Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Camp for Nude Witches Fights Closing
Reuters ^ | 11-28-2001

Posted on 11/28/2001 5:56:58 AM PST by Cagey

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 441-460461-480481-500501-520 next last
To: EricOKC
One of the most common reasons for one to reject a Christian upbringing and become a "Pagan" is because Christian teaching interfers with their pursuit of sexaul pleasure.

Of course, the "pagan" path will lead to a callused heart, the inability to love and, ultimately, to Hell.

461 posted on 11/29/2001 6:47:34 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 455 | View Replies]

Comment #462 Removed by Moderator

Comment #463 Removed by Moderator

To: EricOKC
It's the difference between someone who cares enough about you who will tell you to stop doing a particular thing which will hurt you, and someone who doesn't particulary care about you who will tell you to do anything you feel like.
464 posted on 11/29/2001 6:56:33 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 462 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
"Really? Having known a few pagans in my life, I would agree.They would recognize the kid as a minor and an outsider. And they would try to corrupt/seduce him/her anyway if they thought they could get away with it." And there have been cases of Priests and Pastors molesting children, do we then shut down all christian churches or assume all christians are child molesters??
465 posted on 11/29/2001 7:00:24 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 454 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
But again, you are putting words in my mouth.

Baloney I am. Throughout this thread, you've maintained that this municipality had every right to do what it did, even without any evidence of wrong-doing. It was okay for you because of who they were and how they worshiped. Then you started dragging "queers" and pedophiles into the mix, all the while not-so-clandestinely insinuating that these people were queers and pedophiles---saying how you wouldn't defend their basic human rights---hell, you even said you wouldn't mind if the state roughed them up a little bit. Then you inferred that the whole American system of justice was just a bunch of BS anyway: you were some ethereal citizen who owed allegiance to some higher sovereign, and if others didn't follow the same path as you, well, tough luck to them. In fact, you said you consider yourself a bunch of other things before you considered yourself "American."

All this demonstrates that you're very concerned with how others live their lives. In fact, you strike me as someone who'd love it if the full force of government could be brought to bear on those you consider heathens. I think you'd love it if the government enforced your moral code.

Allow me to rephrase and perhaps alter my question: Do you consider those who don't worship the same God you do or in the same way you do unworthy of the same rights and protections you enjoy as a United States citizen? Do you consider the people who don't follow your faith sub-citizens?


466 posted on 11/29/2001 7:12:48 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 459 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
"It's the difference between someone who cares enough about you who will tell you to stop doing a particular thing which will hurt you, and someone who doesn't particulary care about you who will tell you to do anything you feel like." Trib, I understand your beliefs and applaud you for them. But let explain to you why certain types of christians annoy me. I have (or should say had) a friend that I had known since grade school, when we were growing up and into our mid twenties, he was would most people would call a "wild child." Doing the types of things that arent illegal, but most christians would frown upon. When he was 28, he met a wonderful woman who is now his wife, she was a christian and he converted to that lifestyle. We as couples remained close, his wife and my wife were best friends, the families did everything together. Then he started preaching to me about "saving" me, then he started telling me how to raise my kids, what I should or should not be watching on TV, listening to on the radio etc etc etc...So much so, that we pretty much do not speak anymore. What irks me is in my life I have not done 1/8 of what he has done, that christians consider wrong, but he has the cojones to preach to me about how I live my life. When he lived a "sex, drugs and rock and roll" lifestyle for all those years I was the "goody "goody", but because I dont subscribe to his version of christianity, now Im a bad person.
467 posted on 11/29/2001 7:13:02 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 464 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
And Boy Scout leaders too.

Let's suppose this camp was affiliated with a Christian church and there was concerns of pedophilia taking place there. Would you object to its permit being pulled?

If you've been following this discussion you would know that it has evolved to the point where we are pondering hypotheticals rather than specific occurances at this camp. If this organization has done nothing illegal and the allegations of pedeophilia are unfounded the permit should remain.

However, most Wiccan/pagan/new age types consider sexual taboos to repressive and bad for your psyche which is a strike against them in dealing with allegations of pedeophilia.

468 posted on 11/29/2001 7:13:05 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 465 | View Replies]

To: EricOKC
And they keep saying "burn the witches, stone the queers" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
469 posted on 11/29/2001 7:13:35 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 463 | View Replies]

To: Hemingway's Ghost
He already stated in a earlier post to me, by way of inference that he did not support freedom of religion. Therefore, I informed him that due to that statement, he has lost any ability to stand up for christians wherever and whenever they are being challenged by the goverment, be it local or federal on an issue of religious faith or practice.
470 posted on 11/29/2001 7:19:30 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 466 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
What irks me is in my life I have not done 1/8 of what he has done, that christians consider wrong, but he has the cojones to preach to me about how I live my life.

I have heard it said that the most annoying person in the world is a reformed prostitute. I was a bit wild and went through something similiar with me playing the role of the annoying preacher. It's almost like I had to do a penance. The farther one gets from the evil one has done, the less of a fundamentalist one becomes. One begins to understand better the love and mercy part. Tell your friend that if God were a fundamentalist the woman at the well would never have made it home.

