Close the Borders

The New York Times (Letter to the Editor) ^ | December 26, 2001 | BRENDA WALKER

[sarcasm]

Close the Borders

			Median Income Drops Are Tied to Immigrants (December 22, 2001)

o the Editor:

The shocking numbers cited in "Median Income Drops Are Tied to Immigrants" (news article, Dec. 22) should convince anyone that mass immigration is economically devastating for average Americans. The article noted annual income losses of $5,000 to $9,000 per household over the last decade in high-immigration locales.

Our open-borders policy has caused Americans to work harder for less and welcomed terrorists. The question is when will Congress close America's porous borders to protect both our incomes and our lives.

BRENDA WALKER
Berkeley, Calif., Dec. 22, 2001

[sarcasm]

I can't believe that the Times actually published this.

[mvonfr]

Which may mean that we are on the right track, but a grass-root movement is still needed before any action is taken.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

I don’t understand how the fact that immigrants have an income below that of the average American implies anything about the income of those that are not immigrants. Just because immigrants are making less money than average has no effect on what non-immigrants make. Before there is a real complaint you need a study showing that the income of non-immigrants has somehow dropped, not just the average income in high immigrant communities.

[Joe Boucher]

Canada is a hotbed for terrorists as they have ignored them for so long. Mexico is an economic basket case that can't provide its workers jobs along with the rest of south and central America. Seal the borders and don't allow everyone in. Australia has a system of selective immigration. If you are worth something,meaning if you have money or a professiion worth a crap you can come. Unlike America that lets in anyone especially freak shows. Put the military on the borders and close them.

[mvpel]

Downward pressure on wages. If the illegal immigrant working under the table for a trucking company in order to support his illegal immigrant wife and six illegal immigrant kids (at $6,500 a pop in public schools) was back in Mexico where he legally belongs, the trucking company would have to hire an American citizen or legal immigrant above the table, and pay the going rate for citizen or legal immigrant truck drivers, along with the payroll taxes that everyone else pays.

[sarcasm]

Have you ever heard of the law of supply and demand?

[RickyJ]

With Bush in the White House the borders won't be closed.

Before 9-11 Bush was in favor of giving amnesty to illegal aliens.

Remember he also said, "Islam is a peaceful religion."

The USA has prospered because of God's blessings to a Christian nation. The USA had better not turn its back on its only REAL security and wealth.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

By the same token it allows most of us to buy goods and services for less than we might have to pay. The immigrants that are lowering the average pay are unskilled; most non-immigrants are skilled workers. Most Americans face no competition from these low wage immigrants and only stand to benefit by the lower prices. Show me some studies showing actual harm to average non-immigrants, which is what this letter implies.

[RickyJ]

Before there is a real complaint you need a study showing that the income of non-immigrants has somehow dropped, not just the average income in high immigrant communities.

This article is talking abut the median income in high immigrant communities, not the average income.

However, I shouldn't be surprised that you don't know the difference or got confused, you are after all a Libertarian.

[sarcasm]

We pay the rest of the costs for these "goods and services" in our tax bill:

The National Research Council has estimated that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with most government expenditures on immigrants coming from state and local coffers, while most taxes paid by immigrants go to the federal treasury. The net deficit is caused by a low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.

[Nitro]

Even a broken clock is right two times a day!!

I have been suggesting this for years, I am Brooklyn-Catholic with an Irish heritage!

If you need a Bartender that bad I'll take the job!!

[RLK]

Downward pressure on wages.

--------------------

Part of this downward pressure is also the result of cheap foreign goods manufactured by semi-slave labor in socialist countries.

[Nitro]

I don’t understand how the fact that immigrants have an income below that of the average American implies anything about the income of those that are not immigrants.

Let's face it, even if only half the illegals are thieves, that is half too many!!

[Libertarianize the GOP]

No I am not confusing the terms; median is half the population makes more half makes less. Immigrants make less than the average income. If you increase the percentage of low wage immigrants in the population you will decrease the median income, while not necessarily decreasing the average income of those above the median.

[sarcasm]

Part of this downward pressure is also the result of cheap foreign goods manufactured by semi-slave labor in socialist countries.

Like China.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

We pay the rest of the costs for these "goods and services" in our tax bill:

The letter does not deal with taxes only with average income.

[TEXICAN II]

I have never looked at the NYTimes on-line. My first & last purchase of their rag was approx 14 yrs ago. They, like the major TV networks, are in desperate need of attention. Recall that they were essentially dead-in-the-water some 6-8 yrs ago & had to re-organize their entire business plan. They might try to out-do Mat Drudge next.

[sarcasm]

You were the one who brought up the subject of the cost of goods and services. Are you disputing the fact that immigration is a net loss for the taxpayers?

[TEXICAN II]

"The letter does not deal with taxes..."

Wow! I have been so foolish about this invasion! I shall now ignore the degredation of our entire society & just be pleased as punch that the village W-Mart has cheap shoes, people with no social skills or education ( & many of them with active criminal careers ) wander my city streets! Like an air-head academic, I shall write the new economic law on my daily note-pad, "Cheap labor best-damn the source, screw the law, to heck with Western Civilization & culture, order in our society"!! Besides, the police need the extra work, chasing illegals, Oh excuse me!! Undoccumented workers, who are, uh, liberating my property & cashing in on my government's welfare $$$$.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

Errors About Immigrants: The government spends much more on the native born.
Cato Institute: The Value Of Immigrants

[Libertarianize the GOP]

should convince anyone that mass immigration is economically devastating for average Americans

I never adressed crime or other issues only economics like this letter attempted to address.

[Born on the Storm King]

I lived seven years in Western Europe. Everytime I befriended a European, they would always ask me, "Why can't we immigrate to the United States?"

[Libertarianize the GOP]

Disinformation from Southern Poverty Law Center
Immigration: The Demographic and Economic Facts, Cato Institute

[sarcasm]

The first article neglects to mention the major cost of immigration - education of their American born children. I have also seen articles which have debunked the second article - I'll search for them later.

[RLK]

Like China, indeed. My brother lost many many thousands of dollars with Singer stock. He tried to explain it to me as being the result of a bad investment by Singer in Europe. I had to explain to him that one of Singer's major sources of income was that they had made hand power tools for Sears/craftsman for many years. Take a look in the tool department at Sears now and the labels say made in China./ It killed Singer. Upon opening the box I find my new Craftsman high quiality cordless drill says made in China. Even Black and Decker are marketing Chinese equipment, which turns out to be high quality. It's raised hell with the job market and economy of Northern Baltimore and Salisbury Maryland. Such is partially responsible for the loss of 65,000 jobs in Georgia this year. Entire American industries are being gutted and displaced, displacing workers.

[tom paine 2]

We are also getting hammered by the HB-1 visa holders. These are people brought into this country to " augment " the hi-tech workforce. What they really are is hi-tech " union busters ". Even though most hi-tech workers are non union, the overall affect is to hold wages down in these industries. If this had been done in the auto industry, the UAW would be rioting in the streets.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

· Schooling Costs.
Estimates by Rebecca Clark imply $522 per capita for immigrants, and $992 per capita for natives. The expenditures are lower for the immigrant population because the proportion of children among the total immigrant population is smaller than among the total native population. I consider it prudent, however, to assume schooling costs for immigrants equal to those of natives.

From the first study that you claimed ignores schooling.

[sarcasm]

Did you actually read the information you linked to in your reply #23? The first article demolishes your position.

[sarcasm]

Please read what I wrote - I specifically stated the American born children of immigrants. The article does not mention this cost.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

It mentions their children Read it again. It does appear that I grabbed the wrong link in #23 will have to review it latter.

[DooDahhhh]

Close those borders now. We can do without lawn care,etc.

[sarcasm]

It mentions immigrant children but not the American born children of immigrants - there is a difference.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

Cato Handbook for Congress: Immigration

[sarcasm]

Looks like the same report which was debunked in your post #23.

[RLK]

Cato Handbook for Congress: Immigration = a bunch of airhead fanatics drunked up on slogans

[grania]

The immigrants that are lowering the average pay are unskilled;

Skilled laborers in technology, medicine, education, also impact salaries.

[doosee]

The premise of "closing the borders" is fantasy land. Making the borders fully secure so that NO illegal people can cross should be the goal. But, in the long run, we live and work in a global economy, so the borders must stay open for commerce to thrive. The day when America has no immigrants who want to come here will be a dark day indeed.

[Joe Boucher]

The dishes man. Who will wash the dishes? Who will dig the ditches? Pick the fruit? Africa is in a coutinual state of being pathetic, I'm suprised America doesn't have a plan to import from there for the low skilled low pay jobs too.

[sarcasm]

Immigration policy must be made on the basis of what is good for the United States - for too long our policy has been determined on the opposite basis - what is good for the immigrant.

[doosee]

Immigration policy must be made on the basis of what is good for the United States

I agree fully. I am a hard liner on who should get in to this great nation even for a short visit. Tom Ridge has received my suggestions on requiring a polygraph exam on every VISA applicant. Many think this is draconian but if we ever want to feel safe on a plane or anywhere for that matter we will have to outdo the Israelis on checking out the incoming.

[TEXICAN II]

Libertarians act & speak as if they have no concern for the consequences of their much vaunted 'philosophy'-morals? who cares ( God is just an invention of failed religions, & their moral codes are soo inconvienient )! Results in our society? Not their concern! Borders, language, culture? Only issues raised by zenophobes & bigots!

Libertarians vagely resemble the commie-lib-socilaists, with their foolish good intentions & the consequences be d---- attitude! What a loud voice from such a small & short-sighted crew.

[IceGirl2]

Not only must the borders be closed here, but in all of the illegals should be shipped out. This will only happen if we work on our Congressmen. Actively participate in their town meetings, go to their local offices, and make yourself known.

The borders must be sealed and no more Moslems should be allowed to immigrate to this country. They have proven that they put their so-called 'religion' above their duties to this country. They will never change and they should not be allowed here. There has been no blanket condemnation of the criminal bin Laden here. There is no indication that their sentiments are in favor of the USA winning this war against terrorism. They continue to support organizations that PAY THE FAMILIES of suicide bombers. They are disgusting.

[TEXICAN II]

The Imperial Federal Government does import from all around the world! You & I pay the costs. Some major contractors ( those who erect buildings, for example ), actually shop for the cheapest labor & import them in groups from specific places.

I have first hand knowledge of the high numbers of such labor & ALSO of the apprx 33% of the graduate students at a major Texas public university who are aliens. I pay for their stinking dorm/apartments, books, tuition & fees. I want this ended immediatly.

Who will do the low-end labor? Pleanty of folks-we might find that a free market works wonders. Imagine employers who pay what the market demands! Sure, costs will go up, but do you suppose we would perish?

[.45MAN]

As more people in an area agree to work for lower wages, the median wage does go down over time. Companys look at what the area is paying in all jobs and adjust's it's raises in accordance. Thus the wages in that area do not keep up with the cost of living, and everyone suffers.