Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

AMA VOTES AGAINST LETTING WOMEN KNOW "THE PILL" IS ABORTIFACIENT
CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS ^ | Dec 10, 01 | CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS

Posted on 12/10/2001 8:17:12 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp

AMA Votes Against Letting Women Know "The Pill" Is Abortifacient
WASHINGTON, DC, Dec 10, 01 (LSN.ca/CWNews.com) - The American Medical Association last week voted overwhelmingly against a proposal to inform women about the potential for birth control pills to cause the abortion of an embryo by preventing implantation in the uterus.

Cybercast News Service reports that Dr. John C. Nelson, a member of the AMA's executive committee and a self-described conservative, said the Alabama doctor who put forward the proposal before the AMA "believes that in the spirit of enhancing the patient/physician relationship, that information ought to be disclosed to patients to help them make choices." Nelson said, "I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what the AMA is about. It's a cornerstone of American medicine."

However, according to Nelson, the proposal was voted down because "many people from the American Society of Reproductive Medicine... decided that they would testify, and their testimony was that there is not sufficient scientific evidence to suggest" that birth control substances can induce abortions. Walter Weber, senior litigation counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a Virginia-based public interest law firm, reacted to the vote saying, "If [pro-life women] are using a method that can operate after fertilization as well as before fertilization, and they don't know it, they are basically being deceived by lack of information into violating their own consciences."

The Family Research Council (FRC) condemned the attempt to conceal the truth from women. FRC Advisory Board Member John Diggs, MD, said Friday, "The AMA is doing a great disservice to women by refusing to fully inform them of their birth control options. Since informed consent is a basic medical ethic, it should be standard operating procedure to tell women that the birth control pill can cause an abortion. Each woman has the right to know what's good for her health and acceptable to her conscience. If the AMA has suppressed its conscience, it shouldn't draw American women into its own ethical lapses."

FRC noted that the prescribing information for Ortho Tri-Cyclen, a popular oral contraceptive, enumerates three pathways by which the pill works: suppressing ovulation, preventing fertilization, and precluding the implantation of an already fertilized egg. The third one constitutes an abortion. The third function is conspicuously excluded from information made available to patients. "If manufacturers are telling doctors that oral contraceptives can keep a new member of the human family from being nourished, why isn't that information being passed on to patients?", asked Diggs.

Nelson noted that lobbying by the American Society of Reproductive Medicine largely contributed to the AMA's decision.

====================================================

Catholic World News is available via email for personal use only. To subscribe or for further information, contact subs@cwnews.com or visit our Web page at http://www.cwnews.com.

Catholic World News (c) Copyright Domus Enterprises 2001.



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortionlist; catholiclist; christianlist; michaeldobbs
Archives of Family Medicine, Vol. 9 No. 2, February 2000, "Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent," Walter L. Larimore, MD; Joseph B. Stanford, MD, MSPH

ABSTRACT:

The primary mechanism of oral contraceptives is to inhibit ovulation, but this mechanism is not always operative. When breakthrough ovulation occurs, then secondary mechanisms operate to prevent clinically recognized pregnancy. These secondary mechanisms may occur either before or after fertilization. Postfertilization effects would be problematic for some patients, who may desire information about this possibility. This article evaluates the available evidence for the postfertilization effects of oral contraceptives and concludes that good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects. However, there are insufficient data to quantitate the relative contribution of postfertilization effects. Despite the lack of quantitative data, the principles of informed consent suggest that patients who may object to any postfertilization loss should be made aware of this information so that they can give fully informed consent for the use of oral contraceptives.

*****

Always a Bitter Pill, Now the Risk of Breast Cancer Makes Oral Contraceptives Even Harder to Swallow

by Dr. Brian J. Kopp

Lay Witness Magazine, January 2002 edition

"It may not have rocked the ground like the 1945 detonation of the first atomic bomb. . . , but Enovid did more than just provide a technological tour de force. It transformed the very fabric of modern society. . ."

