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Mosin Nagant Rifles: Can they be converted to .308 NATO?
4/9/02 | 7.63Broom

Posted on 04/09/2002 12:19:09 PM PDT by 7.63Broom

I've been looking for a good Mauser in .308 and have had no luck. The Mosin Nagant rifles are numerous and cheap, but they fire the 7.62x54R round. I'm wondering if one of these rifles would be a good candidate for conversion to .308 NATO. I would like to hear from anyone with any information on such a conversion.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2a; bang; gun; rifle
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1 posted on 04/09/2002 12:19:09 PM PDT by 7.63Broom
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To: 7.63Broom
DON'T.

The bore size is different, the Ruskie is rimmed the NATO is rimless and the NATO pressure is WAY higher.

Big 5 Sporting Goods here in Seattle is selling Bruno M98's in 8mm for $50-80. A much better bet. They sell the Turk 98's as low as $40 on sale.

Just my $.02.

cpu
2 posted on 04/09/2002 12:25:44 PM PDT by Cpu
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To: 7.63Broom
Sounds like a BAD idea. Stick to the original ammo for these old clunkers: keeping in mind they were WWI and WWII issue.

It wouldn't hurt to have a competent gunsmith check the rascal over, as well !

3 posted on 04/09/2002 12:28:32 PM PDT by genefromjersey
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To: 7.63Broom
A friend of mine bought a Spanish Mauser converted to 30-06. It blew up the first time he fired it. Lucky he wasn't hurt.
4 posted on 04/09/2002 12:28:35 PM PDT by aomagrat
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To: 7.63Broom
Conversions that have different cartridge head measurements are not cost effective. The 7.62x54R is a rimmed cartridge and an example of a non-economic conversion. There are some 7.62 NATO Mauser 98's at decent prices, look for Israeli army surplus, they converted a bunch in the late '40's and early '50's.
5 posted on 04/09/2002 12:29:26 PM PDT by spqrzilla9
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: 7.63Broom
Why? 7.62X54R is dirt cheap.
7 posted on 04/09/2002 12:31:06 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: 7.63Broom
Other possible items are .308 Reconditioned Enfield Jungle Carbines by Gibbs Rifle Co. and getting a 1903 Springfield (30-06) from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I think I have also seen some .308 Garand M-1s in the CMP listings. I don't know about converting one, but K98's, new Yugoslav manufacture (new but old) are out there. Before this thread is over you'll have more info and opinions than you suspected possible! :)
8 posted on 04/09/2002 12:36:22 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: 7.63Broom
I bet if ya smack the bolt on that Mosin hard enough, the 7.62 NATO will go right in! Just kidding, DONT DO THAT!

As cheap as the Mosin is, and the ammo as well, why bother to convert it. 7.62 X 54 is cheap range fodder, as is 8MM Mauser, and both rifles are available at very attractive prices through surplus outlets. I recently bought a Yugo M48-A for $110 plus shipping.

Cheap fun!

9 posted on 04/09/2002 12:42:11 PM PDT by Don Carlos
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Good point. You might be limited to military ball, but its plentiful.
10 posted on 04/09/2002 12:42:36 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: 7.63Broom
Poor steel, poor action and a good wall hanger
11 posted on 04/09/2002 12:42:39 PM PDT by STD
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To: Don Carlos
I bet if ya smack the bolt on that Mosin hard enough, the 7.62 NATO will go right in!

You got that out of Headspacing for Dummies! :)

12 posted on 04/09/2002 12:43:50 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: 7.63Broom
You might consider leaving the Mosin in 7.62/54. Ammo is cheap and it is close to 30/06 in power. Some interesting scopes and mounts are available. A converted Enfield may suit your desire for a cheap .308
13 posted on 04/09/2002 12:44:02 PM PDT by earplug
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To: Cpu
Do they deal over the Internet?
14 posted on 04/09/2002 12:44:28 PM PDT by JSteff
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Ill have you to know, I get all my data from manuals that begin with "...for dummies"!
15 posted on 04/09/2002 12:49:25 PM PDT by Don Carlos
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To: JSteff
JSteff,

Check out a publication called Gun List. All sorts of good stuff in there. It should be available at your local Borders Bookstore.

Of course, in order to place an order with any of the firearms distributors in there you will need to run the transaction through your local friendly FFL holder first.
Check out the local gun shows if you have them in your area. I ended up buying a German K-98 converted to 30'06 for $100 last fall. It shoots great!

Semper Fi!

16 posted on 04/09/2002 12:50:30 PM PDT by dd5339
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To: Tijeras_Slim
What kind of range does that .308 Enfield have? I saw a Mark III (I think it was a III) yesterday and I liked the lightweight aspect compared to Mausers.
17 posted on 04/09/2002 12:54:34 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: 7.63Broom
Anything that shoots can be converted to something else that shoots. The only barriers are money and time and headaches. If you want to spend $1000 - $2500 you can have the Nagant stripped to its action, a new bolt can be manufactered or the old one modified to the .308 Win (7.62 Nato) rim, and the action re-barreled, re-chambered and re-stocked by a competent gunsmith. However, once you did all this, you would have a $2000 Nagant worth about $200. My advice: Buy a new Remington 700 chambered in .308 and save about $1000!
18 posted on 04/09/2002 12:55:27 PM PDT by 45Auto
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To: Rebelbase
I picked up a Ishapor 2A in .308. Smoking little gun. Recoil belies its weight, action is a charm just like any Enfield. Accurate as hell, no formal group size but I would guess around 2 inches. If you want a bolt-action battle rifle in .308, one of these would be my recommendation. They are a bit hard to find though.
19 posted on 04/09/2002 12:59:15 PM PDT by WALLACE212
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To: WALLACE212
And to answer your question, I have made a 350 yd. shot with iron, the sights dial out to 800 yds.
20 posted on 04/09/2002 1:00:45 PM PDT by WALLACE212
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To: 7.63Broom
7.62 x 54R FMJ at $4.50/box of 20 (Wolf)
or
$8.25/box of 20 for soft point hunting rounds. (S&B)

J&G sales

Ashland, Missouri

21 posted on 04/09/2002 1:01:51 PM PDT by rface
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To: 45Auto;all
Two words... 6.5 x .308 ...
22 posted on 04/09/2002 1:01:55 PM PDT by g'nad
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To: Rebelbase
In the 50's under NATO, some Enfields were manufactured with higher strength steel in .308 (7.62x51) same caliber as the M-14.
23 posted on 04/09/2002 1:13:48 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: g'nad
Now you've gone and made me think, 6.5 * 308? You're talking of necking down the 308 to a 6.5, interesting!

I've been chewing over building a rifle around the new 300 WSM necked down to 6.5 mm. Shot a Remeington 700 set up that way and loved it. Am thinking that it would be a really great all around cartridge for most types of deer/antelope/elk hunting in North America.

Just my $0.02 though.

Semper Fi!

24 posted on 04/09/2002 1:15:14 PM PDT by dd5339
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To: Tijeras_Slim
I just checked out the Gibbs Rifle Co. . The .308 sport models look sweet!
25 posted on 04/09/2002 1:25:08 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: spqrzilla9
Wow. I come back from lunch and there are a lot of answers to my question. Thanks for all the feedback, guys.

I'd like to find one of those Israeli 98K's but haven't been able to find one. I ordered one through a company that advertised in Shotgun News but they sent my order back, saying that the FN's they had were worn out and not shootable. If anyone knows of a source for a .308 Mauser, please FReepmail me.

I really like reading the 2A threads on FR. It's the next best thing to sitting around with a bunch of "gun nuts" and talking shop. Thanks again, guys.

26 posted on 04/09/2002 1:27:17 PM PDT by 7.63Broom
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To: 7.63Broom
Spanish FR8. Large ring Mauser from around 1948ish (least mine are). .308. 5 round box mag. Relatively small. Built in flash suppressor. $175ish.
27 posted on 04/09/2002 1:33:21 PM PDT by ibbryn
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To: ibbryn
Are those things safe? The FR8 was originaly chambered in the .30 cal CETME round, with an aluminum cored bullet and a MUCH lower chamber pressure from what I have heard. I have been told the .308 converts were iffy, possible eyeball removers.
28 posted on 04/09/2002 1:37:20 PM PDT by WALLACE212
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To: g'nad
>>Two words... 6.5 x .308 ...

Hmm. Isn't that about a .257 Roberts? (.257 x 7mm) My favorite.

29 posted on 04/09/2002 1:38:51 PM PDT by Wisconsin
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To: WALLACE212
There is a ton of debate on this subject. Try rec.guns for details. Bottom line for me, I feel safe with mine.
30 posted on 04/09/2002 1:54:19 PM PDT by ibbryn
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To: ibbryn
Yeah, I have heard extremes on either side of that debate. If you own and shoot one regularly, that says a lot more than a magazine article to me. Thanks for the info.
31 posted on 04/09/2002 1:56:06 PM PDT by WALLACE212
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To: Rebelbase
The .308 sport models look sweet!

You're not kidding. I'd never heard of them before but they sure do make some beautiful rifles. I'm partial to the Quest II Extreme Carbine.


32 posted on 04/09/2002 2:00:47 PM PDT by Drew68
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To: 7.63Broom
Why convert? There's nothing wrong with the 7.62 x 54R ballistics. I understand the long barrel M39 Mosin is pretty accurate. I own (2) M44's; they are the most bang for the buck, though a bit squirrelly at 100 yards.
33 posted on 04/09/2002 2:06:05 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: Wisconsin
Close...it's a .308 necked down to 6.5 mm...The precision weapons guys here are getting phenomenal performance outta semi-auto sniper weapons with the 6.5... The CWO5 said they were causin' serious hate and discontent overseas...I held one...shweeeet.....
34 posted on 04/09/2002 2:14:38 PM PDT by g'nad
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To: 7.63Broom
Dear 7.63Broom,There is an outfit called"R GUNS".They are running an ad in the April 2002 edition of"The American Rifleman".They are advertising pre-war FN Mfg.98K Mausers that were converted by The Israeli Gov't to 308 in the 1950's.The quality appears to be good.A"hand-picked"example would go for $149.00.Their e-mail is:rguns@voyager.net Good Luck and God Bless!!
35 posted on 04/09/2002 2:22:59 PM PDT by bandleader
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Soft point, tracer, and AP is also available. As is match grade ammo.
36 posted on 04/09/2002 2:31:46 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants
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To: 7.63Broom
If you are looking for an inexpensive rifle in 308 that will out perform just about any other $2K machine, look for a Remington 788.

With the right loads, these rifles can shoot 1/4 inch groups or better. This model has not been made in over 25 years and can be picked up for a steal at Gun Shows. Just check the bore throughly.

The story is that the Head of Remington Manufacturing at that time was fired for spending too much on the gun. The same goes for the long action Model 78. Mine in 30-06 will print three shot groups that touch each other @100 yards.

We had found an excellent condition 788 for a buddy in 308, cleaned the bedding surface, used special techniques for bore cleaning and were able to get three shot groups that over-lap one another.

37 posted on 04/09/2002 3:34:03 PM PDT by Deguello
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To: Kalashnikov_68
American Rifleman reviewed that one in the past year or so.
38 posted on 04/09/2002 3:37:37 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: Kalashnikov_68
That is sweet...

Here's another from that site...I've been wanting a 45-70...hmmm


39 posted on 04/09/2002 3:45:04 PM PDT by in the Arena
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To: 7.63Broom
.308 Enfields

I have one. It shoots great. It cost me less than 150 bucks.

L

40 posted on 04/09/2002 3:47:06 PM PDT by Lurker
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To: Cpu
The bore size is different,

No,they are both 30 caliber.

the Ruskie is rimmed the NATO is rimless and the NATO pressure is WAY higher.

They are loaded to similiar pressure levels. The 762x54R is actually between the 762 Nato and the old 30/06 is power. The NATO round is a 762x51,and IF I remember correctly,the 30/06 is a 7.62x63.

Having said all this,why bother? It's really not worth the expense,especially when there is plenty of 762x54R ammo around,and it is slightly more powerful than the 7.62 NATO to begin with.

If you absolutly,positively have to have a .308 Winchester rifle,buy a Savage bolt action with the heavy barrell. Do NOT buy one of the converted M95 or M96 Mausers with only 2 locking lugs. The old 7X57 Mauser round they were made for IS loaded to a much lower pressure than current 7.62 NATO ammo,and the rifles are unsafe when altered.

41 posted on 04/09/2002 4:03:27 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: Tijeras_Slim
Other possible items are .308 Reconditioned Enfield Jungle Carbines by Gibbs Rifle Co.

Do NOT do this! SMLE's only have one locking lug at the rear,and are NOT safe to convert over to higher pressure cartridges,and I don't give a damn WHO tells you they are.

and getting a 1903 Springfield (30-06) from the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

Good luck,there! If you do happen to get a 03A3 from CMP,do NOT covert it over! You can probably sell it as is to a collector for enough to buy a new Savage.

The easiest and cheapest military rifle to convert over to 308 is the old 7.7 Japanese Arisaka. Same case head diameter,and same bolt face dimensions. You don't even need to modify the feed rails or the magazine. About all you need is a surplus Springfield barrell to thread and chamber. Good luck finding one today,though. They are also getting pretty scarce and pricey now. If you have to pay somebody else to thread and chamber the barrell,it would be cheaper to go ahead and buy a new Savage and be done with it. It just doesn't pay to modify surplus military rifles anymore.

42 posted on 04/09/2002 4:10:33 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: STD
Poor steel, poor action and a good wall hanger

Damn fine steel,and a strong action,even if it isn't all that attractive. Many of these things were even made by Winchester before and during WW-2,and I THINK a bunch of them were made by Remington during WW-1. Never heard of one blowing up.

43 posted on 04/09/2002 4:13:30 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: CWRWinger
My two Finn M-39s are sweet shooters, money well spent IMHO.
44 posted on 04/09/2002 4:14:20 PM PDT by junta
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To: Tijeras_Slim
In the 50's under NATO, some Enfields were manufactured with higher strength steel in .308 (7.62x51) same caliber as the M-14.

It doesn't matter. Like all SMLE's,it still only has the one locking lug at the rear,which means there is no margin for error. If they one lug breaks,you end up with a new eye accessory,a rifle bolt. LOTS bigger than the trendiest ear rings,and a fashion accessory I don't think will really catch on.

45 posted on 04/09/2002 4:17:56 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: dd5339
I've been chewing over building a rifle around the new 300 WSM necked down to 6.5 mm.

Winchester did something similiar years ago,when they chambered Model 70's in .264 Winchester Magnum. Throat erosion and barrel wear was a problem,as this created severe overbore. Some antelope hunters out west swore by it,though.

46 posted on 04/09/2002 4:21:22 PM PDT by sneakypete
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To: sneakypete
---The bore size is different
----No,they are both 30 caliber.

Nominally true, but the NATO bullet is .308 dia and the Ruski is .311 ala the .303 Brit.

------the Ruskie is rimmed the NATO is rimless and the NATO pressure is WAY higher.
--------They are loaded to similiar pressure levels. The 762x54R is actually between the 762 Nato and the old 30/06 is power. The NATO round is a 762x51,and IF I remember correctly,the 30/06 is a 7.62x63.

Bull. SAAMI pressure in the 7.62mm is 51K. The "x63/54/63" is the case length, it has nothing to do with chamber pressure.

---------Having said all this,why bother? It's really not worth the expense,especially when there is plenty of 762x54R ammo around,and it is slightly more powerful than the 7.62 NATO to begin with. If you absolutly,positively have to have a .308 Winchester rifle,buy a Savage bolt action with the heavy barrell.

This is not my project. I agree that its a bad idea and that the Savage is a nice rifle. I was not the original poster

cpu
47 posted on 04/09/2002 4:21:48 PM PDT by Cpu
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To: junta
I have a C&R FFL and I need to find one of those M-39's. They are definitely sturdy guns and I keep hearing about how accurate they are. I was able to hand pick (2) M44's from a lot of (40). I have never seen that many M-39's in one place yet. I'm picky, all the serial numbers have to match, bluing has to be very good or better and the furniture can't be messed up. (You've got me thinkin' though)
48 posted on 04/09/2002 4:51:07 PM PDT by CWRWinger
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To: sneakypete
So you would advocate rechambering for 308?
49 posted on 04/09/2002 4:53:42 PM PDT by STD
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To: CWRWinger
Try Empire Arms Dennis Kroh seems to have the pick of the litter from the importers. One of mine is an antique from the Chatterault armory in France 1894 vintage not a looker but a shooter, my other one is a non-descript Russkie Tula I think but don't hold me to it it too is "used" but a fine shooter. Check out Tucos since you have a C&R I'll bet you know about mosin.net, but if you don't the folks on that message board know their Mosin-Nagants. I have four Mosins but of them all I like the M-39s the best by far, they are a real battle rifle.
50 posted on 04/09/2002 5:00:47 PM PDT by junta
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