Skip to comments.(Breaking:Governor)Owens Calls for Columbine Grand Jury (Students "Gunned By" Swat,+KleboldAutopsy)
Posted on 01/05/2002 12:26:27 PM PST by t-shirt
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I too, think they should not have waited so long to go in, but to blame the deaths on the police is ludicrous and shows a complete lack of understanding of the concept of RELEVANCE. 2 kids are at fault, the rest were reacting in the heat of battle.
If those officers had rushed in, instigating a heavy gun battle with collateral injuries(not saying that would have been the result, but it was a significant risk), you would probably be the first and the loudest shouting how "as long as you live, you will never forget the images of those stormtroopers hastily charging the building, killing children, a graphic picture of excessive force and poor judgement."
Do you remember the shootout the LA Cops had with the body-armored bank-robbers?
The cops were outgunned, because 9mm and shotguns weren't stopping the perps, because their BODY ARMOR PROTECTED THEM!
Why do we have SWAT teams dressed like Ninjas, wearing body armor if they are AFRAID OF GETTING THE ARMOR SCRATCHED!
There was NOTHING Klebold or Harris HAD that would have penetrated the armor, but the SWAT Cops COWERED OUTSIDE!
Oh, let's not forget the Cop who is being stonewalled for...he fired off 51 FRICKIN' rounds from a full auto HK-94...that's 1 1/2 CLIPS...ON FULL AUTO!
Now an innocent kid is dead, and you want to join in the LEO Hallelujiah Chorus?
Same request to you as I made to Dane (SO MANY TIMES!!!), if you are an LEO, name and badge #, and where you work...I need to avoid you folks...you forget just WHO THE BAD GUYS ARE!
If it was an insult... thanks. I HAVE been bad today and if I don't deserve it here... I DID elsewhere. It it was a referral to the whole waco, gun grabbing career of Clintong and his crowd... I would agree. See, either way.. you are right as long as you keep your responses short and cryptic.
PS are you Quidam?
Columbine High School was a result of punk kids. The police did what they could and in the process mistakes occurred. The police are not directly responsible and to the best of knowledge, they made no cover-ups about the situation.
If you want to talk about cover-ups, see Waco, TX or Branch Davidians or perhaps "government conspiracy about how to roast 87 people and laugh about it to the American People."
If any innocent students were shot by LEO's it is totally relevant. Heat of battle or not, LEO's should be accountable for everyone & everything they shoot. That's what the mental evaluations and training are partly about. I don't want a world where LEO's can shoot innocents and we all say, 'Oh well, it was in the middle of a shoot out so it's excuseable.' LEO work is tough but lowering our expectations is not the right answer.
I believe you are correct.And only a few shots would have been fired from those Model 10s.(I carried one on duty years ago, it's not how many bullets but where you place them!)
If the cops there, or anywhere, wont deal with this type of killing spree quickly, then my kid should be able to carry a concealed weapon to protect herself.Or better yet,I get some kind of tax credit that allows me to send her to private school,and we opt out of "public"education altogether.
BTW it is beyond my imagination that a cop ran when somebody was shooting kids. I swear if it was me I would have fought until I was out of bullets and blood........
Even worse was watching the cowards in their flack jackets, with m16s at the ready, boldly approaching the school, shielded by a fire truck.
The poor fireman was in plain view behind that huge windshield, he had no flack jacket.
If only I had a nickle for every time I heard Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton and Bill say that.......
But this thread is all about an entirely different problem. This was not political greed or government cover-up. This was albout the tragic deaths of youths that may have been caught up in the line of fire-power.
It is ashame you don't understand my point. Then, again, I always become choaked up with Columbine, CO threads and for my human misgivings, I apoligize.
To sanction disregard for the Constitution in the name of protecting society from law breakers is to make the government itself lawless and to subvert those values upon which our ultimate freedom and liberty depend. -- Judge (U.S.A.) Brennan
There was some kind of conspiracy at Columbine.
1. There was some amount of foreknowledge of these perps and their plans--the perps should have been closely watched. This in a town with a low crime rate, and not the overwhelming caseload that urban cops contend with that tends to let this kind of info go unnoticed.
