Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

CITIZENS’ TRUTH-IN-TAXATION HEARING
We the People Organization ^ | 03/04/02 | Bob Schulz

Posted on 03/04/2002 2:19:12 PM PST by Dementon

 

OPENING REMARKS by Bob Schulz

CITIZENS’ TRUTH-IN-TAXATION HEARING

Good morning ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the Citizens’ Truth-in-Taxation Hearing.

On behalf of myself and the We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education, I extend a very heartfelt welcome to all of you in our audience today, to the thousands of people who are watching theses proceedings via our live web cast and to the countless thousands who will later be watching via digital and taped recordings of the hearing.

We are happy to sponsor this most extraordinary educational event.

WELCOME ALL.

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA:

DO WE STILL RECOGNIZE IT AS THE BASIS OF OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT IN AMERICA, OR NOT?

DO WE STILL HAVE A CONSTITUTION THAT GUARANTEES OUR UNALIENABLE RIGHTS AS THE SOVEREIGN CITIZENS OF A GREAT AND FREE NATION, OR NOT?

DO WE HAVE A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND STATE GOVERNMENTS THAT HONOR AND DEFEND THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES OF EQUAL JUSTICE, DUE PROCESS OF LAW, THE RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY --- THE PRINCIPLES THAT REPRESENT THE VERY FOUNDATION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT, OR NOT?

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW IF WE STILL HAVE A CONSTITUTION.

This is a copy of a message we published in the NY Times on Sunday, February 10th.

At the top of the ad we quote Alan Dershowitz, a prominent, nationally recognized Professor of Law at Harvard University, saying that:

  • We, the People of this country, have NO unalienable rights,

  • That all our rights are SUBJECT TO MODIFICATION,

  • That the Constitution of the United States of America is nothing more than a piece of paper and

  • That our government SHOULD NOT BE RESTRAINED by the Constitution because our government can do good things for people.

In effect, Mr. Dershowitz is saying that the system of governance in America has been transformed from a constitutional-republic to a democracy—that the government can do whatever it wants to do for, or TO, the people – that we are now governed by the rule of men and their whim, rather than by a Constitution.

It is Mr. Dershowitz’s opinion--an opinion shared by the leaders of our major political parties, our courts, and most of our nation’s print and broadcast media--that those PERSONAL RIGHTS ENUMERATED IN THE FIRST TEN AMENDMENTS TO OUR CONSTITUTION (OUR BILL OF RIGHTS), NO LONGER EXIST EXCEPT AT THE WHIM AND DISCRETION OF GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS AND CAREER POLITICIANS--THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY AND PROPERTY EXCEPT BY GOVERNMENT PERMISSION.

MR. DERSHOWITZ CONTENDS THAT ALL INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS DERIVE FROM GOVERNMENT--THAT AS AMERICANS WE HAVE NO RIGHTFUL CLAIM TO OUR OWN LIVES AND TO OUR OWN PROPERTY. EVERYTHING THAT WE EARN FROM OUR LABOR—EVERYTHING THAT WE OWN THROUGH OUR HARD WORK AND PERSONAL SACRIFICE, WE OWE TO GOVERNMENT. CAN THIS BE TRUE? ARE WE NO LONGER ONE NATION UNDER GOD, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. DO WE SERVE OUR GOVERNMENT--OR DOES OUR GOVERNMENT SERVE US. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

Mr. Dershowitz made this assertion that our Constitution is merely a piece of paper---that we Americans have no God-given, unalienable rights---during a televised debate with Alan Keyes at Franklin and Marshall College, in September 2000.

This is a video tape of the debate as broadcast by C-Span.

Before the New York Times agreed to run our ad on February 10th, their lawyers wanted proof that Mr. Dershowitz actually said those things about our rights and the constitution.

I had to agree to play the video tape, while holding a telephone near the television, so the Times’ lawyer could hear Mr. Dersowitz speaking those words. The times evidently expected a significant public reaction to our ad—and specifically to Mr. Dershowitz’s statements.

I too, expected a significant reaction to Mr. Dershowitz’s comments, and to our message in the February 10th NY Times ad.

I expected outrage from those individuals and institutions well known for their eloquent rhetoric in defense of our Constitution and our unalienable rights as Americans citizens. Such organizations as the Cato Institute, The Heritage Foundation, The Future of Freedom Foundation, The Libertarian Party, the Reform Party, the Constitution Party—even Jesse Ventura.

I expected a resounding denunciation of Mr. Dershowitz’s statements by the so-called champions of liberty in our government--people like Ron Paul, Bob Barr, and congressional members of the Liberty Caucus. I expected to hear loud protests from the few patriotic members of our print and broadcast media like the Washington Times.

I was certain that religious leaders across the country would passionately object to Mr. Dershowitz’s claim that Americans have no unalienable or constitutionally guaranteed right to religious expression without government approval. I expected patriotic attorneys and business people from every corner of our great nation to stand in protest of Mr. Dershowitz’s contention that our constitution is merely a piece of paper.

I hoped, and believed that after reading the NY Times ad, American men and women from every walk of life would loudly reject Mr. Dershowitz’a claim that government should be given absolute control and supreme authority over our lives.

But I was wrong. We heard from no one.

No voice was raised in public in defense of our unalienable rights or the original meaning of our Constitution.

We heard nothing from our elected officials, from mainstream journalists, from prominent constitutional lawyers, from religious or academic leaders, or from Washington think tanks.

So what are we, the People, to make of this?

Has the Constitution really become a dead letter?

Has our sacred Bill of Rights been destroyed by an arrogant, out-of-control and unaccountable government that has no respect for the precious liberties of every American citizen. Do we the People no longer have the right, or the power, to establish boundaries around the authority of our federal government?

We The People had better take notice.

When government takes one step outside the boundaries drawn around its power, it takes possession of a boundless field of authority, no longer capable of definition.

There is a word for rulers unrestrained by law or constitutions --for usurpers of the people’s sovereignty.

That word is “Tyrant.”

There is a word for a system of government in which the rulers have unlimited power.

That word is “Despotism.”

Government is the enemy of freedom. Unrestrained government is not the benefactor of the people. As Amercians, we democratically elect our political representatives. But America is not a Democracy. Democracy is mob-rule.

In a Democracy, 51% of the voting population can deny 49% of their fellow citizens their unalienable rights to life, liberty and property. I ask you to think about it. Is that what our founders intended for us when they wrote the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights over 200 years ago?

In a Constitutional Republic, such as we have in America, EVERY one of our citizens---regardless of his or her race, religion, political influence, social status, or economic station in life---has unalienable, constitutionally protected rights that cannot be lawfully abridged by a power hungry government. And it is those Americans who are most vulnerable to the abuses of democratic mob-rule and government tyranny who are most protected by our Constitutional Republican form of government.

We would do well to remember those occasions in modern history when democratically elected governments have violated their citizen’s most basic rights to life, liberty and property because a MAJORITY of the population found it acceptable. In America, there are only two things that stand between the people and government tyranny---those are our Constitution and our will as a free people to protect and defend it.

IN AMERICA, THE RIGHT TO PETITION OUR GOVERNMENT FOR REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES IS THE BASIS OF OUR LIBERTY. OUR FOUNDERS EXPLICITLY RECOGNIZED THIS RIGHT IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO OUR CONSTITUTION—FOR THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT WITHOUT IT, WE COULD NOT HAVE A SERVANT GOVERNMENT WHOSE POWER IS DEFINED AND LIMITED BY THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE.

In America, the right to petition our government for a redress of grievances is an unalienable right—it derives from our faith in a supreme being—an ultimate moral authority from whom we gain our understanding of equality, justice and the rule of law. Implicit in our first amendment constitutional right to petition our government for a redress of grievances, is the government’s absolute moral and legal obligation to respond honestly and completely to the people’s petition.

This is the essential cornerstone of Popular Sovereignty – A government of the People, by the People, FOR the People.

One of the earliest recorded guarantees of the people’s right to petition the King for redress of grievances is found in chapter 61 of the Magna Carta, written of 1215. Over time, Parliament came to claim the right to dictate the form of the King’s reply.

By 1669, Parliament resolved that every commoner in England possessed “the inherent right to prepare and present petitions” to it “in case of grievance,” and that Parliament had “to receive the same” and to judge whether they were “fit” to be received.

In 1689, Chapter 5 of the English Bill of Rights asserted the right of the subjects to petition the King and “all prosecutions for such petitioning to be illegal.” In other words, human liberty had evolved to the point where the government’s customary practice of using a person’s Petition for Redress as grounds for more persecution and abuse was firmly challenged on moral and legal grounds—it was no longer generally accepted that a persons rights and freedoms came from the king---but ultimately derived from a much higher authority

It came to pass that a free people understood that, in practical effect, they had no rights—they were not really free--unless their right to Petition the government and government’s obligation to respond was guaranteed in writing.

In 1776, as the concept of guaranteeing liberty through written constitutions evolved, the right to petition became the primary right of the People populating the states. That guarantee was expressed up front in the Constitutions of the Republics of New York State, Virginia, and the other State Republics as they came along.

In 1791, the right to petition became the primary right of the People of the United States of America, expressed in the First Amendment to the federal Constitution.

Some would now have us believe that our First Amendment right of petition is nothing more than a guarantee of free speech. That this vital constitutional protection—the very basis of our liberty---is simply a right to voice our grievances to the government. Some would try to convince us that We The People do not have the absolute right to an honest and complete response to our petition---or the authority to demand that our government correct the abuses and violations of our liberties that resulted in our petition.

What nonsense! This is dangerous talk to a free people. We must not listen to those who would denigrate our constitution, and undermine the principles of liberty and justice that gave birth to our nation.

At best they are imbeciles, and at worst they are tyrants -- or “sharing bedrooms” with tyrants.

We must steel ourselves to this nonsense. We must harden our hearts to these false notions that government is God. Government has but one legitimate purpose---to serve and protect all of the people equally. Government is not God. It is our servant. It is accountable to We The People.

The RIGHT to Petition for Redress of Grievances is the final protection – the final, check and balance in our system of Constitutional government in which the government derives its limited powers from the consent of the sovereign people.

This is the right which publicly reveals and reiterates for all, who is Master and who is Servant

If our RIGHT to Petition has truly become void of substance, we can ask no more than to see the truth.

THIS HEARING IS ABOUT TRUTH. THIS HEARING IS ABOUT FACTS. WE ARE HERE TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE TRUTHS THAT WE HOLD TO BE SELF-EVIDENT. THIS HEARING IS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR NATION----ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

This hearing is about the “LAW” and it is about what we have allowed our “GOVERNMENT” to become.

But even more importantly, this hearing is about US---“WE THE PEOPLE”. Who we are and Who we want to be. What kind of country do we want to leave to our children and future generations of Americans.

Over the next two days, you will hear the facts. You will see the law. You will be able to judge the truth.

You will see how our government has crafted and perpetuated the largest illusion and fraud ever witnessed on planet Earth. You will learn the truth about a powerful central government that hates and fears personal freedom and individual responsibility, and sees popular sovereignty as a threat to its complete authority and control over our lives. We will prove conclusively that the United States federal government---like a thief in the night---has subtly, over many years, stripped the American people of our liberty, our property, and in many cases, our very lives in order to protect and perpetuate a fraudulent, debt-based money system---and the life-blood of that system---the horribly unjust and unconstitutional personal income tax.

As you observe these truths being unveiled, consider how WE as a PEOPLE have let this happen.

Consider the role that each of us as citizens has played as unwitting participants and silent conspirators as our leaders have slowly, and unlawfully seized the rights of the People.

Soon the truth will be known to all.

The day quickly approaches when we will be forced to act on these truths. If we fail to act, we will lose forever this chapter in human history when We The People reigned sovereign, and our government was bound by the chains of a written constitution.

INCOME TAX: THE MOST PERNICIOUS FORM OF TYRANNY

The most pernicious form of tyranny is that which disguises itself as a benefactor to its victims.

Most people believe that the income tax system is legal and that the revenue from the tax is used in the public interest.

However, there is a substantial, conclusive body of evidence that proves that our income tax system represents the most pernicious form of tyranny:

It is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated by government against the working men and women of America.

It is unconstitutional in its origin, and abusive in every aspect of its operation.

It uses intimidation, threat and coercion to deprive us of our lawfully acquired property.

It resorts to morally reprehensible conduct in a persistent effort to divide the American people and promote envy, greed and irresponsible behavior in our society.

The unlawful and unjust income tax system produces nothing but sorrow, distress and calamity and division in our society.

It has been imposed on an unsuspecting people through deceptive and fraudulent means –outside of constitutional restraints;

Our income tax holds people in servitude as the chattel of others. It forces the people to labor to pay off a never ending and always growing national debt to a cartel of private banks.

The income tax is enforced as though payment was compulsory when, in fact, it is voluntary.

For decades, a growing number of attorneys, CPAs, retired judges, former and present IRS officers, educators, experienced researchers, former and present congressmen, legislators, successful businesspeople and scores of ordinary, nonaligned citizens have been providing a substantial amount of extremely credible evidence that since 1913 the Judiciary has been cooperating with the Executive and Legislative branches in a collective attempt to deny the People their constitutionally protected rights and to deprive the People of a significant percentage of the fruits of their labor by unlawfully enforcing the IRS Code -- a code that has no basis in law -- no legal authority.

The evidence supports the now WIDELY HELD belief that:

It was no coincidence that the Federal Reserve System----a PRIVATELY OWNED banking cartel that is not controlled, or even audited by our government----and the income tax were both imposed on the American people in 1913.

The Federal Reserve System and the Internal Revenue Service were both created by the 16th Amendment to the United States Constitution. We will prove at this hearing that the 16th Amendment is a fraud. That it was not lawfully ratified by ¾ of the States in 1913. And that as creations of the 16th Amendment, the Federal Reserve System and the IRS are not legitimate, constitutional operations of our government.

The Federal Reserve System and the income tax are inextricably linked. The income tax was instituted to provide lender security and guaranteed profits to this highly secretive, privately owned and unaccountable central banking system that has obtained absolute control over our country and the federal government.

You will learn at this hearing that most of the revenue generated from the income tax is not used to run the government but is collected by the private Federal Reserve System as interest on the national debt---money that this corrupt money system creates out of thin air, and then loans to the federal government—in a fraudulent scheme that has kept the American people is a state of perpetual debt to these private bankers for three quarters of a century.

Since 1933, the privately owned Federal Reserve system has been granted the unconstitutional power to fabricate money out of thin air, charge interest to the government for the use of the Fed’s fabricated money and to receive taxes to pay that interest, paid with the American people’s labor. Today, the average American family pays more in taxes than it does for housing, food and clothing combined.

Is there any question that indentured servitude is alive and well in America?

By the end of this hearing you will KNOW that American citizens are compelled by the government to perform labor in order to pay off the government’s debt to the PRIVATE banking cartel---and that most Americans are in a condition of continual, economic slavery to the federal government and the privately owned Federal Reserve System (in violation of our rights guaranteed by the 13th Amendment).

The evidence will also show that our system of income tax collection has led to widespread and unjustifiable abuse of the People’s unalienable due process rights. Among the significant wrongs committed by our government to perpetuate this fraud include:

The unlawful indictment, prosecution and imprisonment of law-abiding Citizens who dare question the government’s legal authority to collect this tax.

The unlawful seizures of property, wages, bank accounts --- all without court orders or proper warrants to satisfy supposed tax debts that, in fact, have no basis in law

The pervasive and systemic denial of due process rights and other constitutional protections in the daily administrative operations of the IRS

The collusion of the Courts in perpetuating the unlawful tax system by their failure to directly rule on proper legal challenges to our laws and the tacit approval of legal abuse by DOJ and the IRS against the People

A system of tax regulations and legal definitions so complex and ambiguous that it conveniently defies comprehension and successful legal challenges.

PETITION FOR REDRESS REGARDING THE INCOME TAX

People like Joseph R. Banister, William Benson, William Conklin, Irwin Schiff, Nick Jesson, Joe Farah, Larry Becraft, Jeff Dickstein and scores of other credentialed professionals have for years, been researching the issues and petitioning the government for a Redress of Grievances regarding the apparently fraudulent jurisdiction of the Internal Revenue Service and the illegal operations of the nation’s income tax system.

In response, the government has been using those petitions as grounds for abuse, sanctions, persecution, prosecution and incarceration.

IRS special agent Joe Banister completed his 95-page research report in February of 1999, and submitted it to his superiors in the San Jose office of the IRS with a respectful request that it be passed up the chain of command to the IRS Commissioner. Joe was merely asking for a response to his conclusions that there is no statute compelling citizens to file and pay income or social security taxes and that the 16th Amendment was not legally ratified.

Instead of responding to the evidence and conclusions, Mr. Banister's superiors forced Joe to resign.

Attorneys Becraft and Dickstein have been sanctioned by the courts for raising questions about the validity of the income tax system

Researchers Benson, Schiff and others have been incarcerated because they asked the government to show them the law that gives the government the constitutional and statutory authority to impose an income tax on the people.

Scores of well-intentioned citizens have researched the issues and attempted to raise their questions about the legal authority of the IRS. They have acted professionally and respectfully. Nonetheless, they too have been persecuted for not worshiping and paying homage to the nation’s new ruler – its federal monetary system.

A growing number of people have become familiar with the facts contained in these research reports and now believe that the IRS has no legal authority to force employers to withhold the tax from the paychecks of their employees and no legal authority to force most citizens to file an income tax return or to pay an income tax.

Yet, a growing number of people are losing their homes, going to prison and otherwise being subjected to financial penalties and emotional stress for either falling behind on their payments or legitimately deciding that they do not have to pay.

The Executive, Legislative and the Judicial branches of our government continue to enforce the income tax law which they KNOW, without doubt, is unconstitutional and totally repugnant to our founding principles.

Obviously, the current situation cannot be allowed to continue. The People need to get to the truth of the matter.

In 1999, the We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education became aware of the issues being raised about the income tax system, and the government’s reprehensible behavior.

We sponsored a symposium at the National Press Club here in Washington on July 1st and 2nd, 1999. We selected the National Press Club for three reasons:

The symposium would be closer to the headquarters of the IRS and other offices of the Executive, to the Congress and to the Supreme Court, thereby facilitating and maximizing the potential of their participation in the symposium.

Washington is the media capital of the world and this issue needed media attention. The implications of the conclusions of the research by Messrs. Banister, Benson and Conklin, et al., are profound and of enormous national and international interest.

Dozens of national policy research "think tanks" are located in the greater Washington area -- organizations that have a need to know about the potential of a near-term demise of the federal income and social security taxes. The facts, conclusions and methodology of the research by Messrs. Banister, Benson, Conklin, and others, would be of intense interest to them.

The symposium would be closer to the House of Representatives and the Senate, thereby making it possible for members of Congress to hear the "accusers" and the administration’s response to the allegations, and to offer their comments, particularly with respect to alternatives.

We respectfully requested the duly elected heads of the Executive and Legislative branches to identify the people with the best legal minds to argue against the conclusions of the tax researchers and have those people participate in the symposium.

More specifically, we requested that their representatives provide certain definite evidence on the above points, including: (1) documentation that the 16th Amendment was properly and legally ratified; (2) a copy of any law that compels citizens to file and pay federal income and social security taxes; and (3) an official, clear, and unambiguous explanation as to how one can file a federal income tax return without waiving one’s 5th Amendment rights.

The government did not acknowledge receipt of the invitations. However, the symposium was covered by C-SPAN.

Joseph R. Banister, William Benson, William Conklin and Larry Becraft presented the results of their research in support of three key conclusions they had reached:
 

1. The 16th Amendment has, in fact, not been approved by ¾ of the State Legislatures,

2. There is no federal statute that requires individual citizens of the 50 states to file and pay a federal income tax or a federal social security tax.

3. That by filing a federal income tax form 1040, American citizens waive their 5th Amendment rights.
 

We are now in a Constitutional Crisis.

TODAY’S TRUTH-IN-TAXATION HEARING

The hearing today is but another step in the People’s determination to get to the truth regarding the fraudulent jurisdiction of the Federal Reserve System and the Internal Revenue Service and the illegal operations of the nation’s income tax system.

Our purpose today is to have expert witnesses answer, under oath, various questions about the legal authority of the IRS to force employers to withhold any income tax from the paychecks of their employees and the legal authority of the IRS to force most American citizens to file a tax return and to pay the income tax.

Our objective is to establish a factual record, to be used by the People as justification for their future actions to eliminate this unlawful system of taxation in our country.

We had hoped to have hostile witness from the DOJ and the IRS. However, they ARROGANTLY REFUSED to appear before We The People to answer the questions.

So, instead we will have our witnesses answer the questions the government witnesses chose not to answer.

The witnesses are credible, educated experts who have first hand knowledge of the abuses the American people are suffering at the hand of our government. Our expert witnesses are attorneys, CPAs, professional tax researchers and ex-IRS agents.

The questions have all been prepared as statements of fact, to be admitted or denied, with evidence.

The main agenda for the inquiry is as follows:
(agenda overview)

We also would appreciate your continued attention to remaining respectful of the proceedings and to the schedule.

IN CLOSING,

The American People deserve – have a RIGHT – to a government that operates within the bounds of the law as defined by our Constitution.

The American People deserve – have a RIGHT – to a tax system that does not violate the Peoples’ unalienable rights to life, liberty and property.

The American People deserve – have a RIGHT – to a tax system that is Constitutional.

The American People deserve – have a RIGHT – to be ANSWERED by our government:

Show us the law.

Show us your authority.

Show us where we are liable for this tax.

Answer our questions.

The government has been invited repeatedly to confront this research.
At each turn, they have run from the truth.

Today, the evidence is brought before the People for their judgment.

We hope you enjoy learning the REAL details of our tax laws and how the “system” REALLY works behind the “curtain”.

We hope you consider the broad implications for our Nation as each line of inquiry fully unfolds.

We trust you will find the evidence startling, compelling, disturbing and irrefutable.

We further hope you consider what these truths mean to each of you as peaceful and law-abiding Citizens.

We hope you spread news of this crisis across our Nation, share this evidence with your friends and countrymen and join us in our demand to restore the order of Constitutional law to our nation.

At the end of our second day of testimony, I will outline additional steps that this Foundation will now undertake to secure our freedoms and our Republic once again.

We pray you search your hearts and your souls to find the strength, courage and commitment to learn the facts, judge the truth and join us in this righteous and necessary cause.

Thank you.

Bob Schulz, Chairman
We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education, Inc.
Note: These comments were presented at the Opening of the Citizens' Truth-In-Taxation Hearing.
Washington D.C., February 27-28, 2002



TOPICS: Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: taxreform
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 121-122 next last

1 posted on 03/04/2002 2:19:12 PM PST by Dementon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Dementon
The NRST flying monkeys are going to plaster this thread with more devious lies than even Dershowitz can dream up.
2 posted on 03/04/2002 2:25:15 PM PST by Willie Green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
Tell them to bring it on :)
3 posted on 03/04/2002 2:50:07 PM PST by Dementon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Taxreform
Bump
4 posted on 03/04/2002 2:51:16 PM PST by Dementon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dementon
Here are the closing remarks from the hearing.
5 posted on 03/04/2002 3:02:11 PM PST by Dementon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dementon
I'll bump to that!
6 posted on 03/04/2002 3:26:01 PM PST by lds23
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: Dementon
The Tea Party is coming to America!Dude!we got a Tea Party!And it's for REAL!And it ain't a freekin DELL!
8 posted on 03/04/2002 6:02:05 PM PST by taxtruth
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dementon

We would do well to remember those occasions in modern history when democratically elected governments have violated their citizen’s most basic rights to life, liberty and property because a MAJORITY of the population found it acceptable. In America, there are only two things that stand between the people and government tyranny---those are our Constitution and our will as a free people to protect and defend it.

All ringing with fervor but lacking in one little detail, precisely what do these folks really intend to do about it. For the reality is, most people do not pay income taxes and in many cases actually receive what appears to be a handouts, via the personal exemption, allowed deductions and EITC of the individual income tax. To make changes, you had better factor in reaching those folks.

Right now the bottom 60% tax filers perceive little to no "Individual Income Tax" burden,(in many cases even a handout) and 70% of voters continue to clamor for more from government looking for the top 40% to pay. That perception continues to grow ever stronger by eliminating even more participants from the Individual Income Tax rolls as proposed in the current tax reduction proposals currently on board through changes in personal exemption limits and other mechanisms such as the EITC.

Remember:

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Alan Keyes refers to the income tax as the slave tax that should be abolished as a moral imperative, and replaced with a National Sales Tax:

Keyes on Taxes & Government Spending:

Alan Keyes Interview with Des Moines Register:

The intent of the structure of the individual income tax is for political and social control not revenue collection. The Individual Income tax is maintained to establish and hold every person in the country perpetual legal jeopardy.

Considering those factors, it is always good to remember the philosophical roots of the left which can be found here: Manifesto of the Communist Party, by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, published in 1848. Among their recommendations are these:

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state ... . Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property ... . These measures will, of course, be different in different countries. Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in he hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

That is a situation that must end with the repeal of the income tax from the statutes, and the prohibition of its use by Constitutional amendment that future generations will not face the same manner of manipulation and interference in their lives.

But that will not come about by mere words, or saying no more taxes. The alternative to no more taxes is merely government cranks up the printing presses, or increase the tax burden out of sight through the corporate VATs that are in place. Neither is an answer to the problem of Too Much Government, and Too many voters perceiving freebees.

The Crisis of Democracy

The Honorable James DeMint (R-SC)
United States House of Representatives

THURSDAY, APRIL 5, 2001
12:00 noon

"In 1996, Congress passed a historic welfare reform law that has dramatically reduced the number of Americans who depend on welfare. In spite of this positive development, Representative DeMint is concerned about the steady growth of a welfare/entitlement state that extends well beyond the poor and is forcing millions of middle income Americans into dependency.

There has been a shift in the relationship between individuals and government, he argues, such that fewer and fewer are paying taxes at the same time that more and more are receiving increasingly generous benefits. If it becomes the case that most voters do not bear a financial burden for this largess, then there will be little to restrain--and significant political incentives to encourage--the continued growth of government. And at that point, DeMint warns, we have reached a major crisis in our democracy."

To remove taxation of the individual, is to remove the goad which assures accountability of government to the electorate. Federal taxes are high because a majority of the electorate do not share proportionately in the burden their demand for largesse imposes on the minority of citizens.

The call for representation without taxation is the formula that got us where we are at today. The ability to hide or disguise taxation from the view of large sectors of the electorate allows the Congress to get away with the creation of the evergrowing monster that it fosters.

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Liberty and freedom have a price, responsibility. If that price is avoided there are no brakes on the growth of government, the ultimate result is the end of freedom through creeping socialism.

9 posted on 03/04/2002 6:32:53 PM PST by ancient_geezer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green
Sounds like you're finally admitting to be one of the Tax Protester crowd. That explains a lot of your nonsense so frequently repeated.

I don't mind you being misled by the TP crowd W/G since you richly deserve it judging from the "positions" you've taken, but I really hope that not too many lucid people are likewise duped. Have you donated money to their cause as they have been repeatedly been soliciting?? Hunger strikers gotta' eat, too, ya know.

Little Willie was "The Worst President In American History".

10 posted on 03/04/2002 7:19:43 PM PST by pigdog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: ancient_geezer
the ultimate result is the end of freedom through creeping socialism.

As this boards resident scholar, would you argue that the EITC is a constitutional use of the taxing power? It can hardly be called a tax to promote the general welfare. It seems more like a tax to promote the specific welfare.

11 posted on 03/04/2002 8:31:43 PM PST by allrightythen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: allrightythen
Generally the EITC is rationalised as the return of Payroll (i.e. SS/Medicare) tax dollars.

Can Congress return tax dollars to selected portions of the taxpayers under the constitution? You tell me? How does one gain standing, as an individual, in the Courts to overturn what in the minds of Congress amounts to the return of an "overpayment".

In my own opinion, the EITC is improper because it does not treat all taxpayers equally. It favors one segment of the population over another. But the same can be said of every credit, special deduction or exemption in the tax code, including the laying of import duties and sin taxes or specific excises on any product of commerce and not others.

The Constitution states:

 

Constitution for the United States of America:

The founding fathers established the rule of "uniformity" to prevent states from being treated differently under the tax law. That was done to prohibit the use of indirect taxes as defacto Tarriffs benefitting or acting to the detriment of commerce in one state or group of states in regard to the rest.

The rule of uniformity imply only that a common rule will be applied regardless of where the tax is levied.

The Courts make it clear as to where the resolution of such problems lay:

 

McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819)

Champion v. Ames(1903), 186 U.S. 321

Springer v. United States(1880), 102 U.S. 586

  • "The central and controlling question in this case is whether the tax which was levied on the income, gains, and profits of the plaintiff in error, as set forth in the record, and by pretended virtue of the acts of Congress and parts of acts therein mentioned, is a direct tax."
  • "Our conclusions are, that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes, as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate; and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complains is within the category of an excise or duty."
  • "If the laws here in question involved any wrong or unnecessary harshness, it was for Congress, or the people who make congresses, to see that the evil was corrected.
    The remedy does not lie with the judicial branch of the government."
  • The limits of taxation?:

    MCCRAY v. U S, 195 U.S. 27 (1904)


    12 posted on 03/04/2002 9:08:20 PM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

    To: ancient_geezer
    Can Congress return tax dollars to selected portions of the taxpayers under the constitution?

    No. Congress can lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, only for the common defense or general welfare according to the constitution. The EITC should be found unconstitutional on its face. The taxing power was intended to be (thus) limited.

    Not any more it seems. Now with great swelling of words, the 'courts' declare that public policy trancends rights to property. Anyone claiming his property becomes a kind of enemy of the State. I regret to say Dershowitz is right. The Constitution is dead letter. Public policy has so colored the actions of government, that it rules now. Wouldnt you agree?

    13 posted on 03/04/2002 10:36:42 PM PST by allrightythen
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

    To: allrightythen
    AG is on the government dole as is pig. AG once claimed Clinton was paying him (I have the proof)...now I suppose he thinks Bush is paying him...simply put, in spite of all his spam he doesn't really know/care where his money comes from or if it's constitutional as long as you keep sending it....You don't think anyone on the government dole would admit the money they receive every month is un-constitutional do you?
    14 posted on 03/04/2002 10:52:58 PM PST by lewislynn
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

    To: lewislynn
    Are you ex military on medical disability lewis? I'll let you earn that "dole" the same way I did any day.
    15 posted on 03/05/2002 6:10:34 AM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

    To: allrightythen

    No. Congress can lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, only for the common defense or general welfare according to the constitution. The EITC should be found unconstitutional on its face.

    So should all specialised exemptions and deductions in the IRC and tax only on gross on a basis of receipts. If you accomplished that, the Individual Income tax would become a true Flat Tax, with a rate of 13%, the SS/Mediscare income tax would drop to 8% paid on all wages not just the first $80k.

    Fine, now file your law suit if you can find standing and grounds and get it done. I haven't figured out away to accomplish that myself.

    MCCRAY v. U S, 195 U.S. 27 (1904)

    If you can get over the bar, you'll do us all a favor.

    Personally I would like to get rid of the IRS, legal jeopardy and political control of the income/payroll tax system myself and banish it all replacing it with a flat single rate tax at point of retail sale. That way we could scrap the IRS intrusion into our personal finances as well.

    16 posted on 03/05/2002 6:26:19 AM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

    To: allrightythen

    Public policy has so colored the actions of government, that it rules now. Wouldnt you agree?

    Public policy is legislative intent and always has been, or didn't you realize that? You want a different policy, you had better figure out a way of replacing the numbskulls in Congress.

    U S v. FISHER, 6 U.S. 358 (1805)

    FLETCHER v. PECK, 10 U.S. 87 (1810)

    "The question, whether a law be void for its repugnancy to the constitution, is, at all times, a question of much delicacy, which ought seldom, if ever, to be decided in the affirmative, in a doubtful case. The court, when impelled by duty to render such a judgment, would be unworthy of its station, could it be unmindful of the solemn obligations which that station imposes. But it is not on slight implication and vague conjecture that the legislature is to be pronounced to have transcended its powers, and its acts to be considered as void. The opposition between the constitution and the law should be such that the judge feels a clear and strong conviction of their incompatibility with each other."

    FindLaw: U S v. GOLDENBERG, 168 U.S. 95,103 (1897)

    "The primary and general rule of statutory construction is that the intent of the lawmaker is to be found in the language that he has used. He is presumed to know the meaning of words and the rules of grammar. The courts have no function of legislation, and simply seek to ascertain the will of the legislator.

    FindLaw: RODGERS v. U S, 185 U.S. 83 (1902)
    "The primary rule of statutory construction is, of course, to give effect to the intention of the legislature."


    17 posted on 03/05/2002 7:43:43 AM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

    To: ancient_geezer
    If you can get over the bar, you'll do us all a favor.

    There is certain inevitability in bringing any tax matter. 100-percent of the time, the judicial mind finds in favor of the government. A remarkable record dont you agree? Either 100 percent of petitioners have meritless claims or 100 percent of outcomes are pre-ordained.

    The courts say to take the tax problem down the hall to the legislative branch. You can vote em out if you dont like it. Well--in spite of taxes being the subject of every election since 1900, the Tax Foundation finds taxes have risen steadly. In 1900 5 percent of property was expropriated by government. Now its 30+ percent and rising.

    The NRST you advocate is revenue neutral, so we can expect no relief there. In fact, Laurence Kotlikoff predicts that the NRST will increase government revenues because it so effectively taps retirement accounts.

    The war between the states (Civil War) was fought over property rights, not slavery. Ten states objected to tariffs imposed by the Union. Finding no relief in the courts or from Congress, the 10 states said thanks but no thanks. Tax protesters all of them. We all know how that tax protest turned out. So if I object to the taking of 30 percent of my property--I must put up a better fight than 10 states did. Alternatively I can do what Lewislynn accuses you of doing. That is join em. Exploit the Leviathan if you cant defeat it, right?

    18 posted on 03/05/2002 8:13:53 AM PST by allrightythen
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

    To: allrightythen

    Either 100 percent of petitioners have meritless claims

    Bingo! Guess what, if someone keeps bringing back previously failed claims to the court they loose. Amazing how that works isn't it?

    That by the way is the definition of a frivolous claim. Already ruled upon and lost many times.

    Here's the Department of Justice's written position on 16th amendment and other common tax protest positions:

    DOJ CRIMINAL JUSTICE MANUAL, Section 40 TAX PROTESTORS

    And a comprehensive FAQ compiled by a lawyer of all the Tax Protest arguments that have failed repeatedly and why:

    THE TAX PROTESTER FAQ

    And there are of course the many Court cases from the Article III Courts, (i.e. federal district, appellate, & Supreme Court) that support all the above, a blow by blow of the judgements of more current cases:

    Quatloo's Tax Protestor Gallery

    The ultimate place to go for the answers, is Congress. They, afterall are the ones ultimately responsible for the condition of the Statutes, Regulations and Executive Orders. It is Congress in the end the enacts the enabling legislation and accepts or rejects the content of all Regulations and E.O.s.

    The Courts have made it abundantly clear that the arguments presented in the above texts are failed and decided, and provide no relief to the defendant. Infact they have also made it very clear as to where to turn for relief from the very beginning as regards the income tax law.

    19 posted on 03/05/2002 8:48:39 AM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

    To: allrightythen
    In fact, Laurence Kotlikoff predicts that the NRST will increase government revenues because it so effectively taps retirement accounts.

    Kotlikoff also predicts:

     

    The Economic and Civil Liberties Case for a National Sales Tax, May 11 '95
    Stephen Moore
    Director
    Fiscal Policy Studies
    Cato Institute

    Economic Impact of a National Sales Tax

    In 1993 the Cato Institute commissioned a study by economist Lawrence Kotlikoff of Boston University to examine the economic impact of replacing federal income taxes with a national sales tax.(20) The sales would apply to all consumption purchases-- including services. Only real estate and securities would be exempted. The purpose of the Kotlikoff study was to determine a) What would be the impact of the sales tax on economic variables such as savings, wages, and output? and b) What is the necessary sales tax rate to completely replace on a revenue neutral basis the federal personal income, corporate income, and estate tax?

    Kotlikoff discovered that to completely replace federal income taxes would require an

    The reason the rate can be lowered is that the study finds a very positive economic feedback from the tax change. Specifically, the Kotlikoff study finds that after ten years, a national sales tax would:

    1) More than double the national savings rate.
    2) Increase the capital stock by 8 percent above the level attained under the current tax system.
    3) Raise income and output by 6 percent more than would be achieved under the current tax system. That would increase national output by almost $400 billion per year.
    4) Lift the real wage rate by 3 percent.
    5) Reduce interest rates by 8 percent.

    Kotlikoff concludes the study by issuing the following endorsement for a sales tax: "A shift to a national sales tax has the potential for dramatically improving incentives to save. The distortion to save is so great under our current system of income taxation, that it appears we could switch to consumption taxation...and end up with much higher rates of saving and capital accumulation and a higher level of per capita income."

    That's not counting the fact that a National Retail Sales Tax would remove the IRS as a factor in the daily lives of all americans. It would assure the proportional participation of all voters in the tax burden so Congress Critters would have a much more difficult time in playing rich vs. poor games by hiding taxes behind inflation as it does today.

    When politicians loose there primary lever, hiding taxes from view of most of the electorate, do you think folk are going to push, for more taxes? If so why are you bitching now?

    20 posted on 03/05/2002 8:58:16 AM PST by ancient_geezer
    [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


    Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
    first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 121-122 next last

    Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

    Free Republic
    Browse · Search
    News/Activism
    Topics · Post Article

    FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
    FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson