Internet discussion board for police shut down

Indy Star ^

[Stew Padasso]

SOUTH BEND, IND. -- An Internet discussion board hosted by the Fraternal Order of Police has been shut down, less than a week after it attracted criticism from the NAACP.

The South Bend chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People claimed that some of the discussions on the board were derogatory and offensive to minorities.

[mhking]

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[FourPeas]

Who needs the First Amendment anyway?

[1L]

Unless the fraternal order of police suddenly became a state entity, the first amendment doesn't apply. Even if it were a state entity, the FA still doesn't apply because there is no requirement that government fund an internet forum as a public forum. Buy a newspaper or start your own internet site. When THAT gets shut down by the state, call me.

[Husker24]

At a news conference, she offered printouts as examples, showing remarks critical of Luecke and of minorities who took part in riots in Benton Harbor, Mich., earlier this summer.

God forbid they were critical of people taking part in rioting.

[gcruse]

Members plan to research legal issues pertaining to the discussion board over the next couple of weeks before deciding whether to reopen or permanently remove it, the note said.

"Now, where is my copy of the Constitution?"
"Oh, you threw that long ago."
"Nuts.  There's never a Clarence Darrow around when you need one."

[dwd1]

May I assume that there was some venting on the forum concerning dealing with certain groups that indicate an attitude of animosity toward minorities...

I guess the question that we need to ask is "Do the officers that express a view let it affect their work?" and "How would the officer expressing a view that indicates prejudice feel if the tables were turned and the person who indicates prejudice toward his group carried a gun and a badge?"

That's why they call it the golden rule....Do unto others....

[joesnuffy]

In a free society
no one has the right
to not be critisized

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, nothing says the officers can't start their own discussion forum - one not under control of, or associated with, the state. There are plenty of forums software packages available, both for purchase and for free, that they could use - and then we can watch the NAACP beat their heads into the wall all day long trying to get it shut down to no avail...

[FourPeas]

It was meant as sarcasm in response to the remark from the article:

"We are not backing down," she added. "We want to make certain that the Web site stays shut down."

Obviously the FOP has the right to close down or even censor postings on their own message board as does the owner of this forum. At the same time, the FOP has the right to host all the racism they wish to (as foolish as it is). I do thank you, though, for the primer on the application of the First Ammendment.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"On Thursday, a note posted on the Web site said FOP members decided to close the board after a lengthy debate. "

**Yeah right...more like 5 seconds of unilateral thought.


"The NAACP had nothing to do with what we are doing," FOP President Ron Nowicki said. He did not specify what the legal issues were but said the FOP has been reviewing them since January. "

This is what scares me. A biased, corrupt, anti-white organization (NAACP) can shut down a law enforcement venture in seconds for any reason they deem fit, and the law enforcement agency/politicians roll over in seconds...and then exhude (sp?)complete cowardice in their explanation and response to the people and the press.

Please don't jump on me for being anti police. I am not, I totally believe in the right of the police to gather and speak freely on-line.

If orgs like the NAACP can exercise such power over the police, how long will it be before they really start influencing more serious law enforcement policy?

[dwd1]

I was here in LA during the riots of 92...It was unbelievable what people are capable of in a situation like that....Though I still think that the rioting we experienced in LA was more about the haves versus the have nots, I think we have to give the officers the chance to express themselves and have a free discussion....i.e. I may disagree with what you say but I served nine years and twenty days to protect your right to say it...

I think the NAACP is wrong...It may give us insight into what police go through every day and what their thought processes may be....We have to remember that this is just a human being that like everybody else, wants to go home to his loved ones at night...

[LibWhacker]

Exactly. They could even set one up on Yahoo or Usenet for no cost. They're far from being silenced.

[Old Professer]

The riots in 92 were just a repeat of the riots of 65; only the grandchildren were involved this time.

Burned the same buildings, even.

[dwd1]

I do believe that I would probably disagree with many views expressed on that FOP Forum but we have to give them the right to express themselves....I would think that engaging them in discussion about why they are expressing a certain view would be a lot more productive than telling them that though they are supposed to serve and protect the public, they have no right to enjoy the same freedoms they are supposed to protect...."We are here to preserve democracy, not practice it! (Gene Hackman's Character in Crimson Tide)

[JZoback]

Burned the same buildings, even.

Is that what they call urban renewal?

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"Unless the fraternal order of police suddenly became a state entity, the first amendment doesn't apply. Even if it were a state entity, the FA still doesn't apply because there is no requirement that government fund an internet forum as a public forum. Buy a newspaper or start your own internet site. When THAT gets shut down by the state, call me."

The fact is that the state funds plenty of other outlets where groups freely express views that are contrary to sometimes a majority of Americans...yet they operate freely.

Either eliminate all of it or eliminate none of it. It is the selectivity and the uneven influence exercised by only certain groups (to censor) which is not right.

[dwd1]

Slightly different...The first riots were based on a misunderstanding....In 92, there was a triggering event that some could argue was more legitimate...After that, however, I would guess that the behavior was equally appalling...I still remember seeing guys hanging out and then, I heard the sound of glass smashing and these men just fell upon that shop like wolves....

Also, I have heard that the 65 riots were more devastating economically because a lot of Jewish people that had brought business into South Central left and took their businesses with them...

Obviously, both showed a self destructiveness that I still do not understand....

[rmvh]

The NAACP is totally corrupt, a trouble maker, and only interested in its power with little true concern for black people on major issues.

For example (and this is all well documented)It has been consistently against school vouchers to enable black parents in DC to have alternative choices for their children who attend these pathetic institutions.....the absolutely worst schools in the nation.....and the highest cost per student to taxpayers...$15,000 per year per child. Why? So they can maintain the support of the equally corrupt teachers unions in the US.

Black children in DC are turned out literally as dumb as tent posts and many are basically illiterate....Where does the money go? Even the black mayor of DC has finally come to oppose the NAACP on this particular outrage

Generally, Blacks continue to not see under the tent and follow their leaders ( the NAACP is a good example)like mindless robots. There are some black leaders who are working to improve the educational opportunities for these children and leave these stupid (like this subject in South Bend) for a later time. The NAACP is is just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with this Indiana issue!!.

Where is the black community ourtrage and desire to force the NAACP to address real problems while getting behind the needs of the children.???

[xm177e2]

Who needs the First Amendment anyway?

Maybe you should re-read the First Amendment.

It's no more a violation of the First Amendment for the FOP to shut down this board than it was a violation of the First Amendment for Clear Channel to pull the Dixie Chicks off the air for a while.

[dwd1]

The saddest part about any riot seems to be that police are in a catch 22 situation....They have to stand their ground without the support of community they are trying to protect...Excessive force provokes the community further...Backing down emboldens the rioters....

In that situation, (thank you Professor Nash), the individuals are doing that which is not in their individual best interests or in the best interests of their community....

This is the reason that riots (or civil disturbances) most always be suppressed but the cause of the riot must be addressed as quickly as possible or...Grandchildren of rioters will be doing the same thing... In that respect, 65 and 92 show the same problem...

[Arrowhead1952]

Where is the black community ourtrage and desire to force the NAACP to address real problems while getting behind the needs of the children.???

The reason there is no outrage form the black community, is they have been duped by the dembocRATS for so long into believing they are worhtless and need the government doing everything for them. When I was growing up in central Texas, whites worked side by side with balcks, mexicans, and even one family of Indians. If anyone needed help in the fields, color did not matter. I remember hauling hay for one black family when there were storms coming. We did the same for anyone needing help. These people made it without any government assistance, and were proud of that fact. These days, everyone wants a handout.

[dwd1]

We are right here....I object strongly to the mindless robot statement but I understand where it comes from...The NAACP has helped the black community in the past...The problem that you have with them is the same problem we have with them...They present themselves as our leaders yet they never communicate with us....

The reason they have lost their way as an organization is because they feel no need to have an open and constant line of communication with those they are "representing".

I do not like the mindless robot statement but I dislike even more this group that in my forty years of existence has never solicited the opinion or inquired about the concerns of myself or of anyone I know (and I would like to think that I know some rather intelligient and very independent thinking black people).... Please direct your hostility toward that organization but please don't make the mistake of thinking that every black person (or even most) subscribes to their way of thinking...I assure you, it is not true...

[El Gato]

Well, nothing says the officers can't start their own discussion forum - one not under control of, or associated with, the state.

Since it was a FOP site, that's what it was. Sort of like a union site wouldn't be under the control of the company or companies where the members worked. They closed it under pressure from NAACP and probably from others. What they were afraid of was probably getting sued.

However, Some animals are more equal than others I guess, since you see plenty of critisim of police officers on the NAACP site.

[sgtbono2002]

Any discussion of blacks in any forum that is truthful is bound to be derogatory. The leader of the NAACP has 7 illigitimate kids. Is that truth derogatory ? I am sure he thinks the discussion of it is.

[dwd1]

Being from Muleshoe, up by Lubbock, I have to tell you that I have heard the pitch, but I can tell you that I do not swing at it...

You are correct in stating the way things are in Texas. We have our problems but I think we have more of a meritocracy there that here in CA....

Trust me when I say...The democrats did not convince everybody....

Nice post....

[FourPeas]

Please see post #10.

[breakem]

Worst business to own during the Watts riot?

White Front

[dwd1]

In our society, truth is a complete defense...

I do not think that any leaders have the moral authority to discuss another's private life...

I do object to the Rush Limbaugh attitude that I see where there is a tendency to always think the worst of the other person without examining the facts....

The NAACP does it to the police and I see it happening here...

As long as your facts are straight, most black people that I know have no trouble with an opinion or discussion based on that fact...

Usually it is the sweeping generalizations that cause a discussion to degenerate into name calling, finger pointing, and recriminations. Solves nothing...

[dwd1]

And in 92, the Korean grocers were savaged...

As a black person, it is so embarassing to see...

[xm177e2]

I still don't think it applies. The NAACP has the right to want to keep the site shut down. It doesn't violate anyone's First Amendment rights for them to press the FOP to keep the site down. It's a question of whether the FOP attaches its name to allegedly racist writing, and the NAACP doesn't want them to. There is nothing remotely related to the First Amendment here.

[philetus]

In a free society
no one has the right
to not be critisized

Try telling a fag in Cal, to his face, that he is perverted.

[dwd1]

I have not seen this web site so I wonder...If the FOP represents all police, there is a question as to whether they want racist attitudes to be published on their forum...However, can they not have a disclaimer that says "The views expressed are the views of the individual posting and do not reflect the view of the FOP and it's leadership..."

[dwd1]

Calling him names...legal...Slashing his tires or his throat...Well...

[Arrowhead1952]

Just heard on the local news in Austin, Willie Nelson is again praising the dumbocRATS for leaving the state. He said "Mommas, let your sons grow up to be dumbocrat senators". He was one of my favorite C&W singers. Not any more. Everything is going up in smoke. Just like his "joints"!

[dwd1]

I like him for his musical talent...

You can't tell me "You were always on my mind" doesn't still warm your heart...

These days, (as far as Country music goes on), I am a fan of Garth Brooks, Randy Travis, Hank Williams, Jr., and Charlie Daniels. I am also desperately trying to find out who sings "I like women just a little on the trashy side!"

Oh, yeah. Toby Keith has some excellent stuff...He seems to be a man's man across cultural lines...BTW, who were those girls that had FUTK on their shirts at some awards ceremony...

[El Gato]

Willie Nelson is again praising the dumbocRATS for leaving the state. He said "Mommas, let your sons grow up to be dumbocrat senators". He was one of my favorite C&W singers. Not any more. Everything is going up in smoke. Just like his "joints"!

Willie, bless his be-sotted (or should that be be-potted?) soul, has always beem a dumbocrat. He does put his own money where his mouth is, which is more than you can say for many of them, who want to put your money where their mouths are.

[dwd1]

From what I hear about the reason they ran, they left because the redistricting appears to be extreme gerrymandering in their opinion...Six incumbents may lose their seats because of it...I do not know the history of the districts in Texas because I was always in the 19th when I lived in Texas....The name "Kent Hance" is forever locked in my memory....

I guess the question I would ask is "Is this payback for the times that the lines have been redrawn in the past to unseat Republicans" or "Is this the Republicans taking exceptional advantage of the current political situation" In other words, is this a new level of political gamesmanship or business as usual....

Haven't kept up with Texas politics since 83. (God, I have gotten old...)

[Arrowhead1952]

who were those girls that had FUTK on their shirts at some awards ceremony...

That was the Dixie chicks' lead singer Natalie Maimes (SLUT) wearing the tee shirt. She is just another lib.

[Arrowhead1952]

He does put his own money where his mouth is

He did not make many friends during his 4th of July party this year. Had traffice backed up for hours on US 71 SW of Austin.

[dwd1]

Well, whoever she is, I don't think the State Department is going to be offering her a position in the diplomatic corps....

[honeygrl]

"We are not backing down," she added. "We want to make certain that the Web site stays shut down."

We are not backing down. We want to make sure no one has free speech but us. /NAACP

[dwd1]

The only positive thing about being stuck in traffic in Texas is that the Bluebonnets came out this year...Other than that, doesn't sound like much fun to me...

[Arrowhead1952]

Is this payback for the times that the lines have been redrawn in the past to unseat Republicans" or "Is this the Republicans taking exceptional advantage of the current political situation

The lines drawn by the dems, were so stupid and jagged, no one knew or knows now where the exact lines are located. There is one district running from just west of Austin, all the way to El Paso. Very few follow any natural lines like rivers, IH hiways, etc. Some actually do follow county lines. The biggest problem with this situation, is the fact that the dems cannot bring themselves to realize they are not the majority in Texas any more. They cannot stand the fact that the state voted for Republicans at the rate of 54 - 67% for ALL local, state and national elections the past two election cycles. There are several dem US Senators who would probably get voted out if the Republican drawn districts ever pass the State legislature. I have been on top of this since the state reps went to Ardmore, OK.

[dwd1]

The oppressed become the oppressors....Ironic, but sad... I am concerned about our memory problem...Poll taxes, segregation, 40 acres and a piece of ass...

You would think we would have learned to confront in a more constructive manner... I am not scared of people who have an opposing point of view and express it...I am afraid of people who have an opposing view and hide it....

[Arrowhead1952]

This is the same slut who was at a concert in England and got on the stage and said, "We are ashamed President Bush is from Texas." All I can say is, "I am ashamed she is from Austin, TX." Wish she would disclaim Texas as her home state. She would fit in in SF, CA.

[Arrowhead1952]

The only positive thing about being stuck in traffic in Texas is that the Bluebonnets came out this year

Just had to bring that up. We had a great bluebonnet season this year. Sure changed the past week. 100F each day.

[dwd1]

In my youth, there was a district that went from Muleshoe to Odessa...Never quite understood that one...

I don't think accepting reality is a problem...However, I will say that if the Republicans are perceived as gaining power through underhandedness rather than representing the issues and views of the majority in an aggressive, but fair manner, there may be some backlash. No one has a problem with accepting defeat as long as there is a perception of fairness...

[dwd1]

Oh. her....

I think she needs to understand that saying something against the President can be the wrong thing when there are 200,000 guys serving overseas in a military confrontation....She should have stuck to "I don't support the war, but I support our troops!" Even Pamela Anderson (or is it Lee?) knows enough to do that....

[Arrowhead1952]

The only backlash I am hearing about, is to get well known Republican candidates to run against the dems, and get them out. I am finally finished with my workday. Been here since 6 AM and get off at 2 PM. I'm outa here.