy
My guess is that even after 1PM you would still be unable to buy a sense of humor.
27 posted on 10/30/2001 3:47:02 PM PST by Sabramerican
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: Sabramerican
Where you see typos. Imagine them fixed.
30 posted on 10/30/2001 3:49:10 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: AshleyMontagu
Seeing as how you like posting this stuff, I believe there should still be some great research on the Rosenberg trial. I think you should post that too.
31 posted on 10/30/2001 3:51:45 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Nachum
Why don't you post info on the Rosenberg trial since you brought it up?
32 posted on 10/30/2001 3:54:48 PM PST by Patria One
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To: Patria One
Astonished. The Rosenbergs are so yesterday.

Lets discuss contemporary evil, what they teach in Saudi Arabia.

33 posted on 10/30/2001 4:00:17 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Sabramerican
This post is nothing more than an opportunity for the people who hate Jews to crawl out of the woodwork. Never a missed opportunity...
34 posted on 10/30/2001 4:06:21 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: AshleyMontagu
You know, you could just go by the deli and jostle old Jewish ladies until they dropped their knishes.

That would show them!

35 posted on 10/30/2001 4:07:04 PM PST by headsonpikes
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: AshleyMontagu
Okay. So this guy Pine is a goofball and a crybaby, and probably another Jonathan Pollard.
But the article doesn't say anything about what he is going to do about his loss of "security clearance",
although an attorney, Neal Sher, is mentioned. Is he going to sue the Army? Or just keep whining?
One thing is for sure, he seems a little too concerned about having security clearance.

Hmmmm.... Does anybody think Israel would give this puke security clearance? Sure they would. No problem. Right.

38 posted on 10/30/2001 4:40:33 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
and probably another Jonathan Pollard.
"probably" was supposed to be "possibly". Sorry.
39 posted on 10/30/2001 4:44:09 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: gjdgjd
Give me a break. I see the gang is all here...you, patria one, ashley...all that's missing is Bassam_Abu_Sharrif and Kudzu Flat.
40 posted on 10/30/2001 4:56:11 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: Ann Archy
They are the remnants of "blue laws". I don't think that their intent was anti semitic, but used as a prod to make reluctant parishioners go to church. I don't think we should have "blue laws".
41 posted on 10/30/2001 4:57:20 PM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: Sabramerican
Oh, not that anything you wrote was true but I learned that even those without a clue can write with seeming authority.

And how can you honestly, praytell, accuse me of being a liar? I believe the only fact I may have been unsure about was whether or not the U.S. allows for dual citizenship, and I therefore qualified my remark by saying "to my knowledge". The rest of my post was my own opinion about those with dual citizenship, which makes no special allowances for Americans who also hold Israeli citizenship. Thanks for the links, which I gave a quick perusal, but I have no need to become an expert on immigration and naturalization law. It doesn't change my opinion, which is that, especially when it comes to military secrets, people who have accepted another country's citizenship status, for whatever reason, are a security risk. The Army reserves has made the right decision. It's just scary that it was ever allowed in the first place.

Jeez, you are hypersensitive! I'm no Israel basher, but I'm also not going to wrap it up in cotton and treat it with kid gloves, either. So, to reiterate my opinion, no one with dual citizenship should ever get a security clearance. If it would make you feel any better, I would feel the same about any American who also claimed British, Canadian, Irish or Australian citizenship. It's not all about Israel, you know. But even so, the old Jerry-Seinfeld's-uncle "you're an anti-semite" accusation is a bit whiny and way out of line in this guy's case.

42 posted on 10/30/2001 5:13:43 PM PST by wimpycat
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To: wimpycat
I didn't call you a liar. I wrote that you were writing with purported knowledge of things of which you had no knowledge.

"To my knowledge" is not the same as "in my opinion"

By the way, as to your opinion: you are also wrong. I am a dual national. Do you think if in order to serve the US I was forced to renounce my Israeli citizenship, I would be any less pro-Israel. Would you deny the US my services if they were needed. Pollard was not a dual citizen. Neither was Hansen.

Do you know that it is virtually impossible for an Israeli to renounce Israeli citizenship if one has any intention of ever again visiting Israel.

The honestly and loyalty of a dual citizen has nothing to do with their citizenship, but with the person- as it would be with a person with sole citizenship.

43 posted on 10/30/2001 5:32:50 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: Sabramerican
Let me add and anticipate something you may consider. What happens when/if there is a conflict? It again goes to honesty.

All sorts of people, particularly in the Judiciary, encounter conflicts of interests every day. Honest people recuse themselves from those particular issues.

There is nothing that says that where this officer rendered valuable service to the United States for many years any of it had anything to do with Israel.

44 posted on 10/30/2001 5:41:14 PM PST by Sabramerican
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To: AshleyMontagu
It's not only old news, but the same exact article was posted twice previously from different sources.

Some of your buddies beat you to it. Yawn

45 posted on 10/30/2001 5:53:10 PM PST by vrwc54
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To: wimpycat
People who maintain dual U.S. (insert other country here) citizenship have broken their U.S. citizenship oath, so should not get security clearance to begin with, in my opinion.
As a native born US citizen, I have never taken a citizenship oath. Yet when I was younger my mother applied for and got me and my brothers Irish Citizenship, by virtue of my grandparents being Irish immigrants. It was automatic for my mother. I held an Irish passport for a number of years.
I just had to give it up to get a position with a Navy weapon lab that required a security clearance. They called and informed me that I had to give it up, and I promptly went down to the Irish Embassy(I live in DC), turned in my passport and turned over a statement asking them to remove my citizenship. Any US citizen with access to sensitive information should have no other loyalties. I am suprised that it is only now that they are placing that requirement on their employees. If you feel that this is unfair or places you in an uncomfortable position, then you should not be working in that position.
46 posted on 10/30/2001 6:44:48 PM PST by danielobvt
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To: The Documentary Lady
So now he has evil hatred for Israel because he's pointing out the outrageous behavior of the Israel-first crowd?

I think you have the cart before the horse. The adversary of Israel is that very evil one that our president keeps referring to. All who hate Israel shall perish when the Messiah comes.

47 posted on 10/30/2001 7:11:07 PM PST by a_witness
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To: Sabramerican
Lets discuss contemporary evil, what they teach in Saudi Arabia.

Shhh, all those patriots in the kingdom trading riyals for dollars care not a wit about what happens to our nation. They just want to be paid off.

48 posted on 10/30/2001 7:15:58 PM PST by a_witness
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To: Patria One
Because I am not the one posting old news over and over again.

That's why

49 posted on 10/30/2001 7:17:01 PM PST by Nachum
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To: Sabramerican
But that was all already discussed here.

Guess what, Ashley was there, at #99, so he must have had a very good reason for posting this again.

Good find!

50 posted on 10/30/2001 7:17:50 PM PST by onyx
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