Brain's one-card trick yields superior lie test

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-2001391825,00.html ^

[governsleastgovernsbest]

PATTERNS of brain activity that betray whether a person is lying have been identified, paving the way for brain scans in criminal investigations.

Scientists in the United States have discovered that several parts of the brain behave in distinctive fashion during attempts to conceal the truth and that this signature of deceit can be picked up by magnetic resonance scans.

The findings, by researchers at the University of Pennsylvania, suggest that the technique could be used as a sophisticated lie detector, much more accurate than today’s polygraph tests. The polygraph machine, which monitors breathing rate, pulse, blood pressure and perspiration for signs of nervousness, has been available for 80 years and is used in the US, particularly in espionage cases and by employers wishing to check job applicants’ honesty.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

I'd bet that Bill Clinton's lies could not be detected even by this sophisticated system. I'm convinced that he lacks the gene for feelings of remorse, compunction or guilt found in normal humans.

[Free the USA]

Interesting, guilt might not matter if the brain functions slightly differently when connecting to the truth and when avoiding the truth.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Not sure I follow. Could you amplify?

[jiggity]

So how about thinking about lying as you answer truthfully? I'm sure I can convince myself that I am lying about something as I as give truthful answers. Then it would appear as though I am lying about everything, even in those instances where I told the truth. Possible, you think?

[Free the USA]

An MRI measures Brain wave activity. From it you can tell which neurons are making connections. In order to form a thought you need to make many connections. If the neuron connections made while creating a lie are different from the neuron connections made remembering the truth you might be able to chart the patterns and see the difference. If someone feels guilty or not may be irrelevant to the brain patterns produced.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Oh, I see the point. Still think Clinton would pass. I truly don't think he is even aware of lying. Whatever suits his short term interest becomes his truth.

[appeal2]

For people like Clinton there is no truth so there can't possible be any lies. There is no reality, just whatever they say and Clinton believes everything he says is the truth. Just like with a polygraph, it is extremely hard to detect pathological liars.

[Free the USA]

You may be right if instead of making connections to something remembered Clinton always creates his own reality and then repeats it.

[Southack]

So if i'm lying about lying, does that mean that i'm truthfully lying?!

[HiTech RedNeck]

Couldn't reach the link.

It appears that polygraphs as we know them today are junk science, a game to elicit confessions from the naive guilty. Someone who truly purposes to beat them, almost invariably can.

As for this test... who knows? I would wonder how the lies and truths were set up in the lab. By the orders of a researcher? This qualitatively differs from choosing to lie, or choosing a delusion.

[KC_Conspirator]

Klinton's lies were easy to detect. I mean, honestly, we all knew he was lying and all we had to do is see him open his mouth.

In seriousness, one way that invetigators are trained to detect lies are to observe the person in question and see if they show signs of distress in their face. The best indicator is the forehead and brow area. A furled brow indicates that the candidatye is lying. Researchers in fact have taken a look at the tape of Klinton's legacy saying "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" and its clear that his forehead crumples in a huge sign of distress.

[Samwise]

Isn't it interesting that whenever anyone mentions the word "lie," people immediately associate to Clinton? Hmmm...wonder why that is.

[Nick Danger]

guilt might not matter if the brain functions slightly differently when connecting to the truth and when avoiding the truth.

A little piece of research I tripped over one day suggests that the brain stores all memories as if they were true, and then marks the false ones with a separate "this memory is false" tag.

One outcome of the research was that the 'false' tags deteriorate over time. A newspaper headline that reads "Joe Blow Not Guilty of Murder" will be correctly recalled by most people for about six months. After that, things go downhill for Joe. After two years, all most people can remember is that Joe Blow had something to do with a murder. The "false" tags get lost or separated from the memories.

It may be the case that the "false" tags are stored centrally, in a different area of the brain from the main memories. They might also be formed automatically, such that the MRI picks up the creation and storage of a "false" tag while the false words are coming out of Clinton's (or some other liar's) mouth.

Interesting science, but more damned evidence that I was fortunate to have been born at the right time. I got to play with all the computer stuff, but I'll be leaving about the time the nanite weapons, the genetically-engineered flying people, and lie detectors that actually work arrive on the scene.

Will I still respect you in the morning? You bet.

WHOOP! WHOOP! BUZZZZZ! WAAANNNG! WAAANNNG! WHOOP!

[alcuin]

WHOOP! WHOOP! BUZZZZZ! WAAANNNG! WAAANNNG! WHOOP!

Little Richard?

[Free the USA]

Interesting, I still wonder if deliberately concocting a lie uses different parts of the brain than either correctly or incorrectly remembering an event.

[Nick Danger]

I still wonder if deliberately concocting a lie uses different parts of the brain than either correctly or incorrectly remembering an event.

I'd bet money that it does. The more difficult trick is to detect the remembrance and delivery of a previously concocted lie. The really good public liars, like Clinton, practice their lies in front of a mirror before they go on TV and say something like "I did not have sex with that woman." In fact I think we read that Clinton had rehearsed that performance the night before, with Harry Thomases, the media guru who was coaching him.

[Free the USA]

I think you might be on to something. If you are simply remembering a script the brain patterns would probably be similar whether the script related to real or fake events.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

bump