2. Why did the cops not storm the building? Did no one think of putting on a custodian's uniform to get in and look like they belonged there to get intel? There was credible inside intel due to the large amount of cell phone calls by the students to the outside. One TV reporter was reporting live that they had heard from a student inside that they were hiding in a certain part of the library from the perps, and I yelled at the TV "Don't give away that info-someone on the outside might be feeding info to the perps!" There was massive armed firepower outside--doing nothing!
3. What ever happened to the tanks and tanks of propane gas found in the building and how did they get there? Two kids did that by their lonesome?
4. It was too neat that the two perps "offed" each other simultaneously in a Hollywood movie ending. In real life, one person always chickens out or misses or gets wounded. That never sounded right to begin with. It sounded like someone else took them out. Dead men tell no tales.
5. A man bled to death for almost three hours due to inaction and cowardice on the SWAT teams outside. That was inexcusable.The timeline is clear that the are he was in was secure enough to get him and his class out, but that didn't happen.
6. Clinton and Reno jumped on this tragedy likes flies on crap to extract anti gun laws--it was too close in MO to the Oklahoma City bombing--the tale of the tragedy was spun very quickly so that no one could react.
7. The Sheriff has not said a word to the investigating commission. That stinks more than anything. 13 innocents dead and he clams up. Yeah, right!
Columbine's full story has not been told.
How do you know this?
Prosecutor rejects calls for grand jury over allegations police shot Columbine student By Steven K. Paulson, Associated Press, 1/3/2002 16:50
LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) Federal and county prosecutors Thursday refused to convene a grand jury to look into allegations that a police officer accidentally killed a student during the 1999 Columbine High School massacre.
Gov. Bill Owens said he would not ask for an investigation, and U.S. Attorney John Suthers said no federal crimes have been alleged.
''You have to believe there was criminal conduct to convene a grand jury. We have no reason to believe there was anything criminal that took place during the investigation,'' said Pam Russell, spokeswoman for Jefferson County District Attorney Dave Thomas. The parents of some of the slain
This needs to be looked at. A new policy may come out of this like....Dont shoot kids running out of a building, when you dont know what the hell is going on.
Pretty British of you, in fact.
Since the ultimate blame belongs to Klebold and Harris, the Leos's are not responsable and should not be held accountable for a brave teacher bleeding to death?
Remembering also the teacher who bled to death more than 2 hours after the initial attack ... (Sniff).
Save your breath; Dane posts the exact same comment to every thread concerning Columbine. In his world, evidently, the police are never to be held responsible for mistakes. I would agree that there are certainly cases where the cops deserve the benefit of the doubt, and more. Columbine, however, is layer upon layer of law enforcement ineptitude. Sorta makes you wonder what motivates *anyone* to run interference for that particular SWAT team.
Isn't there a Bush swoonfest thread going on somewhere? Go find it and stop interrupting while the grownups are talking.
I am usually disgusted when I read what some flunky says to try to cover up the venality of the position being taken by politicians, mainly because their statements are so mindlessly stupid.
It's apparent that all you know about this came from ABC news or some similar source. Maybe you'd benefit from further reading.
Correct and this is a perfect example of why it should be since this looks like the LEO's are more interested in CYA than truth.
I'm not a cop basher by ANY means. And you are right that the two shooters caused the whole scenario. I'd not let them slide a bit. But if a cop has lied and it can be proven, that's a step against corruption and tyranny that should be taken. I can't believe this would EVEN be argued with. I've known and dealt with good cops. But then unfortunately I've also had to deal with 1 or 2 bad cops. And I assure you, I think there's nothing worse than a bad cop. Period. But also lets not forget the dead and their families.
I suggest that you go after current government policy that destroys our precious rights and freedoms. Go after BIG_POLITICAL_MACHINES that say they support the Constitution and then they turn-around and tear it up because, "it's the will of the people."
Others have made good points as well.
It was clearly evident that Sheriff Stone was acting on orders from "above" and that the SWAT teams were being ordered to not go into the school. Further, it is clear that the teacher was allowed to bleed to death - on purpose - even though the students with him had been rescued and pleaded with the officials to get the teacher out...but their pleas were not heeded.
