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The Pleistocene Extinction
atlantisquest ^

Posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer

PALEONTOLOGICAL TESTIMONY

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The Pleistocene Extinction

Paleontologists the world over know that something catastrophic happened to the large mammals roaming the world during the Pleistocene Epoch. Woolly mammoths, mastodons, toxodons, sabre-toothed tigers, woolly rhinos, giant ground sloths, and many other large Pleistocene animals are simply no longer with us. In fact, well over 200 species of animals (involving millions of individuals) totally disappeared at the end of the Pleistocene some 10,000-12,000 years ago in what is known to Paleontologists as the Pleistocene Extinction (Click for table).

Moreover, there is evidence of large geological changes which took place, such as massive volcanism, numerous earthquakes, tidal waves, to say nothing of the glacial melting which raised sea-levels several hundred feet worldwide. It's beginning to look like the Pleistocene Epoch didn't tippy-toe out silently, but rather ended with a large roar. Geologists and Paleontologists have an innate distaste for catastrophism, and that's understandable. Catastrophists, who in the beginning were identifying every strata of sediment with a worldwide flood, layer upon layer, almost totally discredited the field of geology--and uniformitarianism pulled the science out of the fire. But now, scientists in both fields are gradually realizing that both catastrophism and uniformitarianism (or gradualism) are at work in nature, and that everything can't be explained using one or the other alone (Gould, 1975). One of the indicators of the end of the Pleistocene 12,000 years ago is the huge numbers of frozen carcasses in both hemispheres: Canada and Alaska in the western, and Northern Russian and Siberia in the eastern.

THE AMERICAN REMAINS

Back in middle 1940s Dr. Frank C. Hibben, Prof. of Archeology at the University of New Mexico mounted an expedition to Alaska to look for human remains. The remains he found were not human, but what he found was anything but evidence of gradualism or uniformitarianism. Instead he found miles of muck filled with the remains of mammoth, mastodon, several kinds of bison, horses, wolves, bears and lions. Just north of Fairbanks, Hibbens and his associates watched as bulldozers pushed the half-melted muck into sluice boxes for the extraction of gold. Animal tusks and bones rolled up in front of the blades "like shavings before a giant plane". The carcasses were found in all attitudes of death, most of them "pulled apart by some unexplainable prehistoric catastrophic disturbance" (Hibben, 1946).

The evidence of the violence of nature combined with the stench of rotting carcasses was staggering. The ice fields containing these remains stretched for hundred of miles in every direction (Hibben, 1946). Trees and animals, layers of peat and mosses, twisted and mangled together like some giant mixer had jumbled them some 10,000 years ago, and then froze them into a solid mass (Sanderson, 1960). The evidence immediately suggests an enormous tidal wave which raged over the land, tumbling animals and vegetation within its mass, which was then quick-frozen. But the extinction is not limited to the Arctic.

Paleontologist George G. Simpson considers the extinction of the Pleistocene horse in north America to be one of the most mysterious episodes in zoological history, admitting that in all honesty no one knows the answer. He also admits that this is only a part of the larger problem of the extinction of many other species in America at the same time (Simpson, 1961). The horse is merely the tip of the iceberg: giant tortoises living in the Caribbean Sea, the giant sloth, the sabre-toothed tiger, the glyptodont and toxodon. These were all tropical animals. They weren't wiped out because Alaska and Siberia were experiencing an Ice Age. "Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question," say leading Paleontologists (Martin & Guilday, 1967).

Woolly rhinoceros, giant armadillos, giant beavers, giant jaguars, ground sloths, antelopes and scores of other entire species were all totally wiped out at the end of the Pleistocene. Massive piles of mastodon and sabre-toothed tiger bones were discovered in Florida (Valentine, 1969), while mastodons, toxodons, giant sloths and other animals were found in Venesuala quick-frozen among the mountain glaciers (Berlitz, 1969). All died at about the same time, roughly 12,000 years ago.

FROZEN ANIMALS IN SIBERIA

The picture in Siberia and northern Europe is no different. Just north of Siberia whole islands are formed of the bones of Pleistocene animals swept northward from the continent into the frigid waters of the Arctic Ocean. It has been estimated that some ten million animals lay buried along the rivers of northern Siberia. Thousands of tusks formed a massive ivory trade for the master carvers of China, all from the remains of the frozen mammoths and mastodons of Siberia. The famous Beresovka mammoth first drew attention to the preserving properties of being quick-frozen when buttercups were found in its mouth. This was no gradual event--it had to be sudden!

And the event was worldwide. The mammoths of Siberia became extinct about the same time as the giant rhinoceros of Europe; the mastodons of Alaska and the bison of Siberia ended simultaneously. The same is true of the Asian elephants and the American camels. The cause of these extinctions must be common to both hemispheres. If the coming of glacial conditions was gradual, it would not have cause the extinctions, because the various animals could have simply migrated to where conditions were better. What is seen here is total surprise, and uncontrolled violence (Leonard, 1979).

Geologists are once more becoming divided on the issue of catastrophism. A few are breaking away from their hard stand of the past, and are at looking at the problem with more of an open mind. Mr. Harold P. Lippman seems to be objective when he admits that the magnitude of fossils and tusks encased in the Siberian permafrost present an "insuperable difficulty" to the theory of uniformitarianism, since no gradual process can result in the preservation of tens of thousands of tusks and whole individuals, "even if they died in winter" (Lippman, 1962). Especially when many of these individuals have undigested grasses and leaves in their belly.

Certain misguided workers have vainly suggested that man was the cause of all this death and destruction. In the first place, the remains of the animals out number the remains of man a million to one. There is no way the populations of man could have killed this many animals. Some Pleistocene bone sites obviously represent the efforts of Big Game Hunters: fire was sometimes used to drive a herd of animals over a cliff or into a bog to be slaughtered for food. In these instances, the hand of man is rather obvious. Prof. N. K. Vereschagin of the then Soviet Union states bluntly: "The accumulation of mammoth bones and carcasses of mammoth, rhinoceros, and bison found in frozen ground in Indigirka, Lolyma, and Novosibirsk bear no traces of hunting of primitive man" (Vereschagin, 1967).

UNIVERSAL DEATH IN 10,000 B.C.

Charles Darwin, the famous naturalist, was shocked by the extinction of species at the close of the Pleistocene. He writes: "The extinction of species has been involved in the most gratuitous mystery . . . no one can have marvelled more than I have at the extinction of species" (Darwin, 1859). He declared that for whole species to be destroyed in Southern Patagonia, in Brazil, in the mountain ranges of Peru, and in North America up to the Bering Straits, one must "shake the entire framework of the globe".

Watching them cut the huge block of muck filled ice containing the mammoth remains on the recent "Discovery" TV special helped me realize: if a woolly mammoth standing out in the grasslands of central Asia were to suddenly die, for whatever reason, his body would simply rot and the scavangers would pick the bones clean. The only way for this to have happened would be for the mammoth to either fall in a lake or pond and drown or be swept into this mass of vegetation, insects and mud by a massive wave of water. Under which of these two scenarios would such an animal be quick-frozen? His hair and skin were still intact--even the food in his stomach!

Even the Pleistocene geologist William R. Farrand of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory, who is opposed to catastrophism in any form, states: "Sudden death is indicated by the robust condition of the animals and their full stomachs . . . the animals were robust and healthy when they died" (Farrand, 1961). Neither in his article nor in his letters of rebuttal does Farrand ever face the reality of worldwide catastrophe represented by the millions of bones deposited all over this planet right at the end of the Pleistocene.

Some geologists may be softening their traditional stand against axial tilts and other rotational variations which could be the cause of world catastrophies. Dr. J. R. Heirtzler of the Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory observed that there has been "a revival of a 30-year-old theory that the glacial ages were caused by changes in the tilt of the earth's axis . . . there is clear evidence that large earthquakes occur at about the same time as certain changes in the earth's rotational motion." He goes on to say: "Whatever the mechanism of these changes, it is not hard to believe that similar changes in the earth's axial motion in times past could have caused major earthquake and mountain-building activity (see my Archeology page: Tiahuanacu) and could even have caused the magnetic field to flip" (Heirtzler, 1968). It has also been found that the end of the Pleistocene was attended by rampant volcanic activity (Hibben, 1946).

More recently Prof. Stephen Jay Gould, professor of geology at Harvard University, after studying the geological and paleontological record intensively, has championed the cause for open-minded consideration of catastrophism and uniformitarianism. He concludes that both concepts are represented equally in the geological record (Gould, 1977). Prof. Hibben appears to sum up the situation in a single statement: "The Pleistocene period ended in death. This was no ordinary extinction of a vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end. This death was catastrophic and all inclusive" (Hibben, 1946).

So it seems we have the end of the Ice Age, the Pleistocene extinction, the end of the Upper Paleolithic (Magdalenian, Perigordian and all others), and the close of the "reign of the gods" in Manetho, all on roughly the same date - 10,000 B.C. It appears to me that the evidence, when all of it is taken into full consideration, points to a worldwide catastrophe, from whatever cause, which occurred at the close of the Pleistocene Epoch (roughly 10,000 B.C.) And this is about the date Plato gives for the sinking of Atlantis.

TOP of Page Bibliography

Berlitz, Charles, "The Mystery of Atlantis," New York, 1969. Farrand, William R., "Frozen Mammoths and Modern Geology," Science, Vol.133, No. 3455, March 17, 1961. Heirtzler, J. R., "Sea-floor spreading," Scientific American, Vol. 219, No. 6, December 1968. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Catastrophies and Steady State Earth," Natural History, Vol. LXXXIV, No. 2, February 1975. Gould, Stephen Jay, "Evolution's Erratic Pace," Natural History, Vol. LXXXVII, No. 5, May 1977. Hibben, Frank, "The Lost Americans," Thomas & Crowell Co., New York, 1946. Leonard, R. Cedric, Appendix A in "A Geological Study of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge," Special Paper No. 1, Cowen Publ., Bethany, 1979. Lippman, Harold E., "Frozen Mammoths," Physical Geology, New York, 1969. Martin, P. S. & Guilday, J. E., "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," Pleistocene Extinction, Yale University, 1967. Sanderson, Ivan T., "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, No. 39, January 16, 1960. Simpson, George G., "Horses," New York, 1961. Vereshchagin, N. K., "Primitive Hunters and Pleistocene Extinction in the Soviet Union," Pleistocene Extinction (P. S. Martin & H. E. Wright, J., editors), New Haven, 1967.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: archaeology; catastrophism; extinction; florida; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; history; iceage; paleontology; pleistocene; verobeach; veroman
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1 posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: PatrickHenry
Ping!!
2 posted on 07/25/2003 7:34:34 PM PDT by AntiGuv ()
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To: ckilmer
That's what happens when you shift the north pole from Hudson Bay to where it is now.
3 posted on 07/25/2003 7:36:43 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
when did that happen?
4 posted on 07/25/2003 7:40:57 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: djf
That's what happens when you shift the north pole from Hudson Bay to where it is now.

What did GWB know about this and when did he know it?

Who / what was the intell source on this? Sounds to me like this administration has misled me!

LVM

5 posted on 07/25/2003 7:42:17 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: ckilmer
I've heard alot of guestimates. They average about 11,600 yrs ago.
6 posted on 07/25/2003 7:43:15 PM PDT by djf
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To: ckilmer
Very nice, but the article is over 20 years old. No serious scholar today believes in complete uniformitarianism.

Stephen Jay Goulds theory of "Punctuated Equilibrium" has completely displaced it.

This article is so out of date that the daring young Dr. Gould cited for his early articles, has since become one of the most famous Natural Scientists of all time, and has died of old age.

So9

7 posted on 07/25/2003 7:48:07 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Inquiring minds want to know)
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To: LasVegasMac
Do a google on "Hugh Auchincloss Brown"
8 posted on 07/25/2003 7:48:41 PM PDT by djf
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To: AntiGuv
seems to me the most important question would be: how does one ascertain the frequency of such catastrophes? It's nice to know it's happened before but that wont do us any good if it suddenly happens again next tuesday, y'know?
9 posted on 07/25/2003 7:54:00 PM PDT by ahadams2
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To: Servant of the Nine
Nevertheless, I liked the way he focused on the 'bone-islands' of Northern Siberia. That was the one compelling data-point in Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision'.

Something sure as H*ll happened all of a sudden!
10 posted on 07/25/2003 7:59:53 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: LasVegasMac
You failed to take the next logical step.

You must demand that George W Bush return the north pole to the Hudson river, where it belongs. The environment destroying Republicans and their Big Business allies must restore the previous state of nature.

Wow, this is fun. I'm going to become a liberal. Life is so much easier.

11 posted on 07/25/2003 8:01:36 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt
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To: ahadams2
seems to me the most important question would be: how does one ascertain the frequency of such catastrophes?

Wrong.

The most important question is, how much harder did this impact Pleistocene women and minorities?

12 posted on 07/25/2003 8:04:20 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: ckilmer
The question is: "What would kill all the 6 foot beavers, and leave all the 2 foot beavers?

Once you have an answer that fits both, then you have the answer to what happened.

13 posted on 07/25/2003 8:05:58 PM PDT by waterstraat
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To: djf
Do a google on "Hugh Auchincloss Brown"

Ok, I did.

955 returns on the search.

I spent 23 seconds (my limit - same limit I use for e-mail, by the way) scanning the first two links.

The first link said he was known as a bit of a crack pot.

Next clue?

LVM

14 posted on 07/25/2003 8:11:31 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: waterstraat
The two foot beavers probably ducked.
15 posted on 07/25/2003 8:19:09 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (Served in Vietnam and Korea and still fighting America's enemies on the home front)
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To: ckilmer
I think one could compare this event with Hillary being elected President of the United States.
16 posted on 07/25/2003 8:20:08 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (Served in Vietnam and Korea and still fighting America's enemies on the home front)
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To: LasVegasMac
A man was born in 1880. He earned his PHD in astronomy. But he was always interested in geology. By looking at maps and fossil evidence, he came up with a theory, and published it.

He was widely and loudly denounced by his critics as a crackpot. He died on an expedition to Greenland in 1930, his theory totally denied by modern science.

Then, about 1950, they started mapping the ocean floor and discovered the mid-atlantic ridge. They finally had to accept his theory, but instead of calling it "Continental Drift", they called it "Plate Tectonics"

The most astounding and revealing theory of Geology ever discovered was invented by an astronomer, Alfred Wegener, and never accepted in his lifetime.
17 posted on 07/25/2003 8:21:34 PM PDT by djf
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To: Castlebar
LOL - no wonder I never wrote a successful grant request! I guess this means we have to now require the folks digging out the various frozen flora and fauna to keep track of all related gender issues as well? :-)

18 posted on 07/25/2003 8:27:26 PM PDT by ahadams2
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To: djf
Maybe the melting of the ice in the high (at that time) Northern Latitudes caused a displacement of the Earth's axis.
19 posted on 07/25/2003 8:46:57 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (RATS: We're sorry Saddam.)
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To: ahadams2
Gender issues? Shhhhh. Be careful even mentioning gender. The liberal thought police will take you away for writing the word, much less speaking it.
20 posted on 07/25/2003 8:55:35 PM PDT by 11B3 (We live in "interesting times". Indeed.)
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To: djf
djf, my original post was purely in jest.

Then, about 1950, they started mapping the ocean floor and discovered the mid-atlantic ridge. They finally had to accept his theory, but instead of calling it "Continental Drift", they called it "Plate Tectonics"

This did get my attention. I have had, and still do, a keen interest in geology - started when I moved into an area that was "hot" - Nevada - 20 some years ago.

I make no claims to expert knowledge, but I know enough that the Feds intent to carry on with Yucca Mountain is truly stupid. Several "go arounds" on this forum with other folks - all well east of here, curiously enough :) - that think all their nuclear waste should go to Nevada.

The ignorant are, sometimes, blinded by their stupidity.

As for your link, I thank you. Book marked and will be reading about soon.

When the idea that the current continental configuration was indeed "fluid" was first published - it was shunned.

Then it was proved. Pangea (sp ?) to what we have now - ever changing, etc.

Again, I am fortunate to live out west - where it's happening - seismically speaking.

I think there are about 20 people in this town that know there is an "extinct" volcano in the mountain range that borders the east side of this valley. Or know about the "Long Valley Caldera" on the California / Nevada border. The last time it blew it covered this area in 6" of ash - and that event was not all that long ago, in geologic terms.

I poked fun with my first post. No offense intended. I do apprecitate the link you sent.

LVM

21 posted on 07/25/2003 8:55:46 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: ckilmer
YEC INTREP
22 posted on 07/25/2003 8:58:10 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: LasVegasMac
Come on up to Puget Sound for some active geology and volcanism. Just be careful where you stay - they aren't going to issue warnings to some towns now since there won't be time to evacuate.
23 posted on 07/25/2003 8:58:54 PM PDT by 11B3 (We live in "interesting times". Indeed.)
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To: 11B3
I like the signs down near the coast "Tsunami escape route".
If there was a tsunami, the first guy on the road would be some geezer with a bum hip in a '63 rambler that would blow a rod half way up the hill!

Talk about traffic jams...
24 posted on 07/25/2003 9:05:05 PM PDT by djf
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: djf
They just had another event near Portland, a 2.2, that makes 5 today.

I hereby declare that the new volcano in the pnw is named "Mt. djf"!
26 posted on 07/25/2003 9:21:00 PM PDT by djf
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To: waterstraat
Only the small ones fit in the first Ark. They had to leave the big ones behind. :)
27 posted on 07/25/2003 9:21:44 PM PDT by swany
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To: Battle Axe
Interesting.
28 posted on 07/25/2003 9:24:17 PM PDT by swany
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To: 11B3
Come on up to Puget Sound for some active geology and volcanism.

Well thank you for the invite - but I have to decline - for health reasons.

Seems that awhile back they found evidence (trees buried under several feet of sand) of some rather sizeable tsunamis in your locale.

Tsunamis are a given fact if you live close to the ocean. The problem with your area was that they found this evidence about 100 miles inland from the coast.

I may not be the brightest bulb in the "illumination" scheme but that tells me there was one hell of shake immediately off your coast.

Indeed, evidence points to repeated occurances of these events. Tick..tick..tick.

Your player is the Juan De Fuca plate. As - literally - opposed to the North Amercian and Pacific plates.

As a matter of fact, there is a new and growing volcano not too far off shore from you folks - forget the name they gave it - but of very high interest.

Of course we can't ignore the stuff to your west - Mt Hood, Mt Baker, Mt St Helens, etc.

The Rim of Fire.

What does not get enough publicity is the fact that the more these volcano's age, the less stable they become. Acidity from the volcanic gasses literally turn stone into clay.

Nevada ranks second in the "thin-ness" of the outer crust - what my house sits on. This state is literally being pulled apart - like you pull a pizza dough to spread it thin.

Again, thank you for the invite but I think I'll be staying here.

LVM

29 posted on 07/25/2003 9:32:45 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: LasVegasMac
Everything west of the central valley in California sits on the pacific plate. Most know about the San Andreas fault, but there are a number of faults that run basically east-west. The crust is being thinned, California is being sheared in half, it is a rift valley, expect the Baja peninsula to grow as LA becomes an island.
30 posted on 07/25/2003 9:42:35 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
Landers - North Ridge - we felt them.

Landers - stero speakers suspended from ceiling swaying, water in my pool - side to side waves - spilling out. I have a water bed. I was ready to bitch at the wife, "what the heck you doing over there?", when I noticed she was still asleep.

Won't be long before San Fran is in Alaska!!! Ha.

LVM

31 posted on 07/25/2003 10:05:57 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: LasVegasMac
Yup. You'll own either very expensive oceanfront property, or you'll need a houseboat!

The evidence for crustal shift has been growing, but the most important evidence to explain events like 11,600 years ago doesn't come from the bone fields (which are massive, there is still literally hundred of tons of mammoth ivory in the Siberian Steps).

The evidence comes from a volcanic ridge in Eastern Oregon called Steen Mountain. Two geophysicists, Coe and Prevot, went there to study the lave flows from an eruption that happened a few million years ago. They mapped out the tubes of the lava flows. They then drilled the lava flows to test composition and geomagnetic alignment.

In ten days, the magnetic field of the earth shifted 45 degrees. In two weeks, the total shift was 60 degrees.

In the two weeks mapped out, the magnetic pole of the earth shifted over 4,000 miles.

The data is incontrovertible. Something astounding happened. Something modern science doesn't have any sort of explanation for at all.
32 posted on 07/25/2003 10:20:15 PM PDT by djf
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To: ckilmer
My theory is that this epoch ending occurrence was caused by:

Southwesterly:

Umbrian:

Vibratory:

Striations

33 posted on 07/25/2003 10:28:04 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: djf
"They just had another event near Portland, a 2.2, that makes 5 today."

I was in the North Ridge earthquake back in '94. We had numerous small earthquakes in the 2 range off the coast of Santa Monica for a couple of weeks before it hit. Not to get you worried or anything...8-)

34 posted on 07/25/2003 10:33:02 PM PDT by etcetera
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To: djf
Djf, dude - or dudette - you are my new best friend - geologically speaking.

Are you from / in the north west? Not that that is important. Just curious.

People freaked about Mt St Helens when it blew. That was nothing but a sparkler show in a serious fireworks demonstration.

Mt Mazama. That was big. Memory - probably wrong - tells me that event was about 11,000 years ago. Yellowstone National Park. That was big - several times. A caldera of huge proportions - and now growing - again. Reload.

I have not heard of Steen Mountain - it has actually been several (5 -6) years since I've been actively looking / reading. etc.

Have you been to Idaho - Craters of the Moon, etc? Snake River Plateau, etc?

Several documented cases of the the magnetic fields completely flip-flopping. All from looking at lava. Amazing stuff.

LVM

35 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:14 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: etcetera
The trouble with the scientists is all they say is "That's normal seismic activity" over and over till something happens, then they say "That one wasn't!"

Guess if we want predictions, we gotta call Miss Cleo or somethin.
37 posted on 07/25/2003 10:59:48 PM PDT by djf
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To: Atlantin
The longest and most grande physical feature on Earth is the mid-oceanic ridge, a chain of mountains running some 40,000 miles long.

I've spent the equivalent of weeks 1,400 feet underground in an active gold mine, so I know a little about rocks. (besides the ones I have in my head)
38 posted on 07/25/2003 11:12:00 PM PDT by djf
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: ckilmer
ping
40 posted on 07/26/2003 2:36:11 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Battle Axe
Nice post.

My theory is that Noah prefered to take the 2 foot beavers into his ark, instead of the 6 foot variety, they would take up less space and less food.

Although it is not necessary to believe that Noah had dinosaurs on the ark, the flood theory would certainly explain why all the dinosaurs died out in one generation.

Besides satisfying why the little dinosaurs did not survive with the big ones, you also have to account for everything else that did survive. Eg, crocidiles,turtles, and ants and cockaroaches, etc which everyone agrees were concurrent with the dinosaurs.

Again, the flood theory holds up. After the flood, only those reptiles who "hid" their eggs(by burying them ) e.g. crocidiles would survive, because the mammels let loose from the ark would quickly eat up any dinosaur eggs lying around on top of the ground- thus all dinosaurs which layed eggs on top of the ground died out in one generation - didnt matter if they were big dinosaurs or little ones.

The meteor theory which said that big dinosaurs could not find food, does not account for why the little dinosaurs which required very little food also died out. A world wide disaster which resulted in little vegetation does not explain why tiny dinosaurs survived.

As far as why we think the earth "appears" to be so old, is because you cant make a mountain in one day, and make it look like it is one day old.

One single minute after a mountain was made, it "looked" a billion years old, not a day. One second minute after Adam was made he looked like a 30 year old male, not a one second old male. There is no way to make a 30 year old male appear to be only one second old.

41 posted on 07/26/2003 4:33:27 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: ckilmer
If the earth and the oceans were as old as some scientists say, then the sediment and mineral deposits in the ocean would be vastly larger than what we find.

It has been calculated by many scientists how much deposits we have in the ocean and how deep the sediment is. We also have calcuated how much deposits are run off into the ocean each year. From that we can calculate how long the oceans have been around by adding up the yearly deposit runoff until we get the total deposits in the ocean.

Nearly all minerals and deposits calculations add up to between 5000 and 10000 years of runoff.

42 posted on 07/26/2003 4:37:33 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: U S Army EOD
Normally, when you talk of "natural selection", and "survival of the fittest", you would think that the 6 foot beaver would push the little beavers out of the way, and only the bigger mammels would survive.

What actually happened, says that all the little mammels lived, all the little male animals got to mate with the female animals, and all the big mammels eventually died out, regardless of food source or living conditions - that is contrary to the obvious in who survives and who doesnt when brute force determines who takes over making the dam and who gets to mate with female beavers.

43 posted on 07/26/2003 4:43:03 AM PDT by waterstraat
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
Disaster bump
45 posted on 07/26/2003 7:39:13 AM PDT by aruanan
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Battle Axe
Large animals tend to be more vunerable to extinction than small animals, as there are smaller numbers of them, and they can't scavenge small pockets of food as effectively.

Burrow and den dwellers are acustomed to low oxygen levels. It's possible 6 ft beavers denned in more open areas, while their 2 ft cousins denned in a more familliar enclosed lodge.

I find it fascinating that the North American cows (bison) and the goats (deer and antelope) survived where the camel and horse did not.

I'm guessing here. Camel and horse are almost exclusively flatlanders - low altitude. Goats deer and antelope also dwell in mountains - high altitude. If there is a drop in oxygen levels the high altitude critters could move down hill to an area with higher partial pressure of oxygen. Flatlanders are stuck, no place to go to get enough air, they can't run far, think clearly, etc...

47 posted on 07/26/2003 8:45:31 AM PDT by null and void (Don't know about the bison...)
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To: Battle Axe
Probability Zero
48 posted on 07/26/2003 8:47:37 AM PDT by null and void (Analog just isn't the same since Kanukistan took it over...)
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To: ckilmer
Bump
To read later
49 posted on 07/26/2003 8:54:13 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (~~~ http://www.ourgangnet.net ~~~~~)
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To: ckilmer
TILT! Game's over!
50 posted on 07/26/2003 9:03:42 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus (Pseudo conservatives are everywhere.)
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