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To black conservatives: What contributed to you becoming a conservative. VANITY
my pea-brain | me

Posted on 01/05/2002 5:24:58 AM PST by Check_Your_Premises

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Comment #61 Removed by Moderator

To: Tokhtamish
Not really. All those Republicans you mentioned were not considered true GOP either at the time. That a shift in both parties has taken place is beyond question. But the Northeast faction of the GOP was just that- a faction. It died not becasue of the intolerant GOP (there is more diversity among the GOP in the realm of ideas than Democrats) but simply because the GOP of the Northeast differs almost not at all with the Democrats. Jeffords switched his allegiance not out of any radical difference with the GOP- he was always a liberal even under the conservative Reagan. He was an opportunists- pure and simple. The GOP in the Northeast died not because of anything the larger party did. No- it died in the Northeast because if you are gonna vote for a liberal why not just vote for the real deal- a Democrat? The GOP went so far left in the Northeast that it offers no alternative to Democratic rule. The shift in party labels was only a matter of time. "Politics"- in the northeast is a fraud. With phoney "GOP" governors like Swift, Cellucci, and Weld our "debates" on the "issues" were all tempests in a teapot- over minutia and personal factional petty arguments- of absolutley no interest to anyone but unemployed Kremlin watchers.
62 posted on 01/05/2002 12:50:43 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: innocentbystander
WOW, that's telling him!

Glad you're on our side.

Don't you just love a man who speaks his mind plain and clear as day.

No wonder you're a conservative.

63 posted on 01/05/2002 1:17:50 PM PST by AquariusStar22
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To: Check_Your_Premises
I've written several notes on this site about the reasoning behind my daring escape from the liberal plantation. I will only say here that the primary reasons for my defection can be distilled into the following points:
  1. Education. I had the blessing of having an "strict constructionist" for American History in college. This young man, Dr. Muller, was a Harvard grad but a teacher of the old school. During this basic American History class, we were required to learn:
    • ALL the Presidents to the present (at that time, Bush Sr.
    • ALL the capitals of every state
    • A HUGE portion of the Constitution
    • Additionally, we spent a great deal of time actually going through the debates at the Constitutional Convention with each student required to understand the arguments for or against a strong Federal Government
      There was more, but suffice to say, I owe Dr. James Muller, formerly of the University of Alaska, Anchorage, a considerable debt of gratitude. Additionally, Dr. Diddy Hitchins (a faaaaaaar out socialist) was an excellent guide in basic political theory

  2. Just as important if not more so, was the influence of Scripture. Such instruction as, "If a man will not work, let him not eat" suddenly made their rightful ethical impact as I saw that the "welfare state" was not only bad politics, but immoral, unbiblical, degrading and against God's created order

  3. Another important point was the intellectual ability to separate people from their political viewpoints. By that somewhat sloppy phrase I mean only that I was able to avoid the trap of trashing the truly noble aspects of the American Experiment because some of its early and most famous exponents did not live up to their ideals. Like MLK, I was able to see that it wasn't the Constitution that was at fault, but those who failed to honor its precepts

  4. The last point is simply the courage to part with the herd. I am sure that many a black conservative can bear witness when I say that many, many, MANY other blacks IMMEDIATELY try to put "shame on your game" when they hear you talking "white as hell" (an actual comment made to me by a black coworker). Like a Muslim who turns to Christ, you better get ready, because you will be persona non grata among those who formerly professed great love for a "brothah" with a quickness. Such is the price for thinking for oneself...

64 posted on 01/05/2002 1:28:33 PM PST by CaptBlack
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To: innocentbystander
Amen to that brother!
While I can't endorse asking Tot to likewise kiss my own black behind, I share your frustration. Just YESTERDAY I made almost the exact same point in nearly the EXACT same language as you put it,
Listen, my impaired friend; it is exactly the kind of drivel you spout that makes thinking Blacks run from the Liberals and Poverty Pimps in droves. How dare you attempt to decide for us just how and when we will acheive authenticity? What on earth makes you think it is for you to say in the first place what is authentic and what is not?...I have NO obligation to work WITHIN or on BEHALF of the Black community, because I AM the damn Black community [Amen!], as much as anyone else.