So reported "The Pill At 40", an article in the July-August 2000 "FDA Consumer" magazine, singing the praises of the Pill and celebrating the 40th anniversary of its approval by the Food and Drug Administration. On June 23, 1960, Enovid became the first oral contraceptive approved for sale in the USA, following several years of development and trials on third world women.

The article failed to mention the bitter legacy of the Pill over that same 40 years. Minor side effects abound, such as nausea, irregular bleeding, depression, weight gain, breast tenderness, and diminished libido. Some, however, are life threatening. Blood clots, pulmonary embolism, heart attack, and stroke have claimed the lives of many women taking the Pill since its introduction in 1960. Decreasing the dosages of the hormones in the Pill have lessened but not eliminated these deadly risks.

"Postfertilization Effects of Oral Contraceptives and Their Relationship to Informed Consent" was the first medical journal article to explain the mechanism by which the Pill prevents implantation of a fertilized egg in the womb, its lining (or endometrium) improperly formed under the influence of the Pill's hormones. Published in the February 2000 Archives of Family Medicine, a journal of the American Medical Association, it proved for both the secular world and a divided pro-life movement that the Pill is not only a contraceptive but also a chemical abortifacient. The report concludes:

"The available evidence supports the hypothesis that when ovulation and fertilization occur in women taking OCs, postfertilization effects are operative on occasion to prevent clinically recognized pregnancy. Physicians should understand and respect the beliefs of patients who consider human life to be present and valuable from the moment of fertilization."

While litigation in the USA relative to the Pill has been limited to suits aimed at forcing insurance plans to cover the Pill, in Britain a class action lawsuit has begun addressing another aspect of informed consent. In January 2002, 122 women and/or their families will take three pharmaceutical companies before England's High Court, charging that the Pill has caused blood clots resulting in lifelong illnesses and even death, and that they were never informed of the severe risks. Ten percent of the 122 claims involve a fatality. Unfortunately, these side effects have been known for four decades, and the prospects of success for these victims are uncertain.

However, compelling data has emerged linking the Pill with the rapid increase of breast cancer in the US, with a potential of class action lawsuits that could eclipse those even of the tobacco industry. Evidence has been available for several decades linking oral contraceptives with breast cancer in certain lab animals. According to Chris Kahlenborn, MD, one of the nation's leading researchers on the breast cancer/ Pill connection, the evidence of a link in humans is incontrovertible. His book summarizing his research and findings, BREAST CANCER: Its Link to Abortion and the Birth Control Pill, was published recently by One More Soul (www.OMS.com.)

In the book he makes a compelling case for such a link. He began researching the issue after hearing a presentation in 1993 that described an increase in breast cancer risk due to abortion, apparently caused by hormonal changes in the woman's body, and began an exhaustive review of the research to ascertain whether contraceptive hormones in the Pill might have the same effect.

The bottom line, after 8 years of exhaustive research and study? Dr. Kahlenborn replied, "There is a 45% increased risk of developing breast cancer if a woman takes an oral contraceptive for four years before her first full term pregnancy. This number is statistically significant to the 99th percentile."

"Informed consent is MIA. Catholic OB/GYN's are doing a grave disservice in handing this out. Today's cigarette story [the tobacco class action lawsuits] could be tomorrow's Pill story. There is no informed consent. The breast cancer and the social effects cause such devastation to families!"

He compares the current state of denial among the American medical establishment to a similar episode that occurred several decades ago. "History is repeating itself. DES was taken in the 40's and 50's to prevent miscarriage. A 35% increased risk of breast cancer was found." At the time DES (diethylstilbestrol) was used, some were concerned of a potential risk of breast cancer, while the American medical establishment denied the possibility. Only after 25 years was it discovered that DES use carried a 35% increased breast cancer risk.

Currently, more than 175,000 U.S. women develop breast cancer and more than 43,000 die from it each year. One in eight women in the US will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. Yet 50 years ago, breast cancer was relatively rare. When asked what other factors might account for such a rapid increase in the rates of breast cancer, Dr. Kahlenborn was blunt. "I don't know. Two other factors come into play: decreased family size and decreased breast feeding. Both come into play." Pregnancy and breast feeding have been known to protect against breast cancer for many years. Obviously, these factors cannot account for the fact that breast cancer is increasing more rapidly in western countries, countries with early Pill use before first full term pregnancy.

