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The Pleistocene Extinction
atlantisquest ^

Posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer

PALEONTOLOGICAL TESTIMONY

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The Pleistocene Extinction

Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individuals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).

Moreover, there is evidence of large geological changes which took place, such as massive volcanism, numerous earthquakes, tidal waves, to say nothing of the glacial melting which raised sea-levels several hundred feet worldwide. It's beginning to look like the Pleistocene Epoch didn't tippy-toe out silently, but rather ended with a large roar. Geologists and Paleontologists have an innate distaste for catastrophism, and that's understandable. Catastrophists, who in the beginning were identifying every strata of sediment with a worldwide flood, layer upon layer, almost totally discredited the field of geology--and uniformitarianism pulled the science out of the fire. But now, scientists in both fields are gradually realizing that both catastrophism and uniformitarianism (or gradualism) are at work in nature, and that everything can't be explained using one or the other alone (Gould, 1975). One of the indicators of the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both hemispheres: Canada and Alaska in the western, and Northern Russian and Siberia in the eastern.

THE AMERICAN REMAINS

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains. The remains he found were not human, but what he found was anything but evidence of gradualism or uniformitarianism. Instead he found miles of muck filled with the remains of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. Just north of Fairbanks, Hibbens and his associates watched as bulldozers pushed the half-melted muck into sluice boxes for the extraction of gold. Animal tusks and bones rolled up in front of the blades "like shavings before a giant plane". The carcasses were found in all attitudes of death, most of them "pulled apart by some unexplainable prehistoric catastrophic disturbance" (Hibben, 1946).

The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass (Sanderson, 1960). The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen. But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.

Paleontologist George G. Simpson considers the extinction of the Pleistocene horse in north America to be one of the most mysterious episodes in zoological history, admitting that in all honesty no one knows the answer. He also admits that this is only a part of the larger problem of the extinction of many other species in America at the same time (Simpson, 1961). The horse is merely the tip of the iceberg: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. They weren't wiped out because Alaska and Siberia were experiencing an Ice Age. "Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question," say leading Paleontologists (Martin & Guilday, 1967).

Woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, ground sloths, antelopes and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died at about the same time, roughly 12,000 years ago.

FROZEN ANIMALS IN SIBERIA

The picture in Siberia and northern Europe is no different. Just north of Siberia whole islands are formed of the bones of Pleistocene animals swept northward from the continent into the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean. It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!

And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).

Geologists are once more becoming divided on the issue of catastrophism. A few are breaking away from their hard stand of the past, and are at looking at the problem with more of an open mind. Mr. Harold P. Lippman seems to be objective when he admits that the magnitude of fossils and tusks encased in the Siberian permafrost present an "insuperable difficulty" to the theory of uniformitarianism, since no gradual process can result in the preservation of tens of thousands of tusks and whole individuals, "even if they died in winter" (Lippman, 1962). Especially when many of these individuals have undigested grasses and leaves in their belly.

Certain misguided workers have vainly suggested that man was the cause of all this death and destruction. In the first place, the remains of the animals out number the remains of man a million to one. There is no way the populations of man could have killed this many animals. Some Pleistocene bone sites obviously represent the efforts of Big Game Hunters: fire was sometimes used to drive a herd of animals over a cliff or into a bog to be slaughtered for food. In these instances, the hand of man is rather obvious. Prof. N. K. Vereschagin of the then Soviet Union states bluntly: "The accumulation of mammoth bones and carcasses of mammoth, rhinoceros, and bison found in frozen ground in Indigirka, Lolyma, and Novosibirsk bear no traces of hunting of primitive man" (Vereschagin, 1967).

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".

Watching them cut the huge block of muck filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolly mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in his stomach!

Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet right at the end of the Pleistocene.

Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity (see my Archeology page: Tiahuanacu) and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).

More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).

So it seems we have the end of the Ice Age, the Pleistocene extinction, the end of the Upper Paleolithic (Magdalenian, Perigordian and all others), and the close of the "reign of the gods" in Manetho, all on roughly the same date - 10,000 B.C. It appears to me that the evidence, when all of it is taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe, from whatever cause, which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch (roughly 10,000 B.C.) And this is about the date Plato gives for the sinking of Atlantis.

TOP of Page Bibliography

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969. Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961. Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977. Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946. Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979. Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969. Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967. Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, January 16, 1960. Simpson, George G., "Horses," New York, 1961. Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, J., editors), New Haven, 1967.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; extinction; florida; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; iceage; paleontology; pleistocene; verobeach; veroman
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To: ckilmer
And how long will it be until some liberal bastion of higher learning gets a million dollar grant to prove that it was caused by second hand cigarette smoke??
101 posted on 07/27/2003 8:22:03 AM PDT by Spok
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Comment #102 Removed by Moderator

To: headsonpikes
Velikovsky wrote a whole book on this subject in 1955 and doesn't get even one word of mention in this article. Read Earth in Upheaval (if you can find a copy- it took me 6 months to find a used copy). He covers everything in this article and more. From the article:

"Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969).

From Velikovsky (Earth in Upheaval, p151):

" On the Atlantic coast of Florida, at Vero in the Indian River region, in 1915 and 1916, human remains were found in association with the bones of Ice Age (pleistocene) animals, many of which either became extinct, like the saber-toothed tiger, or have disappeared from the Americas, like the camel.

The find caused immediate excitement amoung geologists and anthropologists. Beside the human bones pottery was found, as well as bone implememnts and worked stone. Ales Hrdlicka, of the Smithsonian Institution of Washington, D.C., a renowned anthropologist (who generally opposed the view that man existed in America in the Ice Age), wrote that the "advanced state of culture, such as that shown by the pottery, bone implements, and worked stone brought from a considerable distance, implies a numerous population spread over large areas, acquainted thoroughly with fire, with cooking food, and with all the usual primitive arts"; the human remains and relics could not be of an intiquity "comparable with that of fossil remains with which they are associated." He also published the opinion of W.H. Holmes, head curator of the Department of Anthropology of the United States National Museum, who investigated the pottery obtained by Hrdlicka from Vero. These were bowls "such as were in common use amoung the Indian tribes of Florida." When compared with vessels from Florida earth mounds, "no significant distinction can be made; in material, thickness of walls, finish of rim, surface finish, color, state of preservation, and size and shape," the vessels "are identical." There thus appears " not the least ground in the evidence of the specimens themselves for the assumption that the Vero pottery pertains to any other people than the mound-building Indian tribes of Florida of the pre-Columbian time."

But the bones of the man and his artifacts (pottery) were found amoung the extinct animals. The discoverer of the Vero deposits, E.H. Sellards, state geologist of Florida and a very capable paleontologist, wrote in the debate that ensued: "That the human bones are fossils normal to this stratum and contemporaneous with the associated vertibrates is determined by their place in the formation, their manner of occurance, their intimate relation to the bones of other animals, and the degree of mineralization of the bones." This "degree of mineralization of the human bones is identical with that of the associated bones of the other animals." In his view the evidence obtained " affords proof that man reached America at an early date and was present on the continent in association with a Pleistocene (Ice Age) fauna." Anthropologists of the Hrdlicka school would not accept this, claiming a late arrival of man on the American continent, and the presence of pottery was in their view proof of a late date for the human bones. The human sculls, though fossilized, did not differ from the skulls of the Indians today.

In 1923-29, thirty-three miles north of Vero, in Melbourne, Florida, another such association of human remains and extinct animals was found, "a remarkably rich assemblage of animal bones, many of which represent species which became extinct at or after the close of the Pleistocene (Ice Age) epoch." The discoverer, J.W. Gidley, of the United States National Museum, established unequivocally that in Melbourne - as in Vero- the human bones were of the same stratum and in the same state of fossilization as the bones of the extinct animals. And again human artifacts were found with the bones. The "projectile points, awls, and pins" found with the human bones at Melbourne as well as at Vero are of the same workmanship as those unearthed in early Indian sites, two thousand of which are known in the area.

All these and other considerations of an anthropological as well as geological nature, being summed up, prove in the opinion of I. Rouse, a recent analyst of the much-debated fossils of Florida, that "the Vero and Melbourne man should have been in existance between 2000 B.C. and the year zero A.D." This does not solve the problem of the association of extinct animals and man who lived between two and four thousand years ago, in the second and first millennia before the present era.

There is no proper way out of this dillemma, other than the assumption that now extinct animals still existed in historical times and that the catastrophe which overwhelmed man and animals and annihilated numerous species occured in the second or first millennium before the present era.

The geologists are right: the human remains and artifacts of Vero and Melbourne in Florida are of the same age as the fossils of the extinct animals.

The anthropologists are equally right: the human remains and artifacts are of the second or first millennium before the present era.

What follows? It follows that the extinct animals belonged to the recent past. It follows also that some paroxysm of nature heaped together these assemblages; the same paroxysm of nature may have destroyed numerous species so that they became extinct. "

103 posted on 07/27/2003 8:30:43 AM PDT by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: All
Now it's time for a shameless plug! I am in the early stages of designing an exhibit of fossils to be shown at the Old County Courthouse Museum in Santa Ana, California starting in early February. It will consist of fossils uncovered during the building of the Eastern Transportation Corridor. It will include earlier Cretaceous samples such as a dinosaur called the Hadrasaur, and many newer ones like whales, Megladon sharks, mammoths, mastodons, American lions, Desmostylus (a kind of early hippo), and various plants. Just about very period from 100 million years ago through the ice age will be represented. If you live in Southern California please come see it!
104 posted on 07/27/2003 8:36:20 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: the-ironically-named-proverbs2
See RightWhale's #65.

One does not have to accept Velikovsky's hypotheses to be intrigued by his data base. Evidence is overwhelming that catastrophic events have happened relatively recently, and more can be expected in the not distant future.

The Uniformitarians are dead dead dead, but the PEers never acknowledge Velikovsky's work - too embarrassing, I guess. ;^)
105 posted on 07/27/2003 8:51:56 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: SoCal Pubbie
Will do!
106 posted on 07/27/2003 8:52:44 AM PDT by null and void
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To: headsonpikes
The interesting thing about the Florida evidence is that it ties historically modern man with these events and fossils of supposedly 10,000 to 12,000 years ago. I actually saw a show recently on the Discovery channel (IIRC) that actually dated the extinction of the saber toothed tiger as recently as 2000 years ago in North America.

A link that I googled up on the human fossils in Florida: http://www.rootsweb.com/~flindian/veroman.htm

FYI, in case you've never read it, Velikovski's Earth in Upheaval is not about theory- it's a book full of physical evidence and footnotes. I was amazed at the amount of evidence he compiled that I had never even heard of. I did a lot of on-line searching to check the existence of some of it (since everyone says he's a crackpot) and was able to corroborate much of it (the existence of it at least- not necessarily the dating).

Embarrasing indeed.

107 posted on 07/27/2003 9:22:25 AM PDT by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: the-ironically-named-proverbs2
I read Velikovsky 35-40 years ago. Ages in Chaos, Worlds in Collision, and Earth in Upheaval are each intriguing. His vivid descriptions of these bone and carcass masses convinced me that catastrophic events on a planetary scale did, indeed, occur within historical memory, however much fragmented and mythologized.

His accounts of comets and planets swerving around like bump-a-cars I found somewhat less compelling.

I've always enjoyed autodidactic outsiders...if one can avoid agreeing with their conclusions, they usually present at least a fresh perspective on subjects normally rigidly disciplined by an Establishment of some kind.

Oswald Spengler is another iconoclast worth reading, if you can avoid being ensnared by his goofy, romantic German metaphysics.

Spengler's perspective on the Culture that produced Mohammad and Islam is well worth reading.
108 posted on 07/27/2003 10:13:40 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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Comment #109 Removed by Moderator

To: Atlantin
"...with Mantle-type mineralogy...formation appears to take place at mantle depths."

Well, the diamonds therein are formed from subducted carbon, hundreds of kilometers deep, apparently.

And what physics would drive these extraordinary kimberlitic events, given an expanding earth?

'Chaotically-emplaced breccia' hardly captures the unique nature of these mini-volcanos.
110 posted on 07/27/2003 7:23:23 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Battle Axe
A near miss with a very large comet or planet like object would answer a lot of questions. Huge tides causing worldwide tsunamis, shifting of Earth's axis as well as it's solar orbit, tremendous volcanic activity spewing toxins and smoke into the sky obliterating the sun and causing "nuclear winter". If this object was accompanied by large asteriods with one or two hitting the earth, it explains quite a bit.
111 posted on 07/27/2003 7:47:45 PM PDT by Bob J (Freerepublic.net...where it's always a happening....)
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: Battle Axe
Consider a planet size body at the moon's distance. It could create tidal actions several hundred feet high. As the earth rotated, these tides and subsequent tsunamis would repeat on roughly a 24 hour basis for as long as it's proximity created gravitational forces.

As far as whether it is on a solar rotation...who knows. It is possible for a planet with an extremely large ellipse and long rotational cycle (say 50-100k years) to appear to astronomers as an object outside our SS speeding away from earth. In that case, making a close encounter with earth on it's loop back around the sun would be stricly coincidental.

As far as seaweed and clamshells, those are constituents of the tidal plane and I would expect them to be deposited within several thousand feet of the seashore or less. Even under this theory of repeated tidal tsumnamis caused by the near miss of a planet, the entire tidal cycle would take 24 hours to complete. If we assume (for no particular reason) a 200 foot difference between normal and high tide, that would amount to about 8 feet per hour. Pretty significant but no flash floods. That would come when the rising tide breached natural terrain barriers and flowed in all at once to lower elevation areas.

It is interesting to note some of the similarities with the flood theory. I read a theory that at one time the Mediterranean (and maybe the Black and Baltic Seas) were shall fresh water lakes and some cataclysm causing sea levels to rise several hundred feet overflowed the natural barrier that existed between what is today the Rock of Gibralter and Morroco, flooding them with sea water and creating a huge opening that only widened as the sea level dropped.
113 posted on 07/27/2003 8:49:01 PM PDT by Bob J (Freerepublic.net...where it's always a happening....)
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Comment #114 Removed by Moderator

To: ckilmer; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; lizma; shamusotoole
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

115 posted on 07/27/2003 10:04:16 PM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: djf
I never understood how those guys always ran on new tires. Mine have all shown frightful weathering in 5 years or so.

BTW, shoot for radiators and then fuel tanks. Use enough gun and enough ammunition.
116 posted on 07/27/2003 10:06:55 PM PDT by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: farmfriend
Please add me to your ping list.
Thank you in advance.
117 posted on 07/27/2003 10:23:00 PM PDT by FreeLibertarian (You live and learn. Or you don't live long.)
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To: Atlantin
You do know that silane is pyrophoric, don't you?
118 posted on 07/27/2003 10:27:15 PM PDT by null and void
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To: FreeLibertarian
Consider yourself added. Thank you.
119 posted on 07/28/2003 12:07:41 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: Atlantin
An extremely intriguing hypothesis! I'm in no position to flatly contradict you - I will consult with a couple of my geologist pals. ;^)
120 posted on 07/28/2003 5:28:42 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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