Now - why would these non-actions be ordered "from above"?
One must always, always, always look at who benefitted from this "school shooting massacre". Whose agenda was enhanced?
If you said gun grabbing totalitarian wannabes who fear armed American citizens - you would be right.
That doesn't mean Harris and Klebold were not the guilty parties - of course they were. But again there were too many eyewitness reports of "other shooters" - people who, just like at OKC, and TWA800, were attempted to be talked out of seeing OTHERS than the OFFICIAL perpetrators by "investigators" - but who have never changed their stories or their minds.
The M.O. is so similar in all these "Clinton era events and 'investigations'" that I cannot understand why people miss the obvious.
It is clear that what happened at Columbine was a "controlled" event. That made the investigation become a "controlled" event also. In other words, at the best - higher up officials ordered LEO NOT to enter the school and the LEO's obeyed those orders. At the worst (and I have no problem thinking the worst about the Clinton Crime Machine) - some agents within the Clinton administration learned about Klebold and Harris, took them under their wing, nourished their plans and augmented them, probably promising them assisted escape after the deed was done but instead, gave them each a bullet in their temples, assisted as shooters and then participated in the lengthy coverup of the evidence - (why the bodies were not allowed to be moved for almost a day!!!)
Sheriff Stone knows exactly what happened and knows he would be lynched if he told the truth about what he knows. He enjoys breathing so he keeps the "STONE"wall going. People in the Clinton administration know the truth also. They know they would be lynched if the truth were known about their complicity in the Columbine massacre.
People in the Bush administration - those they have managed to get into positions with any authority - likely would not believe such horrors could be done. They only see "good government" at work and have no inkling of the depths of evil with which many in the previous administration operatives were filled.
The operatives are still in their old jobs likely - at the FBI - and at the CIA - a very chilling prospect. Mueller is not trustworthy because he was there under Clinton.
So, the beat goes on. The the injustice continues and will not be uncovered because the perpetrators enjoy breathing also.
But, again, there is a Judge who knows quite well exactly what happened. There is coming a day when every one of the perpetrators (not Klebold and Harris - they have already met their just end) will stand before God Almighty. No spin, no coverup, no lies will be tolerated there.
I would suggest any of these operatives who participated in this heinous crime should consider that coming forward with the truth today, confessing their deeds, and taking the just punishment for them in this life - meeting their Savior face to face NOW will make their eternal situation much more "comfortable". And, America CAN handle the truth......if only the "government" - the honest, good government people would give truth a chance!
Yep. Two nutty kids start shooting and the cops can kill anyone in sight, right?
Wasnt much was it? How HOURS after the H&K were dead and the shooting had stopped before they reached the teacher who bled to death from an injury that he could have lived through? "what they could"? I expect far more for my money.
Information about events was always tightly controlled during the Clinton years, precisely because of the media's ideological kinship with Clinton and thosed who backed his rise to power. I say those who backed his rise to power because ther is no way that two-bit huckster from Little Rock who was ruled by his bent little head could ever amount to much without a whole lot of packaging, spinning, and agitprop fed to the masses to sell his worthless hide as a "leader" of anything.
As a country, we were hosed by this hayseed and his Marxist wife, no doubt about it.
But the "controlled event", as you put it, aptly describes the lockdown on information that occurred after Columbine, as occurred after OKC in 1995. Notice too, that our watchdog media has never ever fed us alternate stories or investigations about these highly suspicious incidents. But now that we have a Republican President, voila, the "homeless problem" is front page news again. Where the heck were these homeless people from 1993-2001 during Clinton--you never heard of them, right?!
Thanks for the phrase "controlled events". Columbine, OKC, Waco, TWA 800 , Vince Foster, Ron Brown, in my mind were all "controlled events".
They can call us "conspiracy nuts" if they want too, but I've lived long enough to know that if it don't smell right, it ain't right, and a whole lot of closer inspection is needed. And Columbine never smelled right.
51 posted on 1/5/02 6:21 PM Pacific by
Correct! Completely correct!
Militarized police are basically trained cowardice---it's the idea that the life of the agent, troop or officer is the most important, by far, over the lives of the citizen, victim or hostage.