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The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism
First Things ^ | Phillip E. Johnson

Posted on 12/22/2001 7:04:34 PM PST by Exnihilo

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1 posted on 12/22/2001 7:04:34 PM PST by Exnihilo
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To: Exnihilo; *Crevo_list
bump
2 posted on 12/22/2001 7:13:31 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Exnihilo
Phillip E. Johnson is Professor of Law

Professor of Law? Geez, you creationists are really scraping the bottom of the barrel!!!!!!!

3 posted on 12/22/2001 7:21:06 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: Exnihilo
Berkeley no less. Surely these are the end times when creationists quote Berkeley professors of law!!!
4 posted on 12/22/2001 7:23:48 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
you creationists. . .

Interesting.

5 posted on 12/22/2001 7:26:29 PM PST by rdb3
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To: jlogajan
Yeah. Kinda a shame when a law professor knows more about science than the so-called experts. Their only answer? He's a "creationist" and therefore unworthy to have his tough questions addressed. Darwin at least had an excuse, the evidence was still out. However, the rest of you cling to your religion for no apparent reason.
6 posted on 12/22/2001 7:27:50 PM PST by Timmy
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To: Exnihilo
For feedback from First Things readers, and a response by Dr. Johnson, click here
7 posted on 12/22/2001 7:31:28 PM PST by Exnihilo
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To: Timmy
Kinda a shame when a law professor knows more about science than the so-called experts.

He indicated no knowledge of science -- but he is a good spinner for the religious cause -- just what we expect of a slippery lawyer.

8 posted on 12/22/2001 7:32:25 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
Out of curiosity, what makes me a "Creationist"?
Futhermore, what makes Dr. Johnson a "Creationst"?

Regards, Exnihilo
9 posted on 12/22/2001 7:33:07 PM PST by Exnihilo
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To: jlogajan
He indicated no knowledge of science

Can you support this assertion with substance?

Regards, Exnihilo
10 posted on 12/22/2001 7:34:29 PM PST by Exnihilo
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To: jlogajan
Berkeley no less. Surely these are the end times when creationists quote Berkeley professors of law!!!

Darwin's only earned degree was in Theology

11 posted on 12/22/2001 7:36:21 PM PST by netman
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To: Exnihilo
Can you support this assertion with substance?

You mean apart from the lack of ANY scientific evidence presented? This is a philosophical diatribe. He's on about personalities and celebrities. These are all transparent ad hominem assaults -- something lawyers leap to -- but something rational beings find irrelevant.

Evolution is a process that occurs in nature -- the evidence for it is massive. This lawyer is asking us to disregard our lying eyes and believe his philosophical rants instead.

To ID'ers and other Creationists, present your SCIENTIFIC evidence or go away.

12 posted on 12/22/2001 7:39:30 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
As the article states, nobody denies that natural selection occurs, or that minor variations in species occur. Our skepticism involves that of the claims that natural evolution is responsible for and/or capable of macroevolutionary change, such as the development of the brain, or other major morphological forms. There is *no* evidence for this kind of evolution. There is data, and there is the materialist lense with which this data is examined, and then the conclusions are reached based on the a priori commitment to materialism. Please, address Dr. Johnson's assertions, or go away.
13 posted on 12/22/2001 7:42:43 PM PST by Exnihilo
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To: jlogajan
"He indicated no knowledge of science -- but he is a good spinner for the religious cause -- just what we expect of a slippery lawyer."

Actually I believe that his legal training makes him MORE qualified to evaluate the quality of the evidence offered in arguments supporting Evolution Theory. He is also adept by training to point out inconsistencies and contradictions that Evolutionary Scientists are prone to ignore.

14 posted on 12/22/2001 7:47:20 PM PST by NilesJo
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To: jlogajan
Professor of Law? Geez, you creationists are really scraping the bottom of the barrel!!!!!!!

Perhaps we can't expect a more penetrating rebuttal from a...never mind. Anyway, why not a professor of Law, when leading "scientists" say things like this?

We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that miracles may happen.
Contrary to what many materialists have claimed, this is not the attitude of an impartial seeker after truth, who allows the evidence to take him wherever it will. This is the creed of a religious man. Perhaps a Professor of Law is more easily able to recognize this fact than the evolutionary biologists, most of whom are blinded by their own a priori assumption of materialism.
15 posted on 12/22/2001 7:47:21 PM PST by Kyrie
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To: Exnihilo
claims that natural evolution is responsible for and/or capable of macroevolutionary change, such as the development of the brain, or other major morphological forms. There is *no* evidence for this kind of evolution.

This is why you creationists have to rely on slippery lawyers rather than scientists in the actual field who know these sorts of statements are beyond ridiculous. There is ample evidence of transistional forms. But this never satisfies the fundamentalists because they want to see the guy inbetween the two individuals. And if you find that guy, they want to see the two guys inbetween those two, and then the four guys between them, and so on.

You creationists really aren't a serious challenge to evolution. We've seen way too much evidence of all forms of evolution, micro and macro, to have to rely on your old time religion for answers. Sorry.

16 posted on 12/22/2001 7:49:11 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: NilesJo
Actually I believe that his legal training makes him MORE qualified

ha ha ha ha. You realize, of course, that in any case at law at least 50% of the lawyers are found to be WRONG in their arguments or theories, and often both are found to be wrong!!!

ha ha ha ha -- lawyers as scientists -- what a joke.

17 posted on 12/22/2001 7:51:47 PM PST by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
There is ample evidence of transistional forms.

Unfortunately, they're only true transitional forms if and only if Macro Evolution is true in the first place. This kind of thing makes it difficult to 'prove' Macro Evolution as fact without running into circular reasoning. You believe they're transition. We believe they look alike.

We've seen way too much evidence of all forms of evolution, micro and macro, to have to rely on your old time religion for answers.

No one here that I know of claims that micro evolution doesn't exist. However, aside from the fossils, what observable, testable evidence of Macro Evolution do you have? All mutational evidence I've seen can neatly be fit inside Micro Evolution.

-The Hajman-
18 posted on 12/22/2001 7:53:03 PM PST by Hajman
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To: Medved
FYI
19 posted on 12/22/2001 7:54:29 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: Kyrie
Contrary to what many materialists have claimed

See, you get off on these philosophical benders because you can't handle the massive amount of evidence. "Geez, the evidence points to evolution, maybe we can attack the philosophy and make the evidence go away."

Sorry, but evidence of evolution is just massive, massive, massive. The only arguments are about where certain splits occurred, when they occurred, etc. No one in the field seriously questions the general flow of evolutionary forces.

Funny, isn't it, that the only people sqeaking about the "flaws" of evolutionary science always have a religious agenda in their back pocket. What are the chances, ha ha ha

20 posted on 12/22/2001 7:55:47 PM PST by jlogajan
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