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Evidence for Major Impact Events in the late Third Millennium BC
Evidence of Astronomical Aspects of Mankind's Past and Recent Climate Homepage ^ | FR Post 9-4-2 | Timo Niroma

Posted on 09/04/2002 4:48:54 PM PDT by vannrox

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I love this stuff.
1 posted on 09/04/2002 4:48:55 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
It seems that every time there is a change in the direction of civilizations there has benn a change in the weather. (3200, 2200, 1200, (all B.C.), 200 A.D.) The times are general but the pattern exists.
2 posted on 09/04/2002 4:57:56 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: vannrox; blam
dendrochronology bump
3 posted on 09/04/2002 5:04:21 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: vannrox
i love this stuff too BUMP
4 posted on 09/04/2002 5:14:24 PM PDT by Mr. K
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To: Mr. K
bump
5 posted on 09/04/2002 5:22:49 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: vannrox; RightWhale
"I love this stuff."

"dendrochronology bump"

Hey guys, you're preaching to the choir. Okay here goes.

The tree rings have recorded major worldwide affecting events at the following times: 3195BC, 2354BC, 1628BC, 1159BC and 540AD. There were also two smaller events at 207BC and 44BC. (Many, Clube, Napier, Bailey, Baillie believe the 540AD event (Start of Dark Ages) was caused by a comet fragment or comet swarm.)

6 posted on 09/04/2002 5:27:19 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Anything show up that explains the population decline and abandonment of cropland in the Western part of the Roman Empire after 200 A.D.
7 posted on 09/04/2002 5:37:58 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: vannrox
Check this out
8 posted on 09/04/2002 5:38:11 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
But I thought Global Warming was caused by the USA and our greedy dependance on oil? How could this have happened without US?
9 posted on 09/04/2002 5:46:21 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: vannrox
My theory suggests that the southern part of the Dead Sea is a meteorite crater that catalysmically was born around 2200 BC.

Great post - I love this stuff too and I agree with Blam re: 540 AD too many weird things went on then.

10 posted on 09/04/2002 6:59:44 PM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: blam

"...ASTRO-METRICS, a new planet formation theory has been posted that combines aspects of both general relativity and theology. Previously material posted on this web site suggest that there is a Jovian sized planet or dark star companion to our Sun. This object, dubbed Vulcan, attracts comets from both the Oort cloud or Kuiper belt casting some of them towards Earth. Some fragmented comets form five identified comet swarms that exist in quasi-stable 3:2 resonant orbits. The period of these swarms is about two thirds Vulcan's period, or 3300 years. They alternately pass through the inner solar system striking the Earth, Moon and other inner planets..."



Blam, thanks for the most excellent link. A great read!
11 posted on 09/04/2002 7:47:57 PM PDT by vannrox
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To: Little Bill
"Anything show up that explains the population decline and abandonment of cropland in the Western part of the Roman Empire after 200 A.D."

Sorry, I don't know/have much on that period.

12 posted on 09/04/2002 8:22:52 PM PDT by blam
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To: Mike Darancette; Little Bill
Catastrophic Event Preceded The Dark Ages
13 posted on 09/04/2002 8:27:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: Mike Darancette; Little Bill
Here is the bad boy that caused the 2200+-BC problem:

Disaster That Struck The Ancients
There is a picture of the crater in post #16.

14 posted on 09/04/2002 8:32:55 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
According to that schedule, we are due for another right about now.
15 posted on 09/04/2002 8:38:09 PM PDT by RightWhale
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To: vannrox
An overview of my own vision of prehistory and catastrophism.

Other than that, there are compelling reasons for a major shortening of med basin prehistory and chronology. In fact, there is compelling reason to believe that there simply is no real med basin history going back more than about 3000 years, and that everything we thought we had for the second and third millenia BC turns out to be the kind of ghost and double images which Velikovsky described in Ages in Chaos. The most compelling and readable works along these lines which I am aware of are Emmet Sweeneys "The Pyramid Age", and "Genesis of Israel and Egypt". Those two items are must reads for anybody interested in this stuff.

16 posted on 09/04/2002 8:40:46 PM PDT by medved
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To: blam
His difficulties were immeasurably increased by the devastation wrought by the plague carried westward by the returning legions of Verus, by famine and earthquakes, and by inundations which destroyed the vast granaries of Rome and their contents.

In the panic and terror caused by these events the people resorted to the extremes of superstition to win back the favour of the deities through whose anger it was believed these visitations were inflicted.

Strange rites of expiation and sacrifice were resorted to, victims were slain by thousands, and the assistance of the gods of the Orient sought for as well as that of the gods of Rome.

This is from the time of Marcus Aurelius, 181 AD, sounds like something happened. The depopulation of the next few centuries can be traced to this time.

17 posted on 09/04/2002 8:41:31 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: RightWhale
"According to that schedule, we are due for another right about now."

Yup. ...and can you imagine what the survivors will write into the religious books? (Let's hope it hits the middle east again, hee, hee)

18 posted on 09/04/2002 8:43:26 PM PDT by blam
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To: Little Bill
Look for an acid lay (volcano) in the Ice Core data. This could have had dramatic effects, even small local volcanos.
19 posted on 09/04/2002 8:51:41 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I'll give it a look and then see if I can get some backup from something else. I have been suspicious of dating since they got the Thera explosion date wrong by 400 years on the short side.
20 posted on 09/04/2002 9:04:08 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill
"I'll give it a look and then see if I can get some backup from something else. I have been suspicious of dating since they got the Thera explosion date wrong by 400 years on the short side."

The Thera explosion was in 1628BC, same time as the Exodus. Thera was their "Staff by day, torch by night."

21 posted on 09/04/2002 9:08:30 PM PDT by blam
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To: Little Bill
I just read a book "In the Wake of the Plaque." Small pox throughout the Roman empire 240-250. Don't know if that's related.
22 posted on 09/04/2002 9:09:07 PM PDT by breakem
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To: vannrox
Apparently, figuring out how to fend off large rocks is a prerequisite for a species to expand beyond its planet of origin...
23 posted on 09/04/2002 9:11:05 PM PDT by Interesting Times
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To: blam
If you remember when they started digging around on Thera the expert opinion was that the explosion occured around 1200 +/- and destroyed both mainland Greed and Minoan civilizations.

Tree rings and Ice Cores proved that wrong, when on for quite a while if I remember right, 10/15 years.

24 posted on 09/04/2002 9:14:11 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: vannrox
read later
25 posted on 09/04/2002 9:31:09 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: LiteKeeper
This is why the whole USA is changing the climate crowd needs to crawl back into their hole. A single event like this or a super volcano will do more damage to the world than the US has or could ever do. In the blink of an eye.
26 posted on 09/04/2002 9:35:04 PM PDT by Naspino
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To: vannrox
bump to read tomorrow
27 posted on 09/04/2002 9:37:42 PM PDT by Beach_Babe
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To: Little Bill
"Tree rings and Ice Cores proved that wrong, when on for quite a while if I remember right, 10/15 years."

Yup. FReeper LostTribe and I still occassionally fuss about the 1628BC date for Exodus.

28 posted on 09/04/2002 9:41:21 PM PDT by blam
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To: breakem
Years ago I read a book called "Plagues and Peoples". one of the things that the author pointed out was that a healthy population recovers from a plague, stuff like food, warm clothing, and enought fuel contributes to the health of a population.

One of the reasons that the population of Europe was hit so hard by the Black Plague was that is was not healthy, there was a shortage of most of the above. Then after the plague hit the Little Ice age set in which reduced the area under cultivation, took centuries to recover.

The western Roman Empire had a problem with a shrinking population and a reduction of cultivated land starting in about 200, plague (?) they can't find enough bodies to match the stories. Samething with the plague in Justinians' time (532), no bones. As Blam speculated there is evidence of and impact of some sort around that time.

29 posted on 09/04/2002 9:50:10 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: blam
Could be right the ejecta path ended up in SE Asia Minor and Thera is North East of Crete.
30 posted on 09/04/2002 9:53:27 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill
It was the 1150s-1200s before the europeans had enough food and heat to sustain large populations. Weather was warm and more people eating beef. Some of those claimed by the plague may have actually been anthrax (In The Wake of the Plague). As for the Romans 240-250 AD small pox

400-425 AD Gohnerrhea (sp).

750 AD The plague

31 posted on 09/04/2002 9:57:23 PM PDT by breakem
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To: Carry_Okie
ping
32 posted on 09/04/2002 10:06:14 PM PDT by farmfriend
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To: breakem
It was the 1150s-1200s before the europeans had enough food and heat to sustain large populations.

Around there I woulds imagine. In the Domesday Book the town that my family originated in had a population of 250, that was in 1068, in 1279 the population was about 1500 with about the same area.

I do think though that small pox was a symptom of decline reather than a cause.

33 posted on 09/04/2002 10:11:06 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: blam
Yup. ...and can you imagine what the survivors will write into the religious books? (Let's hope it hits the middle east again, hee, hee)

And if God forbid the impact is on us, what will the Moslems say about how we were smited by Allah?
34 posted on 09/04/2002 10:32:37 PM PDT by Kozak
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To: vannrox
bump for reading tomorrow
35 posted on 09/04/2002 10:34:32 PM PDT by NorseWood
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To: vannrox; blam; liberallarry; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs
Indexing.

Many thanks. It's pretty nifty schtuffe all righty.

The question is, is there anything we can do about it? The pattern says we had better get cracking.
36 posted on 09/04/2002 10:45:04 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Interesting Times
Apparently, figuring out how to fend off large rocks is a prerequisite for a species to expand beyond its planet of origin...

Developing a species that MIGHT be capable of protecting the Earth from big nasty rocks is the Earth's survival strategy.

37 posted on 09/04/2002 10:59:21 PM PDT by Mike Darancette
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To: B4Ranch
YFI :-)
38 posted on 09/04/2002 11:26:05 PM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: Carry_Okie
Bookmark bump.
39 posted on 09/04/2002 11:50:43 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: blam
That was an interesting link. Thanks.
40 posted on 09/04/2002 11:55:23 PM PDT by altair
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To: Naspino
A single event like this or a super volcano will do more damage to the world than the US has or could ever do. In the blink of an eye.

Yup.

41 posted on 09/05/2002 12:09:54 AM PDT by altair
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To: Seti 1
You might want to check this thread, and see if it looks like I'm the "last Velikovskian" on FR, much less in the world...
42 posted on 09/05/2002 1:14:03 AM PDT by medved
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To: vannrox
I love this stuff.

Me, too.
Bookmarked.

43 posted on 09/05/2002 1:17:50 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: vannrox
I love this stuff, too!

I do not have much of my library handy, so I'll ask if there are Western Hemisphere cataclysms in the same general time frame. Impacts or extreme volcanism should have some global effect, unlike my old Lincoln....

As a result, cataclysm on a grand scale should impact civilizations worldwide. When did the Anasazi check out? What was going on in MesoAmerica at the time? You may find supporting evidence there.

44 posted on 09/05/2002 1:35:21 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe
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To: Naspino
Hey! The Yellowstone caldera magma pool is getting its bulge back, who knows? That one made St Helens look like a very small firecracker...
45 posted on 09/05/2002 1:38:47 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe
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To: vannrox
Society for Interdisciplinary Studies

Menu


SIS Conference 2002
Ages Still in Chaos
An investigation into progress made in the revision of ancient history since 1952, and possible ways ahead

13 - 15 September 2002, London

Introduction

The conference marks the Golden Jubilee of the publication in 1952 of Ages in Chaos by Dr Immanuel Velikovsky and acknowledges the Golden Jubilee of the publication in the same year of Professor W F Libby's work on radiocarbon dating.

It will bring together both academics and laymen who have contributed to, or have an interest in, the controversy resulting from Velikovsky's claim that the chronology of the ancient world is hundreds of years shorter than hitherto thought. Also attending will be those who, while agreeing that a shortening of chronology is necessary, consider that the one proposed by Velikovsky is untenable in one respect or another.

Velikovsky was the first person in recent times to suggest that the dates ascribed to Egyptian New Kingdom dynasties were incorrect and that they should be dated centuries later. Once this is done new and intriguing connections can be made between the Old Testament record and Egyptian history and another advantage of this down-dating is to remove enigmatic dark ages from many of the cultures that were in contact with Egypt. Although his revision of chronology has not been generally accepted, this approach has been very productive and stimulating for other researchers and some have subsequently gone on to propose alternative lowered chronologies.


Papers and Contributors

Saturday 14th September 2002
  • Introduction, Prof. Trevor Palmer
  • Scientific Dating Problems, David Salkeld
  • Evidence for Shortening Egyptian History, Bob Porter
  • The Historical Evidence in the el-Amarna Letters, J Eric Aitchison
  • Testing Time, David Rohl
  • The Lion Gate at Mycenae, plus Ramesses II and Archaic Greek Sculpture, Prof. Lewis M Greenberg
  • Scientific Foundations of Ancient Near Eastern Chronologies, Charles Ginenthal


Sunday 15th September 2002

  • Finding The Limits of Chronological Revision, Dr John J Bimson
  • Stratigraphy and Radically Shortened Chronologies, Prof. Gunnar Heinsohn
  • Velikovsky, Glasgow and Heinsohn Combined, Emmet Sweeney
  • AD Ages in Chaos: A Russian Point of View, Dr Eugen Gabowitsch
  • Implications for Chronology if Certain 'Historical' Characters are Mythological, Ev Cochrane

After each speaker, time will be allocated for discussion.
Information about each contributor can be found below.


Attendance

  • The conference is open to non-members of the SIS on a daily basis and costs given below include attendance morning and afternoon refreshments plus lunch. The latest booking date for non-members is 31st July.

  • SIS Members may attend on a daily, or residential basis at reduced costs and 31st August is the deadline for receipt of payment for day attendance only bookings. For bookings requiring accommodation, 31st July is the deadline for receipt of payment.

    Details on joining the SIS can be found here.


Costs

  • Payment in Sterling should be drawn on a bank in the UK
  • Payment in Dollars should be drawn on a bank in the USA.

Day's Attendance Sterling Dollar
Saturday or Sunday £51.00 $78.00
Both Saturday and Sunday £90.00 $137.00

Booking

To book for either or both days, send your remittance to the address below. If booking for one day only please be sure to state which day you want to attend. Bookings in writing only please, to:
SIS Conference 2002
10 Witley Green
Darley Heights
Stopsley
Beds LU2 8TR


About the Contributors

  • J Eric Aitchison is a long-standing Australian member and contributor to the SIS. His interest in Velikovsky began in 1967. He is now working on his theory that the Habiru were the Assyrians under Tiglath Pileser III and Sargon II.
  • Dr John J Bimson has been a member of and contributor to SIS since its earliest days. He is the author of Redating the Exodus and Conquest, based on his PhD research into the archaeological setting of the Israelite entry into Canaan.
  • Ev Cochrane, an American teacher of cultural anthropology, is the author of Martian Metamorphoses: The Planet Mars in Ancient Myth and Religion and The Many Faces of Venus and has published many articles on mythology and archaeoastronomy.
  • Dr Eugen Gabowitsch works at a nuclear research centre and is a leading proponent in Germany of revised AD chronology.
  • Charles Ginenthal is the author of Carl Sagan and Immanuel Velikovsky, Stephen Jay Gould and Immanuel Velikovsky and The Extinction of the Mammoth and has contributed articles to Aeon. He is Editor-in-Chief of The Velikovskian and is currently working on the scientific basis of chronology.
  • Prof. Lewis M Greenberg is Professor of Ancient and Oriental Art history at the Moore College of Art & Design in Philadelphia. He was Associated Editor of the journal Pensee, and Editor-in-Chief of Kronos for 12 years; he contributed material to both publications as well as to Science, Astronomy, Biblical Archaeology Review, SIS Review and Kronos.
  • Prof. Gunnar Heinsohn's publication list exceeds more than 400 titles, including contributions to SIS and the special SIS edition, Ghost Empires of the Past -- Did the Sumerians ever really Exist? Since 1984 he has been a tenured Professor at the Universität Bremen where he is now director of the Raphael-Lemkin-Institut für Xenophobie und Genozidforschung.
  • Prof. Trevor Palmer is Professor of Life Sciences and Senior Dean at the Nottingham Trent University. He is the author of Controversy: Catastrophism and Evolution - The Ongoing Debate and numerous articles in SIS publications on evolution and catastrophism. He has been a member of SIS Council since 1986 and is currently ex-officio Chairman.
  • Bob Porter has an M.Sc. in engineering, was for some time a member of the SIS editorial team, and presently contributes a regular feature on "Recent Developments in Near Eastern Archaeology" to C&C Review.
  • David Rohl is the author of A Test of Time and Legend and is the Chairman of the Institute for the Study of Interdisciplinary Sciences, and Archaeology Correspondent for The Express newspaper. His initial work on a revision of chronology, co-authored with Peter James, first appeared in SIS publications.
  • David Salkeld holds a B.Sc. in physics from Bristol University. Following a full career as an electrical engineering officer in the Royal Air Force, he spent 13 years as a systems engineer with British Aerospace. He is a former Treasurer and Chairman of the SIS and keen researcher into biblical history.
  • Emmet Sweeney has an M.A. in Early Modern History and teaches in London. He is a member of the SIS council and is the author of several books on chronological revisions, including The Genesis of Israel and Egypt, The Pyramid Age, The Neo-Assyrians and Persians, Ramessides, Medes and Persians and The Lost History of Ireland. His latest book is Arthur and Stonehenge (Britain's Lost History).

See also


46 posted on 09/05/2002 2:53:05 AM PDT by medved
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To: Little Bill
"Years ago I read a book called "Plagues and Peoples". one of the things that the author pointed out was that a healthy population recovers from a plague, stuff like food, warm clothing, and enought fuel contributes to the health of a population."

Yup. I read (somewhere, I think in the 1491 article) last night that greater than 50% of the worlds food supply today is dependent on plant crops that originated in the Americas. The discovery of the Americas caused a population explosion in Europe.

47 posted on 09/05/2002 5:27:05 AM PDT by blam
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To: Little Bill
"Could be right the ejecta path ended up in SE Asia Minor and Thera is North East of Crete."

The plume from Thera would need to be 30 miles high to have been seen in Egypt. The recent Pinatubo(sp) volcano in the Phillipines was 26 miles high. Ejecta from the 1628BC Thera explosion has been confirmed to have covered Egypt.

48 posted on 09/05/2002 5:31:56 AM PDT by blam
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To: altair
"That was an interesting link. Thanks."

Check out Mike Baillie's book, Exodus To Arthur, if you're really interested.

49 posted on 09/05/2002 5:39:08 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam
The discovery of the Americas caused a population explosion in Europe.

The first effect was to enlarge the diet. The main effect; was American Food could feed a family on a small area of ground, took a couple of hundred years to get around. Kinda brings us up to the End of the Little Ice Age.

50 posted on 09/05/2002 5:42:35 AM PDT by Little Bill
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