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Kensington Rune Stone
myself | 1-9-02 | myself

Posted on 01/09/2002 12:52:12 PM PST by crystalk

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For a slow, cold, day in a Minnesota winter, especially if one's ancestors were Scandinavian.
1 posted on 01/09/2002 12:52:12 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Bump for later
2 posted on 01/09/2002 12:59:18 PM PST by Bikers4Bush
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To: crystalk
That was a very interesting read, however I wish you hadn't posted it,
because now I'm gonna have trouble selling my Piltdown Man on E Bay.
3 posted on 01/09/2002 1:01:16 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: crystalk
For a slow, cold, day in a Minnesota...
Actually, she's pretty nice out der about now doncha know.
4 posted on 01/09/2002 1:07:07 PM PST by Spruce
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To: crystalk
....only the ignorant still deny that Norsemen had been all over the interior of North America, New Mexico, Colorado, most of Canada, even Oklahoma, for centuries and even millennia prior to 1362.

Is the author being serious?

5 posted on 01/09/2002 1:08:33 PM PST by silmaril
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To: Focault's Pendulum
bump
6 posted on 01/09/2002 1:08:40 PM PST by Tribune7
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To: crystalk
bump for later
7 posted on 01/09/2002 1:13:38 PM PST by d4now
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To: silmaril
Yep, he's serious. Check out the famous Heavener Runestone (Southeastern Oklahoma). Go here
8 posted on 01/09/2002 1:18:53 PM PST by Aristophanes
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To: crystalk
For a slow, cold, day in a Minnesota winter, especially if one's ancestors were Scandinavian.

Ya, ya. Not bad, for a "dumb swede." Still wondering, over 100 years later. Not bad, he..he. Nils and Anders.

9 posted on 01/09/2002 1:24:57 PM PST by truth_seeker
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To: crystalk
This page may be of interest to you. An analysis of the stone's core versus the runes' surfaces suggests that the stone spent a long period of time buried. Geologists compared the amount of mica degradation inside the stone to degradation in the runes and on the dressed surfaces. They show a lot of degradation which wouldn't be the case if the runes were recently carved.
10 posted on 01/09/2002 1:31:39 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: Aristophanes
this stuff is just amazing. bump and thanks.
11 posted on 01/09/2002 1:38:04 PM PST by babble-on
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To: Redcloak
An author, Anderson by name, in Chicago some 60 years ago claimed to have discoved a code (skips) in the runes something like the now-famed Bible codes, according to which the name of the carver is given and the date (1362 repeated) and in which the "22 Norsemen and 8 Swedes" said to be on the trip, were said to be a code for the fact that in crossing the continent they had encountered 22 hundred miles of mountains (like Norway) and 8 hundred miles of marshy flattish forests (like Sweden)...these were publised works...
12 posted on 01/09/2002 1:43:43 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
bfl...
13 posted on 01/09/2002 1:49:09 PM PST by danneskjold
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To: babble-on
You're very welcome; I think this stuff is way cool.

My interest began when I visited the Heavener stone while on a trip as a teenager. Back in those days (mid 70's) you could go right up and touch the stone in person. Now, so I'm told, it's encased in some sort of glass contraption which prevents close analysis by the general public. :(

What is not mentioned here is that there was at least one more similar stone found in the hills adjacent to the Arkansas River, in the Tulsa vicinity. Tulsa is about 150 miles to the north of Heavener. The location of these stones, according to the newspaper article I read at the time (ca. 1980) was kept secret to prevent vandals from damaging them. Apparently they're too big to move easily.

The thought is that these same Viking explorers were traveling up the Arkansas sometime around 800 A.D.

Cool stuff.

14 posted on 01/09/2002 1:49:59 PM PST by Aristophanes
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To: Aristophanes
Its very "Lord of the Rings"-ish to imagine these guys journeying these distances. To what end? rape and pillage? looking for food? gold? rings of power?
15 posted on 01/09/2002 1:55:30 PM PST by babble-on
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To: Redcloak;blam
One of the problems of new world history is the 19th century bias against precolumbian European discovery. I read the book, the author makes a good arguement.

I also believe that the Europeans, us mainly, hit the beach a long time ago, well before Columbus. The similarity between Clovis points and European points are to close to argue.

16 posted on 01/09/2002 1:56:49 PM PST by Little Bill
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To: babble-on
They were on an updagelsy-fard, just to see what was beyond the next hill, over the next river...So very Nordic, so white of them, no other race would ever do THAT...
17 posted on 01/09/2002 2:08:10 PM PST by crystalk
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To: blam; dennisw; maestro
More crystalkery aka trash.
18 posted on 01/09/2002 2:11:38 PM PST by crystalk
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To: babble-on
The world was a warmer place back then, we know that now. we also know that the vikings were well travelled and made an attempt to sack Constantinople, and made it well into the Ukraine.

These guys loved their boats and were excellent seamen. None of this is far-fetched.