Medical research findings have been contradictory. In 1972 a series of animal research studies showed that an oral contraceptive appeared to cause metastatic breast cancer in rhesus monkeys, which rarely develop breast cancer. In 1989 Anderson et al published a paper that found that women who had never had children who took the Pill had a significantly higher rate of breast cell division than childless mothers who had never taken the Pill. In general, cells that divide more rapidly are more vulnerable to carcinogens and more likely to become cancerous. A study in 1981 found that women who took the Pill for 4 years prior to their first full-term pregnancy (FFTP) had a 125% increased risk of breast cancer before age 32. In 1993, the CASH study showed a 40% increased risk in women taking the Pill before FFTP. Later in England another large study revealed a 44% increased risk. The last large study in 1995 showed a 42% increased risk. A meta-analysis (a statistical analysis of many other research studies) in 1990 found that, overall, the studies up to that time confirmed an increased risk of breast cancer of 72% for women under age 45 who took oral contraceptive pills for 4 or more years before having a full-term pregnancy. Use of these contraceptives for longer periods appears to carry an even higher risk.

However, the Oxford study, the largest meta-analysis to date, concluded that:

"Women who are currently using [the Pill] or have used them in the past 10 years are at a slightly increased risk of having breast cancer diagnosed, although the additional cancers tend to be localized to the breast. There is no evidence of an increase in the risk of having breast cancer diagnosed 10 or more years after cessation of use..."

Dr. Kahlenborn sees severe weaknesses in the Oxford study. He states in his book:

"The main weakness was the failure to report any evidence of what the pooled risk of oral contraceptive use before a FFTP was in women under 45 years old. . . A woman's breast is especially sensitive to carcinogenic influence. . . before [FFTP] because the breast undergoes a maturing process throughout a woman's first pregnancy. By failing to measure the effect. . . before a. . . woman's [FFTP] the Oxford study failed to give data on the one group of women who are most likely to get breast cancer from oral contraceptives."

Currently Dr. Kahlenborn is working on another meta-analysis that he hopes will be published within one year. This analysis attempts to analyze the data of all the studies available from the 1980's and 1990's, in an effort to obtain a more accurate statistical analysis specifically of women taking the Pill for several years prior to their first full-term pregnancy.

The Food and Drug Administration's FDA consumer magazine maintained that Enovid may not have rocked the ground like the 1945 detonation of the first atomic bomb. Dr. Kahlenborn would be inclined to disagree. "Hormonal chemical contraceptives are the equivalent to a nuclear bomb in their devastation to the family." Sickness, cancer and death lies in the wake of this bitter Pill. Can massive product liability suits be far behind?


1 posted on 12/10/2001 8:17:12 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: patent; *Catholic_list; *Christian_list; *Abortion_list; *Pro_life
If the possibility exists of an abortifacient effect (the AMA's own journal, Archives of Family Medicine, reported last year that postfertilization effects do indeed occur, see link and abstract above) then doctors have a moral and legal duty to give fully informed consent.
2 posted on 12/10/2001 8:20:30 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
pill is not abortion,,,, get real
3 posted on 12/10/2001 8:20:31 PM PST by KQQL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
Read the AMA's own Archives of Family Medicine journal article (linked above) yourself, then get really informed.

Your own personal denial does not change the concrete proven reality that the pill is abortifacient.

4 posted on 12/10/2001 8:24:10 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
I know we have argues about this before, but I am willing to take the risk that a an egg *might* get fertilized. The pill works for me to also reduce my flow and cramps. I'll keep it.
5 posted on 12/10/2001 8:26:46 PM PST by Bella_Bru
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Bella_Bru
I spoke too soon eh???

G'nite

6 posted on 12/10/2001 8:29:02 PM PST by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: OneidaM
'Night to you too. :-)
7 posted on 12/10/2001 8:30:49 PM PST by Bella_Bru
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Bella_Bru
All women at least deserve the right to be fully informed of that possibility in order to decide which method is right for them. The AMA just chose to continue the deceit.
8 posted on 12/10/2001 8:35:13 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
birth control is not abortion.
9 posted on 12/10/2001 8:42:52 PM PST by KQQL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
Read the link. Birth control is, indeed, sometimes abortion. No amount of protest to the contrary changes medical fact.

