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The Pleistocene Extinction
atlantisquest ^

Posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer

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1 posted on 07/25/2003 7:32:42 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: PatrickHenry
Ping!!
2 posted on 07/25/2003 7:34:34 PM PDT by AntiGuv ()
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To: ckilmer
That's what happens when you shift the north pole from Hudson Bay to where it is now.
3 posted on 07/25/2003 7:36:43 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
when did that happen?
4 posted on 07/25/2003 7:40:57 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: djf
That's what happens when you shift the north pole from Hudson Bay to where it is now.

What did GWB know about this and when did he know it?

Who / what was the intell source on this? Sounds to me like this administration has misled me!

LVM

5 posted on 07/25/2003 7:42:17 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: ckilmer
I've heard alot of guestimates. They average about 11,600 yrs ago.
6 posted on 07/25/2003 7:43:15 PM PDT by djf
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To: ckilmer
Very nice, but the article is over 20 years old. No serious scholar today believes in complete uniformitarianism.

Stephen Jay Goulds theory of "Punctuated Equilibrium" has completely displaced it.

This article is so out of date that the daring young Dr. Gould cited for his early articles, has since become one of the most famous Natural Scientists of all time, and has died of old age.

So9

7 posted on 07/25/2003 7:48:07 PM PDT by Servant of the Nine (Inquiring minds want to know)
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To: LasVegasMac
Do a google on "Hugh Auchincloss Brown"
8 posted on 07/25/2003 7:48:41 PM PDT by djf
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To: AntiGuv
seems to me the most important question would be: how does one ascertain the frequency of such catastrophes? It's nice to know it's happened before but that wont do us any good if it suddenly happens again next tuesday, y'know?
9 posted on 07/25/2003 7:54:00 PM PDT by ahadams2
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To: Servant of the Nine
Nevertheless, I liked the way he focused on the 'bone-islands' of Northern Siberia. That was the one compelling data-point in Velikovsky's 'Worlds in Collision'.

Something sure as H*ll happened all of a sudden!
10 posted on 07/25/2003 7:59:53 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: LasVegasMac
You failed to take the next logical step.

You must demand that George W Bush return the north pole to the Hudson river, where it belongs. The environment destroying Republicans and their Big Business allies must restore the previous state of nature.

Wow, this is fun. I'm going to become a liberal. Life is so much easier.

11 posted on 07/25/2003 8:01:36 PM PDT by Jabba the Nutt
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To: ahadams2
seems to me the most important question would be: how does one ascertain the frequency of such catastrophes?

Wrong.

The most important question is, how much harder did this impact Pleistocene women and minorities?

12 posted on 07/25/2003 8:04:20 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: ckilmer
The question is: "What would kill all the 6 foot beavers, and leave all the 2 foot beavers?

Once you have an answer that fits both, then you have the answer to what happened.

13 posted on 07/25/2003 8:05:58 PM PDT by waterstraat
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To: djf
Do a google on "Hugh Auchincloss Brown"

Ok, I did.

955 returns on the search.

I spent 23 seconds (my limit - same limit I use for e-mail, by the way) scanning the first two links.

The first link said he was known as a bit of a crack pot.

Next clue?

LVM

14 posted on 07/25/2003 8:11:31 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: waterstraat
The two foot beavers probably ducked.
15 posted on 07/25/2003 8:19:09 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (Served in Vietnam and Korea and still fighting America's enemies on the home front)
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To: ckilmer
I think one could compare this event with Hillary being elected President of the United States.
16 posted on 07/25/2003 8:20:08 PM PDT by U S Army EOD (Served in Vietnam and Korea and still fighting America's enemies on the home front)
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To: LasVegasMac
A man was born in 1880. He earned his PHD in astronomy. But he was always interested in geology. By looking at maps and fossil evidence, he came up with a theory, and published it.

He was widely and loudly denounced by his critics as a crackpot. He died on an expedition to Greenland in 1930, his theory totally denied by modern science.

Then, about 1950, they started mapping the ocean floor and discovered the mid-atlantic ridge. They finally had to accept his theory, but instead of calling it "Continental Drift", they called it "Plate Tectonics"

The most astounding and revealing theory of Geology ever discovered was invented by an astronomer, Alfred Wegener, and never accepted in his lifetime.
17 posted on 07/25/2003 8:21:34 PM PDT by djf
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To: Castlebar
LOL - no wonder I never wrote a successful grant request! I guess this means we have to now require the folks digging out the various frozen flora and fauna to keep track of all related gender issues as well? :-)

18 posted on 07/25/2003 8:27:26 PM PDT by ahadams2
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To: djf
Maybe the melting of the ice in the high (at that time) Northern Latitudes caused a displacement of the Earth's axis.
19 posted on 07/25/2003 8:46:57 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (RATS: We're sorry Saddam.)
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To: ahadams2
Gender issues? Shhhhh. Be careful even mentioning gender. The liberal thought police will take you away for writing the word, much less speaking it.
20 posted on 07/25/2003 8:55:35 PM PDT by 11B3 (We live in "interesting times". Indeed.)
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To: djf
djf, my original post was purely in jest.

Then, about 1950, they started mapping the ocean floor and discovered the mid-atlantic ridge. They finally had to accept his theory, but instead of calling it "Continental Drift", they called it "Plate Tectonics"

This did get my attention. I have had, and still do, a keen interest in geology - started when I moved into an area that was "hot" - Nevada - 20 some years ago.

I make no claims to expert knowledge, but I know enough that the Feds intent to carry on with Yucca Mountain is truly stupid. Several "go arounds" on this forum with other folks - all well east of here, curiously enough :) - that think all their nuclear waste should go to Nevada.

The ignorant are, sometimes, blinded by their stupidity.

As for your link, I thank you. Book marked and will be reading about soon.

When the idea that the current continental configuration was indeed "fluid" was first published - it was shunned.

Then it was proved. Pangea (sp ?) to what we have now - ever changing, etc.

Again, I am fortunate to live out west - where it's happening - seismically speaking.

I think there are about 20 people in this town that know there is an "extinct" volcano in the mountain range that borders the east side of this valley. Or know about the "Long Valley Caldera" on the California / Nevada border. The last time it blew it covered this area in 6" of ash - and that event was not all that long ago, in geologic terms.

I poked fun with my first post. No offense intended. I do apprecitate the link you sent.

LVM

21 posted on 07/25/2003 8:55:46 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: ckilmer
YEC INTREP
22 posted on 07/25/2003 8:58:10 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: LasVegasMac
Come on up to Puget Sound for some active geology and volcanism. Just be careful where you stay - they aren't going to issue warnings to some towns now since there won't be time to evacuate.
23 posted on 07/25/2003 8:58:54 PM PDT by 11B3 (We live in "interesting times". Indeed.)
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To: 11B3
I like the signs down near the coast "Tsunami escape route".
If there was a tsunami, the first guy on the road would be some geezer with a bum hip in a '63 rambler that would blow a rod half way up the hill!

Talk about traffic jams...
24 posted on 07/25/2003 9:05:05 PM PDT by djf
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: djf
They just had another event near Portland, a 2.2, that makes 5 today.

I hereby declare that the new volcano in the pnw is named "Mt. djf"!
26 posted on 07/25/2003 9:21:00 PM PDT by djf
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To: waterstraat
Only the small ones fit in the first Ark. They had to leave the big ones behind. :)
27 posted on 07/25/2003 9:21:44 PM PDT by swany
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To: Battle Axe
Interesting.
28 posted on 07/25/2003 9:24:17 PM PDT by swany
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To: 11B3
Come on up to Puget Sound for some active geology and volcanism.

Well thank you for the invite - but I have to decline - for health reasons.

Seems that awhile back they found evidence (trees buried under several feet of sand) of some rather sizeable tsunamis in your locale.

Tsunamis are a given fact if you live close to the ocean. The problem with your area was that they found this evidence about 100 miles inland from the coast.

I may not be the brightest bulb in the "illumination" scheme but that tells me there was one hell of shake immediately off your coast.

Indeed, evidence points to repeated occurances of these events. Tick..tick..tick.

Your player is the Juan De Fuca plate. As - literally - opposed to the North Amercian and Pacific plates.

As a matter of fact, there is a new and growing volcano not too far off shore from you folks - forget the name they gave it - but of very high interest.

Of course we can't ignore the stuff to your west - Mt Hood, Mt Baker, Mt St Helens, etc.

The Rim of Fire.

What does not get enough publicity is the fact that the more these volcano's age, the less stable they become. Acidity from the volcanic gasses literally turn stone into clay.

Nevada ranks second in the "thin-ness" of the outer crust - what my house sits on. This state is literally being pulled apart - like you pull a pizza dough to spread it thin.

Again, thank you for the invite but I think I'll be staying here.

LVM

29 posted on 07/25/2003 9:32:45 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: LasVegasMac
Everything west of the central valley in California sits on the pacific plate. Most know about the San Andreas fault, but there are a number of faults that run basically east-west. The crust is being thinned, California is being sheared in half, it is a rift valley, expect the Baja peninsula to grow as LA becomes an island.
30 posted on 07/25/2003 9:42:35 PM PDT by djf
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To: djf
Landers - North Ridge - we felt them.

Landers - stero speakers suspended from ceiling swaying, water in my pool - side to side waves - spilling out. I have a water bed. I was ready to bitch at the wife, "what the heck you doing over there?", when I noticed she was still asleep.

Won't be long before San Fran is in Alaska!!! Ha.

LVM

31 posted on 07/25/2003 10:05:57 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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To: LasVegasMac
Yup. You'll own either very expensive oceanfront property, or you'll need a houseboat!

The evidence for crustal shift has been growing, but the most important evidence to explain events like 11,600 years ago doesn't come from the bone fields (which are massive, there is still literally hundred of tons of mammoth ivory in the Siberian Steps).

The evidence comes from a volcanic ridge in Eastern Oregon called Steen Mountain. Two geophysicists, Coe and Prevot, went there to study the lave flows from an eruption that happened a few million years ago. They mapped out the tubes of the lava flows. They then drilled the lava flows to test composition and geomagnetic alignment.

In ten days, the magnetic field of the earth shifted 45 degrees. In two weeks, the total shift was 60 degrees.

In the two weeks mapped out, the magnetic pole of the earth shifted over 4,000 miles.

The data is incontrovertible. Something astounding happened. Something modern science doesn't have any sort of explanation for at all.
32 posted on 07/25/2003 10:20:15 PM PDT by djf
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To: ckilmer
My theory is that this epoch ending occurrence was caused by:

Southwesterly:

Umbrian:

Vibratory:

Striations

33 posted on 07/25/2003 10:28:04 PM PDT by Young Werther
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To: djf
"They just had another event near Portland, a 2.2, that makes 5 today."

I was in the North Ridge earthquake back in '94. We had numerous small earthquakes in the 2 range off the coast of Santa Monica for a couple of weeks before it hit. Not to get you worried or anything...8-)

34 posted on 07/25/2003 10:33:02 PM PDT by etcetera
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To: djf
Djf, dude - or dudette - you are my new best friend - geologically speaking.

Are you from / in the north west? Not that that is important. Just curious.

People freaked about Mt St Helens when it blew. That was nothing but a sparkler show in a serious fireworks demonstration.

Mt Mazama. That was big. Memory - probably wrong - tells me that event was about 11,000 years ago. Yellowstone National Park. That was big - several times. A caldera of huge proportions - and now growing - again. Reload.

I have not heard of Steen Mountain - it has actually been several (5 -6) years since I've been actively looking / reading. etc.

Have you been to Idaho - Craters of the Moon, etc? Snake River Plateau, etc?

Several documented cases of the the magnetic fields completely flip-flopping. All from looking at lava. Amazing stuff.

LVM

35 posted on 07/25/2003 10:48:14 PM PDT by LasVegasMac
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Comment #36 Removed by Moderator

To: etcetera
The trouble with the scientists is all they say is "That's normal seismic activity" over and over till something happens, then they say "That one wasn't!"

Guess if we want predictions, we gotta call Miss Cleo or somethin.
37 posted on 07/25/2003 10:59:48 PM PDT by djf
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To: Atlantin
The longest and most grande physical feature on Earth is the mid-oceanic ridge, a chain of mountains running some 40,000 miles long.

I've spent the equivalent of weeks 1,400 feet underground in an active gold mine, so I know a little about rocks. (besides the ones I have in my head)
38 posted on 07/25/2003 11:12:00 PM PDT by djf
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: ckilmer
ping
40 posted on 07/26/2003 2:36:11 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Battle Axe
Nice post.

My theory is that Noah prefered to take the 2 foot beavers into his ark, instead of the 6 foot variety, they would take up less space and less food.

Although it is not necessary to believe that Noah had dinosaurs on the ark, the flood theory would certainly explain why all the dinosaurs died out in one generation.

Besides satisfying why the little dinosaurs did not survive with the big ones, you also have to account for everything else that did survive. Eg, crocidiles,turtles, and ants and cockaroaches, etc which everyone agrees were concurrent with the dinosaurs.

Again, the flood theory holds up. After the flood, only those reptiles who "hid" their eggs(by burying them ) e.g. crocidiles would survive, because the mammels let loose from the ark would quickly eat up any dinosaur eggs lying around on top of the ground- thus all dinosaurs which layed eggs on top of the ground died out in one generation - didnt matter if they were big dinosaurs or little ones.

The meteor theory which said that big dinosaurs could not find food, does not account for why the little dinosaurs which required very little food also died out. A world wide disaster which resulted in little vegetation does not explain why tiny dinosaurs survived.

As far as why we think the earth "appears" to be so old, is because you cant make a mountain in one day, and make it look like it is one day old.

One single minute after a mountain was made, it "looked" a billion years old, not a day. One second minute after Adam was made he looked like a 30 year old male, not a one second old male. There is no way to make a 30 year old male appear to be only one second old.

41 posted on 07/26/2003 4:33:27 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: ckilmer
If the earth and the oceans were as old as some scientists say, then the sediment and mineral deposits in the ocean would be vastly larger than what we find.

It has been calculated by many scientists how much deposits we have in the ocean and how deep the sediment is. We also have calcuated how much deposits are run off into the ocean each year. From that we can calculate how long the oceans have been around by adding up the yearly deposit runoff until we get the total deposits in the ocean.

Nearly all minerals and deposits calculations add up to between 5000 and 10000 years of runoff.

42 posted on 07/26/2003 4:37:33 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: U S Army EOD
Normally, when you talk of "natural selection", and "survival of the fittest", you would think that the 6 foot beaver would push the little beavers out of the way, and only the bigger mammels would survive.

What actually happened, says that all the little mammels lived, all the little male animals got to mate with the female animals, and all the big mammels eventually died out, regardless of food source or living conditions - that is contrary to the obvious in who survives and who doesnt when brute force determines who takes over making the dam and who gets to mate with female beavers.

43 posted on 07/26/2003 4:43:03 AM PDT by waterstraat
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: blam
Disaster bump
45 posted on 07/26/2003 7:39:13 AM PDT by aruanan
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: Battle Axe
Large animals tend to be more vunerable to extinction than small animals, as there are smaller numbers of them, and they can't scavenge small pockets of food as effectively.

Burrow and den dwellers are acustomed to low oxygen levels. It's possible 6 ft beavers denned in more open areas, while their 2 ft cousins denned in a more familliar enclosed lodge.

I find it fascinating that the North American cows (bison) and the goats (deer and antelope) survived where the camel and horse did not.

I'm guessing here. Camel and horse are almost exclusively flatlanders - low altitude. Goats deer and antelope also dwell in mountains - high altitude. If there is a drop in oxygen levels the high altitude critters could move down hill to an area with higher partial pressure of oxygen. Flatlanders are stuck, no place to go to get enough air, they can't run far, think clearly, etc...

47 posted on 07/26/2003 8:45:31 AM PDT by null and void (Don't know about the bison...)
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To: Battle Axe
Probability Zero
48 posted on 07/26/2003 8:47:37 AM PDT by null and void (Analog just isn't the same since Kanukistan took it over...)
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To: ckilmer
Bump
To read later
49 posted on 07/26/2003 8:54:13 AM PDT by Fiddlstix (~~~ http://www.ourgangnet.net ~~~~~)
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To: ckilmer
TILT! Game's over!
50 posted on 07/26/2003 9:03:42 AM PDT by Paulus Invictus (Pseudo conservatives are everywhere.)
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