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Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged (Who's Behind Harry Potter?)
Jeremiah Films ^ | October 2001 | Pat and Carol Matriciana

Posted on 12/12/2001 7:47:07 PM PST by jedediah smith

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To: Central Scrutiniser
Oh please, anything that even reeks in the slightest of not being according to your rigid dogmatic order on FR gets visited by you for the sole reason of condemning all of and showing how pridefully chaste you are...I knew it wouldn't take long for you to find this thread

It sounds to me like you are the one doing the judging here not me.. I have been aware of this thread since it began..and chose not to even read it..just happens I got a FR mail about it today..so I thought I would read it and there you are gossiping about me and then trying to say it was to attract my attention.Well you did and now your are crying like a baby and trying to project your actions on me.

Now that is a fair defense mechanism but in this case it is not true..

I do not care if you or other see that movie 100 times.....if you buy your kids all the Potter toys..it means nothing to me.

My inital interest in the Potter threads was to discuss the spiritual implications with christians that would want to consider them..not with those of you that are apoligists for witchcraft.

Generally I quote scripture..if you feel condemned by that your problem isn't with me..

BTW I have never said I was anything but a sinner saved by a merciful God...ya can.t have "pride" in what you can never do for yourself.

201 posted on 12/13/2001 12:12:27 PM PST by RnMomof7
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Comment #202 Removed by Moderator

Comment #203 Removed by Moderator

Comment #204 Removed by Moderator

To: Da_Shrimp; RnMomof7; Patriot76
I think the picture server is wierd. Sometimes they show and sometimes not. This is the first time I've had a problem with the pictures. I do not know why this guy is twisting the truth or even for sure if he is but I do not condone that type of deception myself.
205 posted on 12/13/2001 12:35:07 PM PST by Khepera
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To: Central Scrutiniser
Or Mr. Potato Head?......lots of I's around
206 posted on 12/13/2001 12:43:24 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Khepera
I've had problems posting pictures on FR before, too, not sure why! I can see 2out of 3 of the pics you posted now, but none before. Probably comes under the general heading of 'bloody computers!'

As for the distortion thing, I've noticed that this does tend to happen. I'm not saying it's always the author doing deliberately, but perhaps they listen to others without checking facts first. For instance, Rowling did not 'major in mythology' at Exeter. For a start, the British University system of the time had no concept of 'majoring' (you simply did a degree in a particular subject) and in fact she studied French. On another thread, a poster seemed to be implying that Rowling must have had rich parents (or implied financial backing from some unamed organisation) to afford to attend Exeter, when in fact University education in Britain at the time was completely free.

It seems that some authors distort facts for their own audience (American Christians in most of the cases I've seen, who of course don't know the British system) in order to bolster their cases.

FOr me peronally thought, the line . He wasn't aware that those in Wicca, take great joy out of seducing Christian children into Wicca is really aggravating, as it simply is not true.

207 posted on 12/13/2001 12:48:46 PM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: jedediah smith
Real magic (aka witchcraft/sorcery) involves making bargains (a la Faust) with the powers of Hell in exchange for power here on Earth.

No such bargaining occurs in the Harry Potter stories.

Therefore, there is no real magic depicted in the Harry Potter stories.

The Christian faith speaks only against real magic.

Therefore, there is nothing in the Harry Potter stories to which a Christian should object.

208 posted on 12/13/2001 12:49:45 PM PST by Don John de Austria
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To: Central Scrutiniser; Patriot76
Ah, paranoia is the final step towards delusional madness...

Well, perhaps, but there was "Sister Taffy" a few weeks ago posting articles from a church, so she(?) could troll for hits on her web page. Her whole purpose was to make fun of Christians. Enough of us complained and she got booted. But her post was from a "real" church web site. You couldn't know her true intent without hitting her web site.

209 posted on 12/13/2001 12:57:28 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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Comment #210 Removed by Moderator

To: Central Scrutiniser
No, that is a parody site, the Landover Baptist Church

No, it wasn't Landover. I went to the church site she posted. It was basically legit...

211 posted on 12/13/2001 1:10:14 PM PST by Ward Smythe
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To: elbucko
... Hipshot Percussion...

Wow, now there's a name I haven't thought of or heard for years...

212 posted on 12/13/2001 1:34:04 PM PST by CubicleGuy
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Comment #213 Removed by Moderator

To: Da_Shrimp
I don't think I have "twisted " anything..I do not know anything about the author....and only what I have read here on FR pro and con on Potter..But I do know what the word of God says about witchcraft.
Now to some people that is important. Others do not care what the bible says .

I have posted scripture and addressed this as a spiritual decision..

The world is full of evil..so this is but a small piece of a much larger picture.Those that wish to avoid evil,and be obedient to the word of God will and those that do not mind it won't..

Clear choice.

214 posted on 12/13/2001 1:41:54 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: jedediah smith
Potter author J.K. Rowling claims to have come up with the idea for Harry Potter while on a cruise. But given the fact that she is British, that Britain has rampant witchcraft and occult activity, and that the British monarchy are avowed satanists and Committee of 300 members, this seems to be just a cover story. Instead Harry Potter appears to be just one more battle in a long war by Britain and the Olympians on America's (and the world's) Christian worldview. This assault really accelerated with the British export of satanic rock groups to America in the sixties

If this doesn't merit tin-foil man's approval, nothing will.

215 posted on 12/13/2001 1:42:21 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: RogueIsland
I thought you had to cover your head with tinfoil to block the mind control rays.
216 posted on 12/13/2001 1:48:48 PM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I thought you had to cover your head with tinfoil to block the mind control rays.

Tin foil man's iron will prevents him from falling victim to the insidious mind control rays of the trilateralists (although he had some trouble with some of the Ultra Low Frequency stuff the Freemasons were using some time back). Besides, he doesn't want to muss the hair. You have any idea how much it costs to coif that heroic mane?

217 posted on 12/13/2001 2:00:59 PM PST by RogueIsland
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To: RnMomof7
With respect, I never meant to imply that you personally had. You post very much from the heart and from what you believe, which is as it should be.

My beef was with the some Christian authors who Christians may look to for guidance and advice, who distort and tell lies, thus decieving their own audience. I just wondered what your opinion of this was, that's all and I did not mean to cause you any personal offence. Regards Mike

218 posted on 12/13/2001 2:02:58 PM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: strela
The rest of the article is full of the same misstatements, errors, and outright lies. These people desperately need lives.

I haven't read a single "HP promotes witchcraft" article that wasn't full of similar errors. It has to make me wonder if half the people writing diatribes actually read the books.

219 posted on 12/13/2001 2:52:41 PM PST by Exigence
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Comment #220 Removed by Moderator

To: Exigence
I haven't read a single "HP promotes witchcraft" article that wasn't full of similar errors. It has to make me wonder if half the people writing diatribes actually read the books.

Right in one, sir or madam. The basic factual errors and misspellings in the plot 'synopsis' I documented sure indicates a second-hand retelling of spoken rumor to a Web Person/typist to me.

Inside Kook Central

"Blast and balderdash! Our petty cash fund is running low - I had to threaten to excommunicate the pizza boy to get him to leave the bread sticks this time! OK, here's what we do: This "Larry Patter" thing is popular now, right? My second cousin's brother's milkman's kid once read one of those books, and I saw him with an OPEN safety pin around his nose the other day. So, that's how we spin it - Larry Patter is Satan returned, the stories tell the kiddies how to turn Mom and Dad into snail darters, blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda. The marks'll eat it up and its cha-ching! time at the bank!

OK, bring in that little wastoid and get him to give us a quick synopsis of the Patter books. I'll pay the bill so we can put up the web page again ... damn it, WHERE'S THAT PHONE NUMBER?"

221 posted on 12/13/2001 4:52:08 PM PST by strela
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To: DaisyCutter
"Satan is a *Christian* invention, witches (wiccans and pagans) don't even believe in the existance of Satan."

This is why I separated witches and wiccan/neo-pagans in my statement.

First, Satan is not a Christian invention. The idea of a specific adversary to God is found in pre-Christian Judeism. It is also found in Persian Mithraism, and a number of other religions and folklores around the world. It is not found in Graco/Roman mythology, where the gods fight among themselves, but in Germanic myth, the gods are opposed by the giants, and Loki (Logi, Ignis) one of the Asgardians (and a firegod) sides with the giants at Ragnorok, making Loki a Satan cognate. (Many North European folktales about encounters with the Devil have parallels to Old Norse folktales about encounters with Loki) Irish Celtic myth has the demi-god-like Tuatha da Daanan fighting with the demon-like Formorians. So the concept of a once devine being or creature turning away from good to become the leader of evil is not a Christian concept only.

Wiccans may not believe in Satan (or they may, it depends on the cult), but none deny that there are Satanists out there, whom they may regard as deluded or evil or both. And the 'witches' that were persecuted in the 14th through the 17th Centuries were persecuted because they were (or were believed to be) a Satanic cult. Thus witchcraft is a religion which worships the Devil in return for the granting of certain magical powers. (I have never understood why the wiccans adopted the term for themselves, and then tried to deny that 'witch' really meant what it has meant in the English language for over 1000 years.) On the other hand, wiccans and some neo-pagans also attempt to gain magical powers through the worship/performance of religious rites in honor of supernatural beings. Since in the theology of some Christians, the supernatural is divided into God and his Angels on one hand, and the Devil and all his works on the other, any worship of supernatural creatures other than God is at best mistaken veneration of Angelic beings, or devil worship, by definition.

All of which is irrelevant to the Harry Potter fictional universe, because I have yet to hear of an example of an occasion in the books when Harry (or any other character) *worships* a supernatural entity to gain magical powers. (Invoking a subernatural spirit, and binding it to one's service via spells, doesn't count. That is a completely different brand of wizardry) So the books have nothing to do with witchcraft, save for the use of the word to describe the curriculum at Hoggwarts.
222 posted on 12/13/2001 8:23:12 PM PST by VietVet
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To: strela
any more quotes from MONTY PYTHON????
223 posted on 12/13/2001 9:42:24 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: ~EagleNebula~
Pythonnet has a ton of 'em.
224 posted on 12/13/2001 9:45:50 PM PST by strela
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To: RnMomof7
RE: post #150...... It is stated. What is to argue with? Moses declared it a rod, and not a snake to turn into a stiff snake, and back into a hungry one! I wonder what / where that person's source was, anyway! Hmmmm! I would think that if it had been a snake in his hand he would have answered God accordingly! There will always be nay-sayers, eh, RnMom?

So what "trick" was it that turned the water to blood? Someone killed a dinasour upstream? and then went around adding dye #4 to everyone else's drinking water? ::giggle:: sorry, but that really was an absurd attempt to explain it away. (re. snake / rod) If they want to believe it, it is, of course their choice! God has given them free will.

225 posted on 12/13/2001 9:59:53 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Central Scrutiniser
You see, behind your back would be via private e-mail....

AH! now there is a revelation! OOPS! someone let that slip in the first 50 posts! "Check you FReep mail" /sarcasm

226 posted on 12/13/2001 10:05:05 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: GW in Ohio
Do you sincerely believe the Pokemon are part of some sinister plot to brainwash our kids?

now that you have a grip on yourself...... i think you under-estimate the subtlety of the enemy. in so doing you open yourself up to easy attack.

227 posted on 12/13/2001 10:11:31 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Patriot76
Anyone who is on welfare (and takes a cruise while on welfare!) gets a slap from me, but if you really think that you can get a job while having a degree in French (or most other liberal arts majors like "philosophy" or "music"), you're deluded!

"Son, have you thought about your career plans?"
"Yeah, Dad, I want to be a rock music star."
"Son, you know that's not very realistic."
"I know, if it fails, I want to be a model."

228 posted on 12/13/2001 10:14:22 PM PST by Nataku X
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To: Wm Bach
define CALIVINIST.
229 posted on 12/13/2001 10:22:52 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Wm Bach
That's just what the fundie hellwishers say when they see the souls of Harry Potter fans entering the pearly gates along with most everyone else who ever loved their neighbor.

Putting words in someone's mouth? I don't recall reading a post that put Harry Potter readers either in hell or heaven. Did I miss a post on this thread?

230 posted on 12/13/2001 10:25:57 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Da_Shrimp; Ward Smythe
Thanks for catching the mis-information, and straightening it out.
231 posted on 12/13/2001 10:34:37 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: jedediah smith
I really have only 2 words to say. THANK YOU!!! Harry Potter is a witchcraft bottled up in what is seemlessly a harmless fashion. I for one am boycotting the books and the movie. I invite any of you who care to join me.
232 posted on 12/13/2001 10:38:06 PM PST by Udycus
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To: Wm Bach
ROFLMBO!! Re post #191!! It is late (or early, depending on your perspective!) and I saw the pics before I read the connection. I was puzzling, and then read "spiritual ties"! OOOOHHHH! LOLOLOL Loved the humor in it!!! But then, I like word plays and puns.
233 posted on 12/13/2001 10:38:55 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Da_Shrimp
"those in Wicca, take great joy out of seducing Christian children into Wicca is really aggravating, as it simply is not true."

Seriously? Then how is it that a woman who started a Wicca church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, came and spoke to a group of people about how the Christian youth is lured, or seduced into it? Or are you arguing and aggravated at the use of the word joy? Just wondering what your perspective is on it.

234 posted on 12/13/2001 10:50:06 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: Don John de Austria
It is your choice to make, and you may choose to justify it any way you like.
235 posted on 12/13/2001 10:51:48 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: ~EagleNebula~
Huh? Up Harry!!!!LOL
236 posted on 12/13/2001 11:18:42 PM PST by col kurz
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To: Patriot76
I posted:

"She is well-educated, having studied in both France and England"

You posted:

On another thread, a poster seemed to be implying that Rowling must have had rich parents (or implied financial backing from some unamed organisation) to afford to attend Exeter, when in fact University education in Britain at the time was completely free.

Who is distorting?

I wasn't quoting you though, was I? I was talking about another poster on another thread who was on about about Exeter University and how Rowling could have afforded it. England is part of Britain, at least for now.

I assume Rowling studied in France after her degree was finished: this is something quite common in language students, you know.

237 posted on 12/13/2001 11:26:39 PM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: jedediah smith
Ah, how many of you brave Christian warriors opposed to Harry are going up aginst the Talaban and Al-Quida? Ha, you cowardly pukes, seek out the real enemy of mankind and Christianity, Islam.......Semper Fi
238 posted on 12/13/2001 11:27:12 PM PST by col kurz
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To: ~EagleNebula~
Seriously? Then how is it that a woman who started a Wicca church in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, came and spoke to a group of people about how the Christian youth is lured, or seduced into it? Or are you arguing and aggravated at the use of the word joy?

Just wondering what your perspective is on it.

A Wicca church? Could you clarify further? We don't have Wicca Churches in England. Wicca in England is based on small groups of people and the idea of a 'Church' would be a complete anathema and anyone who tried to start one would be the laughing stock of the entire Wiccan community.

I've certainly never heard of the event you mentioned, more info would be appreciated.

239 posted on 12/13/2001 11:32:37 PM PST by Da_Shrimp
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To: ~EagleNebula~
I think Scholastic is a liberal commie group who decides the absolute worst trash to give to kids.

However, Scholastic does not own Pokemon, Nintendo does. And Pokemon was created in Japan. Japan isn't Christian, but they're not specifically anti-Christian in nature. That's another whole discussion, though. Besides, Pokemon has been banned, not encouraged, in schools.

I've said over and over on these threads, "realistic" TV shows and books that encourage "realistic sins" such as cussing and premartial sex and gay acceptance--like Judy Blume books, Dawson's Creek, etc., are the ones to fear. A child is much, much more likely to grow up to be a cussing whore exploring "his sexual identity" than to fly on broomsticks.

240 posted on 12/13/2001 11:39:02 PM PST by Nataku X
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To: ~EagleNebula~
RE: post #150...... It is stated. What is to argue with? Moses declared it a rod, and not a snake to turn into a stiff snake, and back into a hungry one! I wonder what / where that person's source was, anyway! Hmmmm! I would think that if it had been a snake in his hand he would have answered God accordingly! There will always be nay-sayers, eh, RnMom? So what "trick" was it that turned the water to blood? Someone killed a dinasour upstream? and then went around adding dye #4 to everyone else's drinking water? ::giggle:: sorry, but that really was an absurd attempt to explain it away. (re. snake / rod) If they want to believe it, it is, of course their choice! God has given them free will.

They have the free will to do as they will do..they have the right to ascribe the things of God to Satan..They have the right to deny God. And God has some rights too:>)

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 Timothy 3
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Peter 2:1 2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

241 posted on 12/14/2001 4:26:53 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: col kurz; ~EagleNebula~; Udycus; Patriot76; rdavis84; mancini; my_pointy_head_is_sharp...
Please excuse my long absence from this thread. But now that the shills are through, here's some documentation for my assertions. The following excerpts come from several reports by Dr. John Coleman, former MI6 agent in the service of Her Majesty the Queen. This comes from his 1997 "Satanism Series", and first shows how America's schools were attacked:

"In this, the second part of my new report on Satanism, I hope to fill in more details of the savage cult of Satan-worship which has overtaken this country as well as [a] number of other countries in Europe and Latin America.

"I attribute the rise of Satan-worship in the U.S. to the time when…prayer and religious observances were banned from schools by the Supreme Court, notably by those judges whom Roosevelt packed the Court's benches with, chief among whom was Justice Hugo Lafayette Black…

"PRAYER AND BIBLE READING WERE ALWAYS PART AND PARCEL OF PUBLIC SCHOOL LIFE. That is until 1962, when the "Engel" and 1963 Everson vs. Board of Education majority decision was written by Justice Hugo Black, one of the most biased anti-Christian judges ever to disgrace the bench of the Supreme Court.

"…Black's whole reasoning was an epitome of shallow legal precedents and hatred of Christianity, which he frequently expressed in a vocal parody of the Christian hymn, 'What a wonderful change in my life has been wrought, since Jesus came into my heart.'

"The Hugo Black version, with which he regaled his fellow anti-Christian judges by singing it through his nose, went like this: 'How tedious and tasteless the hours when Jesus came into my life.'

This information came from his son, Hugo Jr., whom he ordered to burn a selected portion of his papers after his death, the one and only time that parts of a Supreme Court Judge's papers were willfully destroyed. According to his son, 'practically the first thing Daddy wanted me to do once he was installed in [the] hospital, was to go out and burn certain papers of his.' One wonders why Black was so anxious about his papers?…For further details of the anti-Christian character of Justice Hugo Black, I recommend the book 'My Father, a Remembrance' by Hugo Black Jr…

"Black did more to turn Christian America toward Satanism than any other legal figure in history. Careful research on my part shows that since he ordered prayers and Bible reading removed from school curricula, school misbehavior went from such things as chewing gum, talking in class, running in hallways, wearing non-acceptable clothing and getting out of turn in lines to an almost 400% rise in sexual activity by 15-year old girls, resulting in pregnancies in this group standing at an increase of nearly 600%, murder, suicide, rape, gang violence, and a 500% rise in sexually contracted diseases.

"Perhaps the most distressing of all statistics is that of suicides, especially in the age group of 15- 19…Suicide among teenagers is DIRECTLY related to Satanism, promoted by decadent drug-ridden amoral rock bands and their promoters…

"Most of the Tavistock-Institute created 'rock stars' advocate being 'born again into the family of Satan' through suicide. In many instances, suicide is encouraged by explicit 'lyrics,' and in others by the use of subliminal messages…"

Regarding the Royal family's interest in satanism, etc. Coleman says the following in this report [In light of the Moslems attack upon the U.S. this very interesting]:

"As I said in the beginning of this update, Satanism has long been firmly rooted in England. By now most of those who are interested in the subject, know that Prince Charles has Satanist-Illuminati tools which he uses in his Satanic rituals. On the night of February 1994, [sic] Jesuit snatch squads broke into St. James' Palace and made off with some of the Prince's accouterments. What they were looking for was the hand of John the Baptist said to be locked in another part of the palace.

"The big question in England is, 'will Prince Charles be the next king of England?' The issue has not yet been decided but should Charles ascend the throne, we can expect unbridled occultism to spread across the world. Charles says the British government has failed to protect its people but does not say from what? On the other hand, the people in the best position to know say that what is needed is a ruler to protect the British people from Satanism. Cromwell was such a leader and the oligarchists fear that another Cromwell will arise from the people and set back their timetable…

"In tracing occultism and Satanism in England we have to go back to the time of John Dee, astrologer to Queen Elizabeth I. Dee was the first Don at Trinity College and there would have been no modern occultism without his work. Charles is said to have been thoroughly indoctrinated with 'secrets' which he believes will be the mainstay of his life when he becomes King…

"Aleister Crowley was a disciple of Dee although British intelligence was 'turned' toward the Satanic doctrine of Sufiism, that mystical branch of Islam which tainted the Middle East Arab Desk from the days of Lawrence of Arabia. Since British intelligence answers only to the House of Windsor and the House of Windsor is steeped in the Black Arts, we have to presume that Satanism is likely to enjoy a bold upsurge if Charles succeeds his mother.

"Charles is a confirmed occultist who believes he is a reincarnation of Hitler. Hitler was a good painter, and so is Charles. Both men suffered from apoplectic rages and like Hitler, Charles has a very troubled history in relationships with women. In the case of the prince, his early indoctrination into Templarism is said to be the reason for this, although his marriage was doomed from the start because of his Sufi mystic beliefs…

"Researchers from other countries often come up against the obstacle presented by the manner in which London is divided into two distinct cities, one, the City of London, financial, the other, Westminster, political, when looking into the disintegration of the Anglican Church (The Church of England). They get as far only as encountering the fact that Sufiism, the mystic faith of a minority of Muslims has invaded the Church through its hierarchy, of which Prince Charles is a noteworthy example. One notable church official near the top of the hierarchy advised that the way to ease the money worries of the C.of E. was to take the problem to the Oracle of Delphi. The 'money worries' he was referring to arose from a split engineered between the City of London's generous contributions to Church funds and the Westminster government ruled by Freemasonry and Illuminism. The split became an open break when a Church commission published a paper describing the rise of Freemasonry in high government posts.

"Satanism and Illuminism flourish in the publishing business. Much of the publishing industry is unprofitable by design and its chief usefulness is that it is a valuable tool for the spread of disinformation. Freelance writer[s] are used for this purpose by MI6 which has created a disinformation network far greater and more effective than anything ever achieved by Stalin's Russia and Hitler's Germany. In the area of Satanism, the trick is to on the one hand deny that Satan exists and on the other to publish accounts of how Charles is hooked on the occult.

"The murder of MI6 agent and spy-stuff writer James Rusbridger is an example of what is meant here. Rusbridger was found hanged from a series of ropes and dressed in oilskin slicks in a ritual hanging only understood by a few of MI6's top agents. Fearing disaffection, the press was used to spread the story that Rusbridger was a rightwing fanatic who had never worked for MI6. This is the stock line used to discredit any former agent who might 'go rogue.'…"

Now here are some excerpts from Dr. Coleman's 1998 report "The British Royal Family":

"The Society of Carpocrates which has a direct link to Queen Elizabeth Guelph (Windsor) is indeed alive in the highest echelons of power in Washington, which, in my opinion, is behind the uncanny almost- demonic ability of the Clinton Administration to lie its way out of any situation, no matter how blatantly guilty they appear to be to the general public. The performance of the Democrat members of the Senate's Thompson Committee, in my opinion, falls into this category.

"[The] Round Table's elite membership firmly believes in witchcraft and the Black Magic of Egypt. If you think that the Round Table is just one of your philanthropic clubs, think again! Baron Harold Anthony Caccia is the most important Round Tabler in the world. He has actively undermined US influence among the Arab nations of the Middle East, using 'The Party of God' (the Hizbollah), the Druzes, the Amala and the Antioch Society, for this purpose. Caccia is also the leader of an inner-circle coterie of friends of Elizabeth Guelph (Elizabeth II) inside the prostituted 'Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem', which is run by British intelligence MI6 in its international branches and MI5 at home in England…

"What of Prince Charles and his possibility of ascending to the throne? This is a bit more complex and I shall come back to the subject, which may possibly have a bearing on why his marriage to Princess Diana failed…

"The role of Gnostics in the life of Prince Charles was revealed in a book by John Dale, The Prince and the Paranormal: The Psychic Bloodlines of the Royal Family." Dale shows that Gnosticism plays an important role in the spiritual beliefs of Prince Charles, which Dale says, 'has turned Britain into the occult capital of the Western world. Paranormal practices which are illegal in other countries can be promoted without hindrance.'

"It is impossible to measure the influence of Prince Charles in the exporting of Gnosticism to the US but there is some evidence that the wildfire spread of this contagion of the spirit can be attributed to the interest of Charles in the subject. On November 2, 1986, the respected German magazine "Bild amd Sontag" suggested that Charles renounce his claim to the throne because of his practices and beliefs. It is said to the THE problem his mother is wrestling with, and which has to be decided before his older son, Prince William reaches the age of 18. Although Dale does not dare to go near the subject, there is some talk in intelligence sources that if Charles prevails, the likelihood of his elder son being ritually murdered at the age of 18 is strong.

"Author Dale writes that Charles was recruited into Jungian psychology and that the House of Windsor is itself riven through with psychic activities…

"Dale states that Charles is flirting with a constitutional crisis by expressing this views that 'the world's religions each contain a relative truth, rather than an absolute one…Jung made a great deal of sense in many, many areas.' Will a British public accept as a future king a man who holds view they deem strange and questionable paranormal beliefs, a super-ecumenicist?

"In the first instance, if Charles tries to put his beliefs to everyday use, he would certainly fall foul of the Act of Settlement, passed in 1701, and to which the House of Windsor is bound and which his views constitute a gross violation. What must be remembered is that the Act of Settlement is a law, which forbids the monarchy from coming to any agreement with the Catholic Church or indeed violating the rules of the Anglican Church in any way whatsoever.

"The Act says that the monarchy MUST uphold and defend the Protestant Christian religion and not any other belief of beliefs. Queen Elizabeth is the head of the Anglican Church, and as leader of the sovereign nation of Great Britain, the Queen and her family are lawfully bound to uphold the tenets of Christianity. A departure from this agreement would place the entire House of Windsor in jeopardy. This is the REAL AND ONLY REASON why the Queen will not step down and allow Charles to succeed her. On the other hand, both Charles and his mother have the problem of Diana's son to contend with, and according to reports, she will soon have to choose between William and Charles.

If Charles won't publicly denounce his views about the Gnostic Jung, then he will definitely fall foul of the Anglican Church, which in spite of its almost total penetration by the very same forces that control Charles, is obliged to publicly uphold and defend Christianity. Charles is on record as having espoused Jung's ideas in a speech he made at Harvard University in September of 1986 when he said that the 'mad rush to scientific and technological progress must be replaced by a curriculum of "natural psychology" to take the place of religion.'

"The fascination for Jung, which Charles has displayed on numerous occasions, would most certainly be brought up by the Anglican Church because as is well-known, Jung is credited with a great revival of gnosticism embodied in the statement he made that 'the God who made the world is evil.' Bishop Stephan Hoeller wrote a great book on Gnosticism, 'Jung the Gnostic' which is very well worth reading if we want to get a bearing on where Prince Charles' spiritual beliefs actually lie and what conflict they would raise with the Anglican Church if he ascended the throne.

"The question of who will succeed Elizabeth II has yet to be decided. Before her demise, Princess Diana expressed in the most positive terms that her son was fit to succeed his grandmother, whereas it was 'patently obvious'--she said, that Charles with his mystical and sexual proclivities, was not. Diana said this in her off-camera remarks when she was interviewed by the French newspaper Le Monde. During the interview she lashed out at the royal family and British oligarchial personalities. Queen Elizabeth was said to have been deeply angered by Diana's attacks, and when the Queen is this deeply angered, she has always taken active steps to correct what is annoying her.

"In the book, Crown and Concubine author N.H. Merton likens the issues surrounding the succession to the throne as a 'satanic conspiracy in which should Prince Charles have his way, would reduce the world to everlasting bestiality.' Prince Charles believes in 'democracy' but the 'democracy' he envisions is far from what is generally understood by the ordinary meaning of the word. In my view the type of 'democracy' envisioned by Prince Charles is based on the 'divine right of kings' where British intelligence MI6 will enforce what Charles decrees for the British nation and that means also for large parts of the world--including the United States--where MI6 reigns supreme and quickly puts 'out of their misery' any bold enough to challenge the dictates of the monarchy.

"If Charles does succeed his mother, it will not really change very much as the House of Windsor has a long history of involvement with the dark side, the black arts; a long tradition with the Venetian Black Nobility to which the House of Windsor is firmly attached. For instance, Prince Charles is a member of the Knights-Templar and was a member long before Diana came upon the scene. It was her husband's membership of that order with its rituals that bedeviled the simple young girl…

"In the book, The Crown and the Concubine it is stated:
'The Prince and his supporters now want William ritually slaughtered when he reaches the age of eighteen on the first summer solstice of the millenium. This is because Charles realizes that he's unlikely to become King if he allows his first-born to live beyond the age of maturity. The Queen Mother and her entourage wish to have William secretly deified as "Sol Invictus--the Sun God"--on the same date. It is not yet clear which faction will win out in this battle because the Queen who will make the final decision on the matter, has yet to come down exclusively in favor of one side or the other.'

[Snip]

"The Queen's Protector of the Faith of the Anglican Communion--appointed by the Knights of the Garter, gave her access to what all religious bodies were doing-information not available to the Parliament or ministers of the Crown. This also gave her a strong hold over Archbishop Runci at a time when he was attempting to go his own way, before he got jerked back sharply. The Queen then enlisted his aid in undercutting Mrs. Thatcher's efforts to establish a block between the then KGB and the Russian Orthodox Church on the one hand, and the Anglican Church on the other and the Queen's efforts to bring about such a union.

"Not that the Queen is an Anglican. Far from it. How could she be when she approved of Black Nobility Bishop Hugh Montifiore who believes that Christ was a homosexual, and Bishop David Jenkins who once said of the resurrection of Christ, 'it is nothing but a conjuror's trick with bones.' Neither Montifiore or Jenkins were rebuked by the Queen, whose noble duty it was, so to do. Remember this the same Queen of England who took the Oath of the Presenting of the Bible, led by the Archbishop, thusly:
'Our gracious Queen: to keep your Majesty ever mindful of the Law of the Gospel as the Rule for the whole life and government of Christian princes, we present you with this book, the most valuable thing that this world affords.'

"By failing to rebuke Montifiore and Jenkins, the Queen laid herself open to be charged with betrayal of her oath and possible removal under the Act of Settlement. The Queen was garnering support to cut off any attempt by her enemies to invoke the Act of Settlement of 1701. Her relationship with Archbishop Runci is said to have violated this ancient law. The Act of Settlement of 1701 was passed to prevent the monarch making any changes to the Anglican creed, and Elizabeth had ordered several major changes, change which were enacted by Lord Louis Mountbatten, said to be the power behind the Rev. Canon Herbert Montague Waddam's slashing denunciation of the Book of Genesis in the Old Testament."

242 posted on 12/14/2001 10:57:15 AM PST by jedediah smith
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To: mancini
Thanks for that very interesting observation. I haven't heard of Potter in that movie, but a friend of mine said that he saw the Harry Potter character somewhere else 10 or 15 years ago.
243 posted on 12/14/2001 10:59:41 AM PST by jedediah smith
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To: rdavis84
Really struck a nerve, huh? A wounded animal is most dangerous.
244 posted on 12/14/2001 11:01:59 AM PST by jedediah smith
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To: jedediah smith
A bit later I'll flag those that REALLY got their nose out of joint about using the words satanic and royal family in the same thread. I'm kinda sadistic.:-)
245 posted on 12/14/2001 11:18:10 AM PST by rdavis84
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To: rdavis84
Thanks, it will be interesting to see how they deny this.

You know, aside from the spiritual aspects of this "debate," no one has yet to explain how one company should have a monopoly on selling school material to the entire United States educational system. And furthermore, the company is largely foreign-owned. This is supposed to be a time of patriotism-where are all the patriots out there?

If Harry Potter was just about teaching children to read, then why is Scholastic selling cassette tapes of the books for children to listen to, much less making movies about it?

246 posted on 12/14/2001 11:31:25 AM PST by jedediah smith
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To: jedediah smith
Is bonney prince William 18 yet?
247 posted on 12/14/2001 12:14:32 PM PST by rdavis84
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To: jedediah smith
If Harry Potter was just about teaching children to read, then why is Scholastic selling cassette tapes of the books for children to listen to, much less making movies about it?

Because they can make LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of MONEY?

Or is that motive a wee bit TOO obvious?

248 posted on 12/14/2001 12:17:17 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: Da_Shrimp
A Wicca church? Could you clarify further? We don't have Wicca Churches in England. Wicca in England is based on small groups of people and the idea of a 'Church' would be a complete anathema and anyone who tried to start one would be the laughing stock of the entire Wiccan community.

I've certainly never heard of the event you mentioned, more info would be appreciated.

I didn't want to join, so I didn't dig further into it! ROFLMBO I know it was in the Sioux Falls paper, but the date I am unsure of. I know it was state she was starting a Wicca church! It has caught me very much by surprise! (Sorry. i hope when this posts it works right, in the preview the won't stop the italics!!)

249 posted on 12/15/2001 6:59:44 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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To: jedediah smith
Just speaking to a friend tonite about her daughter that plays with my 9 yr old, she talked about SCHOLATIC and how they are pushing this so hard onto the kids. I asked her about her daughter, and she said, "Come to think of it, yes! My duaghter did say the teacher was reading the book to the class." The mother was horrified to hear about the series, and want me to print out information. The churches hear are seemingly turning a deaf ear. I gave information to one of the pastors here and it seems nothing has been done.

Thanks for the added information. This is astounding! The source is reliable? I am shaking my head at this, dumb-founded.

250 posted on 12/15/2001 7:31:20 PM PST by ~EagleNebula~
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