19 posted on 01/09/2002 2:12:06 PM PST by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: crystalk
bump for later read.
20 posted on 01/09/2002 2:15:59 PM PST by Sid Rich
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To: Citizen of the Savage Nation
Yah, these political correct environmentalists want to close us down, let us all freeze in the dark, they never read Leif Ericsson's description of how mild America was a thousand years ago, or of King Woden-lithi's description that 2700 years ago, Petersborough, ONT had a climate like Atlanta more or less, etc.

It would take centuries more of recent warming to get us back to where the North was back when Scandinavians were in their salad days.

Read Barry Fell's classic Bronze Age America, or any of his works...

21 posted on 01/09/2002 2:17:09 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
I'm just throwing this out for thought but didn't the Mayans have some sort of a legend about a blond man with blue eyes?

Maybe the Norse have been exploring a lot longer than we dare to think...
22 posted on 01/09/2002 2:21:15 PM PST by RebelDawg
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To: crystalk
I'm of Norwegian descent on my mother's side (German and native American on my father's) and this sort of stuff always fascinates me. I'm remember reading (though now I don't remember where I read it) that the "Five Civilized Tribes" (of Last of the Mohican fame) traced their civilization back to the arrival of fair-haired, fair-eyed and fair-haired "strangers" in the land. Contemporary accounts of the physical appearance of those people belonging to the "Civilized" tribes describe many as having "clear" (not brown) eyes and as having many shades of hair color (from light-red to light-brown). Interesting stuff - given the propensity of the Vikings and Norseman to roam I have no doubt there were Scandinavians in North America (and probably South America as well) long before Columbus.
23 posted on 01/09/2002 2:24:37 PM PST by waxhaw
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To: crystalk
Good stuff! I like Kennewick Man.
24 posted on 01/09/2002 2:33:33 PM PST by dennisw
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To: RebelDawg
Norse were at Peterborough, Ont, in 1700 BC era.

Yes, there was a whole panel on an interior mural at Chichen Itza that showed the Maya engaged in a naval battle with Vikings, but it was too politically incorrect, so it was sent to Mexico City to go into hiding.

Yes, Chichen was founded about 870 ad, just when so many Norse were fleeing over seas to escape the terrible rule of a certain king whose name I do not have before me. The Danish were of course at that point still the rank and file seamen, and if you look at your standard Maya dictionary with a little old-Danish in your head, you can amaze yourself.

Hint, when the Spanish came ashore and asked the name of the country, the Maya could not understand them, but responded with: "Uiy-ki-takn" ie "listen to them, listen to how they talk." That got made into "Yucatan," but the takn part is obviously cognate to Danish and English words for talk.

25 posted on 01/09/2002 2:36:59 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Vi har de bra har ilandet.
26 posted on 01/09/2002 2:41:03 PM PST by Whilom
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To: crystalk
Yes, there was a whole panel on an interior mural at Chichen Itza that showed the Maya engaged in a naval battle with Vikings, but it was too politically incorrect, so it was sent to Mexico City to go into hiding.

Cite please. And bump for later reading and comment.

27 posted on 01/09/2002 2:43:16 PM PST by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx
Gossip from my ten years of whiling away winters in Yucatan.

Never seen in print, its too dangerous.

28 posted on 01/09/2002 2:47:53 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Read Barry Fell's classic Bronze Age America, or any of his works...

Funny that you mention it, I have...or I think its called America BC...that's the one I have.

29 posted on 01/09/2002 3:01:20 PM PST by Citizen of the Savage Nation
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To: waxhaw
The Five Nations were the Mohawk,Seneca,Cayuga,Onondaga,and Oneida.The Five Civilized Tribes were the Choctaw,Chickasaw,Cherokee,Creek,and Seminole.
30 posted on 01/09/2002 3:19:23 PM PST by Free Trapper
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To: crystalk; Aristophanes
"...only the ignorant still deny that Norsemen had been all over the interior of North America, New Mexico, Colorado, most of Canada, even Oklahoma, for centuries and even millennia prior to 1362."

Fascinating stuff.

I'm aware of the Heavener stone in Oklahoma. But whence the New Mexico reference?

I ask because of the Three Rivers Petroglyph (between Alamogordo and Carrizozo in SE New Mexico), which I visited in the mid-sixties.

The site consists of a sprawl of basaltic boulders, most of them between knee and waist height, as I recall. At first, you're not aware of the glyphs. But, if you sit down and let your eyes wander over the site, you'll eventually spot one. And, then, you'll realize they are all around you -- everywhere.

One of the glyphs is, very clearly, a side view of a Viking ship -- complete with raised prow and stern, square sail and round shields mounted along the side rail. Either the Vikings visited this site...or somebody who had seen such a vessel had.

There were no attendants at the site (it is a National Recreational Area at the foot of the Sacramento Mountains), so I couldn't confirm what the professional interpretation was. Or even if they were aware of it -- there being literally thousands of glyphs in the area.

31 posted on 01/09/2002 3:37:44 PM PST by okie01
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To: crystalk

32 posted on 01/09/2002 3:38:24 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
Debunking The Kenington Rune Stone
33 posted on 01/09/2002 3:56:04 PM PST by blam
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To: crystalk
I don't recall any interior murals of any sort at Chichen Itza, nor any place where they could have been except the pyramid, and there are no places there where a missing mural could have been taken from. Are you thinking about Balam Che, which is nearby? Even if you are, the story seems unlikely.
34 posted on 01/09/2002 3:57:20 PM PST by PUGACHEV
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To: okie01
The book In Plain Sight by Gloria Farley is a good read on Okie rhunes and rock carvings.
35 posted on 01/09/2002 3:59:10 PM PST by Free Trapper
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To: crystalk
I have seen this site and I do have Gloria Farley's book. The stones in the US have many messages from people who were here long before Columbus.
36 posted on 01/09/2002 3:59:30 PM PST by YadaYada
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To: crystalk; All
Anyone interested in Pre-Columbian North American history and archeology will enjoy this site, VERY interesting. Ancient American

The article "An Ancient North African Treasure-Trove in Southern Illinois" was amazing. Apparently fleeing Roman oppression, a bunch of first century AD Jews, Christians, and Mauritanian sailors made it all the way to Illinois, leaving artifacts behind.

37 posted on 01/09/2002 4:23:54 PM PST by jrewingjr
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To: crystalk
whole panel on an interior mural at Chichen Itza

Where was it, in the nunnery?

38 posted on 01/09/2002 4:38:10 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: razorback-bert
I wish I could give you more data, but I believe it was Chichen, an obviously Norse-influenced site, and not Yaxhilan.

I might also note the many sites along the Atlantic seaboard, they finally let the northernmost one, at the very north tip of Newfoundland, be excavated in the Sixties, but there are 30 or 40 others in Newfl. alone, also some 30 in Nova Scotia, some 300 in New England, and a dozen south of that.

Holand and others have found about 200 norse objects in Minnesota, (and a few in Wis, Mich, ND) pertain to the era of 1362 or the Viking era...and then there is that whole fort on the Missouri 25 miles below Pierre, SD, on the east bank, isn't that Norse? Certainly European and medieval.

Yes, as I note the KRS has been debunked to death, but nobody ever seems to really convince anyone but himself, the stone is still there...

Magazines Atlantis Rising and Ancient American,

Site in New Hampshire just N of Boston, very good, aka America's Stonehenge.

Books by Pohl, Horsford, novels about the settlements. According to Edgar Cayce, viking settlements were continual and ongoing 1000-1500 in Massachusetts. Indeed, Mass and RI were Vinland, says he, and the suffix -sett (place of sett-lement, place fit for sett-lement) exists only there on the whole seaboard as a place name: Massachu-setts, Naragan-sett Bay, Nau-set, Somer-set, Assawompsett, Poppones=sett, look at a map, there are hundreds, each one once a Viking farm.

39 posted on 01/09/2002 6:45:08 PM PST by crystalk
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To: PUGACHEV
At Chichen, they have all those hundreds of columns carved like warriors of different peoples, many many are Vikings, very nordic features, also Semitic and Negroes quite a few.
40 posted on 01/09/2002 6:47:04 PM PST by crystalk
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To: jrewingjr
"Anyone interested in Pre-Columbian North American history and archeology will enjoy this site, VERY interesting. Ancient American Magazine.

Just received my second copy. Interesting 'stuff.'

41 posted on 01/09/2002 6:51:59 PM PST by blam
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To: crystalk
The Nunnery, in the southern group of ruins, contains some of the best preserved structures at Chichén Itzá.

Every square foot of wall has reliefs and paintings decorating it.

42 posted on 01/09/2002 7:04:08 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: crystalk
Cohasset, Quissett, Sipsewissett, Segregansett.
43 posted on 01/09/2002 7:09:54 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
Well done ... is there a picture of the runestone?
44 posted on 01/09/2002 7:13:17 PM PST by bvw
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To: crystalk
Richard Feynman was quite an expert on Mayan culture and got me interested, so naturally I had to go see for myself. One guide book sold in Cancun has a photo of The Observatory taken by moi.

Not this one though


45 posted on 01/09/2002 7:22:34 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: razorback-bert
As I recall it the Nunnery, like the other structures at Chichen, had very rough surfaces in its interior spaces. I guess that you might find carvings or bas reliefs there, but honestly, I don't remember any murals or any interior surface finished enough to be suitable for a mural.
46 posted on 01/09/2002 7:22:34 PM PST by PUGACHEV
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To: bvw
The museum at Alexandria, Minn, has website www.runestonemuseum.org, but for better picture try:

http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/kens/kens4.gif

47 posted on 01/09/2002 7:28:52 PM PST by crystalk
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To: Aristophanes; blam
Picture avail alert.

You notice that for some reason, even though the back is all chiseled off nice and could be written as well as the front, they finished off the writing on the SIDE of the stone when they got 60% of the way down the front...

WHY? Were they going to stick it in the ground like a tombstone? When it was found the whole thing was flat a few inches underground and clasped in the roots of an aspen tree of some 75 yrs of age.

48 posted on 01/09/2002 7:33:57 PM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
bump...
49 posted on 01/09/2002 7:41:05 PM PST by Interesting Times
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To: PUGACHEV
I will dig through my photos tomorrow and see if I can find some of the interior.
50 posted on 01/09/2002 7:50:38 PM PST by razorback-bert
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