Teacher's Anti-Bush Pin Stirs Controversy

Fox News ^ | 3/04/2003 | Carol McKinley and Liza Porteus

[ChuckHam]

CONIFER, Colo. — As talk of war escalates, school boards across the country are grappling with the First Amendment: from first graders making peace posters to whether teachers can wear anti-war pins.

Some parents in Conifer, Colo., are fuming that a sixth-grade teacher wore a pin that said, "Not My President, Not My War," on a class trip.

[ChuckHam]

And the liberal indoctrination of our kids in public schools continues.

[yonif]

Indeed.

[Argus]

Teacher should be given a new pin: "Not my job."

[SouthernFreebird]

Yeah, put a Confederate flag pin on that kid and see where his right to free expression get him......suspended.

[princess leah]

Meanwhile in Christian schools "We pledge allegiance to the Christian FLag and to our Savior, for whose kingdom it stands...One Savior, crucified, risen and coming again, with life and liberty to ALL who believe" I am SO GLAD my kids are enrolled in a Christian School! PRAYING FOR VOUCHERS!

[TC Rider]

"teachers have the same First Amendment rights as all Americans,"

How far would a student have gotten with a "Rush Limbaugh" button? or a Bush button for that matter.

Heaven help us if a youth showed up with a Confederate Flag pin.

[Frank_Discussion]

"On a more practical level, expressing such contempt for the presidency isn't exactly conducive to teaching good citizenship."

Now, THAT is a very good and succinct way to put it. It may be obvious to some, but not to others.

If this teacher doesn't like President Bush, that's fine. But he IS her president. She gets her vote, but as an American, she is obliged to accept him as the head of state.

Even at his worst, I acknowledged Clinton as my president. But I voted him out as soon as I was able! Simple citizenship.

[Puppage]

LOL!!!

[Robert_Paulson2]

"a school district's responsibility to stay neutral?"

---

Where in state or federal law does it insist that a school district should stay neutral?

[Wondervixen]

"Not Her President...Not Her War...Not Her Job."

[PetroniDE]

The solution is very simple. Gather ALL the parents from that kids class, and have as many of the kids as possible (hopefully ALL) wear the U.S. Flag pins in the classroom.

[PetroniDE]

"Not Her President...Not Her War...Not Her Job."

Not her fault that people in Florida can't figure out how to punch holes in a piece of paper !!! How about having all the kids wear shirts with the cry-baby democratic seal.

[GiveEmDubya]

You wanna talk "liberal indoctrination" in our schools? Try this, in a Catholic High school:

* Every day, I have teachers calling Bush a moron, stupid, President-select, war/oilmonger, etc. and indirectly insult everyone who doesn't consider themself a liberal or worse.

* A good chunk of students are not just liberals, but full-fledged communists. In Spanish class, two kids are doing a Spanish project on Che Guevara and his "positive" contributions.

* Our class president (I now shudder to think I once held that office) goes around spouting his ULTRAliberal lies, and since he's so nice, everyone believes him.

I am becoming more and more outnumbered by the commies. Tomorrow, I have to debate the above-mentioned dolt about Iraq in history class. Should be fun...any ideas on how to hammer the points across?

[KC_Conspirator]

Yeah, put a Confederate flag pin on that kid and see where his right to free expression get him......suspended.

That is exactly right. Free expression my arse.

[BossLady]

Why is it OK for a teacher to wear these kinds of pins, ect but the moment a child wears a T-shirt or a pin someone on the staff doesn't like, the kid gets the boot? You can't have it both ways!

[stands2reason]

I'd suggest you post your reply as a separate thread; you should get a lot of help. Title it something like: Student needs help in Iraq debate---and ping me to it--I'll ping Txbec for her homeschool teachers' pinglist.

[harrym]

You know, I am very sad to see all this vituperative and venomous behaviour on both sides of this issue. It reminds me too much of how things were in our country in 1964-70 when I was going back and forth from the States to Southeast Asia and watching everything get out of hand to the point where there remained no common ground left for anyone, no matter what their views or politics were. We are still suffering from the animosity and hate that period built in our nation. On any issue that has come up in the last 30 years we have been divided by the same old chasm. I had hoped that after a while all us old f...rts would have died off and let the young folks come to terms from left and right so that there could be some sort of unanimity of spirit in the land. Alas, not to be! We are repeating the mistakes of the past. We are enemies not adversaries. They are completely wrong and we are completely right. God is on our side (they only think he's on theirs). The states are either red or blue and they are evenly (and eternally) divided. I don't know how to fix any of this, it just makes me sad.

[the_Watchman]

Make direct comparisons to Hitler. Both murdered their own citizens. Both showed a predilection to spilling over their own borders and subjugating their neighbors.

Return to the mantras:

(1)Should we have negotiated with Hitler? Oh yeah, Chamberlain tried that!

(2)12 years of failed inspections. Powell correctly says that the inspectors are NOT detectives. They are supposed to inspect in order to verify that a disarmament plan, submitted by the "former" belligerent, has been followed. Blix says he doesn't even have a plan in hand! [It's not clear to me what Blix thinks he's inspecting under the circumstances!]

[Station 51]

Yeah, put a Confederate flag pin on that kid and see where his right to free expression get him......suspended

Should a Teacher have the right to wear a Confederate Flag pin?

[Garden Island]

Ask him if he supported the Clintoon bombs over Iraq on the eve of his impeachment for lying under oath.
Ask if the World would have better off if Churchill could have persuaded the world leaders to stop Hitler 5 years earlier.

[Who dat?]

In Spanish class, two kids are doing a Spanish project on Che Guevara and his "positive" contributions.

It’s probably not worthwhile right now, but there’s a book called “Shadow Warrior” by Felix Rodriguez that you might find interesting some time. He was supposedly the last American that saw Guevara right before he was killed. It tends to portray Che Guevara as a bumbling, cowardly, liar-type. Once you read it you’ll get a good chuckle during pro-Guevara presentations as you remember the stories you read about him versus whatever claims the presenters are making. FWIW.

[colorado tanker]

You can't have it both ways!

The other piece of this story is that this is the same school district that Columbine was in. Columbine invited students to make creative wall tiles expressing their feelings about the shootings, which were to be mounted on a wall. ANY tile with any kind of religious expression was censored and not mounted. The school claimed a tile with a cross in it would be "disruptive."

In the courts the district argued that First Amendment rights are limited in schools, which is what the law says. But for the district to hide behind the First Amendment when this controversy first started was gross hypocrisy and revealed their agenda.

[huskerone]

This is my school district I am sad to say. This is also
the school district of Columbine High School.

If my 2 boys weren't so close to leaving the district (junior and sophmore in High School) I would home school them.

[biblewonk]

And the liberal indoctrination of our kids in public schools continues.

Or maybe it's just a practical example of the 1st ammendment.

[ChuckHam]

Political conversation has no place in our schools. I don't send my child to school to learn anything but reading, writing, etc. When I retire from the military I plan on running for the school board in this area and that's going to be the plank I run on.

[Just another Joe]

"They don't shed them (rights) at the schoolhouse gate," said First Amendment attorney Steve Zansbert. "However, courts have recognized that school districts can impose restrictions on teachers' speech rights within the classroom as long as they're reasonable related to legitimate teaching interests."

Then -
#1 - Children don't have rights, even though they are citizens.
Or
#2 - Why do childrens' rights stop at the door?

[Prysson]

This is why no child of mine will evry set foot in public school.

[Ajnin]

The war for oil myth:

If the war is all about oil why didn't the 1st Bush administration seize all the oil fields? If it's all about oil why doesn't GWB just cut a deal with Saddam instead of lose money by going to war. Even if we did go to war for oil, so what? Oil is the life blood of the world's economy. The anti-war weenies sure do love to reap the benefits of our oil interests don't they? Then, they hypocritically bash the President for defending our oil interests.

[HighWheeler]

Ask him about Sodom gassing his own people, to the tune of 1.5 million of 'em.

Ask him about Sodom lobbing Scuds to Israel in the '91 war.

Ask him if the people of Iraq should enjoy a democracy like you do, or should they continue to be taken out and killed for not worshipping Sodom?

Ask him what he would think of the Governor of an adjoining state to yours, or Canada, or Mexico, who had killed 1.5 million of his own residents, by gassing them, for political purposes.

Ask him if he trusts Sodom's word more that Bush's and what proof does he have to substantiate that? Sodom has said he in in compliance with the U.N resolution, but the U.N. agrees with Bush that he has violated 17 resolutions.

When he brings up "it's all about oil", ask him to prove it. Let him keep talking and you keep on asking him to clarify his point. Keep asking him Why would they do that?" or "How would that work?" or "How would that happen?" After he has spent himself while you force him to detail his position, then ask him: Who would gain? (Bush oil guys would only gain if imported oil were restricted.) Who would own the oil, the U.S. or some companies in the U.S.? How would you determine which companies got to keep the oil? Why didn't we take the oil in '91, why are we concerned with following the U.N resolutions as stated, especially if keeping the oil is not in the resolution?

Ask him how it is that he can think Sodom doesn't have any WMD, yet even Sodom is threatening to use WMD if he is attacked?


These chuckleheads are like shooting fish in a barrel, they are only anti-freedom, anti-Bush, anti-liberty, anti-peace, anti-national security, and cowards. Tell him that you are glad he wasn't here in 1776 to fight against the tyranny of King George, and yet he can still enjoy the freedom that the Patriots bestowed upon him.

Good Luck

[steplock]

FREEP 'EM

Jefferson County Education Association, an arm of the National Education Association

1050 Wadsworth Blvd.
Lakewood, CO 80215
phone:303-232-6405
fax:303-238-2215

email: jcea@nea.org

[Renegade]

Remind him that " W" was flying a jet fighter while the Goron was flying a typewriter ( and had an unloaded rifle at his side ) .
Also as stated in another thread, George " W" is the only president to have an MBA.

[steplock]

Steve Zansbert ??? According to Google, there is no such NAME ! Nothing for ZANSBERT

Something is not kosher here... FOX did not check sources etc? They did not catch this obvious fraud?

Is GOOGLE in on a conspiracy?

"They don't shed them (rights) at the schoolhouse gate," said First Amendment attorney Steve Zansbert. "However, courts have recognized that school districts can impose restrictions on teachers' speech rights within the classroom as long as they're reasonable related to legitimate teaching interests."

[The_Media_never_lie]

Teacher should be given a new pin: "Not my job."

How would she feel if the students came to the field trip with pins stating "She's not my teacher!"?

[KC_for_Freedom]

The states are either red or blue and they are evenly (and eternally) divided. I don't know how to fix any of this, it just makes me sad.

It makes me sad too, but like peggy noonan said in her recent column, the democrats are in trouble and cannot afford to allow a generation to grow up without political brainwashing.

The solution to our common problem is to have schools and jobs immediately end all political activity on campus and at work. We need to pull together as a country, our troops deserve it. While we are allowed to debate and disagree, we must move it out of the school and workplace. A new generation of students should be taught to hold their beliefs until they leave school. It should not be possible to determine the politics of a student or teacher.

My son was exposed to liberal bias in his school and felt obligated to defend his conservative position. Now the teacher and classmates (who were opposed to his position almost completely) had to find a way to grade his work without letting political disagreements stand in the way. Can the teacher in this article do the same when she finds she has conservative kids in her class? I doubt it.

BTW, I was a HS teacher for ten years and the class never knew my politics from anything I said in class. they knew my religion when I took off for Jewish holidays. (They did not need to know that either.)

[GiveEmDubya]

Sorry it's taken me a while to get back to the thread.

I'll make a new thread as soon as I can.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

So the kid can wear a T-shirt that says, "Anti-War advocates are traitors." to school and nobody will tell him to remove it?

[fnord]

"Even if your right is, in fact, protected, is it appropriate in your role as a professional educator to do that?"

And who is protecting that right? hmmmmm?? the very soldiers and President you hold cheap?

[BossLady]

I remember that story. If First Amendment Rights are 'limited' in schools, WHO is limited and WHAT are the limitations exactly??? (rheotorical question)

Jeez....this stuff makes me crazy.... :o

[serinde]

"Children don't have rights, even though they are citizens."

Well, technically, that's right, at least the way the courts have been working the last few years.

Until children are old enough to vote - and have an impact on politicians - they can safely be ignored or degraded (think random drug testing, etc).

In fact, the legal term is "the disability of being minor," which sums up the situtation fairly well.

[11th_VA]

Here's a link to the Conifer County Schools. But it looks like they took "West Jefferson Middle School" off the web site. I wonder why.

[demnomo]

The child's mom should send her son to school wearing a t-shirt that has photos of the WTC towers in flames, gassed Iraqi Kurds and a choice quote from one of President Bushes' excellent speeches printed underneath. (It would be good to have President Bushes' unflinching face super-imposed over the pictures.) That ought to give that teacher (ie: anti-American, Bush-hating, Clinton-adoring leftist indoctrinator) pause.

Hey, the kid is entitled to his rights under the 1st Amendment.

[colorado tanker]

WHAT are the limitations exactly???

We know the answer to that: all conservative opinions and religious expression is prohibited and all liberal opinions and sexual expression is allowed. :)

[k2blader]

The teacher who started the controversy in Colorado, horrified she caused such a fuss, has voluntarily taken off her anti-Bush pin.

She should be horrified at the sheer stupidity of her assumption it wouldn't cause a fuss. Not that I believe she didn't want to cause one in the first place.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Nice to see Fox get on the story five days after it hit the wires: Anti-Bush sentiment a hot-button issue

Drop principal Jean Kelley a line at: jkelley@jeffco.k12.co.us

[biblewonk]

Political conversation has no place in our schools. I don't send my child to school to learn anything but reading, writing, etc. When I retire from the military I plan on running for the school board in this area and that's going to be the plank I run on.

In 5th grade my teacher said you should drive 55 because it was safer and uses less gas. Sorry but that's political as it would be today to say ANYTHING about SUV's in school. You can't seriously think you or anyone else can remove "political conversation" or "religious conversation" from schools. That's why so many of us homeschool.

[mewzilla]

Here's the interesting thing about this story that I heard on the Mike Gallagher show last week. Gallagher was talking to one of the parents involved, and he asked the woman for the teacher's name. The woman couldn't provide it to Mike because she had been threatened with a lawsuit by the teacher's lawyer. So this teacher, who proudly goes around in public with this button, is too gutless to want her name made public. So much for principle, eh?

[newgeezer]

Withholding information from the hyper-emotional raving blowhard Mike Gallagher is almost certainly a wise choice no matter what's going on, especially after one has made the mistake of talking to him.

You can always tell when a liberal wants to portray the conservative side in a bad light; (s)he simply invites Mike Gallagher to "represent" us.

[mewzilla]

Leaving personalities aside for a moment, I still think it was pretty gutless of this teacher to sic a lawyer on a parent. If this teacher was so proud of her stand, why not be willing to attach her name to it? She can inflict her views on kids then refuses to accept responsibility for it. Gutless wonder.

[newgeezer]

Oh, certainly. No disagreement there! :-)

[An.American.Expatriate]

I get so sick of this.

The First Amendement does NOT grant a right to anything! It is a prohibition to CONGRESS. The only party that can ever violate the First Amendment is the CONGRESS if and when they pass a law which in some way limits the freedom of religion, speech, assembly, the press etc...

On some other First Amendment related threads, it is contended that the 14th Amendment somehow makes this prohibition to CONGRESS "Universal". It doesn't. If anything, it limits the States from also making such laws. It does not apply to any other party except the LEGISLATURE!