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GAY PRO-LIFE LEADERS ARRESTED AT NATIONAL PRO-LIFE MARCH
www.PLAGAL.org ^ | Jan 22, 2002 | PLAGAL

Posted on 01/23/2002 6:22:00 AM PST by helmsman

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To: helmsman
"The pro-life movement is hurt if it's image is one of exclusionand intolerance."

Sounds as if you've learned your liberal spin r-e-a-l good. I side with the pro-lifers they don't want their message muddied by those trying to cash in on whatever press and media attention the pro-life march can attrack. Knowing the pro-homo liberal media, they would focus on one of their favorite causes, that is to make sodomy respectable. I don't think any self identified group of perverts would be welcomed if they insisted on advertising. Tolerance is way over-rated. It's responsible for much of the social problems we are now facing. Flame away!

201 posted on 01/23/2002 12:03:22 PM PST by arepublicifyoucankeepit
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To: ArGee
(m)SASU works for me....it'll keep those liberals wonderin' what we're up to.

Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for some, I'm going to have to leave. I'm going to a dinner tonight which will be attended by current and former EOD people. It should be a real blast.......er.....we should have a bang up time.......ummm.......I hope nobody blows up.......ahhhhhhh.......I mean it should be a great party.

God Bless,

EODGUY

202 posted on 01/23/2002 12:06:49 PM PST by EODGUY
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To: helmsman
Hosexuality is neither "positive or life-affirming". The sodomites and rug-munchers are a fifth column who's only purpose is to push their perversion in peoples faces and go out of their way to sow disention, then whine about the problem they caused.
If someone visits your home and you tell them you do not allow smoking in your home and they light up a smoke in your livingroom you have the right to eject that person from YOUR HOME, it is called "freedom of association".
Nellie Gray applied for and recieved the parade permit, SHE has the right to decide who may be involved and under what conditions. If the alleged pro-life perverts wanted to demonstrate AND headline their disgusting behavior they should have gotten their own parade permit.
203 posted on 01/23/2002 12:30:26 PM PST by Unbeliever
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To: helmsman
If you believed that the only healthy meat to eat were fish and walked down the street with a banner proclaiming your beliefs, would you welcome someone with a poster that said: "Fish Is Good Too!" -- National Beef-Eaters Association?

How about if you were sponsoring a parade promoting what you would consider to be the 'natural-ness' of homosexuality and someone showed up with a poster that stated: "HOMOSEX GOOD! -- National Man-Boy-Infant-Beastial Sex and Thinking-About-Corpses and Cannibalism-Next Society?

204 posted on 01/23/2002 1:17:35 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: helmsman
"Gay Pro-lifer" has the ring of an oxymoron.

The Homosexual Lifestyle, or "The Great Gay Lie" is not a promotion of life, but a culture of death.

The militant homosexual lobby would like us all to believe that homosexuality is perfectly normal :"Nothing to see here folks, move along!"

This just isn't the case. I'm simply astounded that people have been frightened into silence over the propagation of mass pervesion.

Homosexuality is a severe and disturbing disorder which is typically derived from some psychological trauma so devastating that the individual can longer recognize their own sex despite the obvious evidence that God has placed in front of them.

There has never been any viable evidence to prove contrary to this fact.

The shocking nature of homosexuality is not only offensive to the savy, stable psyche, it is an affront to nature itself.

The decent into to homosexual lifestyle, the "Great Gay Lie" is a path sown with deception, depression, disease and paved with the misery of friends, family and loved ones. The corruption promoted by the militant homosexual lobby feeds this cycle of despair with the lives of our innocent loved ones.

Those afflicted with this life-destroying malady need to seek both psychological and if necessary medical help immediately.

The message simply isn't consistant with that of the the pro-life movement. It's like making a peace agreement with Yassar Arafat.

205 posted on 01/23/2002 1:24:33 PM PST by Caipirabob
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Comment #206 Removed by Moderator

To: orcmasher
I understand, but my concern is that when you join with a group that has a major opposing view in some arenas, you are taking a chance of legitamizing their cause and that can come back to bite you later.

I fail to see the logic in saving the child only to have them preyed upon by a group that gained legitimacy by joining with a single rightious cause.

It's not a promising scenario, particularly when so many of these people prey upon children.

In Broward and Dade County, homosexual activists are seeking to gain entrance into public schools and indoctrinate children during sex education classes by teaching the "Glisen Manual". If you haven't heard of the "Gay and Lesbian Alliance Manual" on sexual practice, it is basically a XXX homosexual practice guide. They'd like to have people who are approved by Glisen instruct children in homosexual practices, introducing it as a normal aspect of sexual relations, which it is not.

By joining with such people, you cause far more harm than good. No one should be decieved by this article. The ultimate objective is to legitimize homosexual behavior.

With the help of Steve Kane, we are winning this battle in Broward and Dade. Don't help further the cause of the enemy by allying with those who would prey upon your children because you'll get three or four more people to show up at an abortion clinic protest.

207 posted on 01/23/2002 2:06:49 PM PST by Caipirabob
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Comment #208 Removed by Moderator

To: cake_crumb
PLAGAL sees their mission as speaking to the homosexual community, the female part of which has been instrumental in legalizing and promoting abortion. I was told that in general homosexual men did not give a darn about abortion until they made a bargain with the lesbians: we'll support abortion rights and you support AIDS lobbying effort.

That is why they publicly identify themselves as homosexuals, to send a message to their own, who might otherwise be reflexively pro-abortion, without for a moment considering that the religious right just might be right on this one. Considering the influence of the homosexual culture in this country, if they can be shifted on this, I'll take it.

Mrs VS

209 posted on 01/23/2002 2:23:02 PM PST by VeritatisSplendor
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To: helmsman
I trust that you will understand that my reply was to the ethics of the situation -- not the morals.
210 posted on 01/23/2002 2:42:09 PM PST by Eastbound
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To: orcmasher
When ANYTHING is more important then saving a child you are no better then an abortionist.

Hey, I don't want to see it happen either. I will pray for your success.

We each pick our own battles. I admire your devotion to yours. I believe that through your commitment that eventually you will be able to convince people of the truth of your cause.

My chosen battle lies along a different front of the war for the very soul of our nation.

In the end, I believe we're both fighting on the same side. I'm just confronting a different face of the enemy.

Again, I will pray for your success.

211 posted on 01/23/2002 3:19:00 PM PST by Caipirabob
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To: ArGee
What if that same person, instead of kissing other people, just looked at them and thought about kissing them. Does that count as sexual behavior?

I think I already addressed that one. No, it does not.


What about holding hands? I'm not trying to split ridiculous hairs here, as it may seem I am doing. But, for instance, when I was dating the aforementioned virgin, we didn't hold hands until 2-3 dates. Didn't kiss until 4-5 dates. I don't believe that she had no sexuality when I met her, but she suddenly acquired it as a result of going out with me! My contention is that people have sexuality, regardless of whether or not it is expressed physically. A person can be heterosexual for no other reason than they have feelings for the opposite sex, expressed physically or not.

PS... never date a virgin! : )
212 posted on 01/23/2002 3:34:56 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: ArGee;Arthur McGowan;helmsman;EODGUY;Khepera;proud2bRC
"Should "Klansmen for Life" be permitted? How about "Rapists for Life?" Maybe "Islamic Suicide Bombers for Life?" "

Heck, no. And here's why: The most basic tenets of pro-life wisdom recognize equal rights regardless of sex, skin color, religion, physical soundness, or age; and defend rights that do not come at the expense of others, unborn children, for example but certainly not excluding any of the victims of the reprehensible KKK, rapists, Islamic terrorists, pedophiles, wife-beaters, murderers,(or liberal democrats.) The groups you compare to PLAGAL all violate those beliefs.

Now, the minute a gay male tries to seduce one of my nephews, he is a pedophile and deserves a very long sentence in a cramped, dingy, roach-infested hole without "climate-control", at the very least. These men are out there, I know it. But not all gay men are that way, and you know it. To presume so is as ignorant as stereotyping all pro-lifers as clinic bombers.

213 posted on 01/23/2002 4:02:36 PM PST by hillsborofox
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To: all
I'm familiar with what happened at this incident and it revolved around the homosexual militants trying to link the pro-life march with legitimizing the homosexual lifestyle. They have done this time and time again and I am glad to see that for once someone stood up to them. I have been to rallies where these kooks were present and all they are concerned with is trying to advance their bizarre homosexual agenda. They seem to only support the pro-life movement as an afterthought. I support everyone who's truly pro-life, but these creeps have a perverted agenda that just can't be tolerated. We need to draw the line somewhere and clearly the right thing was done.
214 posted on 01/23/2002 7:52:27 PM PST by Bill Jones for GOV
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To: Stone Mountain
Should my dear wife depart for home before I do, I will obviously not be looking for a young girl so I doubt I will seek out a virgin. But I will seek out someone chaste - that is, who reserves her sexuality for marriage.

My contention is that people have sexuality, regardless of whether or not it is expressed physically.

We're splitting hairs over definitions. My point is that people have lots of thoughts, some good and some bad. Unless you are mentally ill, you can train yourself to think in the way that you want to think. If you have sinful thoughts - lustful, envious, greedy, those need to be dealt with. But the punishment comes for giving into them, not for having them.

I once read a report about a society in some remote area where the men were fully homosexual until they turned 18, then they established monagomous heterosexual relationships for the rest of their lives. They were taught to think that way, and it worked for them.

And yes, thoughts have crossed my mind (I'm not going to detail which sins, but more than one) that I would be ashamed to act out. In order to train my mind, I learned to shut those down as quickly as possible. The Bible calls this "taking every thought captive" and it is a valuable tool.

Shalom.

215 posted on 01/24/2002 5:41:18 AM PST by ArGee
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To: hillsborofox
Heck, no.

So, you would limit the association of those whose morality disagrees with yours, but you would deny Nellie the same right?

Whether or not I agreed with her decision, it was her right to make it. If she doesn't want her march tainted with the sin of homosexuality, she is no less correct defending that than if she doesn't want it tainted with the sin of the Klan.

Shalom.

216 posted on 01/24/2002 5:44:48 AM PST by ArGee
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To: helmsman; Bill Jones for Gov; George W. Bush; Clint N Suhks; Kevin Curry
Personally, I believe the actions taken to defend the Pro-Life March from being undermined by being associated with the homosexual agenda was correct. Many pro-lifers march without the need to have a banner identifying them according to what should be their private lives.

The primary purpose of that banner was to aid the homosexual perversion in metastasizing into every aspect of our society. These people know they can use their perversion to drive more people away from conservative issues than they will ever attact. And that is their primary purpose in this. Never forget that!

217 posted on 01/24/2002 7:18:13 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: helmsman
According to Christian scripture, a perverted believer will see Heaven, while a morally upright non-believer will bathe in the fires of Hell.

Where does scripture say that sinners will enter Heaven?

218 posted on 01/24/2002 7:24:48 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: AmericanInTokyo
And you know this because........

And, unless things have changed, here in the USA, they do have the right to protest and push thier agenda.

ehhhhh wrong answer - try again with statement not based soley on ignorance - it's not becoming!

219 posted on 01/24/2002 7:25:01 AM PST by KeepUSfree
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To: ArGee
I once read a report about a society in some remote area where the men were fully homosexual until they turned 18, then they established monagomous heterosexual relationships for the rest of their lives. They were taught to think that way, and it worked for them.

I woud love to read more about that - do you have any other info or a link?
220 posted on 01/24/2002 7:45:20 AM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: FormerLib
Where does scripture say that sinners will enter Heaven?

The point I was making was that someone who sins, but believes in Jesus, will, according to the accepted Christian salvation doctrine, be saved and enter Heaven (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-13). It may be true that the person will need to first confess his sins to God and repent for them, but he will still enter. Furthermore, seeing as though Jesus made it clear that sinful thoughts will count against you to the same degree that sinful actions will (Matt 5:21-30, Mark 7:20-23), one can easily assume that even the most pious Christians will be in a state of sin when they perish, since sinful thoughts are virtually impossible to keep down completely.

So, in the context of our current issue, is it not reasonable to assume that a bible-believing Christian who happens to have strong homosexual urges which he cannot resist will also be permitted the same salvation that a heterosexual Christian who periodically falls and commits heterosexual sins will be given? If the gay Christian continues to commit sin, in thought and action (just as every straight Christian does), but receives salvation anyway, wouldn't this be a case of a gay sinner entering Heaven? Or, a pervert, as some here have claimed.

221 posted on 01/24/2002 9:10:06 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
It may be true that the person will need to first confess his sins to God and repent for them, but he will still enter.

That is correct according to Christian teachings. That is also why the current homosexual agenda is so destructive. It teaches people that what God has called an abomination is not a sin at all. Who says so? They say so. It should be apparent whom they serve.

Furthermore, seeing as though Jesus made it clear that sinful thoughts will count against you to the same degree that sinful actions will (Matt 5:21-30, Mark 7:20-23), one can easily assume that even the most pious Christians will be in a state of sin when they perish, since sinful thoughts are virtually impossible to keep down completely.

This is one of the most misquoted aspects of Christianity. Thinking about how you'd like to kill someone, even thinking about how'd you'd like to do it, is a clear example of a sinful thought. Having the thought pop into your mind and be immediately rejected is not a sin.

So, in the context of our current issue, is it not reasonable to assume that a bible-believing Christian who happens to have strong homosexual urges which he cannot resist will also be permitted the same salvation that a heterosexual Christian who periodically falls and commits heterosexual sins will be given?

Actually, now you've entered into the realm that only God can know for sure. Sin separates us from God, correct? Do you know the exact measure of sin (assuming for a second that sin could be measured) that it takes to deny salvation? Of course you don't! But you're attempting to allow yourself to think you might be "reasoning" it out via analogies.

God expects us to control our actions. Unrepentant sin is unforgiven sin.

If the gay Christian continues to commit sin, in thought and action (just as every straight Christian does), but receives salvation anyway, wouldn't this be a case of a gay sinner entering Heaven?

Can you name any such person who has entered Heaven? The thief on the cross was supposed to go to paradise that very day, but only after he had repented all of his sins. By denying that homosexuality is a sin, these folks deny their victims the possibility of repentance.

Thanks for posting the article, though. I've forwarded it around to several people who've used the enclosed e-mail address to send their support in preventing the homosexual agenda from hijacking the March For Life.

222 posted on 01/24/2002 9:50:21 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: FormerLib
That is correct according to Christian teachings. That is also why the current homosexual agenda is so destructive. It teaches people that what God has called an abomination is not a sin at all.

Whatever the problems you may have with the gay movement, the issue was whether or not gay Christians have as equal a claim to salvation through Christ as do straight Christians. The theological consensus among Christians seems to imply that they do, as long as the normal prerequisites are met. But it is a fact that straight Christians regularly fall from their observant behavior into sin. They know they are sinning, but they do it anyway because they succumb to temptation. As I understand Christian belief, this would not cause them to lose their salvation as long as they get right with God. I would assume that a gay Christian could also recover in the same way.

Thinking about how you'd like to kill someone, even thinking about how'd you'd like to do it, is a clear example of a sinful thought. Having the thought pop into your mind and be immediately rejected is not a sin.

I understand. But are you denying that contemplating sinful behavior, especially illicit sex these days, is uncommon among Christians? The Promise Keepers organization was basically founded to address this problem in the Christian Church.

Do you know the exact measure of sin (assuming for a second that sin could be measured) that it takes to deny salvation? Of course you don't! But you're attempting to allow yourself to think you might be "reasoning" it out via analogies.

No, Sir, I am simply reading Christian scripture and attempting to understand what one has to do to achieve entrance into Heaven. I don't think that's unreasonable or presumptuous for anyone to do given what is at stake, if the Christian story is true.

God expects us to control our actions. Unrepentant sin is unforgiven sin.

But we can't always control our actions, even though we may wish to. Everyone falls from sinless behavior eventually. And the only point that I made was that a heterosexual sin will buy you a ticket to Hell just as easily as a homosexual sin will.

223 posted on 01/24/2002 11:10:53 AM PST by helmsman
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To: helmsman
And the only point that I made was that a heterosexual sin will buy you a ticket to Hell just as easily as a homosexual sin will.

So long as you can acknowledge that any homosexual act is a sin.

And just remember that a cornerstone of the homosexual agenda in Christian Churches is to fool Christians into denying that homosexual acts are sinful.

224 posted on 01/24/2002 11:45:33 AM PST by FormerLib
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To: Stone Mountain
I woud love to read more about that - do you have any other info or a link?

It's an old memory - it predates the World Wide Web. If I can find anything in a search, I'll do so, but I'm not even sure how to form the query right now.

Shalom.

225 posted on 01/24/2002 1:48:16 PM PST by ArGee
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To: ArGee
"So, you would limit the association of those whose morality disagrees with yours..."

No. I said nothing about morality. Sorry, I thought it was implicit in my response that those who trample on the Constitution and Bills of Rights (felons, terrorists and Klansmen, for example) have no place at the March for Life, for obvious reasons.

"...but you would deny Nellie the same right? "

Is it her right?

The first sentence on the March for Life homepage reads: The MARCH FOR LIFE is the collective effort of grassroots prolife Americans to assure that our laws protect the right to life of each human being. Plagal is grassroots, prolife, and American. What's the problem, here? Why can't they be welcomed with the caveat, applying to all participants -- straight, gay, or liberal Democrat, that especially because the March includes so many youngsters and conservative Christians, any overt sexuality doesn't belong.

Nowhere on the Website is the March referred to as the: Nellie Gray March for Life. Ms. Gray doesn't own the March. It is a tax-exempt non-profit and therefore owes a modicum of tolerance toward law-abiding, tax-paying Americans who wish to peacefully participate in a march on their own Nation's Capital.

Listen, Argee, I wish all openly, flagrantly gay men and women would go back into their, no doubt, tastefully appointed, cedar-lined closets and stay there. What they do together in those closets I don't want to know. (I don't even want to think about...)

But they, and other atypical pro-life organizations, have an important place in the pro-life mainstream for reasons that benefit our cause and therefore the unborn.

First, they break the false stereotype of pro-lifer as right-wing, fundamentalist Christian male trying to foist his religious morality on poor, helpless women (by bombing clinics, of course.) Gay men tend not to be Baptists and most feminists are not men. This narrow stereotype has been an enormous handycap as it allows pro-aborts and the complicit media to portray all pro-lifers as one isolated group of fanatics to be dismissed or preferably jailed.

Shunning gay, feminist and atheist pro-life organizations only supports the notion of pro-lifer as Morality Cop. This is very bad PR in a very wicked PR war waged by NOW, Planned Parenthood, NARAL, et al.

I could go on and on, obviously. We may have to agree to disagree, but I enjoy the thread!

226 posted on 01/25/2002 12:23:51 PM PST by hillsborofox
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To: hillsborofox
We may have to agree to disagree, but I enjoy the thread!

We will have to agree to disagree. I will grant you a point and ask you to grant one to me.

I'll grant you, Nellie may be shooting herself in the foot by exercising her right.

Will you grant me: we have been quiet about the fact that homosexual behavior is a perversion that is better treated than tolerated for far too long?

Shalom.

227 posted on 01/25/2002 12:29:27 PM PST by ArGee
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To: helmsman
I believe it comes down to this -- Nellie got the permit for the parade, and she can legally impose restrictions of FRee speech-- ie. call the cops. PLAGAL has a different agenda, other than pure support of the one on the permit-- they were there about the GAY agenda- to suggest that anyone is trying to take away the GAY right to life is preposterous-- and PARANOID.
228 posted on 01/25/2002 12:35:34 PM PST by let freedom sing
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To: let freedom sing
The group PLAGAL, The Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians, has raised a tremendous stink within the Democrats For Life YahooGroup, of which I am a member of. A member at least for now of Democrats For Life.

I mentioned to a few individuals here that the March For Life is a private function and can invite or exclude anyone they'd like. I also mentioned that many families and kids would be uncomfortable to see the acceptance of people with a gay lifestyle to march as a group in the event. I mentioned that people with a same-sex attraction aren't excluded, however they shouldn't be advertising the Gay lifestyle as being acceptable or approved by the march sponsors. I suggested that they could find a local church and just join in the march with others in solidarity for saving the lives of innocent babies. No other political or controversial message should be displayed.

Well I tell you the people who say they preach tolerance and respect are probably the most intolerant and disrespectful people you could meet. I do hope again that PLAGAL will be excluded from this march and even arrested if they insist on crashing our event. Also, I mentioned to them that if they really want to march, they could obtain their own permit and invite all of their supporters. They didn't really have an answer to this besides calling me vicious names.

If organizations like PLAGAL or other controversial groups like "Atheists For Life", "Pagans For Life", "Adulterers For Life" or other group marches together and advertises their objectively disordered and ungodly behavior through signs and other means, I won't go, my family won't go, and I'd assume that many other families will refuse to go to future Marches For Life.
229 posted on 11/20/2003 8:38:40 PM PST by StreetCornerCatholic
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