US investigating whether nukes in country

Washington Times ^ | 12/20/01 | RICHARD SALE

[katze]

There you are. Where's the proof that former President Bush committed treason, other than your wild charge? This has been on for quite some time, and I think it is time you back up your ridiculous charge.

[Nita Nupress]

I haven't stated my opinion on the article.

I'm just here to make comments on the sideshow. :)

[Nita Nupress]

Would someone please flag me back to this thread if anyone posts information about red mercury or the alleged smuggling incident into Israel? Thank you.

[katze]

So, do you think former Pres Bush committed treason? You might at least give an opinion on that.

I'm going offline for a but, but I'll be back.

[Poohbah]

If I catch it, I will ping you...

[Poohbah]

Ah, Paddie me lad, you're starting to lose the bubble...I will once again ask those questions you seem to dislike so intensely...

How is it that "red mercury" can simultaneously undergo a huge increase in its enthalpy (heat content), use that heat to do useful work (compress deuterium and tritium beyond the point where a fusion reaction begins), and experience zero change in its entropy coefficient (i.e., it does not change its volume), as Sam Cohen describes? This would appear to be a gross violation of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics.

Does the Department of Energy ship neutron bombs via FedEx, as Sam Cohen claims they did in this case?

What was the exact date of the Los Alamos event you cited? Please provide independent verification of a high-energy event that meets the parameters of such an event occuring on that date. Additionally, please explain why such a test would be conducted at Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) and not the Department of Energy Nuclear Test Site (NTS) in Mercury, Nevada. With the exception of the 1971 Cannikin test of the Spartan ABM warhead, which was held at Amchitka Island in the Aleutians, the NTS was host to almost every US nuclear test conducted after 1963, and every test conducted after 1973. Surely, the NTS would be far more able to host such a test and aid in gathering useful data than LANL.

I'm just looking to get some confirmation of the existence of "red mercury" as described by Sam Cohen. You have yet to demonstrate any part of your case.

[OKCSubmariner]

For katze reply #86:

Let me list a few other treasonous acts I believe (opinion) former Presdent Bush committed while President and Vice-President:

1.Knowingly giving Saddam and Iraq weapons of mass destruction before the Gulf War including biological chemical and NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

2.Giving the Russians tech details of the US SDI (missile defense) program in the 1980s

3.Giving the Russians US nuke bomb tech in the 1980s.

4.Giving the Chinese US nuke bomb tech (including the neutron bomb) in the 1980s.

5.Unilaterally disarming the US of many valuable nuclear weapons and delivery systems in 1991 including the US neutron bomb.

6.Lying about and covering up and threatening and smearing those who knew about and investigated items 1-4 including Army intelligence and Congress.

7. Gave plastic explosives to Libya via the Ed Wilson & the CIA.

8. Engaged in illegal drug trafficking at Mena, Arkansas and other sites around the world and inside the US.

The last time I checked no one in Congress succeeded in getting effective action taken against CLinton or Bush for their treasonable acts involving Mena over drugs and China and Russia over nuclear weapons. I believe there is evidence available to be weighed in a court of law and in a Senate trial on all these matters but I do not believe it will ever happen.

My opinion remains that former President Bush committed acts of treason against America while he was President.

I am not running for office, I am not writing a book and I am not in a court of law. I did not write an article for publication or even an official editorial. I freely give out my opinion at coffee shops and barber shops and even on the FreeRepublic-imagine that! And I hear others giving out opinions similar to mine at all the same places.

I pay my taxes and I served my country honorably in the military.

I am free to write my opinion that Bush was a traitor to America while President in my replies on FR. He can be publicly criticized and called a traitor for acts during his term as President since he was a public figure.

I also vote my opinions. I do not respect your not respecting my right of free speech (that is my opinion in case you do not know the difference yet).

BTW, Sam Cohen did claim that he believed Bush gave the neutron bomb to the Chinese, that the Russians tested a mini nuke at LosAlamos, and that he believes red mercury exists. I have provided the basis that Cohen made those claims. It is your burden and Poohbah's burden to decide whether or not you want to believe or disbelieve Cohen.

Also ample basis has been provided on this thread about Bush giving Iraq and Saddam weapons of mass destruction (that is treason if you still do not get it) which you and Poohbah conveniently ignore.

I have noticed that many times when you (like Poohbah) do not agree with someone's information (basis) or opinion you ignore it, pretend it does not exist and claim no basis was provided.

You will not succeed in preventing me from expressing my view that former President Bush was a traitor or preventing other people from ageeing with me who have the same opinion. There are many who for many years agree with me on FR and not on FR that former President Bush was a traitor while Presient and Vice -President. Guess you will have to put up with it.