It is fascinating that the underlying a priori assumption that liberal blacks make when attacking a conservative black is that the conservative has moved "over there" while the liberals are "still here". Who says that my free and considered choice to identify myself with conservative ideology is somehow a departure from the best interests and well-being of blacks in general? The fact of the matter is, most conservative blacks I know (many of us in the military and some of the generations PRIOR to the 60s) think that conservatism IS doing well by the "black community".

65 posted on 01/05/2002 1:40:13 PM PST by CaptBlack
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To: SpookBrat
modern day slave owners
and d'@$$hole, kennedy, jackson & sharpton are the head massa's!!!
66 posted on 01/05/2002 1:46:05 PM PST by rockfish59
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Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: Check_Your_Premises
CYP, here is another interesting article posted previously on FR regarding this very subject. I don't agree with everything Pearson says, but overall he makes some very good and valid points.

I'm Not A Traitor: Black and Republican - by Bishop Carlton Pearson ~ Posted on FR in Feb 01.

68 posted on 01/05/2002 2:21:22 PM PST by Neets
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To: Tokhtamish
You care to answer my question in #38?
69 posted on 01/05/2002 2:21:36 PM PST by rdb3
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To: innocentbystander,CaptBlack
Funny how it's always the same refrain from black "conservatives"

"I'm a black conservative. I'm a hard working law abiding black person not like those other blacks, those welfare hoodlums. I am not one of them, I am not cut from the same cloth as them and I want nothing to do with them."

For as long as black conservatism retains a wannabe image, for as long as long as it is perceived as personal and social preference instead of just ideological (innocentbystander, I will bet you $10 bucks that you do not have a black close friend and have never dated a black girl), it will never rise above eccentricity level.

70 posted on 01/05/2002 2:33:11 PM PST by Tokhtamish
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To: Check_Your_Premises
FWIW, anti-FReepers would have a hey-day with your screen name..
71 posted on 01/05/2002 2:34:33 PM PST by Registered
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Comment #72 Removed by Moderator

To: Burkeman1
But political differences tend to narrow intra-regionally because both candidates must appeal to the same swing voters. A northeastern republican will never be as conservative as a southern republican. The same holds for northeastern and southern democrats.

Since the onset of the Reagan era, the GOP has won presidential elections based on the solid South and the West. This has made northeastern republicans frankly expendable in the eyes of conservatives who hold blue zone manners and mores in contempt. The economic shift of the erosion of northeastern cultural and economic dominance, the massive defection of disaffected white southerners to the GOP, have weakened the standing of northeastern republicans in the GOP to the point where they obviously have no real influence whatsoever in a party dominated by southern social issue conservatives (which of course diminishes their political competitiveness). A republican party that had any seriousness about the northeast at all would at least have considered putting a Catholic governor on the ticket as vice president. Was that too much to ask ?

The abuse Colin Powell has received from conservatives who apparently care nothing about wooing any black support, the sneering RINO description of republicans who aren't southern enough... these aren't exactly encouraging signs for any black political defection of any scope.

73 posted on 01/05/2002 3:15:28 PM PST by Tokhtamish
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To: Tokhtamish
You appear to have strong opinions about this subject. Would you kindly tell us how and why you developed these opinions? (i.e., books you've read, personal experiences, etc.) Thank you.
74 posted on 01/05/2002 3:18:41 PM PST by WillaJohns
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To: Tokhtamish
Sorry, allow me to clarify what I meant.

The quotation marks around "civil rights" were intentional.

I was NOT equating the repudiation of civil rights with acceptance of conservatism. What I was talking about the hypothetical person repudiating was not what the civil rights movement WAS, but what it has BECOME

I believe most people who believe in my brand of conservatism are whole heartedly in favor of what the civil rights movement was. The civil rights movement was created with the goal of uplifting a race of people that had been held down both institutionally (direct government sanction) and by the tremendous cultural damage that slavery inflicted on this race.

I believe the civil rights movement now is an effectively hijacked movement with the goal of continuing and subsidizing the cultural legacy of slavery (destruction of the nuclear family), and it encourages all deflection of personal responsiblility to the convenient white racist bogey man racist for the expressed purpose of keeping black down so they will make better mascots for the left to continue demonstrating their "compassion".

But nice try at putting words in my mouth. I hope this clarifies what I said, and any offense you took to my post was certainly not intentional.

75 posted on 01/05/2002 3:30:57 PM PST by Check_Your_Premises
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To: Chi-townChief
Are you asking me what made me a conservative?

I think that of course is an intersting topic. ANy person who has made the transformation from a lefty or a sheeple to a conservative should ponder this question because the answer holds the key to winning over others.

However, there is no group of people that I can imagine that would have a harder time making the above mentioned philosophical transformation than a black American. For starters they will instantly be branded "Uncle TOm". They will be subject to derision. NOt to mention the fact that their entire lives they are bombarded with the propaganda of the left (as we all are) to hate conservatives. It almost appears to be a part of the black American "archetype".

But what do I know, I am just a cracker, thus the reason I posted.

76 posted on 01/05/2002 3:42:43 PM PST by Check_Your_Premises
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To: rdb3
Thank you for your reply, and taking my question in the spirit it was intended.

It is hard to approach these topics sometimes with out being taken the wrong way.

77 posted on 01/05/2002 3:50:00 PM PST by Check_Your_Premises
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To: Check_Your_Premises
I apologize for my misunderstanding.
78 posted on 01/05/2002 3:56:10 PM PST by Tokhtamish
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To: Tokhtamish
Catholic Governor? This is 2002- not 1960. No one cares about that anymore.

As for the viscious attacks against Colin Powell by the GOP I surely must ask if you are joking. Colin Powell and any other black even marginally off the liberal plantation is attacked with the most vile of language as to not be believed. Conservative Republicans are critical of Powell becasue we disagree with his views. The Left and Democrats seek to destroy the man's very soul with their rhetoric- they attack him and other black Republicans or even moderate centrists as race traitors.

Northeast Republicans did not lose their vitality because the rest of the party got more socially conservative. They lost their vitality because they stand for absolutly nothing that can't be found in a Democrat. I have watched as the Northeast Republican parties in my own short life span sold out and purged all social conservatives from their ranks- wooed the left on issues ranging from gays to abortion rights and are in worse shape than it has ever been before. I think Massachusetts has reached a record low with only 12 percent of registered voters being Republican. In fact- on the local level one is far more likely to find a Democrat who is socially conservative than a Republican

And further- poll after poll show that African Americans identify far more with social conservativism than with social Liberalism. So I don't see how a turning more to the Left on social issues is going to attract blacks as voters.

Quite Frankly- all this blather about how to attract black voters is nonsense. The GOP should just stay the course. As the "racism" excuse gets more and more tired (and there are encouraging signs in the popular culture that blacks are not buying it anymore) and more and more move into the middle class then the shift will occur. There is no magic potion or spell that the GOP can cast over blacks to make them vote GOP- it will just happen.

79 posted on 01/05/2002 4:00:57 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Chi-townChief
I too made the move to the right (alienating parents and friends)during the carter years when I was in my 30's (now 61). I looked around and realized that the people critizing carter were much smarter than the people supporting him. The supporters were not people I admired and the people that did not support him were people I admired. I started listening more and realized that I was actually a very conservative Republican. My husband says that in the South, being a Democrat is like rooting for Georgia or Alabama football teams, the people don't actually know what it is all about. Sometimes I feel that many of our elected representatives are the same, it is all about winning.
80 posted on 01/05/2002 4:03:48 PM PST by sibb1213
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