Police arrest parade participate for displaying Confederate Battle flag

al.com ^ | 11/12/01 | ap

[shuckmaster]

MOBILE, Ala. (AP) -- Police arrested a man Monday who defied city leaders by displaying a Confederate Battle Flag during Mobile's Veterans Day Parade.

Tim Meadows, a member of a local Sons of Confederate Veterans group, was charged with interfering with a public event. He was later released from Mobile's jail after posting bond.

City officials didn't want the flag allowed at the parade because it would distract from the purpose of honoring veterans, said Public Safety Director Dick Cashdollar.

Other Confederate flags were allowed, but not the Battle Flag because it has been a divisive symbol, Cashdollar said. Extra police officers were on duty to monitor the parade.

During the parade, Battle Flag supporter Reggie Phillips said the city was violating free speech rights by banning the flag.

[shuckmaster]

Aw, Shucks!

[shuckmaster]

ping

[anniegetyourgun]

Just as they were comin' for him, he shoulda lit that sucker on fire. Then they'd have to "respect his free speech rights."

[JMJ333]

City officials didn't want the flag allowed at the parade because it would distract from the purpose of honoring veterans, said Public Safety Director Dick Cashdollar.

I guess the memory of southern veterens from the WONA don't count. Kind of makes me sick to my stomach.

[CoolGuyVic]

Oher Confederate flags were allowed, but not the Battle Flag because it has been a divisive symbol, Cashdollar said.

WTF?

We've devolved into a nation of symbolism.

[Faithfull]

Well at least there was one brave man in the parade. Makes me wonder where the other 'men' were?

[ChemistCat]

Ja wohl.

[Tom Pain]

What happened to our blessed "DIVERSITY"!?!

[Native American Female Vet]

"Other Confederate flags were allowed"

Sorry, I feel silly asking but, what is the diffrence in flags?

[concerned about politics]

We've devolved into a nation of symbolism.

The hammer and sickle would have been applauded by democrats in the audiance, but gee, don't carry a flag that represents any type of freedom. It's too politically incorrect and may offend some.

[Tom Pain]

If the US Supreme Court says that burning the American Flag is Free Speech, then how can displaying ANY flag be a crime?!?

[VietVet]

"Other confederate flags were allowed, but not the Battle Flag..."

Now this does not make much sense. One could make a case for disallowing National Flags of the Confederate States of America at a parade on a National Holiday, since they were symbols of a government which attempted to seceed from that Nation, but the Battle Flag? That is primarily a symbol of the Army of the Confederate States (and especially of the Army of Northern Virginia), and those men were veterans. Not a few of them were even veterans of the US Army, both prior and subsequent to the Late Unpleasantness. It seems to me that the Confederate Battle Flag would be more acceptable at a Veterans Day Parade than a Confederate States National flag, not less.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

Thank God he wasn't praying while carrying the flag. He may have never gotten out of jail.

[JMJ333]

Veterens and heros.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

BUMP!

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Thank God he wasn't praying while carrying the flag. He may have never gotten out of jail.

And imagine if he were carrying a period piece, if you know what I mean...

[No Truce With Kings]

Other Confederate flags were allowed, but not the Battle Flag because it has been a divisive symbol. . .

Boy, somebody in Mobile city government really checked his brain at the door.

The Confederate battle flag was adopted as the symbol for Confederate veterans' groups precisely because it was never an offical National Ensign of the Confederate States of America. The vets rightly felt that to use the Stars and Bars, Stainless Banner, or other CSA national ensigns would be to use a flag that had been a standard of rebellion against the United States -- which they were now part of (admittedly, some reluctantly, but they still considered themselves as United States citizens). So they used the battle ensign, because it had not been a national ensign, but was a flag that they fought under.

In other words, it was used because it was a military -- not a political -- symbol. It was non-partisan.

Now some mush-for-brains in Mobile decides that flying a symbol of political rebellion is acceptable in a Veteran's Day parade, but the military symbol -- adopted by Confederate veterans -- is symbolic of treason.

What do they teach in public schools in Alabama? Certainly not logic.

[rockfish59]

WE........ARE.........THE..........PC............POLICE!
YOU..........MUST...........BE.............ARRESTED......FOR
DISPLAYING..........THIS.................FLAG..............BY
..............ORDER..........OF..............JANET..................RENO!

buncha rotten, commie ba$tard$!

[Reagan is King]

Unbelievable! So much for free speech.

[JMJ333]

Hmmm...I guess next it will be against the law to do re-enactments also...

[Fiddlstix]

May I Say.......
I Am Sick of this SH*T
I have one Great-Great-Grandfather who Fought for the South.
I have one Great-Great-Grandfather who fought for the North.
I HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT To HONOR BOTH BANNERS!
(There Is No Cop that has the Right to Prevent me from doing it!)
As I Said..... I Am Sick and Tried of This CRAP!
I SHALL HONOR Both Sides of MY FAMILY.....
Screw Them!
They Were BOTH "REAL AMERICANS"!

[shuckmaster]

Here's a more detailed write up on this travesty.

[Britton J Wingfield]

I'll be very suprised if this survives the courts.