--Dr. Kopp

10 posted on 12/10/2001 8:49:31 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
sorry . birth control is not abortion, but I respect catholics for their believes.
However, other religious believes should be respected too.
Once again birth control is not Abortion....
11 posted on 12/10/2001 8:58:46 PM PST by KQQL
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
Every sperm is precious... hee hee...
12 posted on 12/10/2001 9:51:59 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
"However, other religious believes should be respected too. Once again birth control is not Abortion...."

What the hell does religious belief have to do with anything? Oral contraceptives sometimes work as an abortifacient, affecting the endometrial lining of the uterus so that the one-week-old baby has a much greater risk of starving to death. This thread might help you a bit.

13 posted on 12/10/2001 9:52:19 PM PST by toenail
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
Your own personal denial does not change the concrete proven reality that the pill is abortifacient.

Each month, one of four things will happen in a woman's body: (1) an unfertilized egg may be discharged from the body; (2) a fertilized egg may be discharged from the body; (3) a fertilized egg will implant in the womb; or (4) there will be no egg.

Is the absolute likelihood of #2 happening in any given month increased or reduced by the use of oral contraceptives? My impression is that such contraceptives increase probability #4 to the point that probability #2 is well below what it would be were contraceptives not used.

To view it another way, suppose there are two groups of 1,000 sexually active women; one uses oral contraceptives but one does not. The menses from each group are examined to determine whether they contain a fertilized egg. In which group would the number of rejected fertilized eggs be higher?

14 posted on 12/10/2001 10:57:10 PM PST by supercat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: supercat
It's time for bed, so I can't respond in depth now, but there's no such thing as a "fertilized egg."
15 posted on 12/10/2001 11:17:53 PM PST by toenail
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: supercat
From the article linked above. (I'll answer your question more directly later tonight.)

MECHANISMS OF OCs

The literature discusses several mechanisms for OCs. While the primary effect of OCs is the inhibition of ovulation via suppression of pituitary gonadotropin secretion (this mechanism is operative most of the time),1, 10, 12 secondary effects are implicated at times of breakthrough ovulation to prevent clinically recognized pregnancy.17, 18 We classified these secondary effects as occurring either prefertilization or postfertilization. Secondary prefertilization effects may include alterations in cervical mucus that limit sperm penetration2, 17-20 and changes in the endometrium and fallopian tube that may impede normal sperm transport.2, 17, 18, 21

Breakthrough ovulation rates vary by the form and the dose of the OC used.2, 10, 12, 18, 22 With OCs, breakthrough ovulation is more likely with lower doses of estrogen and with imperfect rather than perfect use.10, 12, 16, 17, 23-25 Perfect use of OCs implies taking them consistently and correctly (ie, in the correct order, on time, each and every day, and without other medications that might diminish the effectiveness of OCs). Typical use is described as the full range of usage patterns for OCs that actually occur in women.1, 11, 12, 18 While some smaller studies that evaluated small numbers of women for 6 or fewer cycles have reported breakthrough ovulation rates of near 0, studies that evaluated women for at least 6 cycles demonstrated ovulation rates ranging from 1.7%25 to 28.6%23 per cycle. For POPs, reported breakthrough ovulation rates range from 33%26 to 65%.20, 27, 28

