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Anarchy vs. the Right to Life
Mercurial Times ^ | February 11, 2002 | Aaron Armitage

Posted on 02/12/2002 3:33:17 PM PST by A.J.Armitage

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To: A.J.Armitage
Good column. No system of political ideas can be perfect and there's no shame in adjusting theory to reality. A system that presumes the existence of rational, independent, individuals who seek there own benefit, will have to consider the claims of those who cannot speak for themselves. Otherwise it will commit grave injustices. Allowing some to speak on behalf of those without voices may open the way to wider state powers, but nothing in this world is pure and perfect and choices have to be made between alternatives neither of which is purely good or bad.
101 posted on 02/12/2002 8:15:01 PM PST by x
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To: VRWC_minion
This whole anarchy idea is so off the mark from any sense of reality it is breathtaking.

If you mean, the idea that there is the possibilty of a society without a government, I agree. If you mean, the idea that moral intelligent men can live in a society without a government, I dissagree. This difference in principle is important. The only reason there is government is because societies are comprised primarily of immoral individauls. In a hypothetical moral society, government would serve no purpose whatsoever. The problem is ultimately the stuff society is made of, and until that problem can be solved, there is no political solution.

Hank

102 posted on 02/12/2002 8:16:20 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
A bit of fun here. My apologies to those who find this impertinent...

Those Who Can and Those Who Can't Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, counsel. Those who can't counsel, administrate. Those who can't administrate, enter data into the computer. Those who can't enter data into the computer, take dictation. Those who can't take dictation, alphabetize files. Those who can't alphabetize files, answer the phone.

Those who can't answer the phone, fry hamburgers. Those who can't fry hamburgers, run the cash register. Those who can't run the cash register, wait on tables. Those who can't wait on tables, carry dishes to the kitchen. Those who can't carry dirty dishes to the kitchen, wash the dirty dishes. Those who can't wash the dirty dishes, peel potatoes.

Those who can't peel potatoes, buff the floor. Those who can't buff the floor, haul out the garbage. Those who can't haul out the garbage, write poetry. Those who can't write poetry, write clever letters to the editor. Those who can't write clever letters to the editor, write angry letters to the editor. Those who can't write angry letters to the editor, spray paint graffiti. Those who can't spray paint graffiti, write screenplays. Those who can't write screenplays, write TV scripts.

Those who can't write TV scripts, read scripts for the studios. Those who can't read scripts for the studios, act. Those who can't act, take acting classes. Those who can't take acting classes, sing. Those who can't sing, sing Rock 'N' Roll. Those who can't sing Rock 'N' Roll, sing it anyway. Those who can't sing it anyway, become depressed. Those who can't become depressed, get bitter. Those who can't get bitter, get confused. Those who can't get confused, stay confused. Those who stay confused, find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences. Those who find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences, ____________________.

103 posted on 02/12/2002 8:16:55 PM PST by jmp702
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To: jmp702
......Those who stay confused, find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences. Those who find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences, ____________________.

Those who stay confused, find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences. Those who find it difficult to complete unfinished sentences, become President of the United States.

Hank

104 posted on 02/12/2002 8:22:59 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
...and then engage in a war(?) that _____________.
105 posted on 02/12/2002 8:37:06 PM PST by jmp702
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To: A.J.Armitage
Is Sobran advocating a return to feudalism?

The problem with hiring a "defensive agency" (also sometimes called mercenaries) is that the people with the weapons tend to write the rules, if not immediately, then eventually. And the fees that are at first offered as wages will soon come to be extracted at sword-point as tribute. History, especially ancient history, shows many examples of this.

106 posted on 02/12/2002 8:41:15 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: jmp702
Well, see, you are definitely a candidate for the presidency, not being able to complete that very easy sentence. This is the war that will, let's see, "make the world safe for democracy," hmmm, or maybe, "end all wars," hmm, no, wait a minute, I've got it, "rid the world of terrorism," yep, that's it.

Hank

107 posted on 02/12/2002 8:53:35 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
The problem with hiring a "defensive agency" (also sometimes called mercenaries) is that the people with the weapons tend to write the rules, if not immediately, then eventually. And the fees that are at first offered as wages will soon come to be extracted at sword-point as tribute. History, especially ancient history, shows many examples of this.

The problem with electing a "defensive agency" (also sometimes called the government) is that the people with the weapons tend to write the rules, if not immediately, then eventually. And the fees that are at first offered as payment will soon come to be extracted at sword-point as taxes. History, especially modern history, shows many examples of this.

Hank

108 posted on 02/12/2002 8:59:09 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: RLK
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian To get into some crackpot discussion over wheth we're going to have the kind of society where I'm going to ned to hire Samuri as a remedy for a crime committed against me is not my cup of tea tonight. 93 posted on 2/12/02 8:42 PM Pacific by RLK

Ahh... I agree.

109 posted on 02/12/2002 9:10:46 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: Demidog
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian What's the punishment for the murder of a child or unborn baby? 96 posted on 2/12/02 8:49 PM Pacific by Demidog

I believe that the murder of a child should carry, as a maximum - but appropriate - penalty, Capital Punishment as sentence upon conviction.

110 posted on 02/12/2002 9:12:30 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: A.J.Armitage
You know that, and I know that, but JMJ333 doesn't. If you allow agencies to go past punishing crimes against their clients, there's no structural reason not to have agencies punishing whatever someone's willing to pay for.

I'd like to see where I advocated anything except upholding the law in regard to prostitution and drug abuse. I've been advocating societal standards, and somehow you've interpreted that to mean government agencies going past punishment. Seems to me there is always a way to twist out of having to deal with concrete truths. Prostitution, as well as drug use, are indeed immoral and should remain illegal.

111 posted on 02/12/2002 9:21:43 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: Demidog, A.J.Armitage
Ok. Well-stated. Now. Tell us how you intend to catch women who commit abortions. In your perfect state, let's assume that the state has the duty to protect the rights of the unborn (I'm not so sure this is true but for arguments sake lets say it is.) What is your plan for catching and trying these criminals? What's the punishment? In the case of a miscarriage, does the state have the right to invade the woman's medical records or subpeona her doctor to "prove" the unprovable?

Generally, No. Subpoenas can only follow the admission of a valid Charge.

Biblical Law specifies the evidentiary requirement for the introduction of a valid Charge. (more below)

I await your plan with eagerness.

If I may speak for A.J., here is our plan:

Capital Cases should require the evidentiary testimony of at least two knowledgeable witnesses.
Short of Oath or Affirmation, No Warrants shall issue.

Specifics could go into depth and include diverse considerations, but that will serve as a fundamental basis.

112 posted on 02/12/2002 9:28:00 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: JMJ333, Demidog, A.J.Armitage
Prostitution, as well as drug use, are indeed immoral and should remain illegal.

Prostitution is not illegal in Nevada.

Should it be, or not? And on what Biblical Basis?

IMHO, preaching the illegitimate ecclesial claims of the Bishop of Rome as the "Vicar of Christ" is immoral, and ensnares far more "clientele" worldwide than even the most entrepreneurial prostitute. (NOTE TO BAN-HAPPY MODERATORS: This is ONLY my own ecclesial opinion and is offered as a point of hyperbole, reductio ad absurdum!!)

But, much as I might (and do) consider Romanism to be immoral, I don't believe that I have Biblical Basis to outlaw it.

So, BIBLICALLY, what immoralities should the State prohibit, and why?

113 posted on 02/12/2002 9:36:00 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Fascinating that you couldn't pass up the temptation to compare prostitution to the term "vicar of Christ". You'll have to excuse me for not debating, but I really have nothing to say to you.
114 posted on 02/12/2002 9:45:50 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: A.J. Armitage
Excuse me for posting the meaning of Vicar of Christ on your thread, but I wanted to post a definition so any lurkers might be able to read it and see that teaching people about the term and women selling themselves aren't comparable.

Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi).

A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19. In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.

115 posted on 02/12/2002 9:49:34 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333, Demidog, A.J.Armitage
Fascinating that you couldn't pass up the temptation to compare prostitution to the term "vicar of Christ". You'll have to excuse me for not debating, but I really have nothing to say to you.

Respectfully, I know full well that my argument could apply equally well to Presbyterianism, if presbyterianism be false.

I'm talking about the fact that false preaching is, by definition, spiritual whoredom. Either Rome, or Presbytery, is false. Either Rome, or Presbytery, is enslaving men's souls to a false Gospel in a way to which no bodily prostitute could possibly compare.

What authority has the State to ban bodily whoredom, but permit spiritual fornication?

Should it attempt to proscribe both... or neither, having no authority to do so?

116 posted on 02/12/2002 9:54:06 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: JMJ333
Fascinating that you couldn't pass up the temptation to compare prostitution to the term "vicar of Christ". You'll have to excuse me for not debating, but I really have nothing to say to you.

EXCEPT...

Excuse me for posting the meaning of Vicar of Christ on your thread, but I wanted to post a definition so any lurkers might be able to read it and see that teaching people about the term and women selling themselves aren't comparable.

Vicar of Christ (Lat. Vicarius Christi). etc. etc. etc....

Why in the world would anyone confuse what OrthodoxPresbyterain said with what your saying. This is lent, and you should be more understanding.

Hank

117 posted on 02/12/2002 9:59:30 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
I always show a decency to people who I debate, except in those rare instances when I lose my temper. This occurs when my faith is ripped to shreds, which is what happens each and every time I debate with OP and a handful of others on this forum. It is indeed lent, and I intend to be good. Therefore, I'm not going to get into a theological debate with him, which is what he is trying to bait me into. =)
118 posted on 02/12/2002 10:06:06 PM PST by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
This is an honest question, I'm not being bellicose; When one says vicar of Christ are they implying the pope is vicariously Christ or in place of Christ, Christians may experience Christ through the pope?
119 posted on 02/12/2002 10:07:09 PM PST by week 71
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To: week 71
No..not at all. Simply it means that he is the head of Christ's church on earth--His replacement. Christ handed the keys to Peter and told him upon this rock I build my church. It means the Pope has Authority passed down to him by Christ to lead his flock.
120 posted on 02/12/2002 10:09:50 PM PST by JMJ333
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