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Vanity: What was that J. S. Mills quote last night on O'Reilly?
O'Reilly Factor Special last night ^ | 12.16.01 | Max

Posted on 12/16/2001 9:12:36 AM PST by maxwell

Question for y'all: On the O'Reilly Factor Special last night on Fox, Air Force Major Sweet (sp?) read a quote from John Stuart Mills in response to O'Reilly's question, "What answer do you have for folks who ask you why you would give your life for your country?"

That quote was fantastic but unfortunately I've burned all my short-term memory brain cells with various noxious substances including but not limited to Sharpy marker fumes. Does anybody know that particular piece that the Major read?

Thanks.

FReegards,
Max

\_/ \_/ \_/


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 12/16/2001 9:12:36 AM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
bump for answers
2 posted on 12/16/2001 9:16:11 AM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Max, you're far too intellectual for this group. Go out and run a few intervals to clear your head.
3 posted on 12/16/2001 9:18:50 AM PST by choicenotecho
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To: maxwell
please please please! I wanna put it on my profile page!
4 posted on 12/16/2001 9:18:55 AM PST by maxwell
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To: choicenotecho
Intellectual my Republican a$$... Everybody here watches O'Reilly!

Hey choice! How's it going! Missed you at the Christmas party! B. M. got the roast, like we all figured... You shoulda been there!

5 posted on 12/16/2001 9:20:31 AM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Perhaps he meant the JSM quote that I have posted on my profile page (click on RonDog at the bottom of this reply.)
"War is an ugly thing, but..."

6 posted on 12/16/2001 9:22:41 AM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
YES! That's it. If you don't mind I might follow your lead. That quote resonated so hard and just kicked a$$ bigtime. I wish more folks could see it... Especially some folks I've run into...
7 posted on 12/16/2001 9:24:20 AM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Didn't catch O'Rielly last night, but this seems appropriate: "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself." -- John Stuart Mills Hope that helps.
8 posted on 12/16/2001 9:25:36 AM PST by Wild_VoiceSF
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To: maxwell
I am rewinding my tape now. Will post it for you as soon as I am done
9 posted on 12/16/2001 9:26:17 AM PST by Native American Female Vet
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To: maxwell
Ya got my curiosity up now BUMP! !
10 posted on 12/16/2001 9:27:35 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: RonDog
Your fast!
11 posted on 12/16/2001 9:27:42 AM PST by Native American Female Vet
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To: Wild_VoiceSF; RonDog; Native American Female Vet
Yep, thanks alot, appreciate it even though I misspelled his name, haha... RonDog has the exact quote I wanted on his profile page. I appreciate it folks.
12 posted on 12/16/2001 9:28:36 AM PST by maxwell
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To: MeeknMing
Here 'tis from RonDog--

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their own free choice--is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other.
John Stuart Mill, "The Contest in America," pp. 208-09, in John Stuart Mill, Dissertations and Discussions (Boston: William V. Spencer, 1867). [bold mine]

DAMN that's good stuff.

13 posted on 12/16/2001 9:30:06 AM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Whoa! Personal safety and Freedom BUMP!! Thanks!
14 posted on 12/16/2001 9:33:33 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: maxwell
If you follow the John Stuart Mill link at the end of the quote on my profile page, you can read the LONG version.
15 posted on 12/16/2001 9:43:18 AM PST by RonDog
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To: maxwell
When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people.

That would be the Clinton years.

A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their own free choice--is often the means of their regeneration.

And this would appear to be the Bush years.

16 posted on 12/16/2001 9:43:47 AM PST by Schnucki
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To: Wild_VoiceSF
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself."

Take that, peaceniks.

17 posted on 12/16/2001 9:44:16 AM PST by pray4liberty
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To: Wild_VoiceSF
A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself."

I guess that nails Colman McCarthy and the rest of the "peace at any cost" crowd.

18 posted on 12/16/2001 9:45:46 AM PST by jackbill
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To: maxwell
That is good stuff! I just watch the documentaries about Afghanistan, Somalia and other third world countries and figure I would rather be dead than live like they do so the alternative is to do everything in your power not to be like the failed countries. Besides, I'm not ugly enough yet to hide behind a blanket.
19 posted on 12/16/2001 9:46:25 AM PST by Jaidyn
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To: bloodmeridian; CapandBall; cgk; Search4Truth; SES1066
See also the profile pages of the folks listed in the To: box of THIS reply:
Great minds think alike! ;-

20 posted on 12/16/2001 9:52:31 AM PST by RonDog
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: pray4liberty; feinswinesuksass
I originally heard about this JSM quote in a post from a shy, quiet, and very reserved (!) FReeper-ette named feineswinesuksass, who said that when she gets "give peace a chance"-type e-mails fowarded to her, she blasts them back with this quote!
22 posted on 12/16/2001 10:06:55 AM PST by RonDog
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To: maxwell
Excellent show/production by O'Reilly. We haven't stopped raving about it.

Thanks for posting this thread as I wanted a copy of that quote as well.

23 posted on 12/16/2001 10:08:13 AM PST by dansangel
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To: Wild_VoiceSF
"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety; is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better persons than himself."

This describes Bubba Blythe Klinton to a T.

24 posted on 12/16/2001 10:12:40 AM PST by VRWC For Truth
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To: RonDog
Your link leads to a really great quotes site!

FWIW, anyone who's interested can find Mill's book here and the quote in context here.

Time hallows these things, though. In 1862, Mill might have been seen as the Michael Kinsley or Bill Kristol of the day, the fire-breathing non-combattant. Today we look at him differently. The words are true enough, but it's the fact that one of the greats seems to be talking to us directly across a century and a half that gives them their resonance.

25 posted on 12/16/2001 10:31:49 AM PST by x
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To: maxwell
Thanks so much for asking about the quote......after reading it, I, too, was touched.
26 posted on 12/16/2001 11:57:10 AM PST by OldFriend
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To: OldFriend; dansangel; All
Thanks FRiends, I don't personally care if folks put up vanities all the time but I know some folks get all huffy about that... Didn't know whom else to ask though. Thanks to everybody on this thread.
27 posted on 12/16/2001 1:06:11 PM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
It was a great show, and yes, that was the quote.
28 posted on 12/16/2001 1:22:58 PM PST by Salvation
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To: maxwell
One of the things that this quote points out is how well educated our soldiers are today. It is hard to find a greater contrast between belief and reality than the image that the left has about our military. It is wonderful when someone is able to show what advancement our service people get from the various education tracks they follow.

I missed the O'Reilly special and sure hope that it is rebroadcast. It would be logcal to rerun it between Xmas and New Years because of the normal programming slack. I hope Fox is listening!

29 posted on 12/16/2001 2:11:13 PM PST by SES1066
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To: maxwell
Glad to oblige...I've been flamed for less than that and know how it feels.

Have a good evening.

30 posted on 12/16/2001 2:12:43 PM PST by dansangel
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To: maxwell
There are vanities and then there are vanites.....this was something we need to treasure. I printed it and have it on the bulletin board under my picture of Bush and Cheney. Sure wish I had a picture of Rummy!!!
31 posted on 12/16/2001 3:20:10 PM PST by OldFriend
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To: RonDog
You are too kind, Sir!
32 posted on 12/16/2001 7:16:09 PM PST by CapandBall
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To: x
Your link leads to a really great quotes site!

FWIW, anyone who's interested can find Mill's book here and the quote in context here.

Time hallows these things, though. In 1862, Mill might have been seen as the Michael Kinsley or Bill Kristol of the day, the fire-breathing non-combattant. Today we look at him differently. The words are true enough, but it's the fact that one of the greats seems to be talking to us directly across a century and a half that gives them their resonance.

Wow! I like YOUR site, too!
From Making of America:



33 posted on 12/17/2001 9:23:33 AM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog, feinswinesuksass
I originally heard about this JSM quote in a post from a shy, quiet, and very reserved (!) FReeper-ette named feineswinesuksass, who said that when she gets "give peace a chance"-type e-mails fowarded to her, she blasts them back with this quote!

My. That would be the equivalent of an elegant nuke. I think I'll jump on the bandwagon, with Feinswinesuksass's permission, and do the same.

34 posted on 12/17/2001 12:35:38 PM PST by bloodmeridian
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To: bloodmeridian; Feinswinesuksass
My. That would be the equivalent of an elegant nuke. I think I'll jump on the bandwagon, with Feinswinesuksass's permission, and do the same.
I am CERTAIN that she will approve!
Since she seems to be off-line for a while, though, I found her her original post:

Here is what I have been tortured with by liberal friends...actually I tortured them with my reply.

They sent this:

For myself this is the clearest commentary on the situation in the world today.

"When a man is not in strife within himself, then he does not create strife outwardly. The inward strife, projected outwardly, becomes the world chaos. After all, war is a spectacular result of our everyday living: and without transformation in our daily existence, there is bound to be the multiplication of soldiers, drills, the saluting of flags and all the rubbish that goes with it.

The way of peace is simple. It is the way of truth and love. It starts with the individual himself. Where the individual accepts his responsibility for war and violence there peace finds a foothold. To go far one must begin near and the first actions are within. The sources of peace are not outside us and the heart of man is in his own keeping. To have peace we must be peaceful. To put an end to violence each one must voluntarily free himself from the causes of violence. Diligently one must put himself to the task of self-transformation. Our minds and hearts must be simple, creatively empty and watchful. Then only love can come into being. Love alone can bring peace to the world and only then the wold will know the bliss of the real. The way of peace."
Krishnamurti

So I sent this:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
~~ John Stuart Mill ~~

That started a quite a flurry of emails.....I may have to post some responses.

107 posted on 9/27/01 6:28 PM Pacific by feinswinesuksass


35 posted on 12/17/2001 1:45:43 PM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
Shy? MOI???
Shirley, you jest!

Merry Christmas RonDog!

36 posted on 12/17/2001 2:28:58 PM PST by Feiny
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To: bloodmeridian
Permission granted.

I have since deleted the vicious ramblings that I received in response. Too bad, some were classic.

37 posted on 12/17/2001 2:31:17 PM PST by Feiny
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To: feinswinesuksass
Shy? MOI???
Shirley, you jest!

Merry Christmas RonDog!

Re: "shy" - I THOUGHT that charcterization would amuse you.
Re: Merry Christmas - Ho, ho, ho! back at ya!
And don't call me Shirley! ;o)

38 posted on 12/17/2001 4:19:22 PM PST by RonDog
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