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To: Rokke
1. Would you "crash dive" in 20 fathoms of water.

The 637 Class boats had very small vents, and no bow planes. A "Crash Dive" would be ordering the vents opened before you left the bridge (see #3).

2. How long does it take to crash dive.

It could take a couple of minutes.

3. Is the top of the sail (where Beer says he was standing) called the bridge.


4. Would the OOD normally be accompanied only by the Corpsman on a surfaced submarine.

Normally there would be the OOD and one lookout.

20 posted on 02/28/2002 2:21:34 PM PST by SubMareener
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To: SubMareener
Thanks for the info. It's good to have an actual submariner around to verify some of the theories around here. So if we are to believe Beers, we need to accept that the USS Trepang was operating covertly, in a classified exercise, on the surface, a couple miles off the shore of Long Island in broad daylight. That in the time it took for TWA 800 to begin its self-destruction to the time it hit the water (approx 1 minute) the Pepsi sipping OOD was able to absorb the situation and order a crash dive in water he wouldn't normally operate submerged in. And finally, that a submarine that takes a couple minutes to crash dive, did so in time to film pieces of the wreckage hitting the water.

And if we are to believe Irvine, his witness offers conclusive evidence the Navy was involved in a shootdown of TWA 800, although he offers no evidence to support the claim and not even his new witness would state such a thing. In fact, he didn't even claim to see a missile. Irvine manipulates his relatively uninformative interview to try and prove his other unfounded theories. His assumption that the unidentified surface radar tracks are Navy submarines that subsequently dive when TWA 800 blows up, falls apart when you consider the only contact that could match Beer's description of his boat is the "30 knot track". Do you ever recall making 30 knots while surfaced? And if you did, would the OOD be on the bridge accompanied by a bored corpsman sharing his Pepsi's. And then imagine converting that 30 knots into a crash dive. Bow planes or not, that would be a heck of a ride. If the 30 knot track isn't the Trepang, than either the Trepang doesn't show up on radar, or it isn't within 5 miles of the accident site. Either possiblity sinks Irvine's brilliant analysis.

Bottomline, Irvine is a fraud. His witness created a story that is almost impossible to believe, and Irvine bit off on it, hook line and sinker. So much for accuracy in the media.

33 posted on 02/28/2002 5:23:53 PM PST by Rokke
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To: SubMareener; Rokke
"2. How long does it take to crash dive."

"It could take a couple of minutes."

Falltime of the Massive Fireball to the surface was only about 7-10 seconds. Sources

By the way, there is a "submarine witness" interview report:

Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:43:41 -0500
Reply-To: Flight 800 discussion list FLIGHT-800@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM
From: Tom Stalcup stalcup@MAGNET.FSU.EDU
Organization: Florida State University
Subject: More Witnesses

[excerpt][quote][emphasis his] BARBARA PACHOLK had an AMAZING story. She saw two objects rise from the water or land. The first object exploded near the tail and the second near the nose. She also saw a black submarine and its periscope. According to Ms. Pacholk, the periscope was looking in the direction of the plane, rotated about a 3/4 turn and saw her, then left the area. She believes that it is possible that at least one missile came from this sub. She also notice two large navy vessels in the ocean. One of which quickly left the area after the tragedy.[end quote]

Stalcup was referred to by Bill Donaldson during his congressional testimony, the transcript of which was earlier posted in this thread.

177 posted on 03/06/2002 6:31:28 PM PST by Asmodeus
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