What will you do if any of this shows up in a history book? A former President's legacy is important to him especially if he is vain. It is a fact of history which will be recorded that many people held the view, wrote about and spoke about their belief that former Presdent Bush was a traitor to America.

[ninenot]

that my country may very well be brought to its knees

You will pardon my rude response--it is not exactly directed at you.

IN NO WAY DO I KNEEL BEFORE ANYONE BUT GOD and if one of those things go off, there will be a lot less Muslims in my area, after I and a lot of my friends begin using the Old Testament formula for justice: an eye for an eye. (BTW, justice is PERFECTLY reconcilable with peace...) If someone thinks this is too nasty a message, then it will be deleted. Tough. $300.00 can buy one hell of a lot of .30-06, which are VERY deadly, too.

[Poohbah]

Ah, Paddie me lad...

First you said in Post #19 that Bush DID commit treason. You didn't use the weasel-words "in my opinion," like you did here--you just stated it as bald fact. Fast forward to Post #107, and now you're waffling and saying that it's just your opinion. You obviously decided to go with the lesser of two weasels on this issue.

Then, you essentially said, "well, I didn't really say that stuff about 'red mercury,' Sam Cohen did." Guess what, Paddie? When you go around breathlessly repeating every word out of somebody's mouth on a forum like this, those words become YOUR words, unless Sam Cohen's holding a gun to your head while you're posting. Once again, you showed a lack of intestinal fortitude at the moment of truth. And you have consistently demonstrated an unwillingness to address serious questions that you raised by posting this stuff.

For shame, Paddie.

[katze]

Are you sure you flagged everyone? LOL

Now you say it is your *opinion* that former Pres Bush committed treason. That seems to be a far cry from a direct charge that he committed treason.

I really can't speak to some of what you say gives you this opinion, except the Mena thing. Looks like you've read Terry Reed's book, but you fail to mention that it was Clinton who got the money every week from Tyson's personal pilot.

You've managed a small following, and IMO (we al have them) small wonder that you've kept them. But, I will give you credit for one thing--you're prolific with your patronization of these unsuspecting people, when you give them a public pat on the head, complimenting them on the good work they do.

I pay my taxes, too, even tho' I'm retired. I also served my country honorably, as a civilian, in a war zone. Is there a point to your comment?

You certainly are free to write your OPINION that former Pres Bush is a traitor, so long as you state it in those terms. Might be a good idea to avoid giving folks the idea that you *know* Pres Bush is a traitor, since you admit it is an OPINION. I am also free to write *my* OPINION that I believe you are a fake.

You see, there are some rather important people on this forum, and I know a few through e/FRmails, and they do not spend their time telling the forum how important they are, who they know, and what they know. Really important and knowledgable people don't have to do that; most of us are intelligent and observant enought to figure that out on our own.

[ninenot]

Just for a moment ignoring the argument over physics and Los Alamos (as well as GBush Sr and the neutron bomb,) the simple fact that OBL and his gang have not YET used a small nuke (or a dirty nuke) does NOT mean that it will NEVER happen. Please note that from 9/11 until C4 day (12/24) was 3 1/2 months. OBL & Co. are not worried about winning immediately.

Also note interesting article in this months's American Spectator re: battle tactics. Author claims that non-Western types (e.g., OBL) tend to be undisciplined and typically use guerilla tactics--only Western military uses full-frontal heavy infantry and practices total destruction.

What I am driving at is that the fat lady ain't yet sung...and the last verse has yet to be written.

[katze]

He's said it in many posts; that's why I'm here. Pays his taxes, whoop-tee-doo, and that gives him license to accuse former Pres Bush of treason. #$^))*^!%+)^#@)

[Uncle Bill]

The US Constitution gives Congress the sole power “to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations.” [1] Therefore, a vote in favor of PNTR, which transfers that power to international bodies—an unlawful offense already committed by Congress and the president—is an abdication of duty on the part of our elected representatives, and a direct violation of their congressional oath of office. Such a vote can only be interpreted as a direct attack upon the Constitution and a signal of terminated allegiance to America (read: treason).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To the people of China:

I bring you greetings from the USA. I am a great believer in the US - China relationship. I want to see PNTR pass in the Congress. As President, I had to fight hard to keep MFN for China. Now some of the same people who fought against keeping MFN want to defeat normalizing trade with China. President Clinton and the Republican leaders in the House are doing all they can. I believe that they will win. It is important they do. I want to see more Trade between China and the USA. Good luck to all!

Signed,
George Bush

MeetChina.com, May 17, 2000

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The United States of America - China Chamber of Commerce
200 West Madison Street Suite 2000, Chicago, IL 60606
Tel: (312) 368-0430 Fax: (312) 368-0418
Email:info@usccc.org

Chairman Prescott S. Bush, Jr.
Prescott Bush Resources, Ltd

103 Posted on 06/04/2000 20:33:11 PDT by Benighted

---

LATE EDITION:Condoleeza Rice[TRANSCRIPT]
"RICE: I frankly think it's a rather bizarre claim when you consider that over the last month, Governor Bush supported the administration, supported President Clinton in permanent national -- permanent normal trade relations for China. In fact, much more supportive than Vice President Gore was."

Chinese Companies In The United States

---

"Barbara and I were gonna be farmers ... really we were" -- Bush's rendition of "Clinton's" China Policy, 1991.
A World Trade Center Discussion of Doing Business with China
Bush in Bed with Clinton and China
Conspiracy to Commit Treason
Bush, Clinton & Kissinger: Partners in Treason
Chinagate For Dummies - The Bush Connection
Chinagate for Dummies: May 1995-Feb 1998
Chinagate For Dummies - I
Chinagate For Dummies II
Chinatown

---

New York, NY -- Business Wire -- May 23, 2000 --

As the United States Congress readies for a vote that could give China Permanent Normal Trade Relations (PNTR) with the U.S. today, Chinese television will broadcast a message from former President George Bush supporting U.S.-China trade relations and encouraging a stronger relationship between the two nations. In a message sent over the Internet to the Chinese people, President Bush urged Congress to pass PNTR for China.

"I am a great believer in the US - China relationship," President Bush wrote in an email sent over MeetChina.com, China's leading business to business trade portal.

"I want to see PNTR pass in the Congress. As President I had to fight hard to keep MFN for China. President Clinton and the Republican leaders in the house are doing all they can. I believe that they will win."

The online message was written during a demonstration of the MeetChina.com trade portal, which facilitates online trade between China and the global marketplace.

Following the demonstration, former President Bush addressed a luncheon of business leaders to further voice his support for the China PNTR proposal, which comes up for vote Wednesday in the U.S. Congress.

"50 years ago China and the U.S. embarked on two different economic and political paths," said President Bush, "and now with the issue of WTO accession and trade normalization we have a chance to head in the same direction together and make up for the lost opportunities of the past."

President Bush further commented "It is absolutely essential in my view that (this bill) pass…I cannot stress enough the importance of the U.S-China trade relationship."

Guests at the luncheon included The Honorable Cheng Siwei, Vice Chairman Standing Committee, National People's Congress, People Republic of China, and H.E. Hongxi, Chinese Consul General.

---

SNOW: Is China a big threat...

BUSH: No.

SNOW: To the United States?

BUSH: It's a threat if we mishandle the relationship, but it's not a threat. China is not seeking hegemony. I see no evidence and I'd like one person that's a critic of China on the Republican right or the Democratic left to tell me why they think they're seeking hegemony.

SNOW: How do you read China's involvement in the 1996 elections, pumping all the money into the campaigns?

BUSH: Well, I don't know how much of that was Chinese government. But I headed CIA at one time, and gentlemen do read other gentlemen's mail.

SNOW: How about gentlemen reading other gentlemen's nuclear secrets?

BUSH: If the committee that's looking at this proves that our national security has been damaged by espionage, it would be a very serious matter.

SNOW: This really would change the dynamic... ?

BUSH: But not of the overall -- well now, if you could say that this was ordered by Jiang Zemin, you know, I think it would change the dynamic. But I don't think -- it's not going to finish -- it shouldn't finish off the relationship.

I think any time any secret is compromised by a country large or small, it's a matter of national security interests. This, you know, lecturing and badgering that some people are doing with China, just is out of touch. I lived in China. There are more human rights and individual liberties in China today, than by far than when I lived there. And some of the critics have never been there. "I will cut off MFN to China." It'd lose a lot of American jobs, and they set China back and they can push them on a course to be adversarial.

I just think it's very narrow-minded.

...BUSH: I think what happened was that in the Vietnam war responsible members of the press felt they were lied to. And following that was Watergate and they felt, correctly so, that they were lied to. And I think the culture changed somewhere in there, and I think the journalistic school says, hey, we're going to have a different standard. The standard of justice in this country in innocent till proved guilty, but were going to shift it now -- this is subtly, they didn't really teach it, but -- we're going to have it guilty till proved innocent.

SNOW: Do you think that standard of guilt was applied to Bill Clinton?

BUSH: Well, I think I'm afraid in some instances it was. There was a lot of charges made against Clinton that weren't true. But perhaps that view was reinforced because he said this wasn't true, and it turned out it was true.
[end of partial transcript]

US Ambassador to China helped communists modernize the PLA - Admiral Prueher’s appeasement / Red China

China's Official B2B E-Commerce Portal, Host to George H.W. Bush, Trades Forced-Labor Products

House Speaker Hastert Hires Registered Foreign Agent As His Top Foreign-Policy Chief
"House Speaker Dennis Hastert has hired a registered agent for a division of a Communist Chinese company linked to Beijing’s military intelligence to be his new senior adviser for foreign policy and defense matters."

FBI Press Room-Congressional Statement-Investigation and Prosecution of Dr. Wen Ho Lee

Abetting Espionage: DOJ turned down request for wiretap on Lee (This was the only request denied out of over 2000)
"From 1993 to 1997, federal officials requested 2,686 wiretaps. For all its concern for probable cause and legal standards, the Justice Department turned down one request in those four years - Lee's in 1996."

Bush Justice Department Seeks to Halt Wen Ho Lee Testimony

Ashcroft Winding Down Justice Department Chinagate Probe

Special Report: The China Puzzle
UNITED STATES CODE - TITLE 18 - CHAPTER 37 (Espionage and Censorship) - SECTION 794 (Gathering or delivering defense information to aid a foreign government):

(a) Whoever, with intent or reason to believe that it is… to the advantage of a foreign nation, communicates, delivers, or transmits, or attempts to communicate, deliver, or transmit, to any foreign government, or to any faction or party or military or naval force within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the United States, or to any representative, officer, agent, employee, subject, or citizen thereof, either directly or indirectly, any… information relating to the national defense, SHALL BE PUNISHED BY DEATH…

Armey says China deal suggests Clinton treason

[katze]

What will you do if any of this shows up in a history book? A former President's legacy is important to him especially if he is vain. It is a fact of history which will be recorded that many people held the view, wrote about and spoke about their belief that former Presdent Bush was a traitor to America.

107 posted on 12/26/01 5:43 PM Pacific by OKCSubmariner

Momentito, Mr B. Are you going to do a Rivero and SKYDRIFTER comment that if we'd listened to you.........? Bullshit!!! Geez, at least those guys have websites.

You want to talk traitor? Let's talk Clinton.

[katze]

Hey, UB. More canned, repetitive posts? You can have this fake, he's all yours, OPINION and all. If you're gonna rag on anyone, it should be Clinton--this is Bush territory.

[Poohbah]

Just for a moment ignoring the argument over physics and Los Alamos (as well as GBush Sr and the neutron bomb,) the simple fact that OBL and his gang have not YET used a small nuke (or a dirty nuke) does NOT mean that it will NEVER happen. Please note that from 9/11 until C4 day (12/24) was 3 1/2 months. OBL & Co. are not worried about winning immediately.

With conventional explosives, time isn't an issue unless you're talking YEARS. With nukes, particularly "fractional-crit" designs that need a LOT of neutrons to detonate them, days and weeks start getting important. Again, I recommend Chuck Hansen's book--it gives details on how nukes work, and some of the logistics involved.

For example, let's take two bombs. One is about 100 pounds of C-4, the other is a nuke weighing 100 pounds. Unlike the first bomb, the nuke is emitting heat, gammas and neutrons--this will tend to degrade both explosive components and electronic systems. To set off a small nuke, a LOT of things have to happen in a precise sequence and with precise timing. If something goes awry because the explosives have degraded (and it happens faster than you'd think with a nuke) or because the electronics are damaged by radiation exposure, your "earth-shattering KABOOM!" (to quote Marvin the Martian) doesn't happen.

So, ANY nuke is on a fairly short timeline from acquisition to detonation. And terrorists can move themselves or their equipment rapidly, or they can do so stealthily. It is exceedingly difficult to both at the same time.

[ninenot]

Uhhh--if the timeline is so critical, then howcomizzit that the USA has a barn full of 'old' nukes which still work?? We haven't produced nuclear 'cookies' (used to happen at Hanford) for about 10 years and the bombs still work, ain'a?

[Capt. Tom]

That dog won't hunt. If they had nukes they would have already used them. Maybe they tried but they didn't go off.

Kind of like a shoe bomb malfunction. -Tom

[irish_lad]

You are a dumb ass.

[Poohbah]

That's because we have a LARGE infrastructure dedicated to maintaining the bombs in working order.

Something that al-Qaeda is notably lacking--the cost of maintainin a nuke in ready to fire condition has to be seen to be believed.