Photo of SU-27 fighter plane crashing near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv

Reuters ^ | July 27, 2002 | Reuters

[jern]

A TV frame shows spectators looking on as a SU-27 fighter plane crashes while performing maneuvers at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. The Ukrainian fighter jet hurtled to the ground and cartwheeled into a ball of flame during an airshow at Lviv on Saturday, killing around 40 and injuring dozens of spectators, officials said. REUTERS TELEVISION

[Tennessee_Bob]

I understand from the news reports that the aircrew ejected from the aircraft - I'd say that left wingtip is about three feet off the ground at this point...talk about last second.

[TheOtherOne]

Sat Jul 27, 9:52 AM ET

An Su-27 performs a maneuver close to the ground moments before crashing Saturday, July 27, 2002, in Lviv, Ukraine. The plane crashed into a huge crowd of spectators at an air show, killing at least 60 people and injuring 70 others in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, emergency officials said. (AP Photo/NTV via APTN)

Sat Jul 27, 9:28 AM ET

A TV frame shows spectators looking on just seconds before a SU-27 fighter plane crashes while performing maneuvers at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. The Ukrainian fighter jet hurtled to the ground and cartwheeled into a ball of flame during an airshow at Lviv on Saturday, killing around 45 and injuring more than 60 spectators, officials said. REUTERS TELEVISION

Sat Jul 27,10:57 AM ET

An SU-27 fighter plane crashes while performing maneuvers at an air show near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. Sixty-six people were killed and 67 were hospitalized, officials said Saturday. (Reuters)

Sat Jul 27,10:48 AM ET

Spectators run for cover as a Sukhoi SU-27 fighter plane crashes and explodes at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. Sixty-six people were killed and and 67 were hospitalized officials said on Saturday after the two pilots lost control of their plane during a fly-by. REUTERS/Stringer

Sat Jul 27, 9:29 AM ET

A TV frame shows Ukrainian medics attend injured spectators after an SU-27 fighter plane crashed while performing manoevers at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. The Ukrainian fighter jet hurtled to the ground and cartwheeled into a ball of flame during an airshow at Lviv on Saturday, killing around 40 and injuring dozens of spectators, officials said. REUTERS TELEVISION

[struwwelpeter]

MiG-29 and Su-27 have the K-36 "Zvezda" (Star) ejection system. They can bail at high-speed or even zero speed/zero altitude. Even in inverted flight!

At the Paris airshow decades back a Fulcrum lost power and the pilot brough it into an empty field. As the nose was crunching he catapulted out. The seat shot him straight out, then righted him, rockets blasted him up a few hundred feet and then the chute opened and deposited him back on the ground unharmed.

Try doing that with our Martin-Baker system!

[Tennessee_Bob]

ACES II is the way to go.

I was just commenting on the fact that these guys waited till the very last second to get out of the aircraft - trying to save it every inch of the way.

[BigBobber]

Guess I'll skip the air show at Moffett Field today.

[null and void]

No guts no glory. There's always the Garlic Festival

[okie01]

"At the Paris airshow decades back a Fulcrum lost power and the pilot brough it into an empty field. As the nose was crunching he catapulted out. The seat shot him straight out, then righted him, rockets blasted him up a few hundred feet and then the chute opened and deposited him back on the ground unharmed."

Saw the footage last night on the Discovery channel, I think it was.

Amazing system!

[struwwelpeter]

The best aircraft in the world are only as good as their pilots and maintenance crews :-(

[TheOtherOne]

Sat Jul 27,10:55 AM ET

A man walk past victims' bodies after an Sukhoi SU-27 fighter plane crashed and exploded at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. Sixty-six people were killed and and 67 hospitalized officials said on Saturday after the two pilots lost control of their plane during a maneuver and ejected. REUTERS/Stringer

Sat Jul 27, 9:38 AM ET

A TV frame shows an injured woman comforting an injured child after an SU-27 fighter plane crashed while performing maneuvers at an airshow near the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, July 27, 2002. The Ukrainian fighter jet hurtled to the ground and cartwheeled into a ball of flame during an airshow at Lviv on Saturday, killing around 45 and injuring more than 60 spectators, officials said. REUTERS TELEVISION

Sat Jul 27,11:40 AM ET

Firefighters extinguish a fire in the wreckages of Su-27 jet that crashed into a huge crowd of spectators at an air show in Lviv, Ukraine, Saturday, July 27, 2002. According to preliminary information from the Emergency Situations Ministry, the two crewmen ejected and survived, but at least 60 spectators were killed people and 70 others were injured. (AP Photo/Str)

[hole_n_one]

Guess I'll skip the air show at Moffett Field today.

If you follow that logic to it's final conclusion, you would be a shut-in, complete with bed sores and human feces abound.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Bob those planes are junk. Copied off American technology and blueprints, rushed into design and production. Also no qualified pilots for them. Bad scene all the way around. We could send our F4s against them and they'd do ok.

At PW we had a saying: "Never time to do it right, but always time to do it over"

[RedBloodedAmerican]

ping

[hole_n_one]

Video 1

Video 2

[AdA$tra]

We could send our F4s against them and they'd do ok.

That might be a bit optimistic...lol.

[hole_n_one]

Death toll has climbed to 70

[Kermit]

We should buy their system for our planes. The best is the goal.

[TheOtherOne]

Wow, Thanks for the video links. I watched them slow and full screen. You can see the pilot eject in one and in the other the wing tip slide across the ground. Very dramatic stuff.

[null and void]

In a thread about 2-3 weeks ago there was some serious discussion about the US buying production rights to the Su-27. Their airframe and our avionics would be a powerful combination.

[madvlad]

Yaaa, a few yrs back Fortune Mag indicated that
the Russians made the best a/c ejection systems
in the world. I guess that goes to mean that
they build the absolute worst aircraft in the world.
But the pilot will be able to get out up until the
very last second.

I suspect that the F-14, the F-16 and the F-15
can more than hold their own against anything the
Russians have ever built. Even given that the
airframe technology of these planes hasn't changed
that much since their inception from the early to
the mid 70s.

Wonder how far the ATF/JSF will widen the gap....

BTW, does anyone have any knowledge of how
an F-14 or F-16 would fare one on one w/ a French
Mirage (ssuming all else is equal, ie, weapons,
capablities, training, maintenance, etc) given
that it is just the two pilots and their respective
machines????

I'm thinking even odds on paper but if its an
American-piloted F-14/16, I'm giving the advantage
to the American.

Now, here is the devil's advocate: The Mirage
vs the F14/16, Now, put the American pilot in
the Mirage. Who wins?

Mad Vlad

[null and void]

or was that the Su-37...

[michigander]

Zvezda K-36 ejection seat
Link
Link

Russian Ejection Seat Considered for F-22

[archy]

No guts no glory. There's always the Garlic Festival

Indeed. Sometimes, with some pretty swell bands, like Magic Wanda:

<===click on pic for *Heroes in the Sky*

-archy

[Paleo Conservative]

We could send our F4s against them and they'd do ok.

I thought we got rid of all our F4s except for the drones. I'm sure that Israeli F-4s would do pretty well.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

At the Paris airshow decades back a Fulcrum lost power and the pilot brough it into an empty field. As the nose was crunching he catapulted out. The seat shot him straight out, then righted him, rockets blasted him up a few hundred feet and then the chute opened and deposited him back on the ground unharmed.

Not quite. 8 June 1989, Anatoli Kvotchur punched out at about 500 feet and didn't get blasted up a few hundred more. He and the plane almost returned to terra firma simultaneously. His canopy didn't even fully open before he hit the deck.

[Bedford Forrest]

Well Done, Smedley - things were getting a little deep. Spent many hours [approx 1900] with a MB F-9 seat strapped to my butt - the first of the true Zero Zero rocket seats put out by MB, as I recall, a thousand years before the Ruskies had anything of the sort. Didn't the early MIG's [15, 17 & 19]have wicker chairs in them; the face curtain was a blindfold, right?

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Yeah, I get tired of all the "Zvezda is the greatest" BS.

Don't know if you saw the following when it was posted but it's a good read.

Surviving Partial ejection from an A-6

[El Gato]

Bob those planes are junk. Copied off American technology and blueprints, rushed into design and production. Also no qualified pilots for them. Bad scene all the way around. We could send our F4s against them and they'd do ok.

Dreamer. Both the Mig-29 and Su-27 are damn fine airframes. Engines are not up to US standards, but much better than earlier Soviet ones. Where the airplanes come up short is in their radars and other electronics, this makes them more dependent on ground control, and consequently somewhat less flexible. Their missiles are pretty decent too. Their BVR radar guided one isn't quite up to AMRAAM standards, but does have longer range. They have a long range IR version too, something we don't have. They'd eat a US F-4 alive, but a Luftwaffe one with the APG-65 (same as F-18) would probably come out on top, depending on conditions.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

So the only positive aspect of the aircraft you note is

fine airframes

which confirms my comment. Thanks.

[El Gato]

We should buy their system for our planes. The best is the goal.

Already done. Licensed production by what has become a subsidary of Goodrich. Don't know which, if any aircraft have them though.

[willyone]

And your point is?

[virgil]

I was just commenting on the fact that these guys waited till the very last second to get out of the aircraft

It looks like the spectators waited until the last minute to run too.