471 posted on 11/29/2001 7:22:58 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 467 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
Mail call trooper!!!
472 posted on 11/29/2001 7:24:34 AM PST by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 470 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
"Let's suppose this camp was affiliated with a Christian church and there was concerns of pedophilia taking place there. Would you object to its permit being pulled? Without evidence or due process, the camp should remain open. The town board in this case even stated there was no evidence of any illegal activity at this private camp, but went ahead with the decision to not grant the permit. The denial of the permit is based strictly on the communities disagreement with the type of religion that is practiced there, which is in direct opposition to the constitutional rights of freedom of assembly and freedom of religion. Plus im sure it violates about a half dozen state or local laws on property rights and ownership. "If you've been following this discussion you would know that it has evolved to the point where we are pondering hypotheticals rather than specific occurances at this camp. If this organization has done nothing illegal and the allegations of pedeophilia are unfounded the permit should remain" Good, Im glad to see that you agree with me. However some of your fellow christians: biblewonk, classygreeneyedblonde and he rides a white horse to name few, believe the town has the right to shut down the retreat based totally on the majority of citizens in the town, disagreeing with the type of religion that is practiced there. That is not Democracy, That is theocracy! Which goes against the core tenets upon which this nation was founded.
473 posted on 11/29/2001 7:31:25 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 468 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
Without evidence or due process, the camp should remain open. The town board in this case even stated there was no evidence of any illegal activity at this private camp, but went ahead with the decision to not grant the permit.

I'm not sure why a land-use permit was required for the camp or what stipulations were placed on granting it but whatever they were doing required a permit it was not by right and the Town Board may very well have the rightful authority to revoke it. The town is being sued and a court will decide

The denial of the permit is based strictly on the communities disagreement with the type of religion that is practiced there,

No there were allegations of crime and unsavory behavior, too. Officials say there was no evidence of crime but that doesn't mean bad things weren't happening. The revoking of a permit is not the same as a criminal prosecution and standards of evidence are not the same. Nobody is being threatend with jail. All that's being said is that what we had allowed you to do earlier you are no longer allowed to do. The camp is claiming a violation of religious freedom and a court will decide the matter.

474 posted on 11/29/2001 7:44:37 AM PST by Tribune7
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 473 | View Replies]

To: biblewonk
There is no such thing as wholesome nude recreation anymore than there is such a thing as innocent sinless people.

What's unwholesome about sunbathing, swimming, or playing volleyball in the nude?

475 posted on 11/29/2001 7:48:34 AM PST by ThreeOfSeven
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 456 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
What you are doing is giving the community rights above the individual based on community norms. The community has a right to comment on what is done in a "public" arena, but not what happens on private land or a private home as long as the behavior is not illegal.

Uh, I think you have a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of how our system of government works. The local community DOES have rights above the individual based on community norms. For example, if I lived next door to you and opened a sewage treatment plant in my back yard, are you telling me that you and the rest of our neighbors would have no recourse? A local community has an absolute right to set standards. The beauty of it is, if you are personally put out by those standards, you can chose to live anywhere you wish. I'll bet Ithaca, NY would have no problem with drunken pagan orgies.

Also, who decides what's illegal? If the local community in this case decided that 'playing drums ourside after dark" was illegal, is that proper in your mind?
476 posted on 11/29/2001 8:01:09 AM PST by Antoninus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 442 | View Replies]

To: Tribune7
The allegations made were made by people who had never visited the camp. The most offensive thing anyone has seen at the camp according to the article, is glimpsing a nude hiker along a wooded path. These are the types of allegations made against the Davidians by the FEDS and we all saw what happened there. Honestly, do you think the town if they could have, would have found a much better reason to shut down the camp if one existed? Im sure that in a small town like this, the rumors got around and the police were probably there a number of times and found nothing.

The same way some christians on this thread have suggested that homosexuals and pedophilies cloak themselves in a "religion" in order to disguise their activity, I suggest this town and town board has cloaked this issue in the guise of "possible illegal activity and satan worship" to hide their own motivation which is religious bigotry.

477 posted on 11/29/2001 8:01:55 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 474 | View Replies]

To: All-American Medic
He already stated in a earlier post to me, by way of inference that he did not support freedom of religion.

If indeed that's the case, I dare him to make his beliefs public on this thread.


478 posted on 11/29/2001 8:03:29 AM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 470 | View Replies]

To: ThreeOfSeven
Is anything unwholesome? If so why and who says it is?
479 posted on 11/29/2001 8:09:22 AM PST by biblewonk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 475 | View Replies]

To: Antoninus
"Uh, I think you have a pretty fundamental misunderstanding of how our system of government works. The local community DOES have rights above the individual based on community norms. For example, if I lived next door to you and opened a sewage treatment plant in my back yard, are you telling me that you and the rest of our neighbors would have no recourse." This is incorrect on two counts. Firstly, If you build a sewage plant in your backyard, that is a zoning issue. Also the smell would affect the neighbors, and these people are out in the middle of the woods and you have to specifically go there to view their activities. Secondly this is not simply a private property issue. This is a freedom of religion issue. These people are practicing their religion, no matter how strange it may seem to you and I. The town is attempting to shut the campground strictly on the basis of the towns disdain for the form of religion that is practiced there, not only is that unconstitutional but you as a christian should be vehemently opposed to such an action.

Remember what you allow the government or the town in this case to do, may be visited back upon you. Supposing a liberal town in Massachusetts, decides not to issue a building permit to a conservative church based strictly on the fact that a majority of the townspeople are liberals. Does the town have that right? If the church has all the necessary legal paperwork, documentation and funding to build the church and has purchased the land with it's own funds?? If you as a christian allow this to happen, be careful you might be next.

480 posted on 11/29/2001 8:15:04 AM PST by All-American Medic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 476 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 441-460461-480481-500501-520 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson