Skip to comments.TWA Flight 800 - Someone Has Finally Talked!
Posted on 01/31/2002 5:49:54 PM PST by VectoRama
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Untrue. My argument is based on many FACTS that strongly suggest a murder and a subsequent coverup. I mentioned "some" of those facts in my post to you. Now you can either dispute the facts or accept them, but don't try to just AVOID discussing them.
In addition, military officers would have to dishonor themselves and coverup a mass murder in order to protect Clinton for your conspiracy theory to work.
First of all, military officers are the ones who blew the whistle ... the ones accusing other military officers of tampering with evidence and ignoring facts that suggest Brown was shot. We already know that the military officers who were accused of tampering with the evidence have LIED to the public about the facts in this case. That is PROVEN.
Are you so naive as to think that high level members of the military, like members of the JCS and those in command of certain operations (like the Accident Investigation Board members and management of AFIP), are not political animals ... that they would not do the bidding of superior officers and Clinton? Sorry, but UNLESS you can explain the views of the pathologists and the x-ray/photo evidence (which, according to EVERY forensic pathologist that has made a statement about them, show clear signs of a bullet wound), you are running from the facts. Unless you can explain all the other incriminating material in the case you are ignoring the obvious. Then YOUR motives become questionable.
I don't mind you disagreeing with me as long as you are willing to discuss the actual facts that are known. I could be convinced they aren't true or don't suggest what is alleged. I do mind those who won't discuss those facts but, instead, simply TRUST in an administration (Clinton's) that we all KNOW committed just about every crime you can name ... including ABUSE of the military. I do mind those who TRUST the military so much that they can't even conceive of the possibility that there are dishonorable people in the military. There are ... just like in EVERY other institution known to man.
Here's a site I found at random,. google search
The Clinton Body-Count
The following is a partial list of a large number of persons who have
recently met their demise in suspicious circumstances who appear to have
some connection to the Clintons. I stress partial because new addditions are
coming in faster than closets can be found to hide the bodies in!
White House Intern
An attractive 25 year old woman, Mary was a former White House Intern for
Bill Clinton working as the Assistant Manager at a Starbuck's Coffee shop
in Georgetown. In the pre-trial publicity surrounding Paula Jones lawsuit, and
mere days after Newsweek's Mike Isikoff had dropped hints that a "former White
House staffer" was about to go public with her story of sexual harassement at
1600 Pennsylvania, gunmen entered the Starbuck's while the crew was cleaning up
after closing. Mary's two associates were taken to a room and shot. Mary
herself had five bullets in her. No money was taken. As of this writing, Mike
Isikoff's "former White House staffer" has never appeared.
White House Counsel
died: 7/21/93 - Found dead in Ft. Marcy Park in Washington, DC, of a
supposed suicide by gunshot. A suicide note was supposedly found a fews
days later, torn into several pieces, in his briefcase, after his office
had been entered by WhiteHouse staff and materials removed. The gun which
he supposedly used to kill himself was reported to be still in his hand,
but the person who first found the body reports that there was no gun at
that time. Many irregularities surround the death and the investigation of it.
- Foster was also from Hope, Ark., like Clinton, and also worked for the Rose
Law firm. Foster had intimate knowledge of the Clintons' personal finances.
Foster was involved in an investigation of their finances, and reportedly made
a phone call to Hillary Clinton, in Little Rock, just hours before his death.
Maj. Gen. William Robertson
Deputy Commanding General, V Corps, Europe
Col William Densberger
V Corps Chief of Operations and Plans
Col. Robert Kelly
V Corps Chief of Intelligence
Spec. Gary Rhodes
died: 2/23/93 - All were killed when their helicopter crashed in Weisbaden,
Germany. No cause was ever determined. - V Corps figured prominently in the US
Bosnia-Serbia peacekeeping operations, along with the carrier Roosevelt. These
men, and 8 others associated with Clinton's visit to the Roosevelt all died
within 4 months of each other.
died: 2/28/93 - "executed" by gunfire in the Waco, Texas assault on the
Branch Davidians. - All four were examined by a "private doctor" and died
from nearly identical wounds to the left temple, so-called execution style.
According to Linda Thompson, videotapes and other evidence indicates that none
died from guns fired by Branch Davidians.
Five Navy aviators
(names not determined) died: 3/26/93 - all died in a crash of an E-2C
Hawkeye in Italy. The crash occurred shortly after the plane was "waved
off" from a landing attempt on the Carrier Roosevelt, due to a "foul deck". -
All five men had been Clinton's escorts during Clinton's visit to the Roosevelt
2 weeks prior. Three other men, who had flown Clinton to the Roosevelt for that
visit also died later in a helicopter crash.
Staff Sgt. Brian Haney
Marine Sgt. Tim Sabel
Maj. William Barkley
Capt. Scott Reynolds
died: 5/19/93 - All four men died when their helicopter crashed in the
woods near Quantico, Va. - Reporters were barred from the site, and the
head of the fire department responding to the crash described it by saying,
"Security was tight," with "lots of Marines with guns." A videotape made by a
firefighter was seized by the Marines. All four men had escorted Clinton on his
flight to the carrier Roosevelt shortly before their deaths.
C. Victor Raiser II
National Finance Co-Chairman, Clinton for President Campaign
Son of C. Victor Raiser II
died: 7/30/92 - Both men died in a private plane crash in Alaska, en route to a
fishing expedition. No cause was ever determined. Five others not connected to
Clinton died with them. - DeeDee Meyers described Raiser as a "major player" in
the Clinton organization. Victor raiser was also chairman of Mobile Telecomm
Technologies Corp., whose subsidiary, SkyTel Corp. is an international paging
company used by federal police agencies such as the=
Democratic National Committee Political Director
died: 9/24/92 - Found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock Arkansas of
"unknown causes." No autopsy allowed. - Described by Clinton as a "dear
friend and trusted advisor. Tully authored several key strategies for
Clinton and the party.
Real Estate Attorney, Clinton Fund Raisor
died: 11/30/93 - Died of gunshot to the head. Body found in deep woods in
Virginia. Ruled a suicide, no note was found, nor was any motive
identified. - Intimately involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
Attorney and Clinton fund raiser.
died: ??? - Killed when his plane exploded. Cause unknown.
Head of Clinton's Guberntorial security team in Little Rock.
died: 9/26/93 - Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside
Little Rock. - His family reported that shortly before his death, they were
being followed by unknown persons, and their home had been broken into. Parks
had been compiling a dossier on Clinton's illicit activities. The dossier was
died: ??? - Died from a gunshot suicide, similar to Vince Foster. - Was
discovered to have a "little black book" containing the names of many
influential persons in Texas and Arkansas who visited certain prostitutes.
Former Washington DC Council member
died: 5/18/93 - Found dead from an apparent hanging suicide - Suicide
appears suspicious due to an unusual number of reports made to the media
concerning his "depression". Was reported, but not proven, to have ties to the
Arkansas state trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson
died: 6/94 - allegedly committed suicide by shooting himself at the
gravesite of his fiancee - Officer Shelton was the fiancee of Kathy
Ferguson, who was the ex-wife of Trooper Danny Ferguson. Kathy Ferguson
also committed "suicide" 6/94 when she shot herself in her living room.
Oddly, next to the body were her packed bags, as if she was expecting to be
going somewhere. Danny Ferguson is a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in
Paula Corbin Jones's sexual harassment suit. His ex-wife was reported as a
corroborating witness for Ms. Jones.
Ex-wife of Trooper Danny Furguson
died: circa 5/94 - Died of a supposed gunshot suicide in her living room.
There was a suicide note found by the body. However, friends were surprise at
having noticed nothing wrong previously. And even more curious, found nearby
were several packed suitcases, as if she expected she was going somewhere. She
was the former wife (since changed her name) of Trooper Danny Ferguson, who is
the Arkansas State Trooper alleged to have escorted Paula Corbin Jones to the
hotel room for her alleged episode of sexual harrassment by then-Governor
Clinton. Ferguson's wife was reported as a possible corroborating witness for
Attorney representing Mr. Lassater in a case concerning alleged financial
died: circa 5/94 - Died in an alleged suicide by jumping out of a window of a
multi-story building. - Mr. Lassater was a close associate of Gov. Clinton, and
was later indicted on drug related charges, among other things.
Dr. Ronald Rogers
Dentist from Arkanasas
Killed in plane crash as he was on his way to an interview with a "London
Sunday Telegraph" reporter to reveal some Clinton dirt.
Partner in Memphis law firm investigating Madison Guaranty. His 300 page
report has never been released.
Accountant subcontracting to CIA related to the Barry Seal case. Dead of
three gunshot wounds to the head.
Wilhite was an associate of Mack McClarty's former firm. Wilhite died in a
skiing accident on December 21, 1992.
: Had affair with Clinton when he was attorney general. Died of "suicide"
with gunshot wound to the back of her head. No autopsy performed. Was
pregnant at time of her death. Some say it was Clintons.
Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf
died: 12/9/92 -Died in a one-car accident with no known witnesses. Her body was
thrown 33 feet from the car. A very attractive women, Paula traveled
extensively with Clinton from 1978 until her death.
Washington attorney investigating government corruption
died: 6/22/93 - Found dead on a toilet in his Washington apartment. No
cause of death was ever determined. - At the time of his death, he was
investigating connections between the "October surprise" during the 1980
federal election campaign and drug and gun-running out of Mena, Arkansas,
as well as the BATF assault on the Waco, Texas Branch Davidians. Was
planning on producing a television documentary on his findings. He had
delivered a 99-page affidavit to Janet Reno three weeks before his death.
Jon Parnell Walker
RTC investigator Mysteriously fell to his death from an apartment balcony. The
same apartment which was alleged to have been a secret getaway which Foster may
DEAD COMMERCE DEPARTMENT
Former Chairman, DNC; Commerce Secretary
died: 5/3/96 - Ron Brown died along with 39 other people when the T-43 (a
converted 737 used by the Air Force) carrying the group on a trip to Bosnia
crashed while approaching the Dubrovnik airport. On the verge of being indicted
and having stated publicly his willingness to make a deal with prosecutors, Ron
Brown's death brought to an end the investigations into the Commerce
Department. (NOTE: Also belongs under dead fundraisers)
Commerce Department Staffer
died: 11/29/96 -As the scandals continued to swirl around the Commerce
Department, and most of all about John Huang, one of Huang's associates,
Barbera Wise, was found dead in her locked office at the Department of
Commerce, partially nude and covered with bruises. No cause of death has
ever been announced. Oddly enough, following the discovery of her body,
Bill Clinton made an unscheduled return to the White House from Camp David,
claiming he needed a book of poetry in order to complete his inauguration
Assistant Secretary of Commerce for International Economic Policy.
died: UNK - Following Ron Brown's death, John Huang was placed on a
Commerce Department contract that allowed him to retain his security
clearence by Charles Meissner. Shortly thereafter, Charles Meissner died in the
crash of a small plane.
THE HENRY IVES DEATHS
Kevin Ives & Don Henry
Initial cause of death was reported to be the result of falling asleep on a
railroad track in Arkansas on August 23, 1987. This ruling was reported by the
State medical examiner Fahmy Malak. Later it was determined that Kevin died
from a crushed skull prior to being placed on the tracks. Don had been stabbed
in the back. Rumors indicate that they might have stumbled upon a Mena drug
Keith had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. Died in a motorcycle
accident in July 1988 with unconfirmed reports of a high speed car chase.
McKaskle has information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He was stabbed to death in
Greg had information on the Ives/Henry deaths. He died from a gunshot wound to
the face in January 1989.
He had information on the deaths of Ives, Henry & McKaskle. His burned body was
found in a trash dump in April 1989. He died of a gunshot wound to the head and
there was some body mutilation, leading to the probably speculation that he was
tortured prior to being killed.
Milam had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was decapitated. The
state Medical examiner, Fahmy Malak, initially ruled death due to natural
Winters was a suspect in the deaths of Ives & Henry. He was killed in a
"robbery" in July 1989 which was subsequently proven to be a setup.
Kettleson had information on the Ives & Henry deaths. He was found shot to
death in the front seat of his pickup in June 1990.
Chairman, National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee
- Counsel to Mr. Heard died: 9/10/93 - Both died in a plane crash outside
Dulles airport, after their aircraft, rented after Heard's personal craft
developed troubles, crashed while attempting an emergency landing after
reporting a fire on board. - Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's
advisory council, also personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather, and
Vice Chairman, Arkla, Inc.
died: 12/21/92 - Died in a one-person skiing accident. - Wilhite had
extensive ties with Clinton and Mack McLarty, with whom he visited by
telephone just hours before his death.
Wounded or attempted murder:
: Not dead, but beaten near death and left for dead. Had videotapes of
Clinton breaking into Gennifer Flowers' apartment. His tapes were taken.
: Court clerk. Had millions of dollars laundered through his account at
Lasater & Co without his knowledge. Four attempts on his life.
: Reporter investigating Clinton scandals. Attacked at his hotel room in
Little Rock. His notes were stolen.
: Former official at ADFA and author of "The Clinton Chronicles." The man
who broke many of the Clinton scandal stories. Several attempts on his life.
Sadly, the list goes on......
There's more out there, these are enough to make a point. and how about them "missing' FBI files? WHOOPS! found em laying around the ole office here in the whitehouse, no idea they were here......Geez tons of stuff, free republic must have gigs of material on this subject back in the filez...
blackmail, bribery, threats and worse--all used to get people to do what you want them to do, tried and true tactics....
WRONG. Several high ranking military officers ... MAJORS, COLONELS and CAPTAINS ... have ALREADY come forward to contradict the official story. Some have even made SWORN STATEMENTS alleging that others in the military tampered with evidence to hide what appears to be a MURDER. I suggest you go to the www.newsmax.com site and read the articles by Christopher Ruddy before commenting further because you clearly don't know the facts in the case.
However, most of the men and women in these two institutions are honorable and would have no reason to protect Clinton.
Most are honorable but MOST do not know any more about the facts in the case than you apparently do. They are no better informed than most civilians since they get their news from the same biased media sources and same BOGUS crash investigation report and Air Force press releases.
Second, they DO have reason to keep quiet. All they have to do is look at what the military leadership under Clinton did to the majors, colonels and other whistleblowers who did come forward. THEY DESTROYED THEIR CAREERS AND EVEN THREATENED THEM WITH JAIL. And if you don't believe this, then go read the interviews with the Captain Janowski, the military photographer who took the pictures of the x-rays at the examination that have caused so much consternation.
Fine ... but I began this conversation with you by pointing out that large scale coverups CAN occur with military, Whitehouse and NTSB involvement. You haven't shown ANYTHING to suggest that didn't happen in the Brown case ... which weakens your argument that it couldn't happen period.
By the way, I respect www.newsmax.com just as much as I respect WorldNetDaily.com. Absolutely zero -- the National Enquirer of conservatism.
Sure ... make an unfounded smear as your argument like democRATS usually do. If you can point out ANYTHING untrue in the articles posted on Newsmax.com regarding Ron Brown's death then DO SO ... otherwise you are just AVOIDING the facts ... another characteristic of democRATS.
While you are at it why you tell us what news sources you rely on to find the facts?
And all the men on the ship that allegedly fired the missile that downed TWA Flight 800. What about their honor that you appear so willing to deny?
I'm not saying anything specific about TWA800 although there are a lot of aspects of the official version of events that do not jibe with the facts. I am simply pointing out that your argument that it couldn't be a coverup because a bunch of military officers, government officials and NTSB people would have to be involved is not necessarily valid. The FACTS in the Brown case prove that.
Doesn't sound like you respect the military if you think they would condone mass murder to save their careers.
Don't try that with me. I respect the military. YOU are the one IGNORING the many MILITARY OFFICERS who came forward in the Brown case to point out that something was fishy. YOU are the one DISHONORING those individuals. YOU are the one who wishes to PRETEND that there can't be bad apples in high positions who WOULD condone mass murder if ORDERED to by the President of the United States. YOU are the one IGNORING the lessons of history. YOU are the one trying to DEFEND the likes of Bill Clinton.
Oh, I forgot. The Air Force was part of the coverup.
Well explain this. Why was this the first crash in Air Force HISTORY (except for one friendly fire shoot down in Iraq where the cause was immediately obvious) to SKIP the Safety Board part of the normal Air Force investigation. Instead they just held an Accident Investigation Board. You do realize, don't you, that the Safety Board is the part of the crash investigation process SPECIFICALLY charged with "FINDING THE CAUSE" of the crash. The Accident Investigation Report (that you refer to) is meant to provide a document for use in any legal actions that follow.
So tell me why your report doesn't even mention the FACT that pathologists at the examination of Brown's body said the wound looked like a bullet wound and called for an autopsy (which, by the way, was refused on orders from the Whitehouse and JCS)? Hummm? Don't you think the families of the victims and their lawyers would have wanted to know that?
Why doesn't that report even MENTION the existance of x-rays that suggest a lead snowstorm (according EVERY pathologist that has made a statement about them). A lead snowstorm is indicative of a bullet wound. You don't suppose the families and their lawyers would have wanted to know that?
And I could go on and on listing FACTS that your BOGUS report doesn't even mention which lawyers would definitely want to know. Why is it that the families of the victims had to learn about these facts YEARS after the crash when the whistleblowers whose careers the Air Force RUINED made those FACTS known?
Can you say Y2K? I know you could.
I have no clue what you are referring to so I'll ask you again to specifically point out any errors, misrepresentations or lies in the reports by Ruddy on the Brown case. If you can't do it then your smear against Newsmax is GROUNDLESS as far as this case is concerned. You do realize that everything in Ruddy's articles has been cooberated in interviews by others with some of the principles (like Captain Janowski)?
Your facts conflict with the Air Force report.
NO. The Air Force Report conveniently doesn't mention the facts. FACT: I can name SIX pathologists involved in the Brown case or who have looked at the x-rays and photos since who say the wound looked like a bullet wound and Brown should have been autopsied. You won't be able to name ANY except Dickerson, head of AFIP, who I can prove LIED about the nature of the wound and the opinions of his staff (the pathologists). Even the pathologist who was in charge of the examination and is quoted in the report (Gormley) has now admitted that what he stated in the report was INCORRECT and that Brown should have been autopsied. And I could name many other facts that just conveniently were never mentioned in that report. Tell me, does that report explain the loss of transponder and radio contact when the plane was still 8 miles from the crash site? Well does it?
When did I defend Clinton or dishonor a single military officer?
Well you are in essence saying that Colonel Cogswell, Captain Janowski and several other military officers at AFIP are LIARS and that it was ok for the Air Force leadership to destroy their careers rather than simply show them that they are wrong about the facts they have alleged. And in doing that you ARE defending Clinton.
Hmmmm, I didn't know submarines had surface to air missles. Aside from that, If anyone on a sub saw a plane crash into the sea, the sub would have stayed on the surface to enhance their speed to the crash site.
If there is one thing I'm sure of it is that no sailor would leave anyone in peril on the sea, friendly or enemy, orders or not. That is as it should be.
A governments credibily is built up over time, and trust is earned.
Reread the report. It does not say a submarine fired a missile.