[babyfreep]

Free speech is absolutely dead.

That is, unless you are a "progressive" artist displaying something like ceramic penises in a public library or the Holy Cross in a jar of urine.

[JMJ333]

Are they so stupid that they don't realize its just a battle flag, and that it didn't fly over any slavery?

[Arkinsaw]

Sorry, I feel silly asking but, what is the diffrence in flags?

Don't feel silly. The Battle Flag is the soldiers flag, the other flags were the political flags of the Confederacy. The Battle Flag is actually the flag of the veterans. Its been used and abused by hate groups, but the only one's who have an actual claim to it are the men who carried it across a battlefield in 1861-65.

[Fixit]

Quoted from linked article.

A Capt. Kennedy of the Mobile police department, who was present at the incident, said he was reluctant to arrest Meadows but stated he was acting "under direct orders" from the mayor.

Wow, who knew? Denying someone their civil rights is A-OK if
you do it under Direct Orders From the leader Mayor.

</sarcasm>

[4CJ]

What a joke. I'm sure the ACLU will be flying in to defend his Constitutional rights to free speech, right?

Right?

Hellllooooooo .....

[FateAmenableToChange]

Sorry, I feel silly asking but, what is the diffrence in flags?

I'm not sure, but they're probably talking about the confederate "national" flag that supposedly looked a lot like the union flag. they might also have been talking about Mississippi's bonnie blue, both of which have been put forward as "less divisive" than the well-known battle flag.

[Texas Yellow Rose]

MAY I SAY THAT I AGREE WITH YOU 100%

[bluecollarman]

There were a lot of different flags. If you go to the Aw Shucks and look on the left hand side you will see a link to the "Flags of the Confederacy"

[Hillary 666]

Public Safety Director Dick Cashdollar

That name's just a tad ironic for a public official.

[Red Jones]

'Real Americans' are people like you and myself who honor both those who fought for the north and for the south. Abraham Lincoln encouraged this ethic, this is the ethic we used to have as a nation. However, very sadly I've learned that in schools today they indoctrinate the kids to disrespect the southern warriors. The old ethic was good, I don't accept this new ethic of hatred that is being encouraged.

Kids are literally being taught in schools to disrespect the South because slavery was legal there until after the civil war. Well, history tells us that slavery was legal in all the northern states until about 1820. The economy in the south was different, but slavery was becoming uneconomical at the time of the war, with a little time the southerners would've banned it like the northerners did. But our children are being taught that one group is good and one group is bad because of the different time schedule on outlawing slavery.

[FReepaholic]

>>...I have one Great-Great-Grandfather who Fought for the South. I have one Great-Great-Grandfather who fought for the North. I HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT To HONOR BOTH BANNERS!...<<

Well said!

[blam]

"What do they teach in public schools in Alabama? Certainly not logic."

Don't attack the whole state because of a few idiots. Everyone has them. The Confedereate flag is on the emblem of the city of Mobile. We are a 'five flags' city. Spain, France, England, Confederate and USA flags are on the emblem.

[Khepera]

bump

[bluecollarman]

"What do they teach in public schools in Alabama?"

Sadly, it's not just in Alabama and not just this flag either. Some of these same folks attack the "Stars and Stripes", and "Columbus Day" with the same rhetoric. It's PC run amok.

[Red Jones]

When I lived in Georgia 30 years ago there was a Klansman who was running for governor (against Jimmy Carter). The state supreme court ruled that all tv stations had to air his ads if he merely paid them. So they aired his ads. You should've seen it, it was pure racism in the ads, they used words very freely that we consider taboo. Yet every tv station had to air the ads though none of them wanted to.

That governor's candidate finished 16'th out of 17 people on the ballot for governor. The Black Panther candidate finished 14'th.

How much we've changed! We now tolerate very little by comparison to what we tolerated then. The fellow flying the flag is most likely not racist at all.

[Arkinsaw]

They restricted his speech solely because of content. That's a big no no as the Supreme Court has made abundantly clear. The problem is, that they don't care.

He will win, but it will take a lot of monetary and legal resources. Brave fellow. Wonder if the ACLU will assist.

[Fred25]

MOBILE AREA BUSINESS AND TOURIST LINKS TO EMAIL AND BOYCOTT

[JMJ333]

Mrs. Alberta Martin--94 years old [last Dec 4th] :

The Last Known Living Widow of a Confederate Veteran

[america76]

"arrested for defying civic leaders"

Did he actually break any specific law or has the act of "defying civic leaders" become illegal in the country? Every day I wonder how it can get any worse then I see something like this.

[blam]

Confederate groups defend flag in emblem

Southern-heritage supporters complain about not being represented on panel to change city's symbol

05/31/2000
By MARK HOLAN
Register Staff Reporter

Southern-heritage supporters Tuesday continued defending the Confederate battle flag in Mobile's emblem as the City Council considers redesigning the symbol displayed on everything from stationery to police cars.

Representatives from Confederate groups, addressing the council's regular meeting for the second consecutive week, complained about not being asked to serve on Mayor Mike Dow's committee to explore the issue.

The committee has recommended incorporating the first of three Confederate national flags, from the period 1861 to 1863, into Mobile's emblem, which includes five other flags that have flown over the city since its founding in 1702.

But those at Tuesday's meeting said the 135-year-old third flag of the defeated Confederate movement - which incorporates the Battle Flag - ought to be the one used in Mobile's logo, if any change takes place at all.

John Rather of the Military Order of the Stars and Bars said using the earlier Confederate flag would be like flying a 48-star national flag.

The Economic, Cultural and Community Development Committee led by Councilwoman Bess Rich will review the issue in the coming weeks, but a meeting date had not been set Tuesday.

Rich said the committee, which also includes Councilmen Mabin Hicks and Thomas Sullivan, will welcome comments and historical information from all sides.

A committee recommendation about the city emblem then will go to the full council for a vote. "We should not drag this out," Rich said.

Horace L. Christian, who raised the Battle Flag issue last month and served on Dow's committee, said the Spanish flag in the emblem is incorrect. Jay Higginbotham of the city archives said the French flag is wrong.

The logo was created in 1961, then ratified by the council in 1968, Christian said.

Rich said if the city decides to redesign the emblem, the new logo could be phased in over time to save money.

Flying the Confederate battle flag over government property has been a controversial issue for years in Southern states, and surfaced in Mobile three years ago when a city employee mistakenly put up the Battle Flag at Cooper Riverside Park.

Some Americans, blacks in particular, have looked at government-sanctioned displays of the battle flag as painful reminders of a racist past.

More recently, the battle flag issue flared in South Carolina. There, a boycott by black groups helped lead to the flag's scheduled removal from the Capitol dome July 1.

Before Tuesday's council meeting, Confederate flag supporter A.J. DuPree Jr. suggested to reporters that the boycott caused an increase in South Carolina tourism.

"I think that while this blackmail has been going on, this boycott, tourism has increased in South Carolina seven to 10 percent."

In fact, tourism increased 11 percent from 1998 to 1999, said Lou Fontana, communications director for the South Carolina Department of Parks, Recreation & and Tourism. But that's not because of the boycott, he said by telephone Tuesday.

For the period August 1999 through this March, the state lost $15 million to $20 million in convention revenue, Fontana estimated.

"We cannot put a dollar figure on what it did to our image," he said. "It will take a long time for us to rectify what it did to South Carolina."

[eddie willers]

When I lived in Georgia 30 years ago there was a Klansman who was running for governor

That was J.B.Stoner.
Boy.....was he a piece of work!

[caseyblane]

I HAVE A GOD GIVEN RIGHT

Sorry, those are all gone. I heard a radio commercial last night for the station, WSB in Atlanta, they played examples of what was on the radio currently in Afghanistan. They played fuzz, then played some clips of what was on the radio in the US. They then told the listener how we were lucky to live in America because of priveleges like Free Speech.

[goodieD]

Confederate heritage is NOT a sin! Be proud, y'all! The first amendment applies to EVERYONE, not just liberals and historical revisionists!

[DoughtyOne]

This is a really sad blotch on our moral standing. The man has rights. It's really sad when 10% of society can dictate what goes in in society at large. What's even more worrysome is what it will be like when minorities hold an even larger slice of the population pie.

[Arkinsaw]

Why would a man get arrested for a Confederate flag? Beyond the fact that he has an inalienable God-given right to political speech, there is a sentiment involved similar to the sentiment in this old Confederate Veteran's song...
----------------------------------------------------------------

The fearful struggle's ended now and peace smiles on our land,
And though we've yielded we have proved ourselves a faithful band.
We fought them long, we fought them well, we fought them night and day,
And bravely struggled for our rights while wearing of the gray.
And now that we have ceased to fight and pledged our sacred word,
That we against the Union's might no more will draw the sword,
We feel despite the sneers of those who never smelt the fray,
That we've a manly, honest right to wearing of the gray.

Our cause is lost the more we fight 'gainst o'erwhelming power,
All wearied are our limbs and drenched with many a battle shower.
We feign we rest for want of strength in yielding up the day,
And lower the flag so proudly born while wearing of the gray.

Defeat is not dishonor, our honor not bereft,
We thank God that in our hearts this priceless boon was left.
And though we weep just for those braves who stood in proud array,
Beneath our flag and nobly died while wearing of the gray.

When in the ranks of war we stood and faced the deadly hail,
Our simple suits of gray composed our only coats of mail.
And on the awful hours that marked the bloody battle day,
In memories we'll still be seen wearing of the gray.

Oh! should we reach that glorious place where waits a sparklin' crown,
For everyone who for the right his soldier life lay down.
God grant to us the privilege upon that happy day,
Of claspin' hands with those who fell while wearing of the gray.

The Confederate flag will be flying long after the names of it's attackers are forgotten.

[Johnny Crab]

Such nice folks should be commended personally and carefully about their wonderful treatment of the public. Departmental Contacts Mayor: Mike Dow (mayor@ci.mobile.al.us) Public Relations: Justina Strong (strongj@ci.mobile.al.us) Telephone Information: Main Contact: 251-208-7806