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The Missing Gun
New York Post ^ | 25 January 2002 | John Lott

Posted on 01/25/2002 9:07:46 PM PST by mrustow

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:03:37 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

By JOHN R. LOTT, JR.

January 25, 2002 -- ANOTHER school shooting occurred last week and the headlines were everywhere the same, from Australia to Nigeria. This time the shooting occurred at a university, the Appalachian Law School. As usual, there were calls for more gun control.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; ccrm; libertarians
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Way to go, John Lott! I hadn't known the true story of this shooting at all, before Lott told it.
1 posted on 01/25/2002 9:07:46 PM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
I actually read that fact in the piece MSNBC put online. Curious, Dr. Lott doesn't mention here that Tracy Bridges is an active sheriff deputy.
2 posted on 01/25/2002 9:43:45 PM PST by americalost
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To: mrustow
Hmmm... Is Lott a lurker? There have been several threads here noting the dearth of reporting on the defending students' guns.
3 posted on 01/25/2002 9:48:22 PM PST by Redcloak
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To: Redcloak
Hm.. Could be. Either here and/or KABA. They were all over that aspect (or lack thereof) of the story, as well.
4 posted on 01/25/2002 9:56:02 PM PST by americalost
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To: americalost
Either he didn't know it, or an editor cut it for space reasons.
5 posted on 01/25/2002 10:36:32 PM PST by mrustow
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To: Redcloak
He could well be a lurker, have an assistant who does his lurking for him, or simply have friends who are FReepers, who send him material they pick up on FR.
6 posted on 01/25/2002 10:37:57 PM PST by mrustow
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To: americalost
What's "KABA"?
7 posted on 01/25/2002 10:38:24 PM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
Oh yea, this is a BIG ol' bump!
8 posted on 01/25/2002 10:38:52 PM PST by TLI
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To: mrustow
KABA is KeepAndBearArms.com

I've been checking there a looong time. All Gun News, All The Time!

9 posted on 01/25/2002 10:44:40 PM PST by americalost
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To: mrustow
From the nbc6 (a Charlotte tv station) web site ... a story from the Charlotte Observer:

1/18/02 Ex-Charlottean: I helped nab suspect

By Diane Suchetka
The Charlotte Observer

One of the four students who subdued a gunman at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia on Wednesday is an N.C. native and former Charlottean.

Mikael Gross, 34, a first-year student at the small school in Grundy, Va., told The Observer he worked as a state alcohol law enforcement agent in Charlotte from 1996 until 1998 and earned a master's degree in criminal justice at UNC Charlotte in 1997.

Two other men who helped bring the gunman under control also have worked as law enforcement officers in North Carolina - in Asheville and Wilmington, Gross said.

Gross was walking back to the law school from lunch just after 1p.m. Wednesday with four classmates when he heard a gunshot. He yelled to the others to take cover and watched as students ran from a student lounge in the administration building.

"People were running everywhere," Gross said. "They were jumping behind cars, running out in front of traffic, trying to get away."

Gross ran to his car, parked about 100 yards away, without dropping the gunman from his sight, grabbed his bullet-proof vest from his trunk and a gun from under his front seat.

While the man pointed his gun at fellow students, Gross and two others ran toward him from different directions.

One of the others was Tracy Bridges, a Buncombe County sheriff's deputy from Asheville, who also had his gun, Gross said.

When the gunman saw them, Gross said, he put his weapon down and his hands up.

The third man, Ted Besen, who has worked as a police officer in Wilmington, was not armed and ordered the gunman onto the ground. Instead, the gunman lunged at Besen, punching him in the face.

That's when a fourth student ran up and tackled the gunman. Gross and Bridges jumped on the gunman, pulled his hands behind his back and held him as he tried to fight them off.

When the gunman was under control, Gross ran back to his car for his handcuffs. Police arrived a minute or so later, he said.

Afterward Gross and the others headed into the administration building to help those who had been shot.

"There was blood everywhere," Gross said. "It looked like somebody had mopped the floor with blood."

They put some of the injured onto folding tables turned into gurneys, loaded them into SUVs and drove them to the hospital.

"I let my instinct kick in and did what any good law enforcement officer would do, what any good person would do," he said.

Gross, who graduated from Oak Ridge Military Academy in Oak Ridge in 1985 and East Carolina University in 1989, has also lived in Raleigh, Burlington and several other N.C. cities.

He worked as the director of police corps training at the N.C. Justice Academy in 1998 and 1999, he said, and the chief of police at Brevard College before heading to law school in August .

During breaks from law school, he works as a police officer in Grifton. His mother, Cecilia Wicker, lives in Charlotte.

(Emphasis mine.)

Wonder how many more would have been killed or wounded before the police got there if not for the actions of these men ... and the fact that they had weapons nearby.

10 posted on 01/25/2002 10:53:08 PM PST by kayak
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To: kayak
"if not for the actions of these men ...
and the fact that they had weapons nearby."

Action being taken and weapons in hand.

Nope, not gonna be seeing any "specials" or lead stories on "48 Hours" regarding this.

I, on the other hand will probably be emailing this story to certain "special" recipients for the next couple of years.

 

11 posted on 01/26/2002 7:26:35 AM PST by TLI
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To: TLI
Bumpbackatcha!
12 posted on 01/26/2002 10:46:46 AM PST by mrustow
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To: americalost
Thanks for the great link! Just copied and "favorited" it.
13 posted on 01/26/2002 10:48:25 AM PST by mrustow
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To: kayak
Thanks for the great post. Since the armed defenders were all LEOs or former LEOs, it seems to me, that the national media should have had no compunctions about telling the straight story. Maybe I'm overinterpreting here, but the mass media's refusal to report the full story appears to me to be due to an anti-Second Amendment phobia that runs so deep, that even LEOs using guns to apprehend criminals may be a no-no. (Remember, too, that although the shooter was an African, he's still a black man, which may have colored -- pun intended -- the media response.)
14 posted on 01/26/2002 10:54:41 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Fred25; ouroboros; ChaseR; A.J.Armitage; kattracks; mafree; B-52bomber; gonzo; Sabertooth...
Second Amendment bump!
15 posted on 01/26/2002 10:57:03 AM PST by mrustow
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To: rb22982; My Favorite Headache; Squire; snopercod; Arleigh; ppaul; Publius; Brian Allen; beowolf...
Second Amendment BUMP!
16 posted on 01/26/2002 10:58:53 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Doctor Stochastic; RikaStrom; ctonious; Cincinatus' Wife; dubyaismypresident; bulldog905; Askel5...
Second Amendment BUMP
17 posted on 01/26/2002 11:01:57 AM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
Major Bump
18 posted on 01/26/2002 11:02:28 AM PST by My Favorite Headache
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To: mrustow
If all American citizens over the age of 21 were allowed to carry concealed handguns, our country would be virtually void of violent crime.

Some of you may recoil from my contention, but remember:

AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY.

19 posted on 01/26/2002 11:02:55 AM PST by ASTM366
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To: timestax; Lavrenti; Squire; lightning; Cicero; The Engineer; dfwgator; stocksthatgoup; beowolf...
Second Amednment BUMP!
20 posted on 01/26/2002 11:05:35 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Oxonian, D-fendr, bootless, Ming_the_Merciless, Enough is ENOUGH, snopercod, antidisestablishment
Second Amendment BUMP!
21 posted on 01/26/2002 11:08:21 AM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
Thanks for posting the truth about guns being by good people to stop more murders and injuries from a deranged pyscho.

This is just more living proof that Dr John Lott's thesis and book, "More guns, Less Crime!" is very valid in today's world.

This reminds me of the school shooting where the prinicipal got his 45 service revolver from his car to stop the shootings.

Notice how the coward dropped his gun when he thought that he might get shot. He is your typical bully in action!

22 posted on 01/26/2002 11:08:43 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: mrustow
Thanks for the ping!!!
23 posted on 01/26/2002 11:10:21 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Registered, bush ranch; I am not my own, drZ, gieriscm, The_Expatriate, Hopalong, monocle...
Second Amendment BUMP!
24 posted on 01/26/2002 11:10:30 AM PST by mrustow
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To: My Favorite Headache
Recoil BUMP
25 posted on 01/26/2002 11:11:27 AM PST by mrustow
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To: ASTM366
No, I think you are correct -- but it took me a long time to see your point. It may take many others until the next life, to get it.
26 posted on 01/26/2002 11:12:37 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Grampa Dave
John Lott is a national treasure! Do you have a link on the story you mentioned? As for the shooter dropping his weapon, the moment he saw himself confronted with armed men, he sounds like a coward straight out of central casting!
27 posted on 01/26/2002 11:14:57 AM PST by mrustow
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To: mystomachisturning
My pleasure.
28 posted on 01/26/2002 11:15:28 AM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
BUMP!

Way to go, Tracy & Mikael! Chicks with guns are exceptionally cool.

Cheers, CC :)

29 posted on 01/26/2002 11:18:55 AM PST by CheneyChick
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To: *bang_list
Thanks for the ping!
30 posted on 01/26/2002 11:19:58 AM PST by TomServo
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To: mrustow
And while the media ignores this, last night on the local news out of Seattle was a story about the crazy old fart back east who drove off with a bunch of kids in a schoolbus. The big "news" was that he had a "huge arsenal" of guns in his home and "many of them were [GASP!]handguns!"

I normally never watch the news but last night I was watching the local news for the weather report because we are supposed to be getting a big storm here this weekend. I got so po'ed I shut the damn thing off and never did get the weather report.

31 posted on 01/26/2002 11:21:29 AM PST by eaglewatch
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To: mrustow
Bump
32 posted on 01/26/2002 11:28:29 AM PST by TLBSHOW
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To: CheneyChick
Was one of the defenders a female? I didn't know that.
33 posted on 01/26/2002 11:31:48 AM PST by mrustow
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To: eaglewatch
I saw that story, and had the same reaction. Here in New York, as far as the media are concerned, only psychopaths and neo-Nazis (but I'm being redundant!) have large gun collections.
34 posted on 01/26/2002 11:34:31 AM PST by mrustow
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To: Doctor Raoul
Second Amendment BUMP!
35 posted on 01/26/2002 11:36:30 AM PST by mrustow
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To: mrustow
A big 2A BUMP for this.

One thing that consistantly angers me over the media's reporting of firearms use, and especially when a felon or other nutball is stopped by firearm using citizens is the difference given between LEO's and citizens who are legally carrying.

While it is fine that these two were in law enforcement, all the proposed legislation (50 state reciprocity for carrying, carrying on aircraft, etc) are usually for law enforcement or ex law enforcement only. The law abididing citizen is left with his posterior hanging over the abyss, with no hope in sight of ever getting the 2A enforced as written. Considering the odds that an armed citizen would be much more likely to be on the scene of an incident which could be stopped by either simply the perp seeing a firearm drawn, up to the use of deadly force, it follows, if this were a logical world, that the armed citizen is more of a deterrent to crime than the LEO.

If one does not know who is carrying, the odds of successfully completing a crime decrease drastically. Robert Heinlein had it 100% right when he wrote "An armed society is a polite society".

I find it incredible that the armed citizen is treated (by press,politicians, and LEO's alike) as anywhere from a non entity to a criminal themselves. Whaat is even MORE incredible, is the father of it all, the original sin, of course being GCA'68, is not only blatantly racist, being concieved and written IMHO, due to the rioting in various cities, but also supported by government in response to the Kennedy (2), King, and the Evers shooting, but also in response to the as usual "Silent Majority" who were, at that point in time, scared s**tless by the events which were occurring.

The other interesting thing is that none of this news ever made it into military channels, whether by deliberate design or simply the beginning of the anti-2A bias which is now so obvious. As a member of the Armed Forces during this time period, one JUST DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING. NOTHING HAPPENED. Nothing about the rioting, and only the usual pabulum when it came to notables being assassinated.

Considering (adjust your tinfoil hats here folks) the distinct possibility of either official or quasi-official governmental involvement in every single high profile shooting of the '60s, is it any wonder the media got off to a wonderful supercharged start down the "Gun Control Superhighway". I know that prior to the mid 1960's, there was virtually no press at all about firearms use, except to report facts. After the '60s we started down the path we stand on today.

Keep the Faith for Freedom

MAY GOD BLESS AND DEFEND THIS HONORABLE REPUBLIC

Greg

36 posted on 01/26/2002 11:37:28 AM PST by gwmoore
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To: mrustow
Thanks for the ping to an awesome thread.
37 posted on 01/26/2002 11:38:55 AM PST by Free Vulcan
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To: mrustow
I was referring to this coward in this story:

"When the gunman saw them, Gross said, he put his weapon down and his hands up.

The third man, Ted Besen, who has worked as a police officer in Wilmington, was not armed and ordered the gunman onto the ground. Instead, the gunman lunged at Besen, punching him in the face."

Unless you are referring to the school shooting a few years ago. I don't have that reference. The principal or asst. principal was an officer in the reserve or national guard. That teenage murdering bully dropped his gun as soon as the armed principal ordered him to stop and drop the gun.

I'm sure that Bang List historians have the reference. I believe that two school shootings that year were terminated by people with guns ordering the bullies to stop shooting.

38 posted on 01/26/2002 11:45:57 AM PST by Grampa Dave
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To: mrustow
Lott's mistaken as to the Times. They did report that the students had guns. In fact, I was a bit suspicious because they emphasized that both were or had been police officers, as if to say no one who hadn't been a police officer should try this at home, etc.

That's a pretty embarrassing error to make and he especially should not make it. His arguments are too important to the cause.

39 posted on 01/26/2002 12:05:25 PM PST by Mason
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To: mrustow
You awful Right Wingers just haven't caught up to the 20th Century yet.

When you do, you'll understand why only government people should have guns.

>faux naivete off<

40 posted on 01/26/2002 12:08:37 PM PST by headsonpikes
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To: mrustow
Was one of the defenders a female? I didn't know that.

DOH! I saw the name Tracy and assumed. My bad. That would have been cool, though, if Tracy was a 'she'.... Maybe then it would have made the news??

41 posted on 01/26/2002 12:10:09 PM PST by CheneyChick
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To: ASTM366
Stand TALL because your contention is known FACT!
42 posted on 01/26/2002 12:12:53 PM PST by B4Ranch
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To: mrustow
Bump for the 2nd!
43 posted on 01/26/2002 12:30:43 PM PST by blam
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: mrustow
Thanks for the ping, but I've already seen this article
45 posted on 01/26/2002 1:25:39 PM PST by kattracks
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To: mrustow
Kudos to the NYPost for finally getting into the discussion. I appreciate that paper more and more every day.
46 posted on 01/26/2002 1:37:29 PM PST by Dec31,1999
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To: mrustow
Oh you're absolutely more than welcome. It's a great site.
47 posted on 01/26/2002 1:40:44 PM PST by americalost
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To: mrustow
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this ping.

Nobody could possibly be surprised that this most important aspect of the story was deliberately omitted by liberal, politically correct toilet papers like the Washington Post and the New York Times, but does anyone know if Fox News had the integrity to present the full story?

48 posted on 01/26/2002 1:42:40 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: mrustow
The level to which the so-called "profession" of journalism in America has fallen is simply disgusting.

They're no better than the National Socialists who wrote for Hitler's Volkisher Beobacter, the mouthpiece of the Nazi party.

49 posted on 01/26/2002 2:28:04 PM PST by snopercod
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To: technochick99;First_Salute
This might interest you both.
50 posted on 01/26/2002 2:31:38 PM PST by snopercod
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