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To: TapTheSource

=== btw, the Soviet and the Arabs were on the wrong side of God's prophetic plan as well.

How can that be?

I am not one of those who believes in EITHER Faith OR Reason. In fact, I'm quite confident that anyone interested in rightly perceiving and humbly doing God's will must needs rely on BOTH at all times so to keep his chariot from careening to one side or the other.

At this point, utterly fantastic pronouncements on the Evil Ones such as yours above are every bit as intelligible to me as the ramblings of those who cannot fathom the "despicable act" for which Onan was put to death or who manage to rationalize somehow the Purposeful Exclusion of the Creator from the marriage bed as somehow pleasing to God in that they -- not He -- are the best judge of exactly When and How many of "God's blessings" they can afford.

God is not a fiend. Nor -- if his relenting on asking Abraham to sacrifice HIS own son -- does he expect us to be gods ourselves and able to put other men to the tests we devise in order to tell Chosen from UnChosen, Elect from Reprobate.

THE ONLY yardstick we have is whether men follow their consciences or not. The Incarnation is not only an event in Time to which those born before Christ had no access but also an event to which is not given all men to know anything about much less apprehend rightly (in the case of those whose faiths or lack of faith or circumstances preclude such apprehension).

Conscience -- God's law written in the heart of every human being -- rightly educated, formed and FOLLOWED, precludes any man from setting himself up as God (taking the Lord's name in vain) or rationalizing clearly immoral acts (such as murder, envy, theft, failure to honor one's parents or protect one's children from the Moment of Creation, etc.) and cannot possibly lead any just man to believe that Some are More Equal than others simply by virtue of their having been born in the right place at the right time.

I think it's a seriously grave error to believe one can tell those whom God has "chosen" to do evil so that His will might be accomplished. Primarily because we are locked in Time, have no real concept of the mystery of Free Will and the ability of God alone to know a man's heart, it would be rash in the extreme to pick and choose those evil traitors or those evil acts which God DETERMINED somehow would operate to fulfill His plans for human redemption.

Likewise, the same would apply for any Christian tempted to believe that Mary -- however spotless was her soul -- had no Choice in the matter of accepting God's will as proposed to her by Gabriel. Either hers is a triumph as handmaiden and humble servant of the Lord or she was just predestined by God to be a robot.

You cannot have it both ways.

It's at this point, sadly, our conversation ends for now where this line of argument is concerned. I have no wish to be embroiled labyrinthian arguments of selected Scripture that is simply irreconciliable with the Whole of revealed knowledge and -- further -- contrary to human reason. This is where we simply have to agree to disagree for now if we're to salvage for the time being the ability to discourse on incontrovertible facts, events and prognoses for the ongoing march of the revolution at home and abroad by "any means necessary" ... particularly the Triangulation of the People of the Book by atheists whose "some are more equal than others" bent ought to be an indication of how best they manage to play the Faithbased like pianos.

37 posted on 10/31/2004 5:39:29 AM PST by Askel5 ( Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. )
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To: Askel5
You're right, it is impossible to have a serious debate on this subject if you are unwilling to consult God's Word. Still, if you read the two books I suggested, I think you will A) be forced to exonerate M. Begin and the Irgun if you wish to be consistent with your own standard (yes, it is you who are being inconsistent when it comes to Israel) B) realize that Israel was (and is) a major battleground between religious Jews and the Communists (religious Jews backed by millions of Christians versus international Communism, and religious Jews versus socialist and Communist Jews who were working with the Communists to "internationalize" control of Eretz Israel as per their plan to create a pan-Arab regional government dominated by Communists). The difference between the two sides is as clear as night and day. I'm starting to think you have theological reasons for not learning the TRUTH about the founding of Israel.
41 posted on 10/31/2004 9:10:29 AM PST by TapTheSource
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