Ergun Caner: Islam is not a Peaceful Religion {Former Muslim}

CBNnews.com ^ | March 7 2002 | Ergun Caner

[Demidog]

So is it really your position that we must go to every Muslim and take a personal survey before your personal fears are allayed?

And in the absence of this you will simply assume, based on the hysterical rantings of racists, that all Muslims are bad and must prove themselves otherwise before you will believe it?

LOL.

[OWK]

One Who Blows

Top notch.

I'm sure that's just what Jesus would want of you.

[OWK]

then perhaps you should just stop coming here...

I was here when you got here (long before in fact)...

And I'll likely be here when you go.

[helmsman]

Inquisition, shminquisition. Do you have any idea how many actually died under this ostensible example of Christians run amok? Investigate, and then get back with me about the actual numbers over a long period of time.

The Inquisition was designed as a terror campaign that would intimidate and frighten those who would challenge the dictates of the Church on matters ranging from theology to matters of the physical universe. There were a few notable targets of the campaign, including Galileo who was threatened with agonizing torture for his scientific observations. The fact that there were no piles of bodies produced by the Inquisition only serves to prove that it was indeed a terror campaign meant to make "examples" of "heretics" -- one that was an official policy of the Church! One who is sufficiently hostile to Christianity could credibly, therefore, make the case that the Christian Church was essentially a terrorist organization for centuries, enforcing it's will by either force or fear. I will not go so far, however.

And let's not forget the many persecutions of fellow Christians who differed from the official theology of the Church. One of the most revolting examples of this barbarism was the Albigensian crusade against the Cathars of France in 1209. Simply because of their differing theological views, Pope Innocent III waged a crusade to convert them or eliminate them. Mass slaughters occured of women and children by Christian knights. One such slaughter at Béziers, resulted in the mass murder of not only Cathars, but plenty of Catholic sympathizers as well. The number of deaths were in the tens of thousands -- in the hundreds of thousands for the entire crusade. And while it is true that the great holocausts of the 20th century count deaths in the millions, it is also true that the population of the Earth exploded in the 20th century. The atrocities have to be compared on a relative basis, also taking into account advances in weapons technology that allowed for more efficient mass killing, as was pointed out by OWK.

And, by the way, I in no way implied that secular states and causes have not perpetrated carnage on vast scales. I am only insisting that those who condemn one religion for it's barbarisms should not forget those of their own religion.

[smith288]

So what is your point then? Im moved to think its just jollies you get coming here. So you think sign up date on my profule is the date i have been coming here? Think real hard and see why that is flawed.

[OWK]

Im moved to think its just jollies you get coming here.

Why do you come here?

[smith288]

Umm...I still fail to see where the Bible recommends the church to perform these acts....P> Waiting........

[Antoninus]

But in the midst of this turmoil, Ergun says this is the most incredible opportunity to witness to Muslims. They are beginning to understand their religion. Many do not want to be part of the violence and are coming to Christ. The difference between reaching them and not reaching them depends on the teaching of grace.

Not a bad idea. May God bless and protect this man.

[Mojo-jo-jo]

From somebody who has consistently taken an anti-Christian stance based on previous posts I've read from you...perhaps you should consider not using this forum as your platform of spewing hate for Christianity and deal with the real spiritual issues of yourself privately; thus not provoking others to come down to your level. Spiritual matters are issues mainly of the heart, intellect and reason are part of it, but they are not the means to an end when talking about ones faith.

[Antoninus]

The "faithful" Muslim could just as easily say the same thing about the Muslim terrorists.

They could, but they don't. And that's the difference. Instead of condemning the bombers, assassins, terrorists, and jihad-spouting holy men, the vast majority of Muslims consider them heroes...

[smith288]

I come here to discuss political and world events with my fellow conservatives and to get the latest on whats going on in the world.

[mv1]

Have you ever noticed how so many "ex" anythings spend their time hating their former religion, so many ex-Mormons, for instance, instead of just going forward with their lives spend what seems most of their lives spreading hatred against the LDS Church with all kinds of evil motivations attributed to the Church and its members.
Sad, why don't these people like Caner and Ed Decker get a life.

[Utah Girl]

Ping

[Antoninus]

Whether it was the crusades to "liberate" the Holy Land from muslim control, or the Inquisition to smoke out heretics, or the brutal persecution of fellow Christians who had somewhat different theologies than the dominant one, Christian zeal has produced barbarism after barbarism in the record of history.

Weak. It's so easy to lift these events out of their historical milieu, point to them and say "See, Christians are barbarians too!" Unfortunately, when they are put into proper context, the truth becomes all to clear. Were there brutal tyrants who claimed to be Christians? Undoubtedly. Were they Christians in their hearts? Definitely not. And to state that Christianity has become a 'peaceful' religion only recently, is to be almost completely ignorant of history.

Furthermore, if you ask me, the Crusades were a just war. At times, they were executed badly and occasional atrocities were committed. However, at the time, the Crusades were considered a rescue mission, not a war of new conquest.

[OWK]

From somebody who has consistently taken an anti-Christian stance based on previous posts I've read from you...perhaps you should consider not using this forum as your platform of spewing hate for Christianity and deal with the real spiritual issues of yourself privately; thus not provoking others to come down to your level. Spiritual matters are issues mainly of the heart, intellect and reason are part of it, but they are not the means to an end when talking about ones faith.

It would seem to me that the thread was primarily associated with the bashing of the Muslim faith, and my entry into the thread was a direct result of a ping from the thread's poster "smith288".

I would likely otherwise have ignored it.

As for your assertion that "perhaps you should consider not using this forum as your platform of spewing hate for Christianity".... I would answer by saying that I have no "hate for Christianity" whatsoever. In fact I have a profound respect for those who actually practice the faith in accordance with the instructions set forth by Jesus. Unfortunately, I find them to be exceedingly rare.

I do however, find men who see any objectively honest discussion of history and the failure of men to live up to the teachings of Jesus as "hate for Christianity" to be quite common. And like the pharisees, they are the ones who complain loudly when truth enters the picture.

They are generally a pretty obnoxious bunch.

[OWK]

I come here to discuss political and world events with my fellow conservatives and to get the latest on whats going on in the world.

I come here to discuss liberty, rights, and the foundational truths of philosophy and ethical systems.

[smith288]

His live is to spread the word of Christ. He knows, as a former muslim, that they need to accept Christ...He isnt tearing them down, he is opening their eyes to Christs love. No weapons involved.

[smith288]

you left out conservative fellows....Liberals go to Democratic Underground.

[OWK]

you left out conservative fellows..

No, I didn't.

I am not a conservative, nor do I pretend to be. I am a libertarian. The website's owner has made clear that libertarians are welcome here. Or perhaps you believe that it is YOUR place (and not his) to determine these things?