Jewish Defense League chief arrested in L.A. (New stuff!)

Reuters ^ | 13 DEC 2001 22:32 | Arthur Spiegelman

[CommiesOut]

Jewish Defense League chief arrested in L.A.

    By Arthur Spiegelman 
    LOS ANGELES, Dec 13 (Reuters) - Relatives and lawyers for two 
Jewish Defense League members charged with plotting to bomb a 
mosque and a congressman's office said on Thursday the men were 
innocent and set up by a "crazy" man working as a confidential 
government informant. 
    Bryan Altman, the attorney for JDL chairman Irv Rubin, said 
the charges were false. "Mr Rubin has spent his entire career 
fighting terrorism. He does not perpetuate acts of terrorism. ... 
The alleged confidential informant against him is crazy, a man 
with a very troubled background. He is not a credible witness." 
He also said the charges were politically motivated. 
    Rubin, 56, who assumed leadership of the militant Jewish 
group in 1985 from its controversial founder, the late Rabbi Meir 
Kahane, is being held without bail along with one of his 
followers, Earl Krugel, 59. 
    Both men are charged with conspiring to blow up the King Fahd 
Mosque, an $8 million religious institution that opened in 1998 
in the Los Angeles suburb of Culver City, and an office of 
Southern California Republican congressman Darrell Issa, who is 
of Lebanese Christian descent. 
    In a telephone interview with Reuters, attorney Altman called 
the arrest of his client, a man long known for his pugnacious 
views and volatile temper, as a political act. 
    "This case has a political motivation. Because of the timing 
 it looks like it is aimed at appeasing the Arab world. Mr Rubin 
is not someone who has stood idly by. He is verbally and 
spiritually opposed to acts of terrorism and would never agree to 
bomb any one." 
     Barry Krugel, the brother of Earl Krugel, said he was in 
"total shock" over first the arrest and then the "high-handed 
methods" employed by law enforcement officials during a search of 
the Krugel home. 
    "We've been around for over 30 years. We're not so stupid as 
to do that," he said, referring to the JDL. He added that the 
government's confidential informant entrapped his brother and 
described the man as a "fink bastard snitch," who drifted into 
the group about a year-and-a-half ago, saying he was from the 
U.S. Navy, Krugel said. 
   "This guy was in deep with the government" and not a 
legitimate member of JDL. "No member would ever turn on a fellow 
Jew," Krugel said. 
 
    NO BOMBS DETONATED 
    Krugel and Rubin face one count each of conspiring to destroy 
a building by means of an explosive and possession of a 
destructive device during and in relation to a violent crime. If 
convicted each could face 35 years in prison. 
    In announcing the arrests on Wednesday, federal officials 
said the two men plotted with a third, a former JDL member turned 
government informant, to make and detonate bombs. The informant 
told authorities of the plot last October and agreed to wear a 
wire in his meetings with Rubin and Krugel, officials said. No 
bombs were detonated and no one was injured. 
     A complaint against the two men said that Krugel told the 
informant the bombings were necessary because "Arabs need a 
wake-up call." At that meeting Rubin added that the JDL needs to 
let people know they are "alive in a militant way." 
    The complaint added that the unnamed source was asked to 
photograph the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles and 
help purchase bomb components and that Krugel said he would build 
the bombs at his residence. The source would then place the 
explosives. 
    The source said he was first told one bomb was to be placed 
in the offices of the Muslim Public Affairs Council. He arrived 
at a meeting in suburban Encino with 5 pounds (2.2 kilos) of 
explosive powder in his vehicle ready for delivery to Krugel. 
    However at their last meeting Tuesday night, the two men said 
the bombs were instead to be placed at the Culver City Mosque and 
Issa's office. Federal agents followed and arrested the two men  
a short time after the meeting. 
    A search of Krugel's house turned up bomb making materials 
including caps, pipes and fuses and a dozen firearms. The bombs 
were adequate to cause "considerable damage" detonated and 
possibly death to people in the vicinity, officials said. 
    Asked about the weapons and bomb making materials found in 
his brother's house, Barry Krugel said, "Earl has legal weapons. 
Why should the world own guns and Jews not own weapons?" 
    "My brother owns a miniature cannon. It uses powder. So 
what," he said. 
    The JDL was founded by Kahane, who was assassinated in New 
York in 1990. Before his death he founded the extremist KACH 
party in Israel which advocated the expulsion of all Arabs from 
Israel. The party was later outlawed. 
    (Additional reporting by Sarah Tippit) 
  ((Los Angeles bureau  +1 213-380-9014 fax +1 213-622-0056)) 
   

13 DEC 2001 22:32:47

[CommiesOut]

Relatives and lawyers for two Jewish Defense League members charged with plotting to bomb a mosque and a congressman's office said on Thursday the men were innocent and set up by a "crazy" man working as a confidential government informant.

That's what I said. FBI kinda antisemitic.
Why did this hot girl Veronica call me yesterday Projector dude?

[Askel5]

Lol!

[AGAviator]

Barry Krugel, the brother of Earl Krugel, said he was in "total shock" over first the arrest and then the "high-handed methods" employed by law enforcement officials

Hey, not to worry about "high-handed methods." We're fighting terrorism. Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists.

Bwahahaha.

[BullDog108]

This whole affair does not pass the smell test. Irv was set up by another agent-provacatuer. I have known Irv for fifteen years, last saw him when we hassled the Aryan Nations wingnuts at their trial in Couer d'Alene. It will be interesting to watch the circus as it unfolds during discovery motions.

[TheDon]

set up by a "crazy" man working as a confidential government informant

Yea, those tapes of us plotting the bombing are forgeries! We never said any of that. The explosives? I don't know how all that stuff got in my home. Is Mark Furman involved? LOL!

I'm torn between believing that there really are people out there as stupid as these two appear to be, and believing the government is trying to falsify a case against them. I'm putting my money on the fact that the FBI has the goods on them. Well actually I'm putting my money on the fact that yes, there really are people that stupid out there.

[Hugin]

"This guy was in deep with the government" and not a legitimate member of JDL. "No member would ever turn on a fellow Jew," Krugel said.

So no real JDL member would turn in a "fellow Jew" if he knew he was commiting a terrorist act? Then why the hell should we believe you?

[tallhappy]

"This guy was in deep with the government" and not a legitimate member of JDL. "No member would ever turn on a fellow Jew," Krugel said.

and

Asked about the weapons and bomb making materials found in his brother's house, Barry Krugel said, "Earl has legal weapons. Why should the world own guns and Jews not own weapons?"

Notice an obsessive component to this guy's comments?

[dennisw]

This is total bullshit. You really are dumb enough to believe that these two old dudes are going to bomb something? Is this a demo of your IQ?

You have no life here at freerepublic except for the drek you can dredge up on Jews.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Is this story kosher?

[marktwain]

Yea, those tapes of us plotting the bombing are forgeries! We never said any of that. The explosives? I don't know how all that stuff got in my home.

I had a long talk with a lawyer one time about wires, especially federal wires. It turns out that you can rarely understand anything that is said on them. The FBI is notorious for having "experts" listen to the tape and then convince the jury that what was said is what is needed for conviction. They are also notorious for editing the tape to pick comments totally out of context.

I don't recall any explosives being found in the house. Just some plumbing supplies and some fuse for his muzzle loading toy cannon.

The FBI has also become one of the shopping agencies for people who want some cash and status as an informant. There are people that attempt to join a group they think they can discredit, push the group to perform illegal acts, or acts that they can characterize as illegal, and then sell the group to the FBI or others for informant fees. I saw this happen with the so called "Viper Militia" in Arizona.

Note that these people are primarily being charged with "Conspiracy", and not actually doing anything.

[TheDon]

A search of Krugel's house turned up bomb making materials including caps, pipes and fuses and a dozen firearms. The bombs were adequate to cause "considerable damage" detonated and possibly death to people in the vicinity, officials said.

Asked about the weapons and bomb making materials found in his brother's house, Barry Krugel said, "Earl has legal weapons. Why should the world own guns and Jews not own weapons?" "My brother owns a miniature cannon. It uses powder. So what," he said.

I guess we'll see what the FBI has when they get to court.

[monkeyshine]

fyi

[monkeyshine]

A search of Krugel's house turned up bomb making materials including caps, pipes and fuses and a dozen firearms. The bombs were adequate to cause "considerable damage" detonated and possibly death to people in the vicinity, officials said.

Notice how they say "bombmaking material" and then throw in the phrase "a dozen firearms". A total non-sequitor.. the firearms comment doesn't belong in that sentence at all and everyone knows the JDL is very pro 2nd Amendment.

[TheDon]

You are right on that point, but let's face it, if what the FBI says pans out in court, they are doing there job. If not, there will be plenty of time and lawsuits to straighten the mess out.

[sheik yerbouty]

I think there is a chance that Darrell Issa has some political stake in this. Let's see what the trail of evidence looks like.

[Michael2001]

Could be true, could be not, we don't really know what happened yet. It does, however, seem like he's admitting it in this part of the article:

"He added that the government's confidential informant entrapped his brother and described the man as a "fink bastard snitch...This guy was in deep with the government" and not a legitimate member of JDL. "No member would ever turn on a fellow Jew," Krugel said."

[Michael2001]

"This is total bullshit. You really are dumb enough to believe that these two old dudes are going to bomb something?"

Well obviously they're not smart enough to actually do the job; but were they dumb enough to plan it? I honestly don't know right now, there doesn't seem to be much evidence disclosed either way. What makes you sure they didn't plan it?

[DreamWeaver]

Nothing here to see folks, now just move along.

[Michael2001]

Based on the evidence we've been given, no one should be able to come to a conclusion either way. I'm not a big fan of the JDL, but I'm also not one to trust everything the government says.

Some people seem to to be jumping on this case to somehow prove their agenda. I'd be very wary of people claiming to know whether he's guilty or not (on both sides).

[dennisw]

i think it's being done so the usa doesn't seem to be just arresting muslims. this move looks good in the muslim press. the muslim world gets quite excited about jews and they will lap this story up.

i can be certain of nothing but i just can't see these two old guys doing this. they were prolly shooting their mouths off after a shot or two of wild turkey. someone wears a wire so now it becomes (literally) a federal case.

[malarski]

I have known Irv for fifteen years, last saw him when we hassled the Aryan Nations wingnuts at their trial in Couer d'Alene

A potential terrorist in our midst. I just cannot believe it.

[SJackson]

A search of Krugel's house turned up bomb making materials including caps, pipes and fuses and a dozen firearms. (and ...5 pounds (2.2 kilos) of explosive powder)
Notice how they say "bombmaking material" and then throw in the phrase "a dozen firearms". A total non-sequitor...the firearms comment doesn't belong in that sentence at all

You're right about that. I won't be surprised if these guys did it. And I won't be surprised if they were set up. But as a blackpowder shooter I've got the powder, I've got the caps, probably some pipe in the basement. I doubt I've got the fuses (thought I don't know what they are. We're going to have to wait to see the evidence on this one.

[GROUCHOTWO]

Challenging 'wingnuts' seems to be a favorite fund-raising diversion of these vigilante based groups such as the JDL, ADl, etc. What is so funny is that their opposition in many cases turns out to be neo-Nazis and KKK leaders named Cohen.

[scratchgolfer]

Could you provide some evidence of that? I have never read about Neo-Nazis who were named Cohen, or names like that.