Obviously, breakthrough ovulation can result in unintended pregnancy1, 17, 18; however, the pregnancy rates with typical use vary widely and are often underestimated.29 Unadjusted analyses of unintended pregnancies while using COCs report rates of 0.1 to 1.0 per 100 woman-years of use in perfect use and 3 per 100 woman-years in the first year of typical use.1, 10, 12, 17, 18, 20 Most of these data do not account for elective abortions. One national analysis that accounted for the underreporting of elective abortions estimated that the unintended pregnancy rates during the first year of OC use were 4% for "good compliers," 8% for "poor compliers," and up to 29% for some users.29 Rates of pregnancy are higher with POPs than with COCs.1, 17, 18 Unadjusted analyses of pregnancies while taking POPs reported rates of 0.5 to 1.0 per 100 woman-years of perfect use and 3 to 7 per 100 woman-years in the first year of typical use.1, 10, 12, 17, 18, 20 However, these rates have not been adjusted for elective abortions and are almost certainly underestimated.29 Progestin-only pills are reported to have potent effects on both cervical mucus and the endometrium.19-21, 30, 31 While this has led to speculation that "the principal mode of action is . . . to make the cervical mucus hostile to the transport of the sperm,"17 animal model data32 and data on ectopic pregnancy rates (reviewed below) suggest that postfertilization effects also play a role.

In theory, postfertilization effects of OCs could involve any 1 or more of the following 3 mechanisms of action: (1) A postfertilization preimplantation effect would consist of a slower transport of the preembryo through the fallopian tube, preventing the preembryo from implanting in the uterus; this could result either in the unrecognized loss of the preembryo or in an ectopic (tubal) pregnancy if the preembryo had slower tubal transport and ended up implanting in the fallopian tube. (2) A peri-implantation effect would be the alteration of the endometrium, such that a preembryo that reached the uterus was unable to successfully implant into the endometrial lining of the uterus. (3) A postimplantation effect could result from alteration of the endometrium not sufficient to prevent implantation but unfavorable for maintenance of the pregnancy; a preembryo or embryo already implanted in the endometrial lining of the uterus would be unable to maintain itself long enough to result in a clinically recognized pregnancy.

16 posted on 12/11/2001 4:30:17 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
Once again, you are wrong, as well as ignorant of medical facts. READ THE ARTICLE!!!

If you are intellectually capable of comprehending it, a big "if", you will realize your error.

17 posted on 12/11/2001 4:34:31 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
"that information ought to be disclosed to patients to help them make choices."

Yes. I guess "pro-choice" is NOT about education.
18 posted on 12/11/2001 5:00:01 AM PST by NewCenturions
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
sorry . birth control is not abortion, but I respect catholics for their believes. However, other religious believes should be respected too. Once again birth control is not Abortion....
The question here is not whether birth control is or is not abortion. That depends a great deal on the type of birth control. A condom, for example, is not. Here we are talking about just one form of birth control – the pill – not about all of them. Please understand that. We are not discussing the condom or any of the myriad other forms of birth control. Just the one form, the pill.

Second, this is not a matter of belief for a Catholic. Whether or not the pill also acts as both a contraceptive and an abortifacient is not an article of the Catholic faith. So far as I know the Vatican has never addressed the issue, nor has my bishop. What is a matter of faith to us is that we consider abortion wrong AND we consider contraception wrong. Please understand though, that we do see the difference between them. One is murder, one is merely resisting God’s will. But whether a particular method is an abortifacient or a contraceptive, this is science, it is not faith to a Catholic.

You, on the other hand, in asking us to respect your beliefs, seem to be indicating that this is a matter of faith to you. I can’t understand why, at all. Whether the pill acts as a contraceptive and an abortifacient is a scientific fact. It can be scientifically studied, and has been. Whether it is right or wrong, given the scientific facts, that is faith.

I could see you saying that contraception is morally OK, because that is a matter of faith. That is a religious belief, and I understand that a large number of modern Christians hold that view. Indeed, the pill usually acts as a contraceptive. You need to understand though, that powerful drugs often do more than one thing in the body. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one use, it is frequently prescribed by doctors for other uses. This is even more true when the multiple effects the drug has all effect the same part of the body, here the reproductive system. That is because the drug often does more than one thing once in the body, and this is true for the pill. It acts as a contraceptive in many cases. The fact is though, that the contraceptive function of the pill has a failure rate. ANY scientist is forced to admit this, the pill does not always work. When it does not successfully contracept, sometimes the egg will fertilize. And of these cases, some will result in a chemical abortion.

If you will read nothing else in this article, read the summary:

The primary mechanism of oral contraceptives is to inhibit ovulation, but this mechanism is not always operative. When breakthrough ovulation occurs, then secondary mechanisms operate to prevent clinically recognized pregnancy. These secondary mechanisms may occur either before or after fertilization. Postfertilization effects would be problematic for some patients, who may desire information about this possibility. This article evaluates the available evidence for the postfertilization effects of oral contraceptives and concludes that good evidence exists to support the hypothesis that the effectiveness of oral contraceptives depends to some degree on postfertilization effects. However, there are insufficient data to quantitate the relative contribution of postfertilization effects. Despite the lack of quantitative data, the principles of informed consent suggest that patients who may object to any postfertilization loss should be made aware of this information so that they can give fully informed consent for the use of oral contraceptives.

patent  +AMDG

19 posted on 12/11/2001 6:52:35 AM PST by patent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Robert_Paulson2
>>>>Every sperm is precious... hee hee...

Hey Robert, try not to be a jerk.

patent

20 posted on 12/11/2001 6:53:37 AM PST by patent
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: supercat
Oral contraceptives allow breakthrough ovulation to varying degree, depending on the dose of the hormones. Typical oral contraceptives allow ovulation 5 to 10 % of cycles, while low dose and mini-pill formulas (which contain only synthetic progesterone)allow breakthrough ovulation from 25 to 50% or more of cycles at a minimum.

Actually there is no evidence that progesterone only preparations prevent ovulation at all, since it is the estrogen in the combination pills that interupt the ovulation mechanism. Therefore the minipill, Norplant, and Depo-Provera most likely allow breakthrough ovulation every cycle, and therefore act as abortifacients most cycles by the means noted in the excerpt from the article I posted earlier.

A typical healthy fertile female, engaging in intercourse during the fertile phase, will successfully conceive and implant a fertilized ova approximately 17% of cycles. There is no way to know exactly how often an egg is fertilized and does not implant in a healthy female.

The pill, and especially Norplant, Depo-Provera, and the mini-pill, have much higher than expected rates of ectopic pregnancies, due to the decreased motility of the fallopian tubes under the influence of the progesterone.

The fact that there are increased rates of tubal pregnancies, points to increased rates of fertilzed ova that do not implant in the endometrium in the uterus also.

Unfortunately, there is just no way to determine whether "normal" rates of loss of fertilized ova are more or less than those under the influence of hormonal contraceptives, given the varying rates of breakthrough ovulation.

At a minimum, there are vastly increased rates of loss for progesterone-only formulations compared to healthy females.

However, it is a moot point.

For pro-life Christians, regardless of absolute numbers, hormonal contraceptives are immoral, and patients deserve to be fully informed.

23 posted on 12/11/2001 10:57:32 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: KQQL
birth control is not abortion, but I respect catholics for their believes

Did you pick up that bit of superstition anywhere in particular or is it just a personal mantra that makes you feel better?

I, for one, don't appreciate being patronized by one who clearly believes in unsubstantiated "personal interpretations".

Catholics are strictly scientific in their beliefs ... faith comports perfectly with reason.

This is why the Church's moved to defend life from the moment of conception (as opposed to "quickening") once it was scientifically proven the mother HAS NO MATERIAL EFFECT on and ADDS NOTHING to the complete package of genetic information necessary for the new life to develop. She merely protects and nourishes the child ... as she will for years after he is born.


Q:           Once fertilization, once conception has occurred, could you tell the Court, anything added after the point? Does Peter or Margaret come into being, so to speak, through additional information?

A:           Well, that was a very interesting discovery of modem science. Because for a long time it has been believed that the mother, the feeling of the mother, could do something to the baby. . . . [but] we know now that everything is written inside the first cell.

I have to come back to this concept of conception, because it is a very remarkable fact that in all the languages coming from Latin, we use the same word either to express an idea which comes into our mind, or to a new being coming into life. We conceive an idea. We conceive a baby. A baby is conceived. Conception applies just as well for defining what will animate matter in a human nature or what will animate your mind within your idea.

And that is, so to speak, an extraordinary description of reality which is at the very beginning the information and the matter, so to speak: the spirit and the body are so intimately interwoven that we use the same word to say spirit animated by your ideas, or life of a new human being animated by genetic property-conception.

Now this moment a new human being is conceived is, really, as for the conception of a new constitution, when the whole thing has been spelled out.

Now we know, and I think there's no disagreement among biologists everywhere in this world, that after fecundation no new information goes in. Everything is there, just at the moment after the entry of the sperm, or it is not enough and it will fail. Either the whole information for the human being is there and the human being can develop and organize, or it is not there and no human being will develop at all.

Now nature has invented an extraordinary device to tell us that nature does protect the privacy of the very first stage of the human being. The right of privacy is written in that way in biology.

The egg is a little sphere of one millimeter and a half in diameter. But it is not naked. It has some plastic bag around it that we call from Latin zona pellucida, because you can see through it. And this very curious plastic bag is, in fact, the perfect control of the privacy of the new being because as soon as the head of the sperm who got there first was able to burrow inside the zona pellucida, as soon as the head comes inside, suddenly in a micro-second, this lucida, this transparent membrane becomes suddenly changed physically, and it becomes entirely impermeable to any other sperm.

It's a mechanism of an extraordinary precision which prevents many sperm from going inside the one egg.


Doctor Jérôme Lejeune, R.I.P.
24 posted on 12/11/2001 11:03:44 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: supercat
. In which group would the number of rejected fertilized eggs be higher?

In which group is the woman specifically responsible for ensuring that the new life is purposefully prevented from developing?

25 posted on 12/11/2001 11:05:34 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: supercat
In which group would the number of rejected fertilized eggs be higher?

In which group are the NATURAL deaths?

26 posted on 12/11/2001 11:06:10 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
Good points. I was getting there, but you beat me to them. Thanks.
27 posted on 12/11/2001 11:10:21 AM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Bella_Bru
I hesitate to ask for fear you'll think I'm being anything more than just curious but ... if you've no intention of having kids in all good conscience, why not just sterilize yourself?

Bethanie and I rarely agreed on anything but -- given her stands on human life -- I did have to respect her having herself sterilized as perfectly consistent, if nothing else.

No flows -- much less roller-coaster hormones -- at all ...

28 posted on 12/11/2001 11:26:44 AM PST by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
Sterilization is a good idea. Not financially feasible, however. Neither is having kids right now, or anytime soon.

I can say I wouldn't miss any of the hormone ups and downs, but for now, the BCPs have taken care of that.

29 posted on 12/11/2001 2:18:25 PM PST by Bella_Bru
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Askel5; patent
There are 4 major medical dictionaries, and several online versions. Under pressure from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) several of them have changed the defintion of "conception," proving once again that verbal engineering always preceeds social engineering.

Here is Tabor's Medical Dictionary's entry:

conception (kSn-s&p´shTn)
1. The mental process of forming an idea.
2. The onset of pregnancy marked by implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterine wall. SEE: contraception; fertilization; implantation.
Copyright 2001 by F. A. Davis Company

Here is the entry from "On-line Medical Dictionary":

conception
The onset of pregnancy, marked by implantation of the blastocyst, the formation of a viable zygote. Origin: L. Conceptio

However, Merriam Webster's Medical Dictionary sits on the fence:

Main Entry: con·cep·tion
Pronunciation: k&n-'sep-sh&n
Function: noun
1 a : the process of becoming pregnant involving fertilization or implantation or both b : EMBRYO, : FETUS 2 a : the capacity, function, or process of forming or understanding ideas or abstractions or their symbols b : a general idea

Yet the good old "The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition," Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company, is much more straightforward:

con·cep·tion (kn-spshn)
n.
Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization.
The entity formed by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; an embryo or zygote.
The ability to form or understand mental concepts and abstractions.
Something conceived in the mind; a concept, plan, design, idea, or thought. See Synonyms at idea.
Archaic. A beginning; a start.
[Middle English concepcioun, from Old French conception, from Latin concepti, conceptin-, from conceptus. See concept.]

: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc., does not mince words either:

conception \Con*cep"tion\, n. [F. conception, L. conceptio, fr. concipere to conceive. See Conceive.] 1. The act of conceiving in the womb; the initiation of an embryonic animal life.[remaider of definitions deleted]

WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University puts it succinctly:

conception n 1: an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances [syn: concept, construct] [ant: misconception] 2: the act of becoming pregnant; fertilization of an ovum by a spermatozoon 3: the event that occured at the beginning of something; "from its creation the plan was doomed to failure" [syn: creation] 4: the creation of something in the mind [syn: invention, innovation, excogitation, design]

Hmm, wonder how these medical dictionaries define a tubal pregnancy, if "conception" does not occur till after implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterine wall?

Wonder why the "medical" definition of "conception" has been quietly changed?

No need to wonder...all the latest contraceptive technologies target the baby at its most vulnerable point, i.e., before implantation but after conception (as traditionally defined.)

If "conception is not redefined, medicine must admit that these new technologies are indeed abortifacient. Then comes the whole problem of informed consent, conscience clauses, and a refocus of pro-life activity exactly where medicine does NOT want it.

At that distinct line between conception and implantation, a line already crossed by hormonal contraception, the morning after pill, Norplant, Depo-Provera, IUD's, and many emerging technologies, lies the future of the pro-life battle.

30 posted on 12/11/2001 8:17:11 PM PST by Dr. Brian Kopp
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
In which group are the NATURAL deaths?

Do not many men and women deliberately time intercourse so as to maximize the likelihood of such 'natural' death occurring?

31 posted on 12/13/2001 9:04:38 PM PST by supercat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: proud2bRC
At that distinct line between conception and implantation, a line already crossed by hormonal contraception, the morning after pill, Norplant, Depo-Provera, IUD's, and many emerging technologies, lies the future of the pro-life battle.

It would be better for pro-life people to focus their energies on viable late-term fetuses. A lot more people favor protection of viable 39-week fetuses than favor protection of unimplanted zygotes.

I think the focus should be on overturning Roe v. Wade in such a way as to return such matters to the state level. Laws restricting homocide of 'born' humans are a state matter, after all, and different states have different standards with regard to when homicide may be considered 'justifiable'.

If the Republicans played it right, they could work the abortion issue in such a way as to win votes for themselves while advance the issue far more effectively than they are actually doing. To those who would claim I'm suggesting "appeasement", I would posit that Second-Amendment rights would be much more secure in this country if Sarah Brady et al. did nothing except push for a total gun ban.

32 posted on 12/13/2001 9:18:29 PM PST by supercat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Askel5; supercat
A-- I liked the way you put this:
Catholics are strictly scientific in their beliefs ... faith comports perfectly with reason.
This is why the Church's moved to defend life from the moment of conception (as opposed to "quickening") once it was scientifically proven the mother HAS NO MATERIAL EFFECT on and ADDS NOTHING to the complete package of genetic information necessary for the new life to develop. She merely protects and nourishes the child ... as she will for years after he is born.

I separate the issues into life support or serial killing.

********

S-cat, the term 'fertilized egg' is valid for only a short time after the sperm meets and penetrates the oocyte. Within hours (minutes in most cases) the oocyte no longer exists because the 23 chromosomes of each gamete have combined to form a new entity of 46 chromosomes in a single cell you know is called a zygote. The woman's body may flush this zygote naturally, or by chemically induced means. It is important to keep the terminology straight for the lurker ... as realpatriot71 corrected me last night to do. Sloughing an egg is not a miscarriage or an abortion; slughing purposely a zygote/embryo is abortion. Abortion, as practiced in America, is serial killing.

33 posted on 12/13/2001 9:21:33 PM PST by MHGinTN
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN
“It had nothing to do with humanity, it couldn't have; it was a mass...”

---a reference to the Holocaust by Franz Stangl, Nazi commandant of extermination camps in Sobibor (March, 1942 -September, 1942) and Treblinka (September, 1942 - August, 1943).

Interviewed by Gitta Sereny in 1970, Stangl's comments later appeared in the book Into That Darkness: An Examination of Conscience (1983).

34 posted on 12/16/2001 6:44:40 PM PST by Dr. Good Will